"Something" I've noticed from some of the Obama-dislikers

[Mooney]

I keep reading in a lot of posts that we must choose Hillary Clinton as our nominee at all costs, because... "something" is going to happen with Obama. Nothing concrete, no actual accusations, just suggestions that some vague "something" lurks on the horizon that will render Obama unelectable. They never say what it is, just refer over and over again to some vague "something," some rough beast that slouches towards Bethlehem.

I think that the "strategy" here is just to raise doubt and doubt alone, and there isn't really anything to back it up. It's just a vague and empty threat. I think that they have nothing on Obama, or at least they don't have much to write home about. So far, the worst thing that's come up about him is that he goes to a church. He took a hit for this, but it didn't torpedo his candidacy like his detractors had predicted, so it's become necessary to shroud his candidacy in vague doubts and fears about... "something."

Has anyone else noticed this? And do you find it as transparent and intellectually lazy as I do?

[SoonerPride]

1. Politics of fear.

They are Bush-lite.

[caledesi]

4. Not this time! NT

[ClassWarrior]

8. Not this time!!

NGU.

[Rubiconski2009]

21. Mine eyes have seen the beauty

Mine eyes have seen the beauty Of a planet's changing face
With peace among the nations And all creatures have a place
Where your worth is not determined By religion or by race
I know the time has come
Where democracy is paramount And all our voices heard
Everyone participates When every soul is stirred
When you're judged alone by value Of your action and your word
I know the time has come
Let the change be guided through you
Take the power given to you
Rise to action now that you do Know the time has come
Know the time has come

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t81PX8m3Mx8

:hi:

[Yes We Did]

39. I'm still waiting for Karl Rove to join her campaign.

[Melinda]

2. Can you please provide a link(s) to some of those posts? Seriously- links please.

I know it may be a pita, but you need to substantiate this stuff now. Links, please.

[Mooney]

5. Sure, give me a few minutes...

They're always individual posts in threads, not threads themselves, so this will take a little sleuthing.

[SoonerPride]

9. I just put one on ignore that was a thread Obama being exposed by "something worse than Wright"

leftofcool posted it.

That was it.

ignored list

[Kittycat]

13. I did the same thing, for the same post.

Great minds recognize BS well :)

[sniffa]

26. I didn't see the thread

for a reason. :D

[yardwork]

7. I'll back up the OP. I don't have links, but I've seen the same kinds of posts.

There's no point in singling out any particular posters or posts. The fact is that we will see these kinds of posts. I've seen them used against Hillary as well.

The overall point is that we need to be aware of those stirring up fear, uncertainty, and doubt and look past the fear tactics.

[Melinda]

46. It's not that I didn't believe the OP, but rather I thought he suggested actual threats...

had been made against Obama by users on DU. I think that's aparent by the *tone* of my initial post.

After reading each of the links he provided, I now see that there were no actual threats to Obama's safety, but rather the same people tossing the same non-safety crap.

And that's all. I so appreciate that you backed him up tho... we can all use some backup from time to time. :hi:

[yardwork]

61. Oh, I misunderstood your post. I didn't think that the OP meant threats against Obama.

I thought that the OP meant veiled threats about "something bad" in Obama's history that would make him unelectable.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Sorry for laughing, but...

I've posted this type of message before. And, of course, as soon as I provided links, the same people turned around and reported me for "calling out other DUers" by linking to their posts.

I'm not saying you're being duplicitous, but "YOU NEED TO SUBSTANTIATE THIS STUFF" is a no-win game.

[Umbram]

25. Yep, the "links please" game is a joke when it's for posts on DU

You'll get alerted and the person asking for the link will never respond once you have.

[Melinda]

42. Sorry, but in my almost 8 years on DU, I've learned differently

But thanks for the input. ;)

[Umbram]

63. Well, in my almost 5 years on DU, I've learned not to tout how long I've been at DU. (nt)

[Melinda]

67. Condescension is unattractive, and generally leads to refuttal.

And your response, as it did with your initial patronizing attampt to 'educate' me, rings hollow, hence my personal disdain.

But you got that to begin with, didn't you. Why yes, you did.

/Smarmy off

[Melinda]

40. I suggest your read my response to the OP and then take some deep breaths.

You're seeing goblins where none exist.

As I told the OP, I thought he was suggesting there were personal threats to Obama being expressed on DU, which is why I asked to see the threads.

AFter reading through the links he provided, I then learned that what I perceived as possible personal threats, were in fact no such thing.

I read, and became somewhat alarmed. I asked, he provided, and now I'm cool. Simple request, completely reasonable, and most certainly no game.

[Occam Bandage]

52. Goblins? Like I said, "I'm not saying you're being duplicitous."

I've just learned that "provide links to other DUers' posts" is usually a no-win game.

[Mooney]

18. Here's a couple...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5281229&mesg_id=5281229

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5281229#5281381

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5281783#5281847

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5279485#5279514

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5279485#5279924

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5279485#5279783

I'll post more as I come across them.

[scheming daemons]

22. Wow...good sleuthing... at least we now know what the latest blast fax from camp Hillary said.....

...

[Mooney]

30. Here's another one.

Hot off the presses!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5282051#5282239

[sniffa]

34. You are ignoring the author of this thread

[Mooney]

38. The author of that thread is not engaging in the tactic that I describe. n/t

[Melinda]

35. Okay, I've the gist now after reading all the links; I thought there was some implied *threat*

(maybe even overt) going around DU which is why I asked for links.

All I see are the usual suspect salivating over some new Wright statement(s) they are hoping can be used against Obama.

The guilt by assosciation thing can only go so far.

No need to provide more links, but thanks for taking the time to find these for me; I do appreciate your effort and time. :hi:

[Mooney]

43. No problem.

There's no concrete threat, no, but that's the idea. They're using the Wright issue as a jumping-off point to suggest dire tidings and foment doubt. You might call it amateur psy-ops.

[Melinda]

47. Yeah, that's what I took from those posts too... finally. :-)

Thanks again. :hi:

[Abacus]

41. 5 of 6, not bad

"You are ignoring the author of this thread"

[whatchamacallit]

71. Here's an exchange I had in one such post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5280035&mesg_id=5280272

[yardwork]

3. FUD. Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.

The Republicans will tear at whomever we nominate. If they can't find dirt, they'll make it up, just like they did to John Kerry and Al Gore. The corporate-owned media will go along.

No Democrat is "immune." We can't run scared.

[40ozDonkey]

12. Sorry I couldn't resist.

[yardwork]

62. One of my favorite Farside cartoons! LOL!

[Independent-Voter]

27. Indeed. HRC's base of old, low-educated white folks fall for this shit all the time though

Not the sharpest knives in the drawer by many metrics.

[Eurobabe]

6. PAge from KKKarl Rove: Terra, Fear, more Terra, Terra, Duct Tape

PLastic Wrap. Nook-ya-lear weapons. Al-CIADA!!

[Lucky 13]

10. He's a black man... there must be something ugly in his closet.

:sarcasm:

They REEK of desperation.

[bellasgrams]

14. That is really low. No wonder Clinton supporters won't

support BO in the GE.

[dchill]

29. Because he's black?

This WAS introduced to the campaign by Bill Clinton, you know. And repeated. How low is that?

[bellasgrams]

68. It was not introduced by Clinton. BO knew he could not win if

he couldn't get the black vote. So he used the oldest trick in the book. And they fell for it. I'm not the only one that feels this way:

March 26, 2008 at 06:53:48

The Obama Campaign's Strategic Blunder – They Made it Personal

by Angie Pratt Page 1 of 1 page(s)

http://www.opednews.com


When the Obama campaign made its claim of racism against Hillary after theNew Hampshire primary they made a booboo. A big one. Prior to that Clinton's supporters were open to entertaining a vote for Obama. Maybe he'd be OK.

The evening of Hillary's win in New Hampshire the claim came out that Hillary had somehow cheated. Somehow she had gotten white folks to vote for her because she was white and Obama was black. That claim was used to explain away Obama's defeat and set the stage for getting out the black vote in South Carolina.


The media jumped on it. It explained how they could have been so wrong. Chris Mathews and Keith Olbermann actually had to tone down their anti-Hillary rhetoric for a week or so. So this lie got repeated over and over again.

The result was the black community united behind Obama in South Carolina. Instead of getting at least 40% to 50% of the black vote that she probably would have gotten, Hillary got only 22%.

It worked. Obama had a winning strategy. If he could consistently get 80% to 90% of the black vote he'd be set.
Well … if it worked once … try it again. So the Obama camp called the Clintons racists again and again and again – at every opportunity.

The national media loved it. It fit with the stereotype that many wanted to tag Hillary with anyway – that's she'd do anything to win – including playing the race card. What black would vote for her if she'd stoop so low. Just goes to show that white folks can't be trusted.

All Hillary could say was “no I didn't.” As the Obama campaign knew/knows full well, disproving the negative is virtually impossible.

The problem with this approach and the strategic blunder for the Obama Campaign is that in the process of calling the Clintons racists they were also calling Hillary Clinton's supporters racists too. They made it personal.

Emotions boiled over. Blacks were mad because Obama was victimized by “mean ole Clinton.” Clinton's supporters were mad because they were being called racists too – most of whom had spent their lives trying to make themselves and this country colorblind.

Then the Rev. Wright revelation came out. In their tone deafness, Obama supporters tried to brush the issue aside by saying Rev. Wright was ACTUALLY typical – he wasn't an extreme example of black preachers.

"You mean it isn't just a few blacks who think that way?" asked whites to themselves and their friends. In so doing, Obama supporters inadvertently confirmed what had been whispered about in the white community for a long time – blacks are racists too.

Then the Obama folks made one more mistake. They went ahead and directly personalized the issue. In so many words they said, “if you can't understand, appreciate the context of Rev. Wright i.e., black liberation theology, then YOU (not just Hillary) are a racist.”

The response to that verbalized accusation by non-Obama supporters is/was perfectly predictable – “if you're going to call me one, I'm going to call you one.”

Nana nana boo boo!

Now many Hillary's supporters aren't going to vote for Obama if he wins the nomination. Remember those fabled moderates and independents that Obama said he'd be able to win? They aren't going to vote for him either. They got lumped together with the Hillary supporters and labeled racists too.

So much for being a uniter.

The Obama Campaign should have never played the race card. The consequences will reverberate well past the election.

[dchill]

69. This article is long on bias...

and short on facts, but I think you know that. Who the hell is Angie Pratt? A real dufus blogger, from all I can tell. Again, I say, the Clintons introduced the race card, and are still playing it.

[Zodiak]

72. That was an opinion piece

With very few facts and a lot of innuendo...the writings of a shill. It is the equivalent of putting someone's DU rant up as evidence to back another rant.

Pratt.....the name seems appropriate.

[stillcool]

74. An opinion piece does not

.......replace the facts........

December 10, 2007
Third Clinton Volunteer Knew Of Smear E-Mail
A third volunteer for Hillary Clinton's campaign was aware of a propaganda e-mail alleging that Barack Obama is a Muslim who plans on "destroying the U.S. from the inside out. "Let us all remain alert concerning Obama's expected presidential Candidacy," the email reads. "Please forward to everyone you know. The Muslims have said they Plan on destroying the U.S. from the inside out, what better way to start than at The highest level."

Two Clinton volunteers, Linda Olson and Judy Rose, have already been asked to resign from the campaign for their roles in forwarding the e-mail. The AP reported yesterday that Olson, a volunteer coordinator in Iowa County, sent a version of the e-mail to 11 people, including Ben Young, a regional field director for Chris Dodd's campaign. Young passed it on to the AP.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2007/12/third_clinton_v.html

Kerrey Apologizes to Obama Over Remark
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4031436
Kerrey's mention of Obama's middle name and his Muslim roots raised eyebrows because they are also used as part of a smear campaign on the Internet that falsely suggests Obama is a Muslim who wants to bring jihad to the United States.
Obama is a Christian.
The Clinton campaign has already fired two volunteer county coordinators in Iowa for forwarding hoax e-mails with the debunked claim. Last week, a national Clinton campaign co-chairman resigned for raising questions about whether Obama's teenage drug use could be used against him, so Kerrey's comments raised questions about whether the Clinton campaign might be using another high-profile surrogate to smear Obama.

Hillary: Sorry for Any Offense Campaign (Bill) Has Caused
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB65wJ6Rcfs

Bill Clinton Asks for a Second Chance
By Liz Halloran
Posted February 11, 2008
The morning after his wife, Hillary, was routed in three state contests by Sen. Barack Obama in their dead-heat battle for the Democratic nomination, former President Bill Clinton made his case for her before a packed Sunday service at one of the largest black churches in Washington, D.C.
But first he offered an apology of sorts for racially tinged comments he made about Obama and his candidacy that have triggered a backlash in the black community and among many other Democrats.

Clinton invoked his "worship of a God of second chances" in pronouncing himself glad to be at the Temple of Praise, which claims nearly 15,000 members. His invocation of second chances echoed comments he made early last week at black churches in California, where he campaigned for his wife before that state's
Super Tuesday primary, which she won.
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-

2008/2008/02/11/bill-clinton-asks-for-a-second-chance.html

Source: Newsday
Posted on Sunday, December 16, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Barack Obama Accepts Apology From Hillary Clinton
Washington D.C. 12/15/2007 09:17 AM GMT (FINDITT)

Hillary Clinton went straight to Barack Obama with an apology following a staffer's remarks about any skeletons that may be lurking in Obama's closet, pointing out that she had accepted the staffer's resignation over the disparaging remarks. Obama accepted her at her word, according to his campaign staff, and is moving on without letting it interrupt his campaign plans.


Obama is currently leading the polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the two early primary states often considered key to the process, according to numbers at usaelectionpolls.com, but on a national level Clinton still holds a huge lead. The most recently posted poll results show Obama with 31 percent of the
probable voters in New Hampshire backing him with 29 percent showing support for Clinton.
http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=30629&cat=5

Clinton Camp Pushes O-Bomber Links: Ignores
Her Own Radical Ties
By: Justin Rood

ABC News - The Hillary Clinton campaign pushed to reporters today stories about Barack Obama and his ties to former members of a radical domestic terrorist group -- but did not note that as president, Clinton's husband pardoned more than a dozen convicted violent radicals, including a member of the same group
mentioned in the Obama stories."Wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue," mused Clinton spokesman Phil Singer in one e-mail to the media, containing a New York Sun article reporting a $200 contribution from William Ayers, a founding member of the 1970s group Weather Underground, to Obama in 2001.
In a separate e-mail, Singer forwarded an article from the Politico newspaper reporting on a 1995 event at a private home that brought Obama together with Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, another member of the radical group.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4330128&page=1

Bill Clinton To Apologize At LA Black Churches
Once again, Bill Clinton is ready to repent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/02/bill-clinton-to-apologize_n_84573.html
On Sunday the former president is scheduled to visit black churches in South Central Los Angeles, where he's expected to offer a mea culpa to those who "dearly loved him" when he was their president, Rep. Diane Watson (D-Calif.) says. Watson, a member of the Congressional Black Caucus who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), tells us she'll usher the former president to more than half a dozen churches in
her district where she says he needs to "renew his relationship" with congregants who were turned off by his racially tinged comments in the days leading up to and following the South Carolina primary. (Such as when Clinton compared Sen. Barack Obama's landslide victory to Jesse Jackson's wins in 1984 and 1988.)

http://graphics.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/politics/20080112_nevada_lawsuit.pdf
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/17/a-feisty-bill-

clinton-defends-nevada-lawsuit/
CLINTON ALLIES SUPPRESS THE VOTE IN NEVADA...
On Meet the Press on Sunday, Hillary Clinton said her campaign had nothing to do with a lawsuit--written about by Nation Editor Katrina vanden Heuvel--that threatens to prevent thousands of workers from voting in the Nevada caucus on Saturday.
Back in March, the Nevada Democratic Party agreed to set up caucus locations on the Vegas strip for low-income shift workers, many of them members of the state's influential Culinary Union, who commute long distances to work and wouldn't be able to get home in time to caucus. It was an uncontroversial idea until the Culinary Union endorsed Barack Obama and the Nevada State Education Association, whose top officials support Clinton, sued to shut down the caucus sites.
The Clinton camp played dumb until yesterday, when President Clinton came out in favor of the lawsuit.
Clinton's comments drew a heated response from D. Taylor, the head of Nevada's Culinary Union, on MSNBC's Hardball. "He is in support of disenfranchising thousands upon thousands of workers, not even just our members," Taylor said of Clinton. "The teachers union is just being used here. We understand that This is the Clinton campaign. They tried to disenfranchise students in Iowa. Now they're trying to
disenfranchise people here in Nevada, who are union members and people of color and women."
Rank-and-file members of Nevada's teachers union also come out against the lawsuit filed by their leadership. "We never thought our union and Senator Clinton would put politics ahead of what's right for our students, but that's exactly what they're doing," the letter stated. "As teachers, and proudmDemocrats, we hope they will drop this undemocratic lawsuit and help all Nevadans caucus, no matter which candidate they support."
The lawsuit's opponents make a persuasive point. Creating obstacles to voting is what the GOP does to Democrats, not what Democrats should be doing to other Democrats.

Clinton adviser steps down after drug use comments
Earlier Thursday, Clinton personally apologized to rival Obama for Shaheen's remarks.
Obama accepted her apology, according to David Axelrod, the top political strategist for the Obama campaign.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/13/clinton.obama/index.html

January 6, 2008, 5:18 pm
Edwards: No Conscience in Clinton Campaign
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/06/edwards-no-conscience-in-clinton-campaign/
By Julie Bosman
KEENE, N.H. – John Edwards angrily took on Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton at two news conferences in a row on Sunday, saying that her campaign “doesn’t seem to have a conscience.”

COMPTON, Calif. (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and her campaign tried to mend ties to black voters Thursday when a key supporter apologized to her chief rival, Barack Obama, for comments that hinted at Obama's drug use as a teenager. The candidate herself, meanwhile, praised the Rev. Martin Luther King and promised to assist with the rebirth of this troubled, largely black city.

Bob Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, apologized for comments he made at a Clinton campaign rally in South Carolina on Sunday that hinted at Obama's use of drugs as a teenager.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-17-

johnson-apology_N.htm?csp=34

Clinton Surrogate Compares Obama Ad to Nazi March
http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080201/cm_thenation/45278988_1
Fri Feb 1, 2:23 PM ET
The Nation -- On a media conference call organized by the Hillary Clinton campaign today, Clinton surrogate Len Nichols compared an Obama health care ad to Nazis.
----------
Accusing political opponents of Nazism is an outrageous smear. Raising the specter of a Nazi march in response to a health care mailer that evokes the insurance industry is so absurd, it would be hard to take the attack seriously, were it not launched from a high profile national campaign conference call in this crucial stretch of the presidential race. And political observers know, of course, that the Clinton Campaign regularly arranges opportunities for surrogates to launch these kind of smears, which are later followed up with apologies. (See: Bob Johnson, Bill Shaheen, Bob Kerrey, and Francine Torge, to name the most recent offenders.) For his part, Nichols did not immediately return a call requesting further comment.
-------------------------
Len Nichols, Director of New America's Health Policy Program, stated, "For nearly 17 years I have worked tirelessly to reform our nation's struggling health system. Today my passion overwhelmed me. I chose an analogy that was wholly inappropriate. I am deeply sorry for any offense that my unfortunate comments may have caused.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[damonm]

70. maybe a purple sweater from the '80's...:-)

[Saturday]

11. Can I help you?

Let me spell it out for you since you can't figure out what lurks ahead for Obama.
The right wing political machine and the vetting process. You know, the one that destroyed a military hero in the previous election.

[ClassWarrior]

15. You mean the machine that has a whole script about the Clintons in place...

...in the minds of the American people? Yet she's sucking up to them now, nonetheless?

:eyes:

NGU.

[Cheap_Trick]

16. sucking up to Scaife's not going to come back to bite her in the ass

nosiree:eyes:

[Occam Bandage]

19. You mean the same machine that spent the last eight years fine-tuning their campaign against HRC?

[Mooney]

23. You mean the one that will simply make shit up if they can't find anything?

You mean the right wing political machine that will assail our nominee with a tsunami of bullshit every second between now and Election Day? Those guys? The ones who you have to address immediately and forcefully the moment they start in with their bullshit?

I know who you're talking about. I have been paying attention. But the "something" campaign doesn't have anything to do with uncertainty over whether or not Obama can withstand right wing attacks. People here have been only too happy to explicitly express that they think he has a glass jaw and will be a pushover in the GE. The "something" campaign implies that Obama has an as-yet-unnamed scandal awaiting on the horizon that will render him unelectable and lead to a McCain victory. This is why nobody who's pushing this angle actually says what they're talking about.

Did that help you?

[TeamsterDem]

20. It's not just a nebulous reference

They're referring to the "need" to endorse Hillary prior to her destroying him for her own benefit no matter what the costs are to the party and the country.

[DemzRock]

24. Well, I think the worry is that he is so new and unknown... but there are some...

tangible things that we do know about. Rezko, Wright, "present" votes. It's not just nebulous. One wonders if the GOP has more intelligence on him.

But the good thing about this tough primary season is that some of these things are being aired now and are being digested and forgotten. But the GE, maybe people will say, NOT THAT AGAIN! Give me a break!

GOBAMABILLARY!

I love them "both," despite their flaws!

[Mooney]

28. They're not talking about Rezko, Wright, or the "present" votes except

as a jumping-off point for the "something" campaign, as in "The Rezko trial is underway, I wonder what other skeletons Obama has in his closet?"

That type of stuff.

[LWolf]

31. Not me.

I'll be frank; I don't like Obama.

I don't like Hillary, either.

I don't like Obama because he is too centrist/corporatist/3rd way/"new" democrat for me; he can deny the dlc all he likes, but his positions mirror theirs.

I don't like him because he promotes himself by promoting things like "not dlc," "new," "change," and "hope," and I find those to be false.

I don't like him because he is willing to reach out to homophobes; to republicans; he's willing to further blur the separation between church and state while he throws the liberal left under the bus.

I don't like him because he's a hawk making hay out of an old speech that opposed Iraq, but his walk doesn't match his talk.

I don't like him for all of those reasons, and I won't vote for him for all of those reasons.

I don't think he can win the general election. Not because anybody will feel the same as I do. Because he's given the republicans too much ammunition, and his republican support will shift to McCain, while he's already alienated many of his natural allies on the left who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

[Mooney]

36. The difference between you and the people I'm talking about

is that you've articulated actual reasons for why you feel the way you do. You're not suggesting some as-yet-unknown phantom issue lurking in the shadows that will make itself known November 3.

I don't have any problems with people who have concrete reasons and can lay them out the way you have. Not liking Obama is a perfectly valid and reasonable position to hold and I don't begrudge anyone that. What I do have a problem with is simply trying to foment anxiety in voters with vague suggestions in an effort to shake their confidence. I find that intellectually lazy and dishonest, and it's really not much different than simply lying about a candidate to get people not to vote for him/her.

You're just expressing your preference, or lack thereof. That's certainly nothing wrong with that.

[LWolf]

48. I can agree with that.

I have to point out, though, that the Democratic Party has a long tradition of manipulating votes with the politics of fear. It's not new.

The "vote for the really bad, party-damaging democrat or the boogie-man republican will destroy the world" meme is tried and true.

The politics of fear is alive and well.

[Mooney]

55. I wouldn't expect that to ever change.

Politics has always been a demonize-your-opponent game from the get-go. But if you expose it for what it is you can at least undercut it a little.

[woolldog]

49. obama is a hawk?

who blurs the line between church and state? WOW.

[LWolf]

57. "I'm not anti-war."

"I'm anti-dumb war."

Of course, I think all wars are "dumb," to say the least. Unprincipled at best. I also think that repeatedly funding the war he was supposedly against is disingenuous, to say the least.

I also think that wanting to continue the war on terror, and a professed willingness to leave unilateral military action in other nations "on the table" are characteristics of hawks.

I also think that allowing religious leaders to campaign for him, both from the pulpit and on the campaign trail, is an unacceptable blurring of that separation.

So yes. A "hawk" who is willing to blur that separation.

[truth please]

32. What's wrong with the Democrats

John Kerry would not have lost if the Democratic Party would have stuck together. Karl Rove was able to tap into a certain ignorance in our party that stated if you have money you must be evil. The poor people in this party they Kerry would have helped voted against their own best interests just to vote for a guy they felt they could have a beer with, the same guy that had sold them down the river and who would never even think about being around them. The Republican machine argues but continually fall in line in order to keep Democrats out of the White House and we are so stupid to help them. When will we learn that the old divide and conquer rule.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

33. We have nothing to doubt but doubt itself

Funny how much they're using the politics of fear. And I always thought that was a Republican tactic.

[Bonobo]

37. Like a blank check for the imagination!

Draw whatever you want on it!

[Araxen]

44. FEAR FEAR FEAR!!!!!

:scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared::scared:

[Hugabear]

45. Maybe they're listening to Hal Turner

I harbor no illusions, and I would not be surprised whatsoever to see some neo-Nazi type who worships the likes of Hal Turner take matters into their own hands.

[bevoette]

53. does Hannity really have the power to do anything besides holler, though?

;)

[Hugabear]

54. No, but Hal Turner has his own radio show

And plenty of ignorant fucks who would do what he tells them. There was a Hal Turner video posted here on DU yesterday, with him basically saying that he would not tolerate a black president (actually, he used much stronger language, but I won't repeat it here).

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. This is the downside of nominating someone with a limited public history.

There is a risk of surprises. Ask any Gary Hart supporter.

[tabasco]

56. Riiiiight. Only lifetime Washington hacks and former First Ladies need apply.

Give me a fucking break.

Take some time off from posting stupid shit and read some history.

Gary Hart was a Senator for thirteen years before becoming the nominee.

[lumberjack_jeff]

60. No, it's a risk/benefit tradeoff.

Kerry wasn't elected in part because his long Senate history gave his opponents lots of ammo. Obama doesn't have this liability, he has the liability imprinted on the other side of the coin - what we don't know.

Given the fairly bold admissions in Obama's books, it is reasonable to be concerned about what wasn't in there.

I suspect we'll find out, because as mean as Hillary is perceived to be, the RNC machine will be infinitely worse.

[NastyRiffraff]

51. Well, at least you said "some" of the Obama dislikers

Which is a step up from most of those who are whining about anyone disliking (or even hating) St. Barack.

I don't have fears myself, except fears for my country. Whoever inherits this mess is gonna be in a load of shit for at least four years. I dislike Obama quite a bit. I don't trust him at all. There are many reasons, which others have articulated, including his propensity to "reach out" to the very people who have cut off the hands reaching out. The only fear I have regarding Obama as president is that the honeymoon will be very, very short once people realize he's neither Saviour nor Messiah, come to earth to heal all. Some of his supporters, including some in the media, have set him up for a very hard fall by the elevated expectations they have for him...expectations no human can meet. (Yes, kids, Obama IS only human! Really!)

I haven't seen much of outright fear tactics from Obama haters on these boards, but I will tell you I've seen some from Hillary haters. Yes, yes..I know those have to be valid for the simple reason they're anti-Hillary, but just thought I'd point it out anyway :shrug:

[immoderate]

58. Good example of the straw man argument.

--IMM

[Mooney]

59. I always make a point of using the word "some"

It's not everybody. It's not even half. Every group of people that posts here, from supporters of one candidate or another to people who are still on the fence tend to be 90% reasonable people. It's the other 10%, from all groups, that cause all the fucking problems. It's important to keep that in mind.

I told someone else in this thread that I don't have any problems whatsoever with the fact that people have legitimate issues with Obama that preclude them from supporting him. He's a flawed candidate. I've never thought of him as anything more than a politician, and I think it's unfair to characterize Obama supporters as cultists who view him as a messiah. I just haven't observed this phenomenon. I'm sure there are plenty of young voters who he's attracted that display a naivete about what an elected official can do, and they're certainly in for some disappointment if he gets elected. I was 22 when Bill Clinton got elected and I was very disappointed when his election didn't cause the United States to turn into a liberal utopia overnight. But that's just a function of being young, and I have yet to encounter an Obama supporter over the age of 30 who has expectations that are wildly disproportionate to what an elected official can actually accomplish.

As far as the short honeymoon, I'm pretty convinced that whoever gets elected this year will be a one-term president. That goes for Obama, Hillary or McCain. It's not going to be possible to undo the damage Bush has done without raising taxes and I think the situation in Iraq is going to get even worse no matter what we do. These are all Bush's fuckups, but the next president will be blamed for them when he or she doesn't eliminate them with a single pen-stroke on January 20th. If you've ever worked at a business that's running at a loss, they always change the management, and when the new management can't correct the old management's fuckups in short order, that person always gets shitcanned. Unfortunately, the nature of Bush's fuckups is that they're so expansive and so far-reaching that they will probably take decades to even begin to undo. I think we're entering a long period of unpopular, one-term presidents.

[Lilith Velkor]

64. If it weren't for the extreme hype, I wouldn't hate him

I didn't at first, just thought he's not all that, but the hysterics have turned me off completely.

[C_U_L8R]

65. FUD Factor

Fear Uncertainty Doubt
A dusty old tactic... works for a little while...
until the electorate figures out you lied to them
and forever resents you for it.

[crankychatter]

66. Dead on, this simple - they say "racists will sway the vote"

that's ALL they have, fear mongering... they are the ones that keep stirring the race gender shit pot on this list and all over the internet

I think either candidate has risks associated with them from a traditional perspective, by virtue of things that should NOT matter

The fact is, I don't think they DO matter

This is a race about corruption, not RACE or GENDER

That's why Obama can win... he can energize the cynical majority of Americans

[OnionPatch]

73. And a lot of them, not all, but a lot

have really low post counts. Almost seems like they came her just to plant the seeds of doubt. I can guess where their real cyberhome is.