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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:01 PM
Original message
Hillary's Amazing Adventures in Bosnia (corraborated by First Lady schedule)
Here are the videos for anyone who hasn't seen them:

Hillary in Tuzla: The Tale of Bosnian Sniper Fire (TRAILER)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It6JN7ALF7Y

Hillary Clinton Lies About Her Bosnia Trip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOsGo_HWP-c

Meredith Vieira Interviews Hillary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddgom0QWvLs

Here's the picture

Reporter: There have been different accounts of your trip to Bosnia, and I was wondering if you could clarify. You recall ducking under sniper fire but Sinbad, in his account, who was on the trip, he says the most dangerous part was remembering where he was going to eat next.

Hillary: Sinbad's a comedian... He's a comedian.

Reporter: So do you actually recall fleeing gunfire?

Hillary: When we were flying into Bosnia we had to uh, part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored. I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who have been on a C-17 or C-130 know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire. There was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars. Now that is what happened.

Let's be clear. There was ONE C-17 landing into Bosnia. The only place that had a landing strip large enough to land was Tuzla so that invalidates any CYA lie that there were multiple C-17 landings. There were two short 15 minute trips to Camp Alicia and Camp Bedrock, per her schedule, but they were by helicopter and there were no greeting ceremonies scheduled at those camps. THE only greeting ceremony scheduled was at Tuzla, immediately upon landing and getting off the C17 so it's clear where the lie is. There's NO wiggle room on this one.

LIE

Reporter: So do you actually recall fleeing gunfire?

Hillary: When we were flying into Bosnia we had to uh, part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored. I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver.

Uh huh.

FACT

AP reported that on the plane into Bosnia from Germany: "Mrs. Clinton chatted with journalists and crewmen during the 90-minute flight, wandering around the spacious plane in a black pantsuit a contrast to the blue jeans and other road-ready clothes worn by most everybody else on the plane.

"The first lady spent quite a bit of time in the cockpit, with pilot Cheryl Beineke, one of just four female C-17 pilots in the U.S. Air Force."

http://www.kansascity.com/445/story/535119.html

"Moved into the cockpit" because the situation was so dangerous. :rofl: We can stick a fork in that one.


Sinbad, Sheryl and Chelsea were fearfully cowering in the back of the plane with security, the crew and the journalists so they're not visible in this shot.


Here are two articles from the time.

...

According to the first ladys personal schedule detailing the trip, just two of the more than 11,000 official pages of personal
schedules released today, this is what the day looked like:

    Clinton landed at Tuzla Air Base at 8:45 a.m. on March 25, 1996. She was greeted by Bosnian officials and a seven-year-old
    Bosnian girl whose name was redacted, and a 7th grade class. The girl read Clinton a poem. Clinton and her aides had a 10-minute
    meeting with acting Bosnia President Ejup Ganic and his aides. There was an hour-long notables roundtable moderated by then-
    Ambassador John Menzies followed by a 30-minute closed-door meeting with the heads of unnamed non-governmental
    organizations, and a 30-minute closed door meeting with military officials.

    The first lady also toured Camp Alicia, ate lunch with the troops, toured Camp Bedrock, attended the USO show where the
    aforementioned Sinbad and musician Sheryl Crow (misspelled Crowe in the schedule) performed, followed by an hour visit at the
    generals house before it was wheels up at 5:45 p.m. and Clinton was on her way to Italy. The schedule doesnt indicate Sinbad
    was with Clinton at any of the meetings or events outside of the USO performance. There is no mention of security threats.

    ...

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/03/19/clintons-schedule-doesnt-settle-sinbad-dispute/?mod=googlenews_wsj


Response by G.I.'s Mixed As Hillary Clinton Visits

By MIKE O'CONNOR
Published: March 26, 1996

Hillary Rodham Clinton charmed American troops at a U.S.O. show here, but it didn't hurt that the singer Sheryl Crow and the
comedian Sinbad were also on the stage.

In her appearance at Tuzla Air Base, the First Lady told a couple of thousand of the 19,300 Americans serving in Bosnia that they
were using military power to advance United States interests and values. She said they were part of "the kind of peacekeeping
mission every American should be proud of and support."

...

At another camp, named Alicia, from where 600 soldiers in the First Squadron, Fourth Cavalry patrol the zone of separation between
the Bosnian Government and Bosnian Serb armies, many soldiers crowded in to see Mrs. Clinton and her daughter, Chelsea.

When they walked through the camp, there was an almost constant clicking and whirring as soldiers took photographs.

...

Another soldier said he thought that it was all right for Mrs. Clinton to visit, but "everyone really wants to see Sheryl Crow and
Sinbad."

Mrs. Clinton's message that American interests and moral values are at stake in Bosnia is not universally accepted among the
people she came to thank.

Some soldiers, especially those living in the worst conditions or those whose duties do not allow them to see many of the Bosnians
who benefit from their efforts, say they do not fully understand the objective here.

"I joined the Army to defend my country," said Sgt. Michael Tucker, one of the friends of Sergeant Kennedy. "There's no one
threatening America here, and we don't have a fight here."

...

Asked what he would like to tell Mrs. Clinton about his assignment, Specialist Ingersoll, of Williston, N.D., said, "I wouldn't talk to her, because I'd probably say something rude."

"Unless she can get us sent back home, there's not much she can do for us," he said, wiping rain from his face. "When she leaves,
she'll go back to her family, maybe have a drink, and relax. We can't do any of that."

Specialist Johnavan agreed: "That's right. She'll be there and we'll be here."

...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0DE3D61139F935A15750C0A960958260


The soldiers who were there are having a field day with this whopper!

...

Ever since Barack Obama suggested Hillary Clinton's eight years as first lady were a glorified tea party a few days back, she's
looked for an opening to strike back.

On Saturday night in Dubuque she pounced, arguing she risked her life on White House missions in the 1990s, including a hair-
raising flight into Bosnia that ended in a "corkscrew" landing and a sprint off the tarmac to dodge snipers. ...

It turns out that Clinton wasn't quite flying solo into harm's way that day.

She was, in fact, leading a goodwill entourage that included baggy-pants funnyman Sinbad, singer Sheryl Crow and Clinton's
daughter, Chelsea, then 15, according to an account of the March 1995 trip in her autobiography "Living History."

    I noticed a couple of things right off the bat. First, she has the year wrong. I was an MP in the Army during that time and
    happened to be assigned to 2nd Platoon, 501st MP CO which supported the 1st Armored Division in Baumholder, Germany. Her trip
    couldn't have taken place in March, 1995 because we didn't go into Bosnia until December 1995. The
    Dayton Peace Accords opened up the door for us to go in. Then
    President Clinton came to Baumholder in December to deliver his message that he was sending us in and that we were to lose Christmas, which
    is exactly what we did.

    Madam Clinton and her group actually came to Baumholder on their way down range and it was in March of 1996.

    Regarding her claim of "dodging sniper fire", the airbase she landed at was Eagle Base located in Tuzla Bosnia. At the time it was
    the most fortified compound in the country. She flew onto the airbase in a C-17 and snipers where the least of her, or anyone elses
    problems. She even took the time to give a speech (presumably after she dodged the snipers)

    This transcript is from PBS and is a discusion panel debating her
    image, and whether the trip helped it any. There was a clip shown on the show and here remarks are excerpted below (again, notice
    the date)

      ELIZABETH FARNSWORTH: First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton got a break last week from the slings and arrows of
      Whitewater and other misfortunes. She took a nine-day trip to Germany, Bosnia- Herzegovina, Italy, Turkey, and Greece with her
      16-year-old daughter, Chelsea. After touring remote outposts in Bosnia, the First Lady thanked cheering U.S. soldiers in Tuzla for
      providing a good example to the Bosnians.

      HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON: There is no better example in the world of what a multiethnic, multiracial, multicultural team means
      in the United States military. You look around at the men and women in this room, you're letting people who have hated each other,
      who have killed each other know there is another way. Look to America. And that's what I thank you for. (cheers and applause)

    The cheering soldiers, by the way, were ordered to be there.

    http://www.mangledcat.com/archives/000511.html


And to top it all off? It's all confirmed in the newly released "First Lady Schedules" she didn't want released. The trip went without a hitch and stayed on schedule the entire time. Here's the schedule for that trip.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well I'll give her this: she's funnier than Sinbad.
Great post! :rofl:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. She cracks me up when she's not scaring the living daylights out of me
It's fascinating to analyze how she embellished all the details and STILL got the core of the story wrong. Just like her IWR vote if you ask me.

Funnier than Sinbad lol :rofl:
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
77. 2268 Diggs help "digg" this up so MSM will get it
for Hillary in Tuzla: The Tale of Bosnian Sniper Fire!

go here to DIGG this story:
http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Hillary_in_Tuzla_The_Tale_of_Bosnian_Sniper_Fire_TRAILER
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #77
96. How does DIGG work? She's so busted.
I'm reading from of the comments there and she's so busted.

Tuzla was a fortified base. It was the hub where all incomming/outgoing military personel went through of all multinational forces. It was safer than Detroit. I don't ever remember there being sniper fire in Tuzla. What a lying sack of shit.


Wow, that's quite an amazing lie. I am from Tuzla and I remember seeing that exact footage on Bosnian TV. Obama is a huge favorite among the Bosnian crowd living in America, and from the opinions I've heard, it is mostly because he has Muslim ties and he can fix the distorted and discriminative image Muslims are given in the country today. Therefore, this video should only strengthen those views and hopefully mainstream media can pick up on this. Some horrible things have happened in Bosnia, and I don't think it's right that she is using my country and the events that have occurred to gain pity and compassion from voters.


This video is glorious. If you are interested at all in sinking Clinton's candidacy, link this Digg at any and all of the forums that you frequent and ensure that this gets digged to the front page. The media can't ignore a frenzy.


What's troubling to me is how straight-faced and *detailed* the lie is.


The level of detail is for two reasons:
1. Liars try to add as much detail as possible, as it makes the lie more believable.
2. Hillary going into detail regarding the capabilities of the C-17 and C-130 aircraft (she does this in some of the other YouTube videos of this same press conference) is meant as a public show of her "vast" military knowledge and qualifications for Commander In Chief.

Pathetic.


Sure don't want her answering the phone at 3 am or any other time, nor do I want her finger on the button of destruction. 35 years of experience? Would someone please break that down for me? She didn't have to take this tack. Had she just played fair and told the truth, she could at least have saved their "legacy."

Which brings us back to the wisdom of the 22nd amendment to the constitution.


Oh man, now, its hard to look at that and think, oh yeah, that was taken out of context. She was pretty clear on what she was talking about .. the evidence doesn't support her lies however. She should just hand in the towel. Someone this unprincipled should not be running for office, let alone the presidency.


The real question is whether or not the media will give this BULLSHIT the same coverage that the Jermiah Wright crap got? I mean, Obama didn't even SAY that stuff and he was crucified for a week, but this crap comes straight out of Clinton's mouth and I haven't seen one discussion of it or the North Ireland claim on any of the cable news stations. Obama needs his surrogates to hit this hard on Monday after his vacation.


When will politicians learn that they can no longer rewrite history in their favor, as they used to be able to do so easily? Do we really want a president who doesn't understand technology any better than this?


STOP THE LIES!!!!


For the Chrissakes, I hope America is tired of electing boldfaced liars.


I don't know if she's lying on purpose though. Think about it, is she really sooooo stupid as to make up an event that could so easily be verified as false? Especially considering when she was first lady, cameras were following her everywhere.

Then again, this could speak to a bigger issue that Hillary thinks Americans are so stupid that they're not gonna fact check.


Not only has Hillary been caught in a flat-out lie, the lie never made sense to begin with. The video shows that her daughter Chelsea, then 16-years old, accompanied her. Are we really to believe that Bill and Hillary had their daughter go into a "hot zone" that required running and ducking sniper fire? It's beyond belief.

Second, since when does ducking sniper fire make someone a foreign policy expert or make someone qualified for Commander-in-Chief? The lie doesn't even serve its intended purpose.


More proof how pathetic the American media is. Spend weeks pulling comments out of context from Obama's long-retired former pastor, but completely gloss over Hillary's bold-faced lies.

Go to Europe, and she's ridiculed over this blatant lie, but in America, she knows nobody will ever hear about it. The only reason she was willing to lie about this in the first place is her confidence in the stupidity of the American media.

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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #96
115. Olbermann covering Hillary's Tuzla Sniper Fire LIE now
Olbermann said something about it a minute ago, now they've gone to commercial.

Stay tuned.

Looks like the digging of this story helped!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #115
117. Thanks. I rushed home to see this! He's covering it now where I am
"There is peace now"

He's doing a great job!
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. I just dont understand why she had to like like this.
It just seems so amauteurish what she did, to lie like she did and think nobody would find out.
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It was part of the script
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Something I've noticed about her whole campaign:
She's talking like there's no internets.

Obama seems VERY aware of the internet and VERY aware that anything he says is going to be fact-checked, but not so the Clintons. Ditto for consistency of message.

Like, during the debate when she said "change you can Xerox" followed by "I am honored to be here" did she not think that those two things would look wierd next to each other? :shrug:
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. I know -- I'm more puzzled than anything.
Everything they've both said has been surgically dissected and researched on the internets - I don't understand why she thought this might escape scrutiny.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #30
94. why do you guys say "internets" instead of "internet"?
Why the added "s"?
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. We're paying homage to our Commander in Chief:
Bush: "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004


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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I had a kid brother like that and she reminds me of him
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:31 PM by Catherina
except that he grew out of it.

This is one of my favorite HRC cartoons

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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here's another link for ya!
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. So which is it, wlucinda?
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:14 PM by Drunken Irishman
She can't get her story straight? She had to duck and cover, but it wasn't when she flew into Tuzla? That's her claim, that when she flew in, she was at risk of being sniped and had to run from the plane to the car with her head lowered because of that threat. That the ceremony they had PLANNED was canceled because of the risk -- even though her own daughter and a 7-year old girl were there on the tarmac. There was no sniper threat, however. Bringing up an entirely different aspect of that trip, which has a photo of her WAVING AND SMILING (not ducking and running) does not maker her story any more truthful.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Not quite good enough. The little detail about the C17 trips that spin up
Nice try but no cigar, and anyone who knows anything about where C17s land knows that.

Second trip up is that the welcoming ceremony was only scheduled for the first stop in Tuzla.

Y'all can spin it as much as you want but it's still not gonna make any yarn.
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. And nowhere in that report does it say she had to run for cover.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:24 PM by Drunken Irishman
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zabet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. Don't mind them wlucinda,
it is just another negative post
smearing a democratic candidate by
an Obama supporter, you know, what
the Clinton supporters always get
accused of doing.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
75. Hillary smeared herself by telling some unbelievable whoppers. n/t
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #17
109. she wouldn't have been allowed to go in if she had to run to beat
snipers. don't believe me. don't believe the written and filmed record. don't believe the actual soldiers there. stay in delusion. it helps her cause so much. :sarcasm:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
97. I think you're right wlucinda. I apologize. There was a sniper


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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's what I don't get (for starters): If they were being fired upon, why would everyone be told to
*sit on* their bullet-proof vests? That would only make sense if the snipers were directly under the plane, the plane was not moving (in which case, it
would have to be a helicopter and not a C-17) and the snipers were shooting straight up, into their butts!

Otherwise, why wouldn't they be told to put their bullet-proof vests ON?



:shrug: :hi:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. ROFL!
*sit on* their bullet-proof vests indeed. That's another good one.

There are so many holes in her story. The soldiers are laughing their heads off and made a special page called

Lying Is Stupid When The Truth Is So Easy To Find

That place was so safe that in an article about Bill's visit a few months later they said the soldiers called it DISNEYLAND!

Some soldiers said that in visiting Eagle Base, Mr. Clinton was not getting a true picture of life in the field, where troops must shut off their kerosene heaters on even the coldest nights for fear of starting a fire.

"This right here is Disneyland," said Pfc. Jimmy Marcom, a 20-year-old from Dallas, as he cast a wistful eye around Club 21, with its clean concrete floor, its walls covered with camouflage netting and holiday greetings, and its wooden cutout of Santa and his sleigh. "I would love to be in this base camp."

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9901E2D6153EF930A15751C1A961958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print



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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Snappy Salute!
LOVE the soldier recounts... hadn't seen any of them, yet. :-)
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. Oh, shite
I hadn't thought of that!!!!

Flotation devices? Hell, I dunno.

:rofl:
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quantass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #25
83. ,
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nuthin' Quite Like the Great Obama RW Smear Machine
MARKOVICI, Bosnia-Herzegovina - Protected by sharpshooters, Hillary Rodham Clinton swooped into a military zone by Black Hawk helicopter Monday to deliver a personal "thank you, thank you, thank you" to U.S. troops.

"They're making a difference," the first lady said of the 18,500 Americans working as peacekeepers in Bosnia.

Mrs. Clinton became the first presidential spouse since Eleanor Roosevelt to make such an extensive trip into what can be considered a hostile area, though others have visited hot spots.


http://sundaygazettemail.com/News/200803110472
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Are you missing something?
She said she didn't have a formal greeting because of live fire, but there she was at the formal greeting.

Care to explain what I might be missing?
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Crisco, show me a quote where it says the following.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:26 PM by Drunken Irishman
A ceremony was canceled and she had to run from the plane to the car to avoid sniper fire, which Clinton claimed in her original story. The fact is, the ceremny in Tuzla WENT ON AS PLANNED -- even her own daughter was there -- and they did not have to run from the plane to the car. And, from what I see, there was no plane involved in her trip to the military zone, it was a helicopter. This is not the same story Clinton was discussing when she lied about the snipers.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
27. Sorry. Landed into Bosnia in a C-17.
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:44 PM by Catherina
The helicopter landing is the one where she had to walk through a minefield :rofl:

When we were flying into Bosnia we had to uh, part of the reason we were in the C-17 is because part of it is armored. I was moved up into the cockpit. Everyone else was told to sit on their bullet proof vests. We came in in an evasive maneuver. Those of you who have been on a C-17 or C-130 know that one of their great characteristics is that they can take off very quickly and they can maneuver agilely to avoid incoming fire. There was no greeting ceremony and we were basically told to run to our cars. Now that is what happened.


And let's not forget that she added "We basically were told to run to our cars,"
What cars are these? http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/FirstLady_Schedule_1996_Mar_25.pdf


You just gotta love the final flourish, "Now that is what happened", of someone who KNOWS they just got caught telling a little fib.
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Scurrilous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. K & R
:thumbsup:
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Alexander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
13. Interesting how not a single Hillary supporter can defend her lie on this issue.
In fact, they mostly avoid threads about her Bosnia trip altogether.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
49. The running defense seems to be "Nobody is paying attention."
Or, in other words, pinning false hopes on the "nobody will ever hear about this" tip.

Interesting, isn't it?
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why do you think this need a 200th thread?
Did someone mention McClurkin, Pastor Wright, or Rezko?
:hi:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
38. Thick heads
I know it stings MethuenProgressive, but no one really cares about McClurkin, Pastor Wright, or Rezko.

Everytime you guys try one of those, her stock sinks and Obama's rises. They're all scurrilous attacks which the exception of McClurkin where I felt people had a genuine right to be offended.

But go for, start a thread on one of them. It's lovely as confirmation for thinking voters that all you have on Obama are the same old sour grapes while Clinton provides a new story everyday :hi:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. "no one really cares about McClurkin, Pastor Wright, or Rezko"
"no one"? Interesting spin.
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BumRushDaShow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
How many more of these fabricated tales exist?
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
20. Hey, Catherina... hope you "get" my new avatar.
<----------- }(
<----------- }(
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
40. Rofl!
That's so appropriate :rofl:

I can't believe I defended Hillary for years. I feel like calling up everyone I ever beat up for her and apologizing.

The cartoonists are going to have a field day with this one.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. I support Obama, but where are we going with this? Just drop it, we're winning.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Truthiness Matters
This Bosnia thing is damned relevant, if you ask me. It's not a smear, it's not a "swiftboat." It's taking the candidate's own words, and comparing them to actual events as they happened.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. Character and experience
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 06:32 PM by Catherina
We may be winning now but we haven't won until it's over.


Hillary is trying to convince people that she participated significantly as a stealth ambassador who went on dangerous and important missions for our country. But she didn't so she's fabricating a resume to convince people she's great Presidential material. She's clearly not and it should terrify us that she thinks people will believe that whopper. It should terrify us even more that she doesn't want people criticizing that fabrication.

Haven't we had enough of these big whoppers that are so easily verified? Like the one about the WMDs?
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futureliveshere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R...n/t
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. The first two paragraphs of this NYT article are rather devastating, as well...
... to her claims of "35 years of experience," too. Right in the thick of it, eh?

Clinton's schedules offer chance to test assertions - NYT

When the World Trade Center was attacked for the first time on Feb. 26, 1993, President Bill Clinton flew to New York to be briefed on the attack and the response by city, state and federal authorities. According to newly released White House calendars of Senator Hillary Rodham Clintons time as first lady, Mrs. Clinton stayed behind in Washington to attend a photo shoot with Parade magazine and a performance of Jesus Christ Superstar.

Seven years later, in October 2000, Mr. and Mrs. Clinton were enjoying a quiet weekend at their new home in Chappaqua, N.Y., when word came that the Cole, an American destroyer, had been attacked in a Yemen port. Mr. Clinton rushed back to the White House to deal with the crisis. Mrs. Clinton returned to the campaign trail in her run for the Senate.
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
29. This is spin. She didn't lie.
Others have already posted legitimate newspaper reports that she was in several dangorous situations, but they were not photo ops. Either out of ignorance or deceitfulness some dishonest Obama fans are manufacturing the truth. If Clinton's smart, she'll use this deceit in one of her ads to try to discredit the Obama campaign. But, I don't think she's smart.
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. There was no sniper fire, there was no cancelled meeting. She said there was
She did lie. Just because the area was generally considered dangerous doesn't mean she experienced any of it. The point is, what she said happened, didn't happen.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. I agree.
I don't think she's as smart as I thought she was, either. :-)
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PM7nj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. None of those reports support her claim of being shot at.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #29
48. It's really too bad this one's on film
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 06:06 PM by Catherina
Just think of the ordeal the nation would have been spared (Gore vs Bush 2000) if the Clintons knew how to tell the truth.

Do you really want to go down that road again?

I love how you parse your words. This story isn't about her being in "in several dangerous situations". This story is about the ONE dangerous situation that wasn't and it's the one SHE choose to make her weak case. If you need to blame someone, blame Hillary and her bad embroidery skills.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Somebody, please stop her.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
35. Those obsessing with this look like fools
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 05:47 PM by OzarkDem
Its the same routine - attack, lie, create some bs talking points, then when the truth comes out later you ignore it.

You looks like wild eyed, woman-hating one trick ponies.

Grow up.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Talking points? Lies?
You seem to have Clinton's words confused with this post.

And enough with your "grow up" admonitions. We're all adults here. Behave like one.
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Its a familiar pattern
Lie, inflame, debunk, ignore.

Guess what, no one outside of these forums is paying any attention.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. Do you know anybody?
Because, Gosh, I do, and a lot of people in real, actual life are paying loads of attention in the most exciting primary of our lifetimes.

Historic turnout, record-smashing fundraising, everyone is talking, Ozark. If nobody was talking, is your contention that your candidate would be doing better?

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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. They're interested in the primary
not in the faux scandal of the hour ginned up against Clinton.

Real people are more interested in how the candidates plan to deal with problems facing our country and in which one is better prepared and experienced to lead.

They're not paying attention to the silly faux scandal crap. Most aren't even aware of it.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. You're not addressing why Clinton lied about that Bosnia landing/ceremonial welcoming commitee.
They are paying attention. It's not a faux scandal, and it's not ginned up. It's quite real, it speaks to "honesty and integrity," and it boggles my mind why someone as brilliant as Senator Clinton chose to lie about it in the first place.

I'll get back to you during the next news cycle to address your "most aren't even aware of it" contention.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #35
50. Did Clinton lie about that Bosnia landing and the welcoming ceremony being canceled, Ozark?
Did she?

And if I question what on earth would compel her to lie about that, I'm suddenly a "woman-hater?" I'm self-loathing?

Is that the best you can do? Why aren't you even remotely concerned or troubled by a bald-faced lie that came from the candidate herself for no apparent reason whatsoever?
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Ozark is like Sinbad, "a comedian you know"
Just "take him at his word" :rofl:
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
80. "Woman-hating."
:eyes:

You have lost all credibility, ozarkdem. I'd put you on ignore, but the comedic value of your posts is too good to miss. :-)
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. The Clinton campaign just released this photo of Hillary arriving in Tuzla:
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
72. Lol! Xeroxed? n/t
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
42. Dukakis in a tank
She brought it on herself, running with the shopworn Republican narrative that PERIL sits on our doorstep and it takes someone with chest-thumping brass to face it down. The 3am calls, sidling up to McCain as a measure of CinC "experience", a careening descent into the sniper's gallery... it makes her look like one of those pitiable warrior wannabes.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. F'n A!
Wish I could K&R a post within a thread, because yours deserves it.

This is what refusing to atone for the IWR vote looks like. This is what the DLC looks like. This is what Kyl-Lieberman looks like. She has nothing to complain about... she made that bed, and yes, reality sucks.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. Thanks, VolcanoJen
The gobstopping irony is that she's wound up playing GHWB to Obama's Bill in this campaign, and getting about as much traction. That she and her hubby decided to forget their REAL experiences and stump as National Security State martinets is astounding to me.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #42
54. I have no pity either. She opened the floodgates and now doesn't like it
There are 4000 dead US soldiers and millions of dead Iraqis, not to mentioned all the lives destroyed by the kind of lies these people tell.

No more.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #42
67. Short and to the point
You are quite right, sir.
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
76. Exactly!
:applause:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
123. #42 & #52
:thumbsup:

Interesting observations.
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
51. K/R
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
55. Hillary, you aren't Rambo. Lies are unbecoming.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. The blatant lie and then expecting people to believe it
is what upsets me the most. Part of me is cracking up about this story but the laughter stops when I think of the lies the current administration told and how people went along with it.

While we're sitting here typing soldiers are dying over there for lies like this. Thanks Elrond. Here's to change :toast:
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Here's to change...indeed.
:pals:
You know what this whole thing reminds me of?
Chimpy McFlightsuit.
Far, far too much of that.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. Oh... How cruel to remind me
What a horrible memory. Mission Accomplished

And now is how many dead soldiers later? :pals: Thank you so much
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
57. Catherina, Thanks for posting this.
:kick: & R
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. You're welcome
It was hard to sit through all the spin for a candidate who's getting caught fabricating her resume.
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. Another kick for a good post
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
59. K&R
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 07:06 PM by junofeb
The poster upthread has it right. With the exception of the Obama campaign, the candidates and their campaigns are acting as if the internets never exsisted. Thank gods they do. I wonder how many claims by former presidential candidates were just as exaggerated or even outrightly manufactured in the not-so-distant past before our wonderful fact-checking technology?

edit to add: Do we even know if Pat Nixon's republican cloth coat ever existed? :P
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
62. It's the Dishonest, Hillary.
One lie after another. This is what she was positing as her grand "experience"?
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Taxmyth Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
63. Freepers
spreading more disinformation about Senator Clinton. We know everything there is to know about Senator Clinton and this nonsense is the best the freepers can come up with. I only wish we knew as much about Barry but I'm sure the GOP will help us out there should he win the nomination, that seems to be the plan, anyway.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. Freeper? You wish. Do you have anything more substantial to add
to this discussion? Like where you think the disinformation is and refuting it?

I hope you realize this is why Hillary is doing so poorly. So many lies, so many votes she can't explain, so many things we're supposed to overlook and the same accusation you just tried- that it's all part of a vast-right wing conspiracy.
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Taxmyth Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. sure do
where was Barry when this trip was made? Let's compare their lives and see if they had similar experiences at the time, shall we?

Was Hillary Clinton told by the pilots or other crew on the plane there was danger of sniper fire? My guess is that this little but probably well known fact was mentioned either in a pre-flight briefing or while on the plane or there were some military personnel seriously derilict in their duties.

This is the best the Freepers can come up with to smear Senator Clinton and it is truly pathetic. Could be looking at 50+ years of Democratic Party rule in the White House and Senate should things start to come together and that scares the Freepers to no end. Not enough known about Barry yet to rule out an October surprise by the GOP while ANYTHING that could possibly come up from Senator Clinton has been looked at, torn apart, shredded, discussed and written about already. Barry has serious issues regarding his ability to be elected in the General Election, and ones that we may not have even learned of yet. So tell me what Barry was doing when First Lady Hillary Clinton was flying into a war zone to visit the troops?
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #70
73. Taxmyth, could you at least TRY to address the point?
I can't even take your post seriously. Barry :rofl:
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Taxmyth Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #73
78. The point is
Edited on Sun Mar-23-08 08:56 PM by Taxmyth
Hillary Clinton went to Bosnia, we don't know what Barry was doing that day. She flew by plane and helicopter to visit United States Military personnel stationed in a war zone. We don't know what Barry was doing that day. She performed the mission as a civilian to improve the morale of the United States Military stationed in a war zone, we don't know if Barry did anything to improve the morale of the United States Military at that time.

I'll take that as experience.

The point is that there are enough facts in evidence to show that a reasonable jury of her peers could not possibly convict her of prevaricating about her recollections of the Bosnia trip while we still don't know what Barry was doing then. Her words and actions have been publicly documented for years and any REAL trouble would have felled her long ago. Barry's words and actions have not been as well documented over the years. There is still a lot to learn about him.

In the meanwhile, based on what I know about both candidates, I'll remain a Hillary Clinton supporter.

Edited to add:

Because she is the only candidate that can beat Senator McCain.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. The real point is that you're nursing sour grapes against "Barry"
so you're gonna keep your head buried in the sand and accept a fabricated story as "experience".

Sad. Very sad. 4000 American soldiers, dead as a result of the lie HRC Clinton enabled, thank you from their graves.

We hit 4000 today. May they rest in peace. :patriot:



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Taxmyth Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #85
98. Stopped nursing many years back
And to to use this line:

"Sad. Very sad. 4000 American soldiers, dead as a result of the lie HRC Clinton enabled, thank you from their graves."

shows what little character you have and how little thought you put into what you wrote. I hope others read this and see just how insincere Senator Obama's supporters are, how little they actually care about anything other than to get the mirage elected and are willing to say anything to do just that. Pathetic. You owe a lot of apologies for that line alone.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #98
116. Insincere? That's pathetic. My younger brother is 6 feet under
because of monsters like Clinton and some of her supporters who have NO conscience. Stick it where the sun don't shine.
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Fyddlestyx Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
64. K & R
:kick: Great post!
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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
66. She probably didn't remember
'Number of times that Hillary Clinton, providing testimony to Congress, said that she didn't remember, didn't know, or something similar: 250.'

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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. 250?
Do you have links for that? I'd like to bookmark them. I know she has a really bad memory when convenient but I was too busy defending them back then to keep track.

Tell Governor Dean I said thank you for everything he's doing to keep these elections honest.
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Duder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. Progressive Review
Some sources credible and some not but a pretty good collection of Hillary's greatest hits:

http://prorev.com/hillary.htm
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #74
88. Thanks. Bookmarked n/t
:hi:
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DerekJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
71. Kick
This post is staying up ...
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burf Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:06 PM
Response to Original message
79. There is a dead give away that
this story is not true. As all soldiers know, a war story must be preceded by the phrase "And this is no shit!".
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
81. MORE with Photo of Hillary and Chelsea walking around + schedule
PART TWO




Hillary Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling U.S. and Bosnian officials. An eight-year-old Moslem girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. An Associated Press photograph of the greeting ceremony, shows a smiling Clinton bending down to receive a kiss.



"There is peace now," Emina told Clinton
, according to Pomfret's report in the Washington Post the following day, "because Mr. Clinton signed it. All this peace. I love it."

http://www.hyerstandard.com/2008/03/hillary-clinton-gets-caught-up-in-her.html

As for a lack of a ceremony at the air base, Atkisson reported Clinton was greeted by the acting President of Bosnia and an eight-year-old Bosnian girl who says she can't remember a time before the war and by a class of seventh-graders who have been pen pals with the children of US troops.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/rich-noyes/2008/03/18/hillary-shot-96-no-media-mention-bosnia-sniper-fire

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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
82. The evasive maneuvers in this story are not being performed by the C-17,
but rather by Hillary Clinton.

At least that's how I see it. :-)
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. That's exactly why HRC wants this story to die
:thumbsup:
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MilesColtrane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
84. So Sinbad and Cinderella Liberty are at odds?
I know where John "Popeye" McCain comes down in this dispute.

"Obama stole a quart of strawberries. Tie him to the mast!"
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. If she could, she would! :rofl: n/t
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
89. How blatantly delusional do you have to be...
...to not understand she lied here.

The landing she spoke of was the C-17. She was very clear about that. If she had said something about a helicopter and sniper fire it would be easier to prove, or at least lie about.

She got caught red handed on this one, and I'm about sick and fucking tired of being called a sexist or freeper because of a discussion of this lie. A lie that was written about by trustworth news outlets, not the freepers.

Idiots!!
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
90. How blatantly delusional do you have to be...
...to not understand she lied here.

The landing she spoke of was the C-17. She was very clear about that. If she had said something about a helicopter and sniper fire it would be easier to prove, or at least lie about.

She got caught red handed on this one, and I'm about sick and fucking tired of being called a sexist or freeper because of a discussion of this lie. A lie that was written about by trustworth news outlets, not the freepers.

Idiots!!
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NM Independent Donating Member (794 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
91. How blatantly delusional must you be...
...to not understand she lied here.

The landing she spoke of was the C-17. She was very clear about that. If she had said something about a helicopter and sniper fire it would be easier to prove, or at least lie about.

She got caught red handed on this one, and I'm about sick and fucking tired of being called a sexist or freeper because of a discussion of this lie. A lie that was written about by trustworth news outlets, not the freepers.

Idiots!!
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
92. Hey! Her memory was probably fuzzy!
I mean c'mon. She's been under sniper fire so many times, she just got it mixed up with some other time.

Who hasn't made a little mistake about when they were under sniper fire? Good grief!

Give her a break!
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-23-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
93. Her problem was trying to play this game
It reminded me of O'Reilly when he claimed to have been in combat because he reported on war. He made it sound like he was in the middle of combat getting shot at or something. Hillary was trying to play this game and get all gung-ho, it's tasteless either way. It's a ploy to burgeon up her national security credentials, she's consistently tried to outmacho other Dems ever since she's been in office. It's great that she went over there, but she has a habit of blowing it all out of proportion. To hear it from Hillary and her campaign she single-handedly created peace in Ireland and now she's an virtually been in combat in Bosnia. It was a bad move all around for her to go that route.
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FunkyLeprechaun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
99. I was saying to my partner
That she's an "old school" politician. He disagreed with my use of "old school" but the idea is the fact that if she said this in 1992 we would be more inclined to believe it because it wasn't quite the age of the Internet then. This is 2008 however, and Hillary should have known better in the world of blogs and YouTube.

Obama understands the power of the Internet and Hillary doesn't. Her lie was in a way that she thought no one would notice it, ala 1992. How wrong was she.

It's really a new era of politics that we're witnessing. It's so different from 2004 as Kerry was only just learning to use the Internet for campaigning whereas Obama has used Dean's 50 State Strategy and really embraced the power of the Internet.

Dean really did bring in this era. In 2004, DU was a mere toddler at 3 years old, DailyKos was only a year old, and a lot of political blogs at the time were just starting up and Dean wanted to use the Internet to his advantage and no one believed him. 2008, DU's 7 years old (in Internet terms that's OLD), DailyKos is well known nationwide, and the Internet is being taken seriously by pundits.

Hillary hasn't really grasped the idea of how powerful the Internet can be. This moment could be the beginning of her leaving the race as she's been branded a big-time liar.

I think that's a good enough explanation of why Hillary said that whopper last week. Is it her Dukakis "Tank" moment? Her Gary Hart "Donna Rice picture" moment?
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People4Change Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #99
103. What else is Hillary telling lies about?
Good post Zenzic about Hillary's not understanding how the
internet is impacting the election and why she cannot get away
with stories such as her Bosnian spin.

If the internet had been available back when Bill ran for
office, I would never have voted for him.  I read and watched
the mainstream media propaganda and bought the stories.  

Unfortunately, there are a lot of working class Democrats that
don't use the internet for research, who don't go to web sites
such as Democratic Underground, and who do vote for Hillary
Clinton because they still believe the myth of the Clintons.  

I haven't seen much in the press lately about the release of
Hillary's tax returns or Bill's library donors.  

I found something interesting about the library donors:

No wonder the Clintons do not want to reveal the donor list
for the Clinton presidential library.  I found on line a story
by Josh Gerstein of the New York Sun from 2004 in which he
disclosed a number of the Clinton library donors.  He found
the donors on a 3rd floor computer at the Clinton Library.
 
You can go to the article at www.nysun.com/article/5152 for
the list.
 
Why isn't the mainstream media discussing this article and the
donor list?  

Donors giving $1 million or more included:
Saudi royal family
Governments of Dubai, Kuwait, Qatar, Brunei & Taiwan
Prime Minister of Lebanon
Arab businessmen Abdullah Al-Dabbagh, Nasser Al-Rashid and
Walid Juffali
Wal-Mart heiress Alice Walton
 
Donors giving $100,000 to $500,000 included:
King of Morocco, Mohammed VI
Pakistani-American businessman Farooq Bajwa
US-Islamic World Conference
 
Marc Rich's ex-wife, Denise, gave $450,000 to the Clinton
Foundation.  Bill Clinton pardoned Marc Rich just before
leaving office in 2000.  
 
As to secrecy of the donors list, Bill Clinton allowed
portions of the donors list to be sold thru a data company,
InfoUSA, headed by CEO Vin Gupta, who gave over $1 million. 
Gupta then "gifted" Bill Clinton 100,000 shares of
InfoUSA options.  
 
Current law treats presidential libraries like nonprofit
groups - no caps on donations, no mandatory disclosure and no
ban on donations by corporations and foreigners.  Senators
John Cornyn and Barack Obama co-sponsored a bill to require
disclosure of any donations over $200.  A similar bill passed
the house but the Obama sponsored bill stalled in Congress.
 
What exactly do these mid-east governments expect in return? 
How will these donations influence a Clinton White House?  NOW
DO YOU SEE WHY THE CLINTONS SHOULD REVEAL THE ENTIRE CLINTON
LIBRARY DONOR LIST? 
 

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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
100. Yea.. the first lady of the US had to run for cover from a sniper..
"Run from a sniper you just die tired" :lmao:
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happygoluckytoyou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
101. GOT THE STORY RIGHT HERE----> IT WAS ITALY!!
But in listening over the weeks to Clinton's advisers make their superdelegate case, you can feel the criteria changing as the conversation ensues. I am reminded of the movie Stripes. John Candy, playing a new Army recruit*, hoodwinks another member of his troop. "You gotta make my bunk," he says earnestly. "See, we're in Italy. The guy on the top bunk has gotta make the guy on the bottom's bunk. He's gotta make his bunk all the time. See, it's in the regulations. See, if we were in Germany, I would have to make yours, but we're in Italy, and you gotta make mine. It's regulations."
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
102. let us bring this back for another round
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
104. most excellent adventures indeed.

best line:

"She even took the time to give a speech (presumably after she dodged the snipers)"
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
105. Seems like most "amazing" it remains fiction
but dont believe me believe Howard Wolfson http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/clinton-misspoke-about-bosnia-trip-campaign-says/
quote "Asked today to square her recent descriptions with these accounts, Howard Wolfson, her spokesman, referred to several contemporaneous news accounts that described the region as hostile. He then added: 'It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.' "


As originally posted here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5234480

Now who else is in the habit of misspeaking??
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #105
106. So she "mispoke" eh. Is that what Penn's calling it these days?
Thanks!

Clinton Misspoke About Bosnia Trip, Campaign Says
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/clinton-misspoke-about-bosnia-trip-campaign-says

The Clinton campaign says Senator Hillary Clinton may have misspoke recently when she said she had to evade sniper fire when she was visiting Bosnia in 1996 as first lady.

She has been using the episode as an example of her foreign policy bona fides.

...

Asked today to square her recent descriptions with these accounts, Howard Wolfson, her spokesman, referred to several contemporaneous news accounts that described the region as hostile. He then added: It is possible in the most recent instance in which she discussed this that she misspoke in regard to the exit from the plane, but there is no question if you look at contemporaneous accounts that she was going to a potential combat zone, that she was on the front lines.

Asked at a later point in the call to clarify his comment, Mr. Wolfson said that news accounts at the time made clear that the area in which she was landing was a potential combat zone and was hazardous.



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FMArouet Donating Member (36 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #106
107. Perfectly fits the textbook definition for sociopathy.
Here are key definitional elements. Four especially pertinent ones are:

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Hmmm. Haven't we seen something like this somewhere else for the past eight years?
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. you nailed it at 'grandiose'!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #107
110. That's really creepy n/t
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #105
113. Have you noticed the sound of crickets?
The Hillary partisans seem deathly quiet on this. Now it is all about "the list" and how unfair it is. Well whoop-de-do!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #113
118. I noticed they're spamming the board with junk instead
I LOVE to break this to them but it's not going to work. My only advice to them is to duck and hide from all the incoming sniper fire!
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
111. Read the whole thread - There are certainly some folks who just
love them some HRC and have as loose connection to facts as she seems to.

It probably would be a lot funnier if there weren't so many blank spots in the thread, but then I'd have to spend my days wading through bat guano.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. I don't have any blank spots in this thread
but wherever you had any, I don't think you missed much.

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iamalevi2 Donating Member (136 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
112. Snipers!
Edited on Mon Mar-24-08 05:11 PM by iamalevi2
Lets give her the benefit of the doubt, did anyone consider that the snipers could have been American?
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #112
120. You're very, very naughty!
:spank:
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TheDonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
114. When do we get the "Mission Accomplished" Hillary strut photo op with her under enemy fire
???
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #114
121. Coming soon. Just give it time n/t
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-24-08 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
122. CBS Exposes Hillary Clinton's Bosnia Trip
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