How does a woman reclaim her femininity ?

[AGirl]

I was watching Obama's charming self in NC, and he seems to have a slight mustache , something I haven't seen before. Richardson grew a beard after he dropped out of the race.


All of this could mean several things, reclaiming of one’s masculinity, the feeling like now that the race is over , there is no need to be a “gentleman” anymore (Richardson not giving a crap and endorsing Obama over Clinton) , in Obama’s case maybe he’s feeling relaxed after the vacation and feeling good about the his nomination. He definitely seems to be as cocky and charming as ever. (Maybe he no longer consider Clinton as relevant, and so he doesn't have to look like a gentleman would when a lady is in presence)


This begs another question, how does Clinton reclaims her femininity? I suggest she tries on a dress, show that she is more human and she can reclaim herself as well.

I believe it is vital for Clinton to reclaim herself, for her own sake and also for her own chance to win the nomination.

Someone mentions having a beard as the symbol for virile masculinity - I agree 100 percent.

[JVS]

1. Wearing a skirt instead of a pantsuit is one way.

[anonymous171]

3. No, the media would go fucking insane.

Although that may give her more exposure...

[JVS]

5. No they won't. It's happened before.

[Window]

17. Hillary has nice legs.

[JVS]

21. but wearing a skirt requires caution while sitting

[Whisp]

57. Bill is eyeballing Tipper in that pic. ugh.

[JVS]

58. You think so? They all look like they've been drinking too. Oh noes!

[MilesColtrane]

116. Al looks stoned.

And, why does Tipper have a "Hillary" pie plate on her dress?

[FlyingSquirrel]

38. In that photo she does... I've seen another circulated that is worse

And possibly photoshopped. She's probably smart to reduce the chances of that.

I think her femininity is perfectly intact, personally. She can change up outfits, accessorize.. change the hairstyle slightly, any number of things.

[Window]

107. Oh. This is the first photo I can remember seeing her legs.

I said that because I've heard someone say she had thick ankles or something to that effect. She looks lovely in that photo.

I think her femininity is perfectly intact, also. Hillary is very graceful.

[Bigleaf]

24. Well, first Hillary has to stop shopping at the same store where Kim Jong-il shops.

http://ts1.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1570310538820&id=e5b733cd3ee5ce14f97a67f23b46c713

[AGirl]

35. Ha!

[blogslut]

2. "Put on a dress"?

That's all it takes?

Wow. Just wow.

[AGirl]

4. Well, image and preception mean alot.

[blogslut]

7. You need to go back to feminist school

You missed some of the lessons.

Put on a dress. Geezus.

[AGirl]

10. I don't go to school to be a feminist, I am a free thinking person. :)

[blogslut]

13. Well, then you need to free your brain from antiquated ideas of "femininity"

Do you have any idea how insulting your little suggestion is?

Put on a dress....astounding.

[niyad]

6. how do you define "femininity"? and when do you suppose Sen. Clinton lost hers?

what a load of codswallop, unless, of course, you forgot the sarcasm icon?

[frogcycle]

9. yeah, what you said!

[AGirl]

11. showing sexuality and gendered behaviour is unpresidential like esp when a lady is in the race

but maybe Obama no longer thinks Hillary is a force of factor , he is now able to disregard her and go back to his male self.

[niyad]

46. what in the HELL are you talking about? showing sexuallity? you just

whined that Sen. Clinton needed to put on a dress.

honestly, do you even understand what you wrote?

[AGirl]

48. I didn't whine, its my suggestion, I don't care if she wouldn't wear a dress.

It doesn't concern me a lot. It's something I think about.

[niyad]

100. you were the one who started this absurd post, with its ridiculous suggestions.

so why would you say now that you don't care? if you don't care, what in the HELL is this thread about? you are doing nothing but mouthing the usual, typical sexist bull about what is "feminine", and not bothering to define what YOU think it is, and why you think Sen. Clinton needs to "reclaim" hers.

quit trying to weasel out when people call you on your sexist, ignorant bs.

[Scout]

109. what niyad said n/t

[frazzled]

8. Oh please.

No one has to reclaim their femininity (or masculinity). Not shaving has nothing to do with masculinity, and wearing a dress has nothing to do with feminity. These are two strong politicians.

Are we really on DU or is this some strange alternate universe lately?

[anamandujano]

12. DU is a strange alternate universe since the Bamabots took over.

[scheming daemons]

19. The OP is a Clinton supporter...

[grantcart]

80. depends on the time of the day

[bunnies]

Im pretty sure the OP is a Clinton supporter.

heh.

[AGirl]

22. I am pretty sure I am a Mike Gravel Supporter.

[bunnies]

25. You know he's a Libertarian now. Right? nt

[blogslut]

31. Gravel has jumped the Democratic party ship

He's a Libertarian now. If you're going to support a Libertarian, you need to find another board.

[LostinVA]

29. They went from HRC to O to HRC (all in a few hours one day)

To O to HRC to O to HRC to O to HRC and now to Gravel. With a bunch of "on the fences" thrown it. Make of that what you will. I know what I make of it.

As much as I hate to say it: LET IT SINK!

[AGirl]

33. Let it sink so all the wonderful topics will go on top? LOL.

[frazzled]

67. I am an Obama supporter, but I won't have such stupid ideas of women (or men) bandied about

/nt

[AZBlue]

111. Bamabots?

That's so rude. You do your candidate quite a disservice by using a term like that.

[frogcycle]

23. ironic, isn't it?

your reference to "not shaving" w/respect to men immediately made me think "well, a woman could not shave her legs and pits" and then of course that immediately seemed idiotic since we seem to have defined femininity in our society with shaving...

obviously the question is idiotic, but it does at least point out the absurdity of our biased stereotypes

And of course, to most males, all a female needs to do to "reclaim her femininity" is breath :)

[AGirl]

30. Making people think is great. Having long hair is also a sign of femininity

[frogcycle]

41. the shorter my wife gets her hair cut, the hotter she looks to me

oh, long hair is also attractive, but I wouldn't say there is any exclusive relationship

[bunnies]

55. Oh yeah? My hair is butt length

and feminine, I'm not.

[sarge43]

40. Oh please is right.

War story alert: During my extended stay in Uncle's Balloon Corps I was flipping thru the Uniform Manual one day and came across this edict. In uniform a male was to have a neat, clean and military appearance, a woman, neat, clean and feminine. I mentioned this to a staff judge advocate and asked, "Sir, just how would you legally define feminine or military for that matter?" He thought about it for a moment and answered, "Beat the shit out of me."

[Arkansas Granny]

14. Kindly explain when and how you feel that Senator Clinton lost her femininity.

[bunnies]

15. This is a bizarrely sexist post.

You know that right?

[LostinVA]

34. Bunnies, I'm betting they know it

The OP has been having "fun" with GDP for quite a few weeks now. It has lost it's entertainment value for me.

[bunnies]

53. This is insane.

Im starting to think half the people on GD:P are full of crap. One week she's a Hillary supporter screaming "sexism"... the next shes a Gravel supporter posting sexist bullshit. :banghead:

What gives?! I dont know about you, lostinva... but I cant wait 'till primary season is over. sheesh.

[LostinVA]

96. I'm about ready to start a constant vodka IV drip

I've started doing Zen meditation because of this stuff. I swear! So, that's at least one positive, eh?

Oh, you forgot her declaration a week or so ago proclaiming she's an Obama supporter. You can't weasel your way out of that!!!!!

:rofl:

[bunnies]

102. I missed the Obama declaration!

And I think Ive beat you to the vodka IV drip. LOL.

Ive been trying to get the hang of zen meditation for years!!!! Thats one hell of a positive! Im sour-puss jealous! x( :hug:

[LostinVA]

104. I think it was

St. Patrick's Day. Insane.

I've actually done a bit of meditation while trail running (strange, but it works!), but was afraid "formal" sitting would be too New Agey for me. However, I'm doing it with some people I know from my martial art dojo, and it's been great. We usually do a sitting meditation, a walking one, sitting, then yoga stretches. I've also just started doing it at home every day.

[Recursion]

16. As a bearded man, I'm particularly sad Richardson dropped out

I wish facial hair would return to being a sign of virile masculinity rather than shadiness.

Personally, I've always thought Senator Clinton might try wearing a dress. But dresses and skirts mean something very different to people my age and people her age.

[AGirl]

20. virile masculinity - that's the term. Thank you.

[frogcycle]

26. kind of repetitively redundant, isn't it?

[XemaSab]

18. Take a month off from the Senate and bake cookies?

:shrug:

[Kurovski]

27. TEEVEE has told me that it has something to do with freshness.

She should check her expiration code.

[BigDaddy44]

28. Boob Job

Stupid thread deserves a stupid answer

[Cleita]

32. Maybe she should just throw on a burqa.

I don't feel that false feminity and its trappinga are feminine. It's just demeaning to have to reclaim something you didn't "lose" to begin with
like putting on a dress or other meaningless gender rituals. Now if she has to shave to reclaim her feminity, then I'd say we are on to something. Honestly, she hasn't lost her gender, which is her feminity. I'm no fan of Hillary for other reasons, but to start painting on the old stereotypes on a woman who dared to aspire to a mans job is plainly sexist.

[AGirl]

37. we all have to become sort of asexual when we run for the presidential position,

It's not about me being a sexist, its about the way sexuality is muted out in politics.

[Cleita]

94. In that case the men candidates would be wearing kilts

or togas to appear more asexual. Would you be saying that they have to reclaim their masculinity by putting on pants and not shaving? Really, it's not about what you wear.

[Recursion]

36. I forget which columnist said it, but there will be a female candidate...

...who can use her gender to her advantage, like Elizabeth I did. Her strength will be seen as the strength of a mother protecting her children. Her loyalty to her country will be seen as a wife and mother's loyalty to her family. Women would defend her against attacks like she were their daughter and men would defend her against attacks like she were their little sister. She would be a formidable politician.

This is not Hillary Clinton. To many of us, especially us under about 35 or so, she never seemed comfortable in her femininity. Yes, it's the pant-suits. They say something, I don't know exactly what, to people older than me. To people my age and younger, they say "I'm not satisfied with being female".

It's like Obama's pastel ties. Apparently they are lost on people older than me. I think they say a whole lot.

[AGirl]

39. She seems to be a conservative person by nature but another fact is

She's getting older, and ladies her age have to cover up.

[Recursion]

47. But the worst part is SHE DOESN'T

There have been 2 or 3 times in this campaign that she has really started to win me over. They were when she stopped the phony political-consultant nonsense and actually let me see who Hillary Clinton is. And in a lot of ways she's a wonderful, strong, and wise woman that should have been President if she had only believed in herself and let the electorate see her for who she was.

[AGirl]

51. That's very true.

She shined in the CA debate and at the end of the Texas Debate, but she always go back to her scripted and oblivious self. There's something about women being highly adaptable, maybe we are always on guard and we feel that we always have to adapt to the expectation of others, and can't truely be ourselves. I just wish Clinton would be a female leader in that regard , and show some courage she can be her own woman.

[Recursion]

59. YES! That was exactly when I saw it

She shined in the CA debate and at the end of the Texas Debate

Same wavelength here. She really did a lot towards winning me over there.

There's something about women being highly adaptable, maybe we are always on guard and we feel that we always have to adapt to the expectation of others, and can't truely be ourselves.

I keep coming back to something I alluded to up-thread: Elizabeth I managed to be the most powerful person on earth in the 16th-century despite (and even helped by) all the prejudices and expectations about women. I'm a male, but Elizabeth I is probably my biggest personal hero in history because of how she handled herself and others' expectations of her to do what she knew needed to be done.

[JVS]

63. Bah. She was not as powerful as Holy Roman Emperor Charles/ Karl V

He controlled Spain, the Austrian Empire's non HRE possesions, The Holy Roman Empire (although there were some breakaway protestants up North), the Netherlands, and the Spanish colonies in the new world.

[Recursion]

66. Good luck projecting any of that power...

...once Elizabeth sank the entire Hapsburg fleet.

[JVS]

78. Hey, that's the story of the 17th century, not the 16th. Karl V was retired by the time Elizabeth..

took the throne.

[Uncle Joe]

42. I never thought of anyone having a beard or mustache as not being a gentlemen.

I view it more as a successful indoctrination by the Schick and Gillette corporations, etc. in to the necessity of purchasing their products on a daily basis.

I believe Caligula was clean shaven while Jesus and Lincoln had beards.

Of course my definition of a gentleman has more do to with character; a man of kindness, courage and honor rather than facial hair or the lack thereof.

In short I see growing a beard, mustache or not as simply fashion statements, akin to a woman changing her hair style or color with no reflection on her character.

[AGirl]

45. You are right.

But I think that preception/image does matter, and it has a stake in reality.

[Uncle Joe]

61. That's my point regarding perception/image,

I believe corporate America has for far too long skewed perception and image to the glorification of the superficial costing substance and depth it's fair share, and I'm convinced this corporate Matrix created mindset of the American People has only served to enable corrupt ignorance to power. I also believe this focus on the minutiae is ultimately a threat to our democratic republic.

I believe this current reality or Matrix of focusing on the trivial superficial aspects ie; who would you be more comfortable having a beer with? while they slander,libel and demean those sincere individuals and their good deeds ie; the Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet slander, instead of ie; giving him credit for his vision, dedication and commitment to the people by championing opening it up to them, does nothing but strengthen their hand.

I propose instead, we call them on it whether they're demeaning a woman if she wears pant suits, a dress, changes her hair style or demeaning a man whether he has a beard, mustache or is clean shaven.

[Jersey Devil]

43. Well, she grew up in the 60s, probably still has a Sgt Pepper mustache

That insert came with the album. Just cut out the mustache and put it on. If it doesn't work she can always go Brazilian.

WTF am I talking about?

[nebula]

44. It would help her image

Hillary's demeanor makes her even more masculine
than any of the current and former male candidates!

Hillary is what they call 'butch.'

[LostinVA]

52. "Hillary is what they call 'butch'"

Who is "they" and how is she "butch?"

[nebula]

68. The term 'battle axe' comes to mind.

battle axe

1. A fierce, unpleasant older woman with strong opinions.

Ms. Henry is a real battle axe!
Just ignore that old bird, she's a battle axe.

2. A very agressive and bad tempered (old) woman.

Shut up you old battle axe.

butch

Masculine or Macho dress and behavior.

[LostinVA]

70. It was very kind of you to provide the definition of the sexist term you're using against Hillary

That way you've eliminated any question that you intended to use a sexist slur against her. Sexist slurs are against the DU rules, btw.

And, she's not butch. Continually using it in a derogatory way against her is homophobic, which is also against the DU rules.

[nebula]

72. Its not sexist if its true.

nt.

[LostinVA]

76. It's a slur used exclusively against women -- that makes it sexist

How is that hard to understand?

[nebula]

85. You are entitled to your opinion.

nt.

[niyad]

108. you are completely clueless, aren't you? you don't even understand the words you

are using, and what they actually mean.

go play somewhere else, please. this kind of sexist drivel is disgusting, and, quite frankly, belongs on a completely different type of board.

[Debi]

77. UnFUCKINGbelievable!

:wow:

[LostinVA]

84. Sadly, nothing shocks me anymore

[Starbucks Anarchist]

65. Hillary's not remotely "butch."

And I didn't even vote for her.

[LostinVA]

74. Some people just like to throw out words they don't even understand as slurs

It's sad really.

Thanks for sticking up against that comment. Posts like that are wrong, regardless of who they're aimed at. Absolutely no excuse for it on a "progressive" board.

[JVS]

49. I'm kind of surprised by the hostility your post has attracted.

It's not news that different manners of grooming, dressing, and even acting can carry gendered meanings.

I'm a man and if I were to style my hair into a bouffant, or wear high heels it would certainly be seen as adopting an effeminate style of dress.

Similarly, if one of my co workers were to get her hair cut very short and wearing a men's suit, it would be recognized as adopting traditionally masculine grooming and dress, although over the last several decades women have adopted many styles once considered tokens of masculinity so it might not be seen as being as extreme as my bouffant and heels.

Similarly, when you see people dress in ethnic clothing, it sends a message about their identity to those around them.

Why is this so controversial?

[redqueen]

81. Don't get me started.

*sigh*

Yes, let's all decry labeling classically feminine attributes as 'feminine' because calling classically feminine things 'feminine' is SEXIST! It is SEXIST do you hear?!

:crazy:

[theredpen]

50. I think she takes her receipt to the customer care window

[crankychatter]

54. I don't know but I bet Oprah does

When I hear questions like this, I always refer people to Oprah.

[donheld]

56. How does a woman lose her femininity ?

[Ysabel]

60. wtf...

- fucking stupid thread...

[Debi]

62. Hillary Clinton in a dress?

[Recursion]

64. That's Hillary Clinton *on* a dress (nt)

[Debi]

73. Doh!

[crispini]

87. ROFL

did you two plan that? :rofl:

[Debi]

93. No...but it was a GREAT set up!

[Johnny__Motown]

69. If I said "Boob Job" I would be called sexist so I won't suggest that

[JVS]

89. Now that would just be surreal.

I'm behind in delegates, wait till they see these knockouts!

[Lost-in-FL]

71. WTF is this??

:wtf:

[Firespirit]

75. I think this is a serious post folks...

The OP has posted in the LGBT forum that she is a transwoman, and as such I imagine that issues of gender are quite important to her.

To the OP: From my perspective, Hillary "lost her femininity" not by any choice of dress or hairstyle, but by attacking the sexist "can a woman be 'as good as a man' as commander-in-chief" question on men's terms. I think much of her hawkishness was because she felt the need to "prove" that she could also be "tough" with military authority. Fearful of espousing fair views on war because she thought the media and the other candidates would insinuate that antiwar views were "girly," Hillary overcompensated to come off as a "tough guy."

Hillary IS a woman and femininity is part of who she is. All she has to do to reclaim her femininity is to reclaim her true political views, and be authentic.

[redqueen]

86. Interesting, thoughtful answer.

Thanks.

[grantcart]

88. Well the OP has a real knack for starting the strangest threads that get

the strangest replies

[Firespirit]

91. I can see how the post could piss people off

but my gut says she is being sincere.

Dressing and personal appearance are often VERY important to transgendered people. It's not indicative of sexism. When you are born in the wrong body, things like clothes, hair, makeup (if applicable), etc., are often critical parts of your identity, sometimes even after SRS. I think the post should be taken in that context.

[Lost-in-FL]

79. To reclaim ones femininity...

One should NOT change... if people don't like you for who you are they can all go fuck themselves.

[Debi]

82. 79 responses to get to this!

[EFerrari]

90. Twice. n/t

[SoCalDem]

83. She could put on an evening gown and tiara, and it would not change a thing

:)

[Beacool]

92. There are two main reasons why Hillary hardly ever wears a skirt anymore.

a) Comfort. She's much more comfortable in pants. Also, she's on the move constantly and it's easier to get in and out of cars, buses, planes, etc. when wearing pants. One more thing, she does not want any up-skirt shots when standing on a stage. She already had it happen once as first lady.

b) She doesn't care much for her legs and doesn't consider them to be her best feature.

[Cleita]

95. I seldom wear a skirt myself.

It's because I live in the country, but if I were a city dweller with a busy life, I probably would still seldom wear a dress. I don't consider myself any less feminine because of it.

[Bigleaf]

99. Yeah, but do you dress like this?

http://ts2.images.live.com/images/thumbnail.aspx?q=1499097597025&id=89e68e038c99c5da2851e25c72be7f24

[Cleita]

101. Sometimes even worse, especially when I need to work

in the yard.

[libnnc]

97. I didn't know she lost it.

What a weird question.

[Lilith Velkor]

98. *ahem*

[End Of The Road]

103. It's this kind of post that keeps me out of GD:P most of the time.

What idiotic tripe.

[WinkyDink]

105. My, you're looking lovely today, Mrs. Cleaver.

[crispini]

106. Well, if you're serious,

I think the best model an older woman can have for being feminine and yet modern (and comfortable!) is the "jjill" style. Sort of flowing and unbuttoned, yet comfortable. It's the model I've adopted. But I'm not sure that's the kind of thing that would go down well on the campaign trail. Nor do I think it would suit Hillary because she's all about the "defense" look, and looking feminine does not go with bombing whoever. :shrug:

[Bonobo]

110. Growing a beard more about throwing off shackles than "reclaiming" what you already have.

Many men are forced to shave. Yes, you can laugh, but it's true. Just as many are forced to wear ties.

To let one's facial hair (or other hair)grow is to symbolically, and in fact, throw off the bonds of the razor -the torturer of men's faces.

I might point out that shaving is particularly hard on Black men because of the tendency towards ingrown follicles, I understand.

[dailykoff]

114. I don't think a beard would suit her.

But then you never know. :)

[Maddy McCall]

112. .

Weird OP. Really, really weird.

[zulchzulu]

113. HINT: Hillary needs to rebrand herself...here's a suggestion

How fast can she grow her hair?

:evilgrin:



:

[Bonobo]

115. The greatest quality of women is to be loving and nurturing. She should be that.

[EmilyAnne]

117. Who says that Hillary isn't feminine? I think she's very feminine. She's a truly beautiful woman,

in my opinion, and people who insult her appearance really piss me off. I know that is not what you are doing, but I still think that people should lay off about "how much of a woman" she is. She's a woman, she's feminine and she looks like a perfectly healthy and beautiful 60 year old woman.

[Bluebear]

118. I recommend that famous designer, Emilio Trollaroni. I'm sure you know of him.

[Maddy McCall]

119. Can read no more of your posts.

Will pop a stitch.

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

120. :)

[Kurovski]

121. LOL!

:rofl:

[LostinVA]

123. OMFG

[Raine]

122. A skirt suit with a ruffly blouse

maybe wave her hair, I think she would look good. :-) Hillary used to dress that way and she wore headbands when her hair was longer, she looked very attractive. :thumbsup: