IA State Senators urge Dean to tell the truth

[sandnsea]

Urges Dean to tell Iowans the truth about John Kerry’s Record

December 31, 2003

For Immediate Release
Des Moines, IA –

State Senator Jack Kibbie of Palo Alto County and Jim Schaben, former Minority Leader of the State Senate and family farmer from Harrison County sent the following letter to Howard Dean.



December 31, 2003
Dear Howard Dean,

We found the letter issued by your campaign yesterday to include false information about John Kerry’s record and it attempts to mislead Iowa farmers. Iowans will not stand idly by and let you distort the record of a man who has stood up time and again for family farmers.

I know John Kerry’s record and he has vigorously worked to give family farms a fair shot to compete against large corporations, to remain economically viable and to help them recover for natural disasters and other crises.

Senator Kerry stood with Senator Tom Harkin to fight against the damaging Farm Bill in 1996 and provide farmers with the support they need. Kerry stood with Harkin to stop the corporate control of livestock production by supporting a ban on packer ownership. Kerry stood with Harkin to support country-of-origin labeling and continues to speak out for it. Kerry was a leader in the Senate fighting for—and not against—effective flood relief programs for farmers.

Without any doubt, Senator Kerry understands the real challenges facing rural communities today and has taken action to help farmers deal with these challenges.

The information given to Chris Peterson is false with respect to John Kerry’s record. The people of Iowa should be told the truth and you should correct the record. Before we caucus next month, I hope you change the tenor of your campaign. Iowans deserve straight talk, not mud-slinging.

Sincerely,

State Senator Jack Kibbie
Palo Alto County

Jim Schaben
Harrison County

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1231b.html

[wndycty]

1. Don't you know Kibbie and Schaben work for Rove <sarcasm>

The sad thing is we will hear from a lot of people who know absolutely nothing about Iowa politics (like myself) who will seek to discredit these two without knowing anything about them.

John

[Hep]

2. It would have been more accurate to say

A Couple OF IA legislators.

[Rose Siding]

3. No need for accuracy when you question Dean's accuracy

:silly:

[Hep]

4. Right

If you wre to believe the subject line, you'd think the whole state of Iowa wrote the letter.

Like I'm worried about these two guys!

[wndycty]

5. How is calling them Iowa State Senators inacurate?

The discrediting begins. . .hmmmmmm

[Hep]

7. No discrediting

They're welcome to kiss Kerry's ass however they see fit. It's just funny that when I read the subject line I thought it was something to be concerned about. No worries. As long as these stories come from the Kerry website and not any credible journalist or wire story, I don't have to worry about discrediting it. No one is going to read it anyway.

Keeping the focus on Dean is the best thing you can do for my guy. Thanks!

[wndycty]

Notice no one is addressing the issues raised. . .

. . .they are attacking the Senators and looking to discredit them. . .not a good basis for an argument. LOL

[paulk]

11. haven't we come to expect this?

Dean has lied and misrepresented himself to the point where you can't keep track. It's much easier to attack .

[Hep]

17. Isn't it though?

It's just so funny hearing this kind of stuff from people who spend more time opposing Dean than supporting their guy! Hilarity never dies at DU.

[paulk]

33. has the Dean campaign

copyrighted that response yet?

[Hep]

34. Nah, we're all about sharing

We'd even let YOUR guy use our campaign model. As well as our internet tools. It's open source. But how weak would that look, for your guy to give up his campaign model and adopt the model of the hated opposition. Must be a tough spot for your guy. Rock and a hard place.

[sandnsea]

37. Exactly, can't keep track

I guess it's a strategy. Not one I ever thought a Democrat would use, but it's a strategy!

[Hep]

39. So many strategies we never expected D's to use.

Amazing isn't it? Defending Bush's tax cuts. Defending Bush's war. Amazing stuff. No one would have guessed it.

[Hep]

16. Some people might do that

like they mught attack Krugman, Ivins, or Gore for endorsing Dean. People who do that are idiots. I know I never sought to discredit these two senators. I'm only pointing out how meaningless their letter to Dean is. In the long run. Credible or not, it's a cute little play that won't work! Fine with me. All I know is I come from farmers, and they wouldn't vote for Kerry if you held a gun to their head. Dean's rural policy however...

[wndycty]

19. Please point out where . . .

. . .I have attacked Krugman, Ivins, or Gore? And just so you know disagreement or criticism is not an attack or bashing. . .

[Hep]

24. Please show me where

I claimed you did such things.

[wndycty]

28. Well then I thank you for not including me in you "some people" line

Let the record show I am not some people.

:kick:

[Hep]

31. For whom the shoe fits

You know who you are.

Note: You is not wyndycty, but rather those for whom the shoe fits.

[knight_of_the_star]

23. Proof?

"they wouldn't vote for Kerry if you held a gun to their head. "

Maybe YOU wouldn't. Can you prove that ALL farmers feel that way? A majority? A plurality?

[Hep]

25. I was a bit unclear

My family are farmers. They wouldn't vote for Kerry if you held a gun to their head. My family.

[paulk]

15. the fact that you consider this some kind of legitimate argument

paints you for what you are.

Another ignorant dean apoligist, who can't even be bothered to defend his candidates outright lies.

Keeping the focus on Dean is exactly the best thing - so more people can come to understand just what he stands for - a willingness to say and do anything to get elected.

[Hep]

22. Legitimate argument?

It is the truth. No one is going to read that. That letter won't do a lick of good. We all know it. That you call this an attack makes me wonder who exactly you think I'm attacking!

BTW, what am I? If you're going to make a personal attack, I would hope that you would at least make is clear.

Ahh, there it is, Ignorant Dean apologist. Riiiiiight!

BTW, keeping the attention on Dean hasn't achieved your desired goal. And I have over fifteen million examples of how I'm right.

[dfong63]

56. it's about as accurate as saying "Californians support George W Bush"

... and citing a letter from two Californians.

[Hep]

59. Precisely!

n/t

[blm]

6. They ARE state Senators. How could it be more accurate?

Or is that how you attempt to deflect the point of that Dean's release lied about Kerry by saying that his vote was the same as Bradley's?

[JI7]

8. accurate ?

like the "ONLY" candidate to oppose the war from the start ? how about kucinich , sharpton , and clark ? isn't clark an anti war candidate also ?

[curse10]

12. Ah, the perverbial double standard!

:-)

It's okay to have a misleading headline if you're candidate is the bestest in the world! /sarcasm

[BootinUp]

9. It could be more accurate

If they said we should concede the nomination to Howard Dean like Gore did. /sarcasm

[Hep]

10. I've tried

But have no idea what you are trying to say. NONE.

[BootinUp]

14. smoke from your ears?

It wasn't supposed to be earthshattering. Some of us are not ready to be assimiliated is all. Seems like these two Iowans are feeling the same.

[Hep]

26. That's not it.

They're not resisting assimilation, not that I want to engage in using stupid star trek analogies. They're lobbing snowballs on behalf of Kerry. Could it be more transparent? Could it be more transparent than Kerry's last half dozen attempts to drag Dean down instead of boosting himself up?

[BootinUp]

29. Ok no analogy

They don't want Dean as the nominee. You're right its transparent as hell.

[Hep]

32. Right

Bt the transparency is not in their opposition to Dean, but their support of Kerry.

[TeacherCreature]

46. don't worry, no one wants to assimilate you

go about your merry way.

[mouse7]

13. sandnsea's last thread 2 days ago showed both wrong

The QuadCity paper article that sandnsea originally linked to showed that Kerry had voted against additional flood aid to Iowa Farmers that Harkin had tried to get.

Dean was incorrect on the later vote of Kerry's on a bill which leaned toward corporate agriculture.

So, both Dean and Kerry were wrong here.

But sandnsea convienently did not post this link in this thread which showed that Kerry had been wrong too.

[blm]

30. Dean's release said Kerry voted the same as Bradley

and everyone in Iowa knew that Bradley voted against the bill. You know that release is a lie and yet you try to rationalize it by pointing AWAY from the main vote.

[mouse7]

44. Quad City paper said Dean's statement on Kerry vote was true

QC Paper said Dean's statement refered specifically to the addititional funding Kerry voted against.

Don't like it? Yell at the Quad City paper.

[blm]

50. No they didn't. And the release said Kerry's vote was the same vote

as Bradley when it was NOT.

Dean Campaign = Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them

[mouse7]

54. So the QuadCity paper is lying, huh?

Right.

Everyone lies BUT Kerry.

[blm]

58. The paper didn't say Dean was right.

Dean's release said that Kerry voted the same as Bradley on that bill and everyone knew that Bradley voted no on all of it. So, to say they voted the same because of similar "procedural" votes when Bradley had voted no on the entire bill was a lie.

And if the Dean campaign was LOOKING to be truthful, they would have specified where there was any similarity, but, we all know that wasn't what they were aiming for. They were looking for a way to deceive voters and they used it.

[Raya]

60. Dear DDean Friends: Honesty, Honesty. Dont hide the truth with sly words

[MaggieSwanson]

18. Thank you for posting this.

I hope that Dr Dean is held accountable for ALL his misrepresentations, including those directed at the candidate I support. The public has a right to know the TRUTH about all of the candidates in order to make an informed decision.

[jsw_81]

20. Oh no!

We all know that Jack Kibbie and Jim Schaben have an enormous amount of sway in presidential politics. Dean is toast! :eyes:

[quinnox]

21. Admirable effort, but all I can say

is I wish them good luck, they'll need it.

[Hep]

27. We'll see if they jump all over YOU

for saying essentially the same thing I am.

[madfloridian]

35. Isn't there a rule about sig lines?

Maybe they changed it. Your site really attacks Dean badly. I might have misunderstood the rule.

[maddezmom]

38. what sig line are you referring to?

I'm confused, unless something has been deleted.

[Hep]

41. It was deleted

I suppose either he was asked to remove it by a mod or he just wanted to throw it in there to get a rise and then deleted it to avoid being held responsible for mocking the DU civility rules.

Why would anyone want to just taunt Dean supporters? Moreso, why would anyone want to taunt mods?

[quinnox]

40. No, you are mistaken

The graphic wasn't part of my signature, it was put in my post as it relates to my comment about Dean and honesty.

However, I can see how this mistake could be made, so I removed it for this time.

[Hep]

42. Lord knows

The graphic was posted with civility as the top priority.

[lurk_no_more]

36. Stick a fork in him Mary

” JAFO”

[windansea]

43. hey sandnsea

without even reading the response here...I am sure Kerry's RIGHT AND OBLIGATION TO CORRECT a vicious little smear by the Dean campaign has been totally refuted by changing the subject...doesn't matter cuz Kerry's toast...etc etc etc

as we saw last night...it takes a 300+ thread complete with multiple scans to get ONE Dean supporter to admit trashy campaign techniques

:)

[Nadienne]

45. says a lot for the fervor of Dean supporters, eh?

but it does not say whether they are right to be so fervent.

[Hep]

48. the thing that separates us

We just laugh at the opposition for the most part. Scurrying around like cockroaches looking for dirt, high fiving each others off base criticisms like drunken frat boys. The arguments are right here in this thread. But honestly, what did you expect after almost a year of dozens of daily criticism threads about Dean? At what point are we allowed in your eyes to just sit back and laugh at the Dean opponents vain attempts to slow us down?

[Monte Carlo]

49. I'm not interested in schaudenfraude....

... which is what you are describing. Shameful joy in another's misfortune, and unity based upon exclusion. This has turned me off to Dean's campaign.

[Hep]

51. It's not shadenfreude

Because Dean opponents making constant, daily attacks on Dean and his supporters is not misfortune. It's an active choice they make. I won't come here and gloat if Dean wins the nomination. THAT'S shadenfreude. Laughing off baseless attacks is something else. Turning the other cheek TO THE EXTREME! is more like it.

But if you think that's what our campaign is about, I'm terribly sorry you got that impression. If that's the only thing keeping you from Dean's campaign, you should come to my Meetup on Wednesday.

[Nadienne]

52. fervor

yes, fervor. Dean vs everyone else. "Opposition enflames the enthusiast" (not sure who said that, but it's true.)

I've noticed that the Kucinich (the candidate of my choice) campaign got irritated when the Dean campaign... "I am the only candidate. Woops, I am the only MAJOR candidate". Maybe I'm disinformed, but it seems as though Dean's campaign stepped on Kucinich's campaign and caused Kucinich's campaign to protest about it.

The first debate I saw pitted Dean against Kerry. It caused polarization from the very beginning.

Now, I don't blame Dean necessarily. I blame the media: they are quick to report how Dean steps on the other candidate's toes. Which is bad for the other candidate and bad for Dean because they don't say how Dean is any better.

But fervor just might blind Dean supporters (and the supporters of other candidates) to the root of the problem. 'Course, it wouldn't hurt for all candidates to differentiate themselves in a positive manner.

[TexasPatriot]

53. another thread

where a Dean supporter compares people in other campaigns to cockroaches... you'd think he polled higher than mid 20s.

[Hep]

57. YEah, go fig

If cockroaches wouldn't scurry around so much in their vain efforts to STAY IN THE DARK, we wouldn't need to point out the fact.

[Nadienne]

61. If, as I suspect

the media is at fault for this bitter split among candidates, name calling and taunts only make things worse.

[Hep]

64. In that case

People ought to step to the plate with some valid thoughts for a change.

[TeacherCreature]

47. great, more pissy nit pickers for Kerry

two more mooks join the 1 block parade.

[dfong63]

55. what specifically was the false information supposedly in Dean's letter

these two state senators accuse Dean of lying, but fail to state in concrete terms what was untrue. that omission is a sure sign of partisan spin doctoring.

[sandnsea]

62. Right here

The 1996 farm bill, the current farm bill, and flood relief. That's what the Dean campaign press release was about and it's been posted here, several times it seems like.

"Senator Kerry stood with Senator Tom Harkin to fight against the damaging Farm Bill in 1996 and provide farmers with the support they need. Kerry stood with Harkin to stop the corporate control of livestock production by supporting a ban on packer ownership. Kerry stood with Harkin to support country-of-origin labeling and continues to speak out for it. Kerry was a leader in the Senate fighting for—and not against—effective flood relief programs for farmers."

[Nadienne]

63. An article from the Iowa Pulse

reprinted in the Sioux City Journal on December 31, 2003:

http://www.iowapulse.com/2003/story81.html

Notice that the article does not show that Dean's record is better. Bad for Kerry, bad for Dean. Very subtle.