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Mike03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:49 PM
Original message
An Example of Disgusting Sexism against Sentator Clinton
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:55 PM by Mike03
This example amazes me, because it comes from my favorite talk show host of all time: Ray Taliafero, of KGO, 810 AM San Francisco. I discovered him when I was still in high school in the very late 70s.

He's a progressive Liberal Dem, a brilliant human being who I never disagreed with once, over thirty years, until he began to filibuster five nights a week, four hours a night, for Obama. Being an African American who fought in the trenches for African American rights, who can blame him for being an elated supporter of Obama's?

But does he have to do this: Most of the time when he mentions Senator Clinton's name, he refers to her only as "Bill's lover" and "the woman who stood by him when he got a blow job from Monica Lewinsky." He has no respect for Hillary Clinton at all, even though since 1992 he has been singing the praises of the Clintons. Suddenly she is a "witch", and a "broad." He has demonized her completely, and it's so shocking to me.

I can totally understand someone preferring Obama over Clinton, as I do, but it's sickening to do this to Hillary Clinton. It's some kind of mental distortion that overcomes some people who are so desperate for Obama that they lose their dignity and self-respect and totally undermine their own integrity and self-professed intelligence and sense of equality.

"Bill's lover"
"The woman who stood by him when he got a blowjob."
"A witch."
"A terrible person."
"A broad."

And that's from one of our most intelligent and active democrats in California.

ON EDIT: You know that Rolling Stones song "Winning Ugly"?

I want to win as badly as many of you do, but I want a clean and dignified win, not a dirty win. Let's follow Obama's example and not descend into the sewer. A win under those circumstances is not anything to be proud of, but just something to be ashamed of, and totally and completely against what Obama stands for.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're right. This is unacceptable, egregious.
I'll call the station in the morning.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's pretty sick.
It reminds me of Limbaugh's beating up John McCain in 2000.
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pathansen Donating Member (696 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Yes, can you imagine if someone used the "N" word against Obama?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 06:40 PM by pathansen
Understandably, he'd be in trouble.
So why shouldn't it be the same for sexist language?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Is the "N" word the last taboo on DU?
My god how low we have sunk with everything else.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. There are plenty of invectives that are not allowed under any circumstances at DU.
Please refer to the rules: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...

They seem to be uniformly enforced.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. How often do you think it is necessary to stop DU'ers from using the N word?
I bet it virtually never happens, except for an occasional troll on the way to being tombstoned.

Can't say the same for the words used against women, though.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. That wasn't your original point, but I agree with this new point.
I'd be willing to bet that those in the GLBT community here at DU feel much the same way.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Probably because I'm a different poster.
:hi:

And I think you'd win your bet.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Oy. You'd think I'd recognize you. sigh.
:hi:
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #37
77. Can you call him the name on his driver's license, the one he would be sworn in by?
Not really very "post racial"?
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
81. Uniformly enforced
You think?

Would be nice.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
3. next, why don't you do a diatribe about Jay Leno. Considering the sick Psychodrama the Clintons
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:55 PM by cryingshame
have forced onto the American public and world stage, I say too damned bad.

You're in the public eye, tv comedians and radio hosts trying to be witty will make jokes at your expense. And they won't be politically incorrect.
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. Then you wn't mind if someone refers to Obama as the "N" Candidate?
As you say, "too damned bad."

Because that's what a lot of people ARE saying.

Bake
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
4. Did he get this from Obama supporters here on DU?
I have heard her called the same things here
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. link?
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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. You want over a 1000 links to thread right here on DU?
My suggestion, start reading
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. do a search----here on DU---a long list of sexist comments will come up
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
32. now that IS funny
and a real crying shame for those who want a united party to win in November and not a fractured divisive mess
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. I keep a safe distance from Ray
He "promised" that Kerry would win in 2004, AND that he would actually be inaugurated as president in 2005. Since then, I have been cautious about Ray, who I still agree with most of the time.
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totodeinhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. Remember he's a talk show host out for ratings.
And like other talk show hosts he is mainly an entertainer.
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. I concur that behavior is atrocious
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. Bill is Hillary's personal albatross and her political albatross as well.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:57 PM by Old Crusoe
He's a hydra-headed albatross, in fact, and has both cursed and blessed her chances in this nomination race.

She's famous because he was famous, so she never had to build a case or a candidacy, because the public relations lake had already been generously stocked.

On the other hand, a lot of people in the Democratic Party -- as well as Independents -- are not interested in 4 to 8 more years of triangulation from The Clintons.

She's tried to take credit for the good stuff and distance herself from the bad stuff. It doesn't work like that.

And you know what? All these Hillary-as-Victim-of-sexism posts reduce her to a squawking hen. Let's make that a shrieking, harping, histrionic, and hysterical sqauwking hen.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Old Crusoe, I'm sorry to see you entering into the misogyny.
"shrieking, harping, histrionic, and hysterical squawking hen."

I had thought better of you.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. I chose those adjectives on purpose. I'll choose them again. The "sexism"
argument is total horseshit start to finish and I'll play by the ORIGINAL feminists' rules, not Hillary Clinton's.


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You are saying that NONE of the attacks against her
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 06:16 PM by pnwmom
have roots in sexism and/or misogyny?

And you don't see how ridiculing a female candidate using sexist terms hurts ALL women?

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Sorry, you folks can whip this horse all you want, but it isn't going to get
off the ground, it isn't going to come back to life, and it won't get you home to mama.

She entered the brawl on its own terms. She is no more a feminist than John Boehner. She drinks less, but she's no more a feminist than he.

She long ago stopped being the Hillary Clinton of IT TAKES A VILLAGE and has since become the Hillary Clinton who has "feminist" icon Geraldine Gerraro race-bait her opponent.

She's lost a huge lead, a gigantic purse, delegate after delegate, and handful after handful of primaries and caucsues. She trails in polling. She has not offered anything substantive or positive to advance or define her own campaign since Feb. 5th of this year because she felt she would have the nomination in the bag by then and wouldn't need to seriously compete post-Feb. 5th, which is well beyond arrogance.

Posts suggesting that she has lost all that ground owing to her gender are horseshit. Grab a shovel.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. What do you mean "you folks"?
I never said she lost "all that ground" owing to her gender, and I'm not aware of anyone else who has either. There are plenty of good, rational, reasons for opposing her candidacy that have nothing to do with her being either female or not-female-enough.

But she has always faced SOME gender-based attacks, and among progressives, there shouldn't have been any. When a woman politician is attacked this way, it is an attack on all women.

Progressives wouldn't dream of calling an African-American a N**, but a significant number think it's fine to call a women a B*** or even a C***. And they are supported by people with blind spots like yours.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #39
83. Anyone who posts on DU that HClinton is a "victim" owing to "sexism"
constitutes a special class of folks, IMO.

I think the claim is askew by several degrees bordering on precipitous incline.

Why are there no deep-root feminism posts regarding pre-consciousness and womanhood? One answer is that most of those "folks" posting that Hillary Clinton is a victim of sexism don't know shit about roots feminism or archetypes. If the issue is roots feminism and the archetypal feminine, the posts by those "folks" would not be in GD-P. They'd be in a Women's forum, and they'd be sparsely attended. Sadly so, but true enough.

I really and truly do not hang out with any progressives who use the slang nouns you reference to discuss women, with the possible exception of some particularly liberated women of our happy acquaintenance, who are free spirits as regards the lexicon and could effortlessly swear any sailor under the table in 5 minutes flat.

pnwmom, if you have some spare change and a little time, I recommend your give a look to Nor Hall's magnificent book on the archetypal feminine, THE MOON AND THE VIRGIN. It is absolutely outstanding.


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #83
87. I believe you don't hang out with progressives who call women by those
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 02:46 AM by pnwmom
names, but there have been countless posts here on DU calling Hillary sexist slurs -- and you managed one yourself a few posts ago.

I don't know whether I've used the word "victim" with regard to HRC, because I don't view her as a victim. But I do think she has faced sexist and misogynistic slurs and ridicule and I'm sick of it.

It's hard to take seriously a book recommendation from someone who just called HRC a "shrieking, harping, histrionic, and hysterical squawking hen." It would be like reading a book because Limbaugh or Coulter recommended it.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. The distinction needs to be made between people who do and people
who don't use slang nouns to debase others.

I reassert my deliberate choice of adjectives, chosen for exactly the purpose you indicate, to marginalize the argument that Senator Clinton is the "victim" of "sexism."

I reject that categorically.

Demeter brooked no bullshit and NO one would consider her a victim.


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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #92
95. A distinction needs to be made between people who only exist in myths,
like Demeter, and real live human beings like Hillary Clinton.

I don't expect Hillary to live up to the standards of a goddess. But you and too many others do.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. It is Demeter who is the more alive of the two.
There is, as the feminist archetypal model instructs, the goddess in every woman. Dowling thinks so. So does Nor Hall. Jung provides the basis. It is an old idea but it is in constant want of rekindling.

Your point about who lives up to what is off-base. A god, or goddess, becomes manifest in human form and delineates character of a given man or woman -- whether in pre-Homeric Greece or in modern-day New York. Hillary Clinton actually is an Athena woman. Ivy League-educated, inarguably successful, influensive, drawing from the pool of wisdom of collective and received intelligence.

Barbara Boxer is a modern woman also, but there is great Diana energy in her, plus the Dionysian spark that is missing in Hillary Clinton.

The mythic is a real place, IMO. it is not "olden times" or "fictional." But quite authentic as a psychic engine that drives our personalities. Jungian psychology abounds with these references.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Feminism was never and is still not about playing the victim.
I don't understand how some have gotten the two confused.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. What is this language?
"All these Hillary-as-Victim-of-sexism posts reduce her to a squawking hen. Let's make that a shrieking, harping, histrionic, and hysterical sqauwking hen."

WTF is this?

From Democrats?

She is not a victim of anything.

It's about fairness and the OP had a good point.

A lot of people in the Democraic party are not interested in your triangulatin between Sen. Clinton and the Repugs and playing them off each other in the politics of personal destruction.

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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #50
85. bluedawg12, it's the Clintons who are in the triangulatin' hot seat.
I'm the one objecting to it.

The language was deliberate, not casual.

We agree strongly that Senator Clinton is not a victim.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
75. Well, I'm not sure she's a victim in this example. I do
think the comments are insulting, demeaning and unnecessary. But to me, they reflect on the speaker far more than the one spoken of, you know?

I totally agree with you that she's both benefited and suffered from being Mrs. Clinton. I have to assume those are choices she made with open eyes, and I think she has to live with the consequences, and the benefits, of those choices.

She's not a victim, in any case. She's made her own choices. She's in a very public position - by choice, again - and it's natural that people are going to say mean things about her. I think she can take it. I also think that any nasty comments about her based on her gender are secondary. I don't think that's the big objection to her out there - it's a convenient excuse in some quarters, for sure. But I think her history and her husband's history - not to mention their behavior during this campaign - are what's behind any meanness.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #75
86. Of COURSE those slang nouns and phrases are insulting, but that is NOT
to say they are particular to the Clinton campaign.

Those same slang nouns directed at decidedly non-famous women are insulting, period. Clinton's celebrity is not a cause for the OP to exaggerate their supposed impact on U.S. politics.

We didn't hear one peep from the Hillary-as-Victim "feminists" when Senator Moseley-Braun ran in 2004. All males as opponents, too, just like this cycle.


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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #86
90. I do think in general there's a level of comfort in our society with
using demeaning language toward women. So much so that we often don't even notice it. It's perfectly acceptable, and anyone who objects must be some sort of wild-eyed feminist. (The last word said with a sneer).

I'm just not convinced that - for the most part - Hillary Clinton is attacked because of her gender, or primarily because of her gender. I think she's just developed a fairly substantial number of people who dislike her, who dislike her husband as well. In the second case, I'd say it's a stronger version of "the company you keep" argument so many are making about Obama vis a vis Wright.

I do NOT think all the dislike has been "justified" over the years. And I've said so. But I DO think her behavior, and the behavior she's at the least allowed, if not encouraged, from her campaign has been a huge turn-off. I know I'm hugely disappointed, and often disgusted with it now.

Mosley-Braun was in no way as serious a candidate as Clinton was this go-round. Can't say the good and bad of that - we had some extraordinary people who dropped out early on and just never rose to "serious candidate" status. Likewise, Shirley Chisholm, who was pretty amazing, was just too far ahead of her time, I think. I absolutely believe we're ready for a woman president. I just so wish we had a better person carrying the banner this time.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #90
98. Yes, yes, and yes. I think Hillary Clinton sqaundered an enormous
opportunity.

She had the cash and the profile to sculpt a campaign on her own terms. She dropped the ball by hiring her husband's political chums, by cozying up to Rupert Murdoch, by ok'ing the surrogate hit jobs, and by failing to associate herself with the things tha made her interesting in the early going -- her alignment with the spirit and example of Eleanor Roosevelt, for instance, and especially, her humane world view in IT TAKES A VILLAGE.

Where is THAT woman? I don't see her anyplace.

Our society has a long road ahead before it comes to terms with discrimination based on age, sex, gender, race, and (especially) income. Europe would be a stronger model, but we're too brash a young nation to take advice from 'Old Europe.' And that's our loss.

They could teach us a great deal.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. Now lets be blunt here
If a radio host used the equivalent terms about Obama even once, not for hours on end, but once, his liberal audience would be gone. That is the dynamic that bothers more than a few Clinton supporters. Thanks for pointing this out.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. "more than a few Clinton supporters." think of who the voters are in the US.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
76. The terms, and the language, is wrong, for sure.
And yes, in some ways it's still more acceptable to use language that's demeaning to women.

I don't think this affects her nearly so much as it *reflects* on the speaker, however.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Did you protest
by mail or phone?
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. Oh yeah, that would make a difference. LMAO. n/t
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. That's just nasty all around.
I'm an Obama supporter but there is no justification for that. Hard to believe he could maintain an audience with that.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's rude and disgusting behavior but I don't think it's sexist.
Sexism is either discrimination based on gender alone or the belief that someone's inferior based on gender or shows inferior traits because of their gender. If he said she was obviously a bad driver because she was a woman, that would be sexist. He obviously disagrees with her actions, but not because of her gender. True, "broad" and "witch" can only be used to describe women, but they aren't sexist anymore than calling a man a "beefcake" or "Don Juan."

I don't like the verbiage he uses at all nor am I defending it. But I keep seeing the word "sexism" thrown around whenever a person puts Sen. Clinton down and the two are just not equal. All sexist comments are rude and demeaning but not all rude and demeaning comments are sexist. I've just been trying to point this difference out whenever I see it.

Nonetheless, I can't believe this guy is still on the radio - nor can I believe he's a liberal. He's quite a jerk (I'll refrain from using stronger language, he's already used enough for all of us).
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journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. There's this "entertainment" reporter who comes on Tom Joyner's show and refers to her as "Bill's
baby mamma."

His name is Huggie Low Down. He comes on Tom Joyner's show every day for supposed entertainment gossip, but he always refers to Sen. Clinton as "Bill's baby mamma."

I just shake my head in digust.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
61. To some women with ambition are an affront- oppression is oppression
is oppression.

Here is an example of total oppresive lies:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803120005

The Sally Quinn blame the wife club, :yuck:
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Nitrogenica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. Childish, and there's no need for people like Ray Taliafero.
He's a waste of public airwaves, just like Rush, SLanthead, and O'Lielly are.

Just like most right wing hate radio is.

Blech!
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. I hate that. AND YES IT IS TOTALLY SEXIST.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 06:21 PM by undeterred
Its bad enough when Republican men do it, but when Democrats/liberals do it, I am flabergasted. It is still a slap in the face to all women.

What Hillary decided to do in response to Bill's philandering has absolutely nothing to do with her worthiness as a politician. The ability to forgive a spouse is not a weakness- it is a strength. No one can look at HRC and see a downtrodden woman taken advantage of by her husband.

Men still don't get it. THAT MEANS YOU DU MEN TOO.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. That's correct and it doesn't help either candidate either.
This kind of language will NOT get more votes for Obama.

It is also, not the way he speaks.

"All these Hillary-as-Victim-of-sexism posts reduce her to a squawking hen. Let's make that a shrieking, harping, histrionic, and hysterical sqauwking hen." -old caruso
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
62. OLD CRUSOE YOU ARE A SEXIST PIG
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 07:49 PM by undeterred
I will start calling you OINK! :spank:
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. What's New
Just because you're a member of a minority doesn't mean you can't be a bigot... I have heard the most bigoted vitiol come out of the mouth of gays, African Americans, Latinos, Jews, Asians, et cetera...It's always easy to demonize the "other"...
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
55. What's new is the BO will need votes to win- it's not a zero sum game
That's what's new.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
25. I listen to Ray sometimes too
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 06:46 PM by Upton
if I happen to be up in the middle of the night that is. If you've listened to Ray as long as you claim, then you also know he's never been one to pull his punches. Don't listen to him anymore if his style has become offensive to you. I like his style, I think some members of the Democratic party have taken this PC stuff way too far, to the party's detriment.

You do realize that Karel, John Rothman and Christine Craft all support Hillary so it's not as if KGO doesn't have it's Clinton backers. Let me just add, that putting such a pillar of the progressive community, as Ray, up for ridicule in a public forum by taking his words out of context is grossly unfair.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Sexist Comments Are Never Acceptable
Ditto for racist, homophobic, xenophobic, and anti-semetic and other bigoted comments...

Bigots suck!
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. For some people,loving Obama requires hating Hillary.
Underneath hate, almost always, is fear.

Many Obama supporters hate Hillary because they fear her; she represents a threat to them.

Like most fear, this one is irrational.

But being "irrational" is no bar to having a strong political opinion.

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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. True, so true.

And we were hearing it a decade ago---from RWers.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
54. It seems more important to destroy Hilary than to win votes for BO.
I don't get it. Even if BO wins the primary- he will need the Democrats who have been supporters of the other Democrat- Sen. Clinton.
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. The worst sexism in regards to Hillary Clinton has been read on this forum.
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. Thanks Mike
You know - with voices and supporters like you, Obama could actually win and win big with a united party behind him.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
33. another victim thread
dont take a crazy talk show hosts and apply his actions to me.


If hes gone nuts, stop listening or complain but dont drag your trash in hear and blame us for it.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. "Winning ugly" in the primary race
could add up to losing in the GE - and that won't be pretty. Sadly, it appears that some on both sides of this primary are either in denial of this fact, or simply don't care :'(
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
56. It's not about winning- it's about "beating" Hilary- seems they don't care
whether the party comes together or not for the GE.

It's about humiliating the other Democratic candidate.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #56
71. This is sad because
no matter which one of the two (highly intelligent, qualified, brilliant, attractive YES I MEAN THIS) candidates is chosen, this approach will hurt the Democrats in November. On that note, kudos to the OP for working to raise the tone and heal the widening rift. <3
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. That's it..you're
on Ignore..have ya got a hernia yet, mike?
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
41. Well you know...the woman had the nerve to run against a man. She should know better.
she should "accept that the time for a female president must wait a while longer."

Because heaven forbid a woman ever get to get anywhere in this country.


This is what makes me so frustrated about this election. Racism is considered way worse then the sexism.

Women have been second class citizens for a long time. It took us 73 years and more than a few women nearly dying (at least in the US, the Brits actually had some women die) to get our right to vote secured. Before that the ladies had to fight for even to be considered their own person after marriage. We have been fighting for centuries to not be considered nothing more than a woman. And yet...."accept that the time for a female president must wait a while longer."

No. The Time Can Be Now.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. Uppity women--oh no!!! LMAO! n/t
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #58
69. yep...damn us all to heck for overreaching.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #41
78. I share your frustrations, I truly do. But I also don't think the
objections to Clinton are largely about her gender. I think she's a particularly objectionable figure, and she's done little during this campaign to show us differently.

I spent years defending her from those whose hate of anything Clinton handily extended into blatant digs at women in politics or was conveniently exercised by sexist remarks. I still think the sexism in this case is just a cover for the deeper dislike of this woman in particular.

I know I've been really saddened by the way she and her campaign have behaved. I hoped for much better. I hoped for a no-lose situation where we had a winner, regardless. Someone I could enthusiastically support, regardless. She's worn that right away for me. I have a sour taste in my mouth, and I doubt it's going to go away now any time soon.

I'm concerned about raising Hillary Clinton to the level of a feminist icon. I don't want her representing all the hopes of women in government or in our society at large. We've got better to offer, and I hope we continue to offer them.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #78
99. The two best known icons for women were Jackie Onassis and Princess Diana
I welcome the fact that at least Senator Clinton went on her own with regards to being a senator and has done very well as a credible candidate for Prez
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #99
100. I suppose
If you're talking sort of pop culture icons. I think there have been some amazing women in politics and journalism who I think far surpass Clinton as role models.

Clinton is totally a credible candidate for president - I don't dispute that in the least. But given her behavior wrt the IWR and then during this campaign, I dislike her. She's not the person I'd like to see leading us, and I don't think her leadership will represent any significant change from what we've been living with, frankly.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
42. you should have heard what they called Margaret Thatcher former UK PM
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 07:04 PM by bambino
most of them wanted to hang, draw and quarter Maraget Thatcher and put her head on a spike. I think Hillary is doing OK so far in terms of sexist statements.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. That is because Thatcherism is so bloody awful.
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Lets hope Hillary wouldn't be quite so bad
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #47
68. No, Senator Clinton is so much more right wing there is no comparison.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. One DU poster has threatened Hillary
with "the Marie Antoinette treatement." (And no, don't ask for a link. The post was finally removed after several hours and multiple alerts.) Others have posted pictures showing her burned at the stake and have threatened violence at the convention. As far as I can tell, they're all still with us.

And sexism is alive and well at DU.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Sexist language will not get more votes out for Sen. Obama n/t
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
66. Somehow, that is not difficult for me to believe.
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #48
70. It's a shame Skinner allows this.
Poster should have been banned immediately.
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abq e streeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
49. I'm not familiar with Mr. Taliafero, but I find his language disturbing
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 07:26 PM by abq e streeter
to say the least. I am an Obama supporter ( by default; he was not my first, second, or third original choice) and dislike Hillary more and more as the campaign goes on, but these kind of crude personal attacks have no place coming from our side. This kind of slime should remain the province of the republicans, the natural home of racism, sexism and general ignorance and intolerance.. It breaks my heart to see the level to which much of our intra-party disagreements have sunk, and as just one individual, insignificant citizen, I want to say that I want to have nothing to do with this type of discourse.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
53. That's unacceptable. I have never heard of him.
Hope never to hear him here. :thumbsdown:
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Pisces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. I dislike her for myriad of things she has done in the last few months.
She has implied Obama was a muslim
lied about Bosnia
Used repug dirty tricks in Ohio and Texas
Used 3 am fearmongering ad
accepted the help of Rush Limbaugh
Played the race card in SC
Is now playing to her racist base with Bill's help
Endorsed McCain
Offered the VP position to Obama when she was losing
Lied and perpetuated lie about Nafta
The list of deceptive, and repugnant things she has done in this campaign are endless. She is dividing the party along racial lines. She has lost and refuses to concede. I dislike her for these reasons. I could care less about Monica Lewinsky. She has become a terrible person, and I this is a person that use to like her and use to love Bill.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Like Obama endores Reagan you mean?
Or that she is running for President and fighting for the position?

Don't worry the chickens will come home to roooooost.
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SwampG8r Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #64
91. not equateable
you cant equate talking about the ability of a dead president to change america
(reagan)
with endorsing the opposing parties candidate for public office over a member of your own party
it is so apples and oranges that the falsity of the comparison
is itself a display of poor judgement
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:45 PM
Response to Original message
59. I agree Mike...over the line. Well over the line.
No need for this stuff at all. I wish people would rein in their emotions and fucking think.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
63. There is no sexim she has just lost and won't accept it...
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Umbram Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
67. Those are deplorable and mostly sexist comments
I don't think "a terrible person" is sexist though, certainly the rest are.

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dusmcj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
72. 60s rads weren't always liberated men
A lot were in "The Movement" for the pussy and the pot, and the ones who were committed still frequently expected their "Old Lady" to cook & clean, cause that's what their own mommies had done for their little boys. I can only be thankful for the good fortune to be of a slightly later generation where these early fighters with all their flaws, and their female comrades, had made the advances we could enjoy and build on. But they weren't perfect, not by a long shot.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. Totally agree with you. That's wrong and there's just no way to see
it as ok.

I'm not a Clinton supporter, but I loathe these sort of things. Frankly, I think there are enough *substantive* things with which to argue against her nomination. No one has to go to childish, low, insulting and demeaning comments like that.

He does himself, and he does Obama, his candidate, no favors with that. It should stop, right away.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
74. Hillary and Bill hurt a lot of people when they employed that Southern Strategy
in SC. People are still angry. His behavior does seem unprofessional though.
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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. That "southern strategy" lie about the Clinton's being racist, it's really called "swiftboating"
and you continue the tradition.
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
80. I agree, but you do know if Hillary gets the nomination, that and more
will be thrown at them

That is why with all the baggage, whether justified or not, it amazed me why she would even run

There are plenty of qualified candidates of all genders, without the controversy

It will get a lot worse if she gets the nomination, and it won't be easy for Obama either, because of the swift boating they will be doing


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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
82. K&R
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
84. Yep, that's awful. I just hope you take issue with all the race-baiting against Obama.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:28 AM
Response to Original message
88. I'll agree with that
maybe we should all get his e-mail address and let him know how we feel.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
89. That's nothing compared to the garbage Obamanoids post right here in this forum about her.
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Mezzo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
93. Follow OBama's example? Just act like a Republican from 1994...HARRY AND LOUISE. nt
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
94. Lots of men (and some women) I used to respect are like this now.
We are handing the GE to McCain on a silver platter, and will richly deserve the consequences.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
96. K&R
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