"I think that I'm more conservative than they are"

[Pastiche423]

So sayeth Kerry, referring to the repugs.

- snip -

"The moderate Democratic Leadership Council, on the other hand, is working overtime to claim Kerry is the heir to President Bill Clinton, portraying him as a centrist Democrat who practices fiscal responsibility, believes in a strong defense and is no hostage to liberal orthodoxy.

As he walked into the DLC's national convention here Friday, Kerry was greeted with whistles and a standing ovation. Aides said he felt quite comfortable with the people who had rejected the politics of the old Democratic past to forge what they consider a more sensible and centrist approach to government."

THIS is the most liberal Senator?

On Edit: http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/8629635.htm

[Armstead]

1. Depressing, aint it?

All that fuss and feathers, and we end up with non-liberal lite, yet again.

[LoZoccolo]

2. Post it in context.

It's probably about balanced budgets.

I think that people should get moderator warnings for posting things out of context.

[ButterflyBlood]

3. agreed

I've seen people do this all the time trying to lie or distort quotes from Kerry. This benefits no one but Karl Rove.

[Pastiche423]

8. What out of context?

I quoted him verbatim and provided the link.

The truth is, all of the "Kerry is so liberal" is a bunch of bunk. Every word that comes out of his mouth lately, proves that. Hell, he's the one that is running away from his "liberal" history.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pastiche423]

13. Oops, my bad

I edited my original post and added the link.

[ButterflyBlood]

14. the ENTIRE quote

"I think that I'm more conservative than they are," Kerry said during a campaign stop earlier this year in Oklahoma City. "Because I want to balance the budget, I want to be fiscally responsible, I want to create jobs, I want America to grow our manufacturing base."

That's NOT out of context?

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

5. I call it "building /my/ DU".

Kind of like "My Yahoo!" and all that.

[ButterflyBlood]

10. good idea

considering that this poster has said in the past that she will not vote for Kerry, I can't think of a better way to deal.

and to all non-Kerry voters: I consider you just as bad as the Freepers voting for Bush.

[ACK]

6. WTF is the DLC going to do besides protray him as centrist?

That is their schtick. That is their thing.

Aides said .... What else are they going to say?

They said he felt comfortable and nothing you said was a direct quote from a man who has the following record:

John Kerry on Abortion

No criminalization of a woman's right to choose. (Jun 7)
Voted NO on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on disallowing overseas military abortions. (May 1999)

John Kerry on Budget & Economy

Bush policy kept economy afloat in recession-keep some of it. (Sep 25)
No excuse for special tax cuts for the rich. (Jun 17)
Will follow Clinton's plan to halve deficit in four years. (Oct 2003)
Voted NO on prioritizing national debt reduction below tax cuts. (Apr 2000)
Voted NO on 1998 GOP budget. (May 1997)
Voted NO on Balanced-budget constitutional amendment. (Mar 1997)

John Kerry on Civil Rights

Include a sunset provision in the Patriot Act. (Jun 17)
Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on expanding hate crimes to include sexual orientation. (Jun 2000)
Voted YES on setting aside 10% of highway funds for minorities & women. (Mar 1998)
Voted NO on ending special funding for minority & women-owned business. (Oct 1997)
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex marriage. (Sep 1996)
Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination by sexual orientation. (Sep 1996)
Voted NO on Amendment to prohibit flag burning. (Dec 1995)
Voted NO on banning affirmative action hiring with federal funds. (Jul 1995)
Shift from group preferences to economic empowerment of all. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Corporations

Democratize the process of corporate boards. (Sep 25)
Voted NO on restricting rules on personal bankruptcy. (Jul 2001)

John Kerry on Crime

Voted YES on $1.15 billion per year to continue the COPS program. (May 1999)
Voted NO on limiting death penalty appeals. (Apr 1996)
Voted NO on limiting product liability punitive damage awards. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on restricting class-action lawsuits. (Dec 1995)
Voted YES on repealing federal speed limits. (Jun 1995)
Voted NO on mandatory prison terms for crimes involving firearms. (May 1994)
Voted NO on rejecting racial statistics in death penalty appeals. (May 1994)
More funding and stricter sentencing for hate crimes. (Apr 2001)
Require DNA testing for all federal executions. (Mar 2001)

John Kerry on Drugs (snicker)

Voted NO on increasing penalties for drug offenses. (Nov 1999)
Voted NO on spending international development funds on drug control. (Jul 1996)

John Kerry on Education

Voted YES on funding smaller classes instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on funding student testing instead of private tutors. (May 2001)
Voted YES on spending $448B of tax cut on education & debt reduction. (Apr 2001)
Voted NO on Educational Savings Accounts. (Mar 2000)
Voted NO on allowing more flexibility in federal school rules. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on education savings accounts. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on school vouchers in DC. (Sep 1997)
Voted NO on $75M for abstinence education. (Jul 1996)
Voted NO on requiring schools to allow voluntary prayer. (Jul 1994)
Voted YES on national education standards. (Feb 1994)
Offer every parent Charter Schools and public school choice. (Aug 2000)
Three R’s: $35B for Reinvestment,Reinvention,Responsibility. (Jan 2001)

John Kerry on Energy & Oil

ANWR won't provide any oil for 20 years. (Sep 25)
Invent our way out of oil dependency-don't drill our way out. (Sep 25)
Invest in advancing secure forms of energy instead of oil. (Jun 17)
Led effort to try to raise fuel efficiency standards. (May 3)
Create new energy sources to end Mideast dependency. (May 2002)
Voted YES on targeting 100,000 hydrogen-powered vehicles by 2010. (Jun 10)
Voted YES on removing consideration of drilling ANWR from budget bill. (Mar 19)
Voted NO on drilling ANWR on national security grounds. (Apr 2002)
Voted NO on replacing CAFE standards within 15 months. (Mar 2002)
Voted NO on preserving budget for ANWR oil drilling. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on keeping CAFE fuel efficiency standards. (Sep 1999)
Voted NO on defunding renewable and solar energy. (Jun 1999)
Voted NO on approving a nuclear waste repository. (Apr 1997)
Voted NO on do not require ethanol in gasoline. (Aug 1994)
Supports tradable emissions permits for greenhouse gases. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Environment

Safeguard the environment and grow the economy. (Jun 17)
Voted NO on confirming Gale Norton as Secretary of Interior. (Jan 2001)
Voted NO on more funding for forest roads and fish habitat. (Sep 1999)
Voted NO on transportation demo projects. (Mar 1998)
Voted YES on reducing funds for road-building in National Forests. (Sep 1997)
Voted YES on terminating desert protection in California. (Oct 1994)
Voted YES on requiring EPA risk assessments. (May 1994)
Reduce liability for hazardous waste cleanup. (May 2001)

John Kerry on Families & Children

Fund Head Start to leave no child behind. (Sep 4)
Voted YES on restricting violent videos to minors. (May 1999)
Give parents tools to balance work and family. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Foreign Policy

Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
Voted YES on killing a bill for trade sanctions if China sells weapons. (Sep 2000)
Voted NO on cap foreign aid at only $12.7 billion. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on limiting the President's power to impose economic sanctions. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on limiting NATO expansion to only Poland, Hungary & Czech. (Apr 1998)
Voted YES on $17.9 billion to IMF. (Mar 1998)
Voted NO on Strengthening of the trade embargo against Cuba. (Mar 1996)
Voted YES on ending Vietnam embargo. (Jan 1994)
Progressive Internationalism: globalize with US pre-eminence. (Aug 2000)
Multi-year commitment to Africa for food & medicine. (Apr 2001)

John Kerry on Free Trade

Dean's trade policy is protectionist. (Sep 25)
FTAA needs more labor and environmental standards. (Sep 4)
Fix NAFTA-canceling it would be disastrous. (Sep 4)
Capitalism and democracy go hand in hand. (May 3)
Voted YES on extending free trade to Andean nations. (May 2002)
Voted YES on granting normal trade relations status to Vietnam. (Oct 2001)
Voted YES on removing common goods from national security export rules. (Sep 2001)
Voted YES on permanent normal trade relations with China. (Sep 2000)
Voted YES on expanding trade to the third world. (May 2000)
Voted YES on renewing 'fast track' presidential trade authority. (Nov 1997)
Voted YES on fast track trading authority. (Nov 1997)
Voted YES on imposing trade sanctions on Japan for closed market. (May 1995)
Build a rule-based global trading system. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Government Reform

Flag and patriotism belong to all Americans. (Jun 17)
Voted YES on banning "soft money" contributions and restricting issue ads. (Mar 2002)
Voted NO on allow signatures for voter registration instead of photo IDs. (Feb 2002)
Voted YES on McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on limiting funding for the National Endowment for the Arts. (Aug 1999)
Voted YES on cloture of 1998 McCain-Feingold overhaul of campaign finance. (Feb 1998)
Voted YES on favoring 1997 McCain-Feingold overhaul of campaign finance. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on Approving the presidential line-item veto. (Mar 1996)
Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. (Jul 1995)
Voluntary public financing for all general elections. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Gun Control

Voted YES on background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted NO on loosening license & background checks at gun shows. (May 1999)
Voted NO on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Prevent unauthorized firearm use with "smart gun" technology. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Health Care

Cover more citizens with health plan like Congress gets. (May 3)
Lack of accessible health care is a disgrace. (May 2002)
Voted YES on allowing importation of Rx drugs from Canada. (Jul 2002)
Voted YES on allowing patients to sue HMOs & collect punitive damages. (Jun 2001)
Voted NO on funding GOP version of Medicare prescription drug benefit. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on including prescription drugs under Medicare. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on limiting self-employment health deduction. (Jul 1999)
Voted YES on increasing funds for Medicare prescriptions. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on increasing tobacco restrictions. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
Voted YES on Medicare means-testing. (Jun 1997)
Voted YES on medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
Establish "report cards" on HMO quality of care. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Homeland Security

No new generation of nuclear weapons. (Sep 4)
Automatic citizenship to immigrants who serves in army. (Sep 4)
Voted YES on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty. (Oct 1999)
Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures. (May 1999)
Voted NO on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels. (May 1999)
Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP. (Mar 1999)
Voted YES on military pay raise of 4.8%. (Feb 1999)
Voted NO on deploying missile defense as soon as possible. (Sep 1998)
Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex basic training. (Jun 1998)
Voted NO on favoring 36 vetoed military projects. (Oct 1997)
Voted YES on banning chemical weapons. (Apr 1997)
Voted NO on considering deploying NMD, and amending ABM Treaty. (Jun 1996)
Voted NO on 1996 Defense Appropriations. (Sep 1995)

John Kerry on Immigration

Amnesty to anyone here over 5 or 6 years. (Sep 4)
Voted NO on allowing more foreign workers into the U.S. for farm work. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on visas for skilled workers. (May 1998)
Voted NO on limit welfare for immigrants. (Jun 1997)

John Kerry on Infrastructure

Voted YES on Internet sales tax moratorium. (Oct 1998)
Voted YES on telecomm deregulation. (Feb 1996)
Chief information officer to digitize federal government. (Aug 2000)
Promote internet via Congressional Internet Caucus. (Jan 2001)

John Kerry on Jobs

Trade grows jobs. (Sep 25)
Jump start jobs at home via energy independence. (Sep 4)
Voted NO on repealing Clinton's ergonomic rules on repetitive stress. (Mar 2001)
Voted NO on killing an increase in the minimum wage. (Nov 1999)
Voted NO on allowing workers to choose between overtime & comp-time. (May 1997)
Voted NO on replacing farm price supports. (Feb 1996)

John Kerry on Principles & Values

Favorite song: Bruce Springsteen, "No Surrender.". (Sep 9)
Need a president who won't write laws only for contributors. (Sep 9)
Contest between common sense values and extreme ideologues. (Jun 7)
I'm talking about things that matter to people. (May 3)
It is time for this country to ask again, why not? (May 3)
Religious affiliation: Catholic. (Nov 2000)
Supports Hyde Park Declaration of "Third Way" centrism. (Aug 2000)
Member of Democratic Leadership Council. (Nov 2000)
New Democrat: "Third Way" instead of left-right debate. (Nov 2000)
Member of the Senate New Democrat Coalition. (Jan 2001)

John Kerry on Social Security

Guarantee Social Security soundness, even if unpopular. (Sep 25)
Don't threaten Social Security on Wall Street trading block. (May 2002)
Voted NO on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt. (Apr 1999)
Voted NO on allowing Roth IRAs for retirees. (May 1998)
Voted NO on allowing personal retirement accounts. (Apr 1998)
Voted NO on deducting Social Security payments on income taxes. (May 1996)
Create Retirement Savings Accounts. (Aug 2000)

John Kerry on Tax Reform

10% bracket in Bush tax cuts was Democrats' idea. (Sep 25)
Bush tax cuts reach 32 million in middle class. (Sep 25)
We're tired of being trickled on--Middle class tax cuts now. (Jun 7)
Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. (May 23)
Voted NO on cutting taxes by $1.35 trillion over 11 years. (May 2001)
Voted YES on reducing marriage penalty instead of cutting top tax rates. (May 2001)
Voted YES on increasing tax deductions for college tuition. (May 2001)
Voted NO on eliminating the 'marriage penalty'. (Jul 2000)
Voted NO on across-the-board spending cut. (Oct 1999)
Voted NO on $792B tax cuts. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on requiring super-majority for raising taxes. (Apr 1998)
Voted NO on FY99 tax cuts. (Apr 1998)

John Kerry on War & Peace

Maybe on $87B for Iraq-repeal Bush tax cut to pay it, if yes. (Sep 25)
De-Americanize Iraq: the exit strategy is victory. (Sep 9)
Vote for war was needed to push Saddam on inspectors. (Sep 9)
$87B for Iraq only when internationalization is addressed. (Sep 9)
Don't miss 3rd opportunity in Iraq to bring in UN. (Sep 4)
Don't send more US troops to Iraq-share power & share burden. (Sep 4)
Against a misapplied blanket pre-emptive doctrine. (Jun 17)
Intelligence information should not be manipulated. (Jun 17)
Disarm Saddam, but war should be a last resort. (May 3)
Preferred diplomacy, but supported invading Iraq. (May 3)
Vietnam didn't threaten US; US war crimes did. (Apr 1971)
Vietnam war was criminal hypocrisy and tore apart US. (Apr 1971)
Voted YES on authorizing use of military force against Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted NO on allowing all necessary forces and other means in Kosovo. (May 1999)
Voted YES on authorizing air strikes in Kosovo. (Mar 1999)
Voted NO on ending the Bosnian arms embargo. (Jul 1995)
Condemns anti-Muslim bigotry in name of anti-terrorism. (Oct 2001)

John Kerry on Welfare & Poverty

Voted YES on welfare block grants. (Aug 1996)
Voted YES on eliminating block grants for food stamps. (Jul 1996)
Voted NO on allowing state welfare waivers. (Jul 1996)
Voted YES on welfare overhaul. (Sep 1995)
Finish welfare reform by moving able recipients into jobs. (Aug 2000)

Also the following direct quotes:

“If the worst thing they can say about me is that I’m a liberal, well, then, bring it on,” Kerry said.

Also, following his wins in Iowa and New Hampshire, he said something to the effect of

"If wanting better schools makes me a liberal, then yeah, I am a liberal."

If he to the right of Kuicinch and Nader?

Yes.

Is he to the left of Clinton, Lieberbush and the way Gore ran last time?

Yes.

I am just damn glad I get to vote for someone who is the to left of Clinton this time.

Listen, who the heck do you support?

No, I am NOT saying don't post or you have to follow our line because I will put a boot to your neck or any of that crap.

I am saying what the hell are you doing?

If you do not like the direction get out and study the Wellstone tactics and change the Dem party for the better and sign Kok01's petition to move the party platform to the left and well do something.

If you want to go green then I disagree with you but go for it. Follow your heart.

But why bust a good man for not being the kind of candidate you want?

Kerry is not your man, coool. I think that everyone in the fucking universe knows that. We get it.

Why tear him down every single post you make?

I have not seen you make one recent post that was anything but a Kerry tear down.

Maybe I am not looking in the right place.

_

[mzmolly]

16. Thanks for the common sense.

:hi:

[JetCityLiberal]

45. Agree with mzmolly

Common sense.

To mzmolly :hi:

and thanks.


JetCityLiberal

[Rowdyboy]

28. Your response to this bullshit attack is wonderful, thorough and

makes your point perfectly. Every word you write is rational and fair and even-handed, however, you are wasting your time here. Some people are unable to rise above their pettiness to work for the betterment of the many. Its selfishness, IMO.

[AntiCoup2K4]

44. Why don't you just post a link to Kerry's goddamned website

Instead of spamming the board with it everytime someone challenges the fucking DLC myth of Kerry being "Super Liberal"

[ACK]

54. Kerry is not a super liberal and if you had actually looked

I posted that as well.

I am not spamming the boards this is the first time in weeks I posted this particular list.

I have another more focused its more than just ABB post I usually pull out for this occasion.

I thought you were one of the folks whining how gestapo the Kerry folks are when telling others to shut up?

Why are you now so pissed that I post my own opinion.

His voting record in this detail is not on his website but an elections issue site.

If your perception of him is more important than his record then I guess that is telling in and of itself.

[JI7]

7. good for him, he is following those that won like Bill

[oldhat]

9. Exactly

How many Kuciniches and Barbara Lees have ever been president?

[no name no slogan]

43. None yet-- but that's the PROBLEM

Kerry is better on the issues than Bush, true, but he really doesn't have a plan to take this country in a different direction: one that seeks to make the US a force for peace in the world, one that supports fair trade over corporate-friendly "free trade", one that guarantees health care and a pre-k through college public education for EVERYONE.

Kerry will continue to put more patches on the inner tube of this country, although the tire is bald and getting worse.

[RafterMan]

12. If that means

he won't run up trillions in debt and invade random countries, sign me up!

[ButterflyBlood]

15. THE ENTIRE QUOTE:

"I think that I'm more conservative than they are," Kerry said during a campaign stop earlier this year in Oklahoma City. "Because I want to balance the budget, I want to be fiscally responsible, I want to create jobs, I want America to grow our manufacturing base."

what do you know, someone else blatantly distorting another Kerry quote!

Someone explain to me how lying about and quoting Kerry out of context benefits anyone but the Republicans.

[Pastiche423]

17. The primaries are not over and...

I can still dream of a brokered convention.

[ButterflyBlood]

18. no you can't

Kerry already has the delgates neccesary to secure the nomination. It doesn't matter if he lost every delegate from now on. Kerry is the nominee, period.

[Pastiche423]

21. Anything can happen at a convention...

It has in the past. And w/Kerry's lack of guts, a vision, a personality, a definite stance on ANYTHING and his miserable polling, it sure would help the Democratic Party if he just stepped aside.

You want to win, don't you?

[ButterflyBlood]

23. yes

and I will help in doing that by not lying about and trying to drag down our nominee in the case of the 1/1000000 chance he ends up not being the nominee.

miserable polling? He's beating * in almost every poll, and is running either equal or better than Gore's showing in all the state ones.

[ACK]

25. Miserable polling?

Listen I want him to take a firmer stance on the war by talking about an exit strategy during the election.

I do NOT agree with him on his support of Sharon even if it prevented Bush from out-Zioning him.

Still, he is ahead in a lot of polls before the freakin' convention against an incumbent during a war, even a war that sucks and is going badly. This is good.

Historically, this is a very good sign.

Yes, there is a lot of time till election day but that is not miserable polling.

_

[ACK]

20. Dream about disenfranchising the votes of the majority

Damn, that sounds like FLA.

You getting ready to study Bush tactics to get more progressives in?

Huh?

The majority of Dems in the majority of primaries voted for Kerry.

Even if he is not the candidate you want, are you saying you would turn against Democracy to get your way?

_

[Pastiche423]

24. "The majority of Dems in the majority of primaries voted for Kerry"

Wrong!

Two, that's TWO states is NOT the majority of Dems. Nor is it the majority of primaries.

You count way funny.

Btw, what I am doing is working for and supporting progressive Dems for the House and Senate. I am also working for progressive Dems in my county and in my state.

All of which will do a hell of a lot more good for our party than Kerry is doing now or, more than likely, will do IF he is elected.

I have zero confidence that any progressive voice will be heard if whistle ass manages to lose.

[ButterflyBlood]

27. Kerry has won more than 2 primaries

39 actually. He has only lost 4 so far. and you accuse someone of counting funny?

[Pastiche423]

30. Kerry was crowned after only two states had voted

[ButterflyBlood]

32. No one forced the remaining 37 states to vote for him

they could've picked whoever they wanted.

[LoZoccolo]

29. I get it.

I have zero confidence that any progressive voice will be heard if whistle ass manages to lose.

The "destroy america with Bush*" strategy. Basically says that you think your goals are useless if you have to make things worse for people to appreciate them.

[Pastiche423]

35. Comprehend much?

Kerry is and has been running a mushy centrist/repug type campaign, agreeing w/whistle ass more than not.

He is trying to win the election, running as a repug.

Now, how could I have any faith that someone that runs that way, will do a 180 and listen to progressive voices IF he wins?

But hey, if you like finger in the wind politicos that are in it strictly for themselves, then he's the guy for you!

I prefer someone w/guts that want to help and heal our country and are not afraid of standing up for what they believe.

I also prefer someone w/at least a little energy.

[ACK]

39. More progressive platform than mainstream DLC

He is talking about adjusting NAFTA and not backing the FTAA without serious revisions for goodness sakes.

The idea of National Healthcare policy has entered the political debate again.

He has one of the best environmental voting records of any Senator.

He has a 90% lifetime voting record rating from AFL/CIO and does not demonize workers and their unions.

Before you even start I do not think the man walks on water and I was pissed about his comments about supporting Sharon even if it did mean preventing Bush from out-Zioning him.

However, I understand that Kerry is to the left of Clinton, Lieberbush and the way Gore ran in 2000.

This is one of disingenous arguements I have heard in awhile.

_

[ACK]

31. You are kicking it up for whistle ass to win?

Your kidding right?

You are saying you want Bush in for four more years?

Do you really honestly thing that is going to accomplish anything besides getting us into another two wars?

I should have said btw and I admit that Kerry won more popular votes that any other candidate and won the vast majority of the races.

With a brokered election you are still pissing on the votes and usurping the will of the Democratic voters that came to the primaries.

More than like will do? You have had to ignore the man's record and twist his words around and out of context to make him look conservative. How the hell do you know what he is likely to do in office?


_

[LoZoccolo]

34. Why doesn't she just make her progressive voice heard now?

She said:

I have zero confidence that any progressive voice will be heard if whistle ass manages to lose.

So why isn't she out getting some consensus on how we should solve our problems in a progressive way, so that maybe a big contingent in the party will think it's important, and any candidate that runs in the future will have to address it?

Probably because she and all the rest of these slacking activists, who don't know how or aren't willing to get people to agree with them are busy playing these silly and dangerous political games. Why would all the people that would get hurt by four more years of Bush* care fuck all about satisfying these people that got Bush* elected after all that?

[sandnsea]

47. Don't lie to further your ideology

I'm more sick of that than I am centrist politics.

[mzmolly]

22. Thanks... Just saw your post but posted essentially the same thing

:hi:

[mzmolly]

19. The quote in context:

"If you ask Kerry, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, he will say his record is too complex for any one label. And he frequently questions whether the Bush administration deserves to be called conservative.

"I think that I'm more conservative than they are," Kerry said during a campaign stop earlier this year in Oklahoma City. "Because I want to balance the budget, I want to be fiscally responsible, I want to create jobs, I want America to grow our manufacturing base."

Somehow the quote is not as scandalous when it's in context?

[JI7]

33. howard dean often made the same point

[LoZoccolo]

36. Funny how you haven't been back...

...since you got caught.

[mitchum]

And thank god (or whatever) for that!

[Pastiche423]

38. Huh?

Don't you read entire threads?

I got caught at nothing. Kerry said it and he's acting it.

Many activists have written and called the Kerry campaign, requesting he address progressive issues. We are being ignored.

I know that many campaigners/staff read this board. My post was just one more try to get my and other voters' concerns out there.

If he does not want liberal votes, then good luck to him. He'll need it.

[LoZoccolo]

40. Your post was nothing but bullshit.

Many activists have written and called the Kerry campaign, requesting he address progressive issues. We are being ignored.

This is, as I've said, a bad strategy in a democracy. No one's going to make a priority out of enunciating support for an issue that most people don't even understand. It's just not going to be the focus, whether they agree with you or not. Go to the people instead, and then any candidate can't ignore it.

I always put forth the example of how gay and lesbian activists have gotten the support of many times the number of people in their constituency by putting out a clear message to a broad swath of people. Same-sex unions are now a major issue, despite the fact that they would directly be taken by at most less than 10% of the population. Go and do the same and you might have your progressive whatever-it-is-you-want-that-you-haven't-even-said-in-this-thread-but-saw-fit-enough-to-mislead-people-to-try-to-get-it. And don't fuck us over by getting Bush* elected - don't sacrifice the rest of our issues for yours and we might be less moody when we finally hear your message.

My post was just one more try to get my and other voters' concerns out there.

It didn't stay that way for long, seeing as everyone gets to see all the replies where we point out that it was complete bilge water because you took the thing out of context.

[Pastiche423]

41. "And don't fuck us over by getting Bush* elected"

I am not voting for whistle ass, so no worries.

Besides, I only have one vote. How damaging can that be?

[mitchum]

42. Your one vote is not damaging at all (derspite your wishing it so)..

however, your misrepresentations and whining have become very tiresome

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[QC]

46. The most dishonest post I have ever seen here.

And that's really saying something.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ButterflyBlood]

49. agreed

this is like something right out of Karl Rove's playbook.

[Pastiche423]

50. I should be banned

because I disagree w/your opinion?

I was not aware that censorship promotes democracy.

Will no dissent be allowed in Kerry's administration, as well?

Denying Kerry's many faults will not make them go away, nor will they help his campaign.

Memories of the 2002 mid-terms keep flooding back...

[Justice]

56. I Don't Object to Your Disagreement, I Object To

your deliberate misquoted of Kerry's statement and your insulting names of him.

You are angry that he is not addressing progressive issues -- you don't say he is not progressive, just that he is not talking about those issues. Very strange.

Dissent is fine - but you are not dissenting, you are just slamming with insults, misquotes and vague objections. Republicans do this. I am not saying you are one, just that your behavior of late resembles republican behavior.

Be constructive.

[ACK]

55. It was a classic misquote but banned?

I don't think I can agree with that.

Its not like she is a freeper disruptor.

[OKNancy]

51. This would be funny if it weren't so sad

The muddle-headed reaction to the COMPLETE Kerry quote is so unreal coming from a Dean supporter.


I'm much more conservative with money than Bush is
The president of the United States can't balance a budget. We've not had one Republican president in 34 years balance the budget. You can't trust right-wing Republicans with your money. You ought to hire somebody who has balanced a budget. I'm much more conservative with money than George Bush is.
Source: Democratic 2004 Primary Debate at St. Anselm College Jan 22, 2004
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Budget_+_Economy.htm

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bklyncowgirl]

53. Kerry's pointing out that the Bush republicans are radical

Hey folks take it easy. Kerry was just pointing out that Bush is no conservative. He is a radical. I've heard Howard Dean say much the same thing.

As far as getting along with the DLC, Kerry has to get along with the DLC. He also has to get along with the activist wing of the party and every other more or less organized group that has any influence in this loosely disorganized coalition we call the Democratic Party.

"We must all hang to gether or most assuredly we will all hang seperately." Ben Franklin

[Moderator]

57. Locking....

I have removed several personal attacks from
this thread. There are also some
insinuation that the author of the thread
is a freeper.

Please read the rules:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#civility


Thank you.

DU Moderator