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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:41 AM
Original message
HillHaters circulating pro-Obama lies about BO's voting record
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/413/
"Barack Obama has written and co-sponsored more bills in three years than Hillary Clinton has in seven."
Chain e-mail on Wednesday, February 20th, 2008 in a chain e-mail

Distorted and unfair comparison

Fighting perceptions that their candidate has a thin legislative record, supporters of Sen. Barack Obama say he has written and co-sponsored more bills in three years in the Senate than Democratic opponent Sen. Hillary Clinton has in her seven years.

A chain e-mail widely reproduced on Web blogs says Obama authored 890 bills and co-sponsored nearly 1,100 more, and contrasts that output with the record of Clinton, noting she got 20 mostly inconsequential bills passed during her first seven years in the chamber. The numbers use data retrieved on the Library of Congress’ legislative search engine, Thomas (named for Thomas Jefferson and found here.)

“An impressive record for someone who supposedly has no record, according to some who would prefer this comparison not be made public,” the e-mail reads, concluding, “He’s not just a talker. He’s a doer.”

But while you can obtain those search results with the right query, the e-mail is misleading for several reasons.

First, it compares apples to oranges by contrasting every bill and amendment to a bill that Obama sponsored or co-sponsored, regardless of whether each advanced or languished, to those measures Clinton sponsored or co-sponsored that were signed into law. That guarantees a low count for Clinton, because Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the White House for most of her seven years in the Senate. The e-mail does not reveal how many of Obama’s legislative attempts never got considered.

Plus, including amendments in Obama's total but not in Clinton's total unfairly distorts the difference even more. Technically, amendments aren't really "bills," as the e-mail calls them. But more to the point, amendments, in which lawmakers seek to change some narrow part of legislation, can be the best way for members of a minority party to play a role in the legislative process.

And then there's this: Experts say it’s misleading to use the number of bills a lawmaker sponsors to gauge his or her ability to get things done, anyway. Most of the thousands of measures that senators and representatives introduce each year never get acted on, fond as politicians may be of talking about them. The number of bills they co-sponsor is even more insignificant, because in many of those cases the lawmakers are piggybacking the efforts of a like-minded colleague who did most of the legwork.

“Introducing bills is a relatively cost-free activity because it doesn’t involve much time or political capital,” said Sarah Binder, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution. “If you think about political capital and how it’s used, you need some way of measuring whether this or that senator made a difference and influenced an outcome.”

A side-by-side tally of Clinton’s and Obama’s legislative output on Thomas shows Clinton has sponsored 635 bills and co-sponsored 2,441 more since she was elected in 2000, 54 of which became law. Obama has sponsored 272 and co-sponsored another 834 since he was elected in 2004, 16 of which became law.

So in an apples-to-apples comparison of bills written and co-sponsored, it's Clinton: 3,076; Obama: 1,106. Not quite the conclusion the e-mail sought to reach.

We don't need to rule on whether counting pieces of legislation is a legitimate way of measuring the effectiveness of lawmakers, though experts make clear that it's not. For us, it's enough to look at the facts in the e-mail, the actual numbers being used to make the comparison, and when we look we find manipulation and mistakes. We find a clear False.


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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. all`s fair in love and war......
never open a chain email or get spam blocker
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. What?....did he claim to vote while under sniper fire?
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
3. Obama loves GOP foreign policy and political tactics
methinks he's in the wrong party.

This shouldn't come as a surprise.

1. There are many African Americans who are Republicans

2. Its not unusual, especially in an area like Chicago, for candidates who put personal ambition ahead of political beliefs, to run under a party's ticket that they don't believe in. Dino's.

Obama wants to get elected more than he wants to acknowledge his conservative leanings and support for the GOP.

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. He's in the right party..
..the Obamacrat party of his own creation.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #26
36. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. Meanwhile, Hillary herself just flat out lies.
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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. 3 different news accounts indicated that her Bosnia trip was dangerous
CNN, 3/25/99: “At a second outpost, Camp Bedrock, Mrs. Clinton visited a M.A.S.H. unit, the only full-service U.S. Army hospital in Bosnia. The three-hour tour of the frontlines of the international peacekeeping mission were filled with the gritty reality of a military operation, a far cry from traditional first lady photo opportunities, and Mrs. Clinton seemed more than comfortable with that.”

A day later, the Charleston Gazette reported that "Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday...This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone..."

“Hillary’s trip to Bosnia marked the first time since Eleanor Roosevelt that a first lady traveled to a potential combat zone. Accompanied by singer-songwriter Sheryl Crow and comedian Sinbad, Mrs. Clinton traveled to this northwestern Bosnian town on a morale-boosting tour for the 18,500 U.S. troops participating in the NATO-led peacemaking operation. She heard a poem of peace from a Bosnian girl and praised U.S. troops for 'showing what American leadership is.'…This trip to Bosnia marks the first time since Roosevelt that a first lady has voyaged to a potential combat zone. During World War II, Roosevelt toured the devastated streets of London and the southwestern Pacific, bringing cheer to U.S. troops.”
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And yet the actual VIDEO tells a different story of her getting off the plane.
She lied.

Cope.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. What was BO doing in 96? Hangin' on the stoop with Tony?
She's been to 80 countries on diplomatic trips.
BO hasn't even been to Canada.
Cope with that!
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Teaching law at UC?
On the other hand, your are correct in that he was not going on government junkets with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:32 AM
Response to Reply #6
50. You obviously have not seen the CBS news story that aired at the time
Edited on Mon Mar-31-08 08:33 AM by Evergreen Emerald
There is sniper fire in the background as the reporter tells of Clinton--the first woman president to visit the front lines for decades.

She lied no more than Obama has...but his "misspeaks" are forgiven by those who blow up anything Clinton says or does, dissect, distort, and then shout in faux outrage.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
19. So she put her daughter in harm's way?
She took Chelsea to Bosnia knowing that they were likely to get shot at? What sort of mother does that?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. He took his girls to hear a racist every Sunday for years?
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 10:45 AM by MethuenProgressive
And "never heard anything"?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. You appear to be trying to change the subject.
Answer my question and I'll answer yours. Mrs. Clinton took her daughter to Bosnia knowing that she would be putting her in harm's way?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. You appear fearful to address the OP, and desperately try to change the subject.
It's tradition with you.
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
44. I heard that Sinbad wet his parachute pants he was so scared
and that 8 year old girl was the scariest!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. After voting present over 100X Obama needs to fill in the blanks like he's done something..no?
Let's give him a pass on that. Afterall, it's his experience (pandering to Republican values) that will get him elected.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Jeez...are you still trotting out that silliness. That accounts for 1% of all his votes.
You Hillbots need to get some new material. Maybe you can get Tanya Tucker to write you some?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. It's always silly when it's your candidate..just more material for SNL...
Obama's BS is such, you just couldn't make this stuff up!

:rofl:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. He only voted Present when it was a tough vote that might impact his "image"
Coward.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I chuckle when I see knuckledraggers who can't understand how "Present" votes work in Illinois
OK. Here it is.

An Illinois state senator has a bill. Let's say it's called the "Books For Kids" bill that would fund books for kids in public schools.

The bill gets introduced.

A GOP theocrat adds an amendment to the bill that the only book that would be allowed is the Bible.

The vote comes up. Should the Illinois state senator who wrote the "Books For Kids" bill, now with the poison bill of the Bible as the only book allowed vote:

- Vote For the bill and completely lose what the purpose of the bill

- Vote Against the bill and lose all the effort and time to legislate the bill and watch the bill die a slow death

-Vote Present so the bill can lop off the stupid amendment and have the vote taken again

What would you do? :shrug:

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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You need to watch this video, to understand how you've been bamboozeled by BO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuB_W8o_UsU

There's still Hope you'll snap out of your trance.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. That has fuck all to do with voting present in the IL Lege.
You people are getting increasingly desperate.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. "You people"? What "people"? "Typical white people"?
Cuz I'm not "white".
You've been bamboozled.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. No, I'm talking about morons. nt
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. You've finally learned to spell 'morons' without an 'a'! Congrats!
:rofl:
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skater314159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. You are ignorant of humour too?
:eyes:

There's a shocker.
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kmsarvis Donating Member (312 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. LOL
TYPICAL SORE LOSER!!!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
41. Wow. Give a 12-year old an iMac and iMovie and see what they can patch together
I'd give the kid a C.

Nothing about the Present vote, but thanks for playing!

Yeesh...

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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. hmmm C 54 laws vs O 16 laws....Clinton WINS!
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Clinton: 3,076; Obama: 1,106 - But the DUbamas will keep posting the lie to DU.
Silly DUbamas.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. they're avioding this tread like the plague....they like their iggy circle jerking
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
30. They're avoiding the OP completely - fearful of knowing their lie has been debunked.
The Truth Hurts.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. OP, thanks for posting, good to know
Typical of a campaign that will do anything to win.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. Smear emails coming out of the Obama Campaign are nothing new.
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 10:13 AM by MethuenProgressive
They've been at it from the start.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. great post!
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 09:34 AM by indimuse
'Fact' doest matter to most Obama fans.k&r
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
25. It's got the DUbamas upset - they can't even address the OP
All they can do is desperately try to bring up other issues.
It must really suck to have the delusions about Him shattered day after day.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #25
34. Oh, But the worst is yet to come I believe...
a smidgen of of the RW and MSM has them outraged..ha....Everyday new details about his relationship with Rezko and Wright surface, only to be ignored by his supporter...they don't see past their noses..He will go down fast once all is revealed..he can't survive it.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
29. in the words of Hillary, "ya know...." you never told us how you feel about Richardson's
endorsement. How did you feel??????
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #29
33. It's my Richardson stalker!
Richardson's no Judas. Richardson's price was much higher.
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. speaking of price..
I wonder how much Obama and his wife owe Rezko _ Rezmar..aka...aka...aka...???
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #33
39. =-o, so youre saying Richardson sold himself to Obama?
youve abandoned Richardson and think he sold himself out? sad.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. Rented, is more like it.
Richardson is twenty times the politician BO is - BO probably thinks Bill endorsed him because he like him.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. so you're basically calling Richardson a liar?Because that's what he said.
Edited on Sun Mar-30-08 12:48 PM by loveangelc
why did richardson endorse obama then? and if he's such a better politician, why isn't he soon to becoming the nominee and odds-on favorite to be the next president?

Rasmussen Markets data now give Obama a 79.5 % chance to win the Democratic nomination while expectations for a Clinton victory are at 19.6 %. Market data also suggests that Obama has a 47.5 % chance to become the next President. Expectations for McCain to become President are at 39.7 % while Clinton’s prospects are at 11.6 %.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
37. Did you notice not a single HillHater responding addressed the OP?
Figures.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. :crickets:
:rofl:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. :kicking the crickets:
Still no response from Obama followers to the OP.
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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
38. K&R -- for the Obama folk
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Taxmyth Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-30-08 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
46. Seen that email
and filed it where it belonged.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
48. We need to keep focusing on what's important.
When it comes right down to it, it's not which campaign can send out emails that parse words better. It's about who in this day and time is better equipped to bring the American people together and move this country forward.

It's not up to every Obama supporter to defend each and every word uttered by any other Obama supporter. And for that matter a similar burden should not be placed upon Clinton supporters. But to blithely throw around the word "hate" in a general description of Obama supporters is not conducive to a productive discussion of the issues.

And to be fair, I do not paint all Clinton supporters with a broad brush and hold them responsible for the words of a very small group of pro Clinton posters at DU who seem more interested in disrupting than in bringing us together as a party for the general election.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
51. Chain e-mail? What does this have to do with Obama? Chain e-mail claims Obama is a muslim.
Reminder, Hillary lied repeatedly about everything from NAFTA to sniper fire.

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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
52. How else can you explain just one year in the senate and running for president at the same time
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-31-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #52
53. His Fairy Tale is self authored, full of lie after lie.
And the sheep keep following the Judas Goat...

Save the Sheep!
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