DU Parents: Has This Ever Crossed Your Mind?

[rucky]

Poll question: DU Parents: Has This Ever Crossed Your Mind?

That your child is a form of punishment? It's a horrible thought, but an honest one to have on occasion. Probably more, if you've faced a particularly challenging motherhood.

Okay, me first: I'm a dad. My wife is a great parent, but we've both had those moments. We get over it. We're lucky. I know some young, single moms (in my family) who aren't so lucky. Their relationship with their children is oftentimes strained.

I know the poll results will be all jacked up, but any comments would be appreciated.\

NOTE: I know this is not what Obama meant. Even the worst possible misinterpretation of it doesn't make the statement wrong.

[slackmaster]

1. Yes

Karmic comeuppance for all the crap I put my parents through when I was a kid.

[damntexdem]

2. How could any parent doubt it?

But it was still way-more than worth it.

[Sparkly]

3. No, and I don't think this is at all what Obama meant.

I think he was referring to denying women the freedom of CHOICE when confronted with an UNwanted pregnancy. There are some views that, in effect, punish women for becoming pregnant by denying them choice and forcing them to carry the fetus to term.

I don't think he was calling children themselves punishments.

[rucky]

5. This was more of a tangent...

while everybody was discussing semantics. Even the worst interpretation isn't all that bad.

[ecstatic]

8. That's my take too nt

[Tatiana]

9. What if a woman got pregnant as a result of being raped?

I'd think such a child could be viewed as punishment...

[Sparkly]

15. Right.

That's why even adamant anti-choicers will often approve of allowing women a choice if the pregnancy resulted from rape or incest. It's not about "innocent life" in that case, it's about the guilt/innocence of the woman. So, if she willingly engaged in sex and has an unwanted pregnancy, this view holds that she should be denied choice because of her guilt (as opposed to the rape/incest victim). So the pregnancy is a punishment.

I don't think the child is a punishment. Carrying the pregnancy to term and having the baby (giving birth, that is) is the punishment. I think that's what he meant.

(And, I think rightwingers will want to believe he said children are punishments -- an "anti-family" idea they could run with -- so I think we should clarify that.)

[Tatiana]

26. You've explained this way more succinctly and eloquently than I ever could have.

:toast:

[Nite Owl]

11. These young moms are also

punished because if the have the child they receive no help! Where are these right wingers with child care and continuing ed for the moms? They are punished forever if they choose to have the baby.

[Orsino]

18. Yes. The MSM pinheadswill quote this out of context as often as they can...

...ignoring, as they did with Wright, the harsh realities which Obama is acknowledging. A young, single woman, denied any coherent sex education--or much of any other sort of education--saddled with a pregnancy , must feel punished at times. We know that what the haters hate is sex without consequences, or extramarital sex without punishment. Their answer is always, "You should have thought of that before you got pregnant," when modern American society conspires to keep her from thinking about it.

[rucky]

20. Yep. Double bind.

The values voters are masters of the double bind.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I think that this may be the case

But perhaps your parents are a form of punishment as well--though I'd say rather a way of paying off karmic debt. My own childhood was so traumatic I decided at a very early age never to have children. I have never regretted that decision. I have reconciled with my mother, and, all in all, feel that all that has happened to me was for a reason--the bad was as important as the good. So a punishment? Or a needed lesson? Who knows?

[no_hypocrisy]

6. I'm pretty sure my parents thought it individually and collectively.

But I'm also sure it was them, not my siblings and me. They had kids because they were expected to, but once reality hit, it wasn't that great for them.

[Bonobo]

7. Would have been if I had had one when I was 17.

But now I have 3.

It's all about timing.

[jgraz]

10. I've often thought other people's kids were sent to punish me

:hide:

[rucky]

13. They are. n/t

[jgraz]

19. I knew it!!

[Megahurtz]

35. No Shit!

n/t!

[cali]

12. Never. Not for a single moment.

I had my son when I was 31. I had an abortion in my teens. I don't regret either choice, and not for one second, not even in bad moments did I think of my son as a punishment.

[ShortnFiery]

14. I have two "typical" teenagers. Ergo, Ladies and Gentleman, I rest my case.

I decided to step out of the shadows to empathize that TEENAGERS, in particular, are er ... *difficult* ... many times I reflect on how this is the pay-back for how argumentative and, in general, CONTRARIAN, (pain in the a** galore) I behaved as a teenager. :evilgrin:

BTW Obama was primarily addressing Birth Control. However, we should know by now that none of the attacks (HRC or Republican) consider "the context" of his remarks.

[GodlessBiker]

17. My sympathies. Hang in there.

[ShortnFiery]

34. Thanks. It's a tough balance but worth it.

I was raised by right wing libertarian parents. Basic Goldwater-type conservatives, i.e., Nixon was too liberal. In order to act out in my teens, I would date some of the most gawd awful men. Some criminals and others who lived "in the margins." I did this PRIMARILY to punish my parents. :blush:

Who knows what will happen NOW since my husband and I are much less authoritarian but still labeled as too "par-en-tal" and "annoying."

Thanks again for the encouragement. :hi:

[rucky]

21. I think God makes teenagers act that way...

so when they go off to college, parents are too relieved to notice how broke they are.

[sybylla]

37. LOL! With two young men in college in my house, I know exactly what you mean

The teenage years are about getting you to not only except the fact that they will some day move out of your "nest" but to, on occasion, yearn for that day.

[AspenRose]

16. Does my 3 year old exasperate me?

Absolutely.

Does my 6 month old tire me out?

Absolutely.

Do I think of either of them as a form of punishment?

Absolutely not. They are a gift I willingly wanted and got. The good, the bad and the ugly.

Just because they are sometimes challenging doesn't make them any less wanted, or that they can teach me any less because I'm exasperated with them.

[ShortnFiery]

24. Check back when they hit their teens?

:evilgrin:

My parents never gave up on me but I gave them PLENTY to worry about. Now, I'm a parent. When your children hit their teens, IMO, one has to learn to have FAITH in a higher power and "let go" a little (after educating them) let them learn, i.e., you can't tell them anything.

It's damn punishing at times to let them fall and later pick up the pieces. But parenting is an commitment that's healthy when sealed with unconditional love.

[AspenRose]

29. Oh, I can't wait *eyes*

I'm 12 years older than my brother. So I've sort of seen a 'sneak preview' from afar, so to speak, since I wasn't living at home at the time. ;-)

PS-you share wise words :-)

[msallied]

22. In the eyes of a socially conservative government

that would put restrictions on a woman's reproductive rights, babies ARE treated as punishment. A punishment for not keeping your legs closed. A punishment for not waiting until you were married in the eyes of God. A punishment for acting against "God's Will." Oh they don't say the word "punishment." They use softer words and euphemisms like "responsibility," but it all boils down to the same thing and anyone who is truly pro-choice knows it because we've been fighting this mindset for years. It's only NOW, that a Clinton advocate sees a chance to take a cheap political potshot at her fellow Democrat, that we see liberals having a problem with this phraseology.

And I have to say, anyone who does have a problem with this is a fucking hypocrite. You've sold the soul of the values that made you just as liberal as the rest of us for the benefit of ONE PERSON--a losing candidate who has also sold her soul. How sickening.

[rucky]

27. Well said!

this needs to be its own thread.

[Erin Elizabeth]

23. A punishment?

No. There were times when she was younger that I wished maybe I had waited until I was older to have a child (I was 24 when she was born and missed my freedom sorely in those first couple of years).

But a punishment? Far from it. I really doubt my husband has ever felt that way, either, as he was more ready to be a parent than I was, even.

[EmilyAnne]

25. This is a weird poll. Being forced to have a child against one's will would be punishment. That is

what Obama meant. What is it a punishment for? Being young and having unprotected sex.

[here_is_to_hope]

28. My offspring? A punishment?

ahhh...got to be honest...sometimes!

[rucky]

32. Jasmine, eh?

They all have their favorite princesses.

Mine's a Cinderella. This week, at least.

[here_is_to_hope]

40. Belly dancer, she turned pro at 4...

Her mom is a belly dance teacher so...she also plays mandolin, guitar and piano!
And yes, thinks she is a princess...
But that makes us King and Queen...:hi:

We are lucky in that we can get punished parent almost full time at this point and it really shows.

(edited for spelling)

[Arkansas Granny]

30. This is not what Obama meant. However, if you were forced into giving birth

because reproductive rights for women had been taken away I can see where a woman might feel that she was being punished by becoming a parent against her will.

[bunnies]

31. I'm not a parent so I didnt vote but...

I have a friend who feels that way about a child he had while cheating on his wife. He has never seen the child in person, but has payed child support for 18 years. His last payment was last week. And I can say with certainty that he views this child as punishment.

And yes, he has other children. Two with his wife. And hes a good Dad to them.

[Megahurtz]

33. I think you totally BOUGHT INTO

elixer's Spin Post. No offense, but if you cannot get pregnant yourself I don't think you quite got it about what Obama said.
If a young unmarried woman or any woman accidentally gets pregnant and cannot have the child for whatever reason, she should not be punished by being forced to give birth,
which is what the ReThugs want. Women as Breeding Cattle.

Do not buy into ReThug-style spin!

People need to stop taking this personal! This is not about you and your own frickin' cutsie little kids. :sarcasm: (I'm not only talking to you rucky, but others as well)
People are being selfish and thinking of themselves and their own families here. If you are not in the situation I described above It's not about you! :rant:

Holy shit I am a mother and even I can see that!

I did not vote in the poll because it does not apply to what Obama said.

I suggest letting this subject sink if I were you because it's too subject to Right-Wing Spin.

[rucky]

36. Didn't buy it.

but decided to run with it, anyways.

[Georgie_92]

38. No, not ever.

and that is not how Obama meant it anyway.

[DearAbby]

39. The Mother's Curse

I am sure we all heard it...mothers everywhere are aware of it and all use it.


"When you grow up, I hope you have children who are just like you!"



In my case, it worked. Most times I view them as a blessing, but there are moments they are definitely a punishment via the curse my Mother placed on me...:crazy: