I'm an Obama supporter and I've heard Bill Clinton's stump speech..

[Eric J in MN]

...and Bill Clinton wasn't questioning Obama's patriotism on Friday.

Bill Clinton has been saying for years that he would like for candidates to be rightfully treated as patriotic.

"if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country" = candidates should be treated as people who love this country

The controversy is a case of a reporter, Carrie Dann, being given the boring task of having to listen to a stump speech, and making it into a big story by twisting Bill Clinton's words.

[KittyWampus]

1. why did you truncate Clinton's quote? You change the meaning by doing that... to help Clinton

you can't sanitize his meaning. But if it pleases you to do so, it's your prerogative.

[Eric J in MN]

3. I wanted to address that part of the quote and I gave a link, but...

...here are all Bill Clinton's words in the MSNBC article which created this controversy:

"I think it would be a great thing if we had an election year where you had two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country," said the former president. "And people could actually ask themselves who is right on these issues, instead of all this other stuff that always seems to intrude itself on our politics."

[Drachasor]

6. But you must admit the context of that quote was about a McCain vs. Hillary GE race

He was giving reasons and an argument to vote for Hillary. I think it is kind of silly to say there was no complicit comparison with Obama (otherwise those aren't really reasons to vote for Hillary, now are they?)

[Eric J in MN]

8. Bill Clinton meant that if his wife is the nominee, he doesn't want her patriotism questioned...

...like his was in 1992 (George H. W. Bush criticizing him for an anti-Vietnam War teach-in at Oxford.)

Clinton wants his wife to be nominated, but he was expressing there what he wants to happen afterwards: a general election campaign based on the issues.

In other words, every sentence Bill Clinton says isn't an argument about the primary, and I recognize the theme there as something he's been saying for years.

He said in 2004:

"I hope that I'll live long enough to see American politics return to vigorous debates where we argue who's right and wrong, not who's good and bad. My experience is, most the people I've known in this work are good people who love their country desperately."

[goclark]

20. Welcome to DU Drachasor

I liked the way you phased your post.

Nice. :bounce:

[dansolo]

13. This patriotism crap is part of the "other stuff" that Bill is alluding to

Why did he even bring up patriotism at all? He claims he wants the campaign to be about the issues, and not about the "other stuff", yet he injected an example of that "other stuff" right into the same sentence.

[Eric J in MN]

16. The criticism Bill Clinton faced in 1992 for having visited the Soviet Union...

...was to cast doubt on his patriotism, and so attacks on patriotism are a relevant example to Bill Clinton of campaigns being about stuff besides the issues.

[saltpoint]

2. I've heard Hillary say it herself, so it is a moot point on her husband.

I appreciate your showing up for that speech and offering clarification, but the point on who loves America came out of Hillary's mouth, and she should be held fully accountable for it.

[Eric J in MN]

4. How did Hillary Clinton supposedly question Obama's patriotism?

By the way, I didn't hear Bill Clinton on Friday, but I heard Bill Clinton's stump speech a couple of years ago.

[saltpoint]

5. On points, Hillary Clinton bolstered the profile of a GOP nominee-apparent

over a fellow Democrat.

"Patriotism" isn't the issue so much as loyaty to the party's tenets.

She abandoned them in a desperate, selfish, lashing out. And she should be ashamed of herself.

[Swamp Rat]

9. She should be ashamed of herself, but apparently she is not.

This bothers me a great deal, and one of many reasons I have dropped my support of her campaign.

At one time, I mostly blamed Penn and Wolfson, but I can no longer do this.

[bigtree]

7. that's how I saw it

more outrage-mongering from his critics

[pscot]

10. My take on that quote

was that Clinton was using coded language to stir up the race issue. If he had referred to "all that other stuff" before a good government forum in Minneapolis one could plausibly argue that he was just talking about divisive campaign tactics in general. In front of a Southern audience, it becomes a lot harder to believe that this isn't racially coded language. In fact, it sounds a lot like the words in praise of Strom Thurmond, that got Trent Lott into so much hot water a couple of years back. If that was not his intent, another sentence or two could have made his message crystal clear. He chose not to provide that clarification.

I understand why Clinton supporters are angered by this kind of textual parsing. But for the last forty years this coded sub-text has been pretty much typical, as a way of talking to white audiences about race and reassuring them that that the pol doing the talking has their back on this issue. It gives me no pleasure to lay this trash at Bill Clinton's door. Maybe I've got it all wrong. I wish I believed that.

[Eric J in MN]

11. Bill Clinton is aware of candidates like himself facing "all this other stuff."

In 1992, he was attacked for having visited the Soviet Union. He was also called a draft dodger.

Assume for a second that the word "If" in his sentence on Friday means what will happen if his wife is the nominee.

That would mean he believes that Hillary Clinton won't have "all this other stuff" used against her if she's the nominee.

He can't believe that.

Therefore, it makes more sense to interpret the "If" as how general election campaigns would be conducted in an ideal world.

[jenmito]

12. He should've said ALL THREE candidates are patriotic/love their country, but Hillary would

be the most qualified to run against McCain (in his opinion). But he didn't, clearly implying Obama does NOT love this country, proven by his "all this other stuff" comment since the whole MSM is showing Obama's old preacher saying "unpatriotic" things...

[Eric J in MN]

19. If Bill Clinton had known that paragraph would be the only thing he said on Friday...

...which the general public would be told about, then maybe he would have phrased it differently.

But since he's been giving speeches for years which include a theme that Democratic and Republican candidates are both patriotic, it would have been difficult for Bill Clinton to have predicted that.

At the 2004 Democratic Convention, Bill Clinton said "we've got to choose for President between two strong men who both love their country." No big controversy was based on that.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/billclinton2004dnc.htm

[jenmito]

26. The media didn't PLAY the part right before that quote where he praised MCCAIN, the REPUB.,

at the expense of Obama. Right now Hillary's losing badly to Obama. Bill Clinton was talking about his opposition back then. Right now Hillary's opposition is OBAMA-not McCain. Both Clintons have heaped praise on McCain while reducing Obama to "a speech he gave in 2002." That's outrageous.

[Eric J in MN]

30. Do you have a link to more of the speech? NT

NT

[jenmito]

31. No. They just played it ONCE that I saw on ONE show-I think it was Friday's Hardball.

[NashVegas]

18. WTF?

Hillary: "It's so great to be here in the South."

Internet-based Obama supporter: "racially coded language! Burn her!"

Hillary: "I like ham on rye."

Internet-based Obama supporter: "racially coded language! Burn her!"

[JimGinPA]

14. He Knew Exactly What He Was Saying - And So Do I...

It was obvious and he got called on it. Defending his remarks is a little ridiculous at this point.

[Eric J in MN]

17. Bill Clinton at 2004 Democratic Convention: similar theme.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/billclinton2004dnc.htm

"Therefore, we Democrats will bring to the American people this year a positive campaign, arguing not who's a good or a bad person, but what is the best way to build the safe and prosperous world our children deserve...

"We Americans must choose for President -- we've got to choose for President between two strong men who both love their country, but who have very different world views: our nominee, John Kerry, who favors shared responsibility, shared opportunity, and more global cooperation; and their President and their party in Congress who favor concentrated wealth and power, leaving people to fend for themselves, and more unilateral action."

[JimGinPA]

21. Similar Theme - Different Circumstance

Three candidates are still involved in the primaries, not just the two Clinton claimed were "patriotic Americans". Just stop the weak rationalizations, it is what it is.

[Eric J in MN]

23. People discussing politics are allowed to look ahead to the general election campaign...

...during the primary campaign.

When Bill Clinton expressed concern months ago that Hillary Clinton would be smeared by Republicans over the driver-licences issue, he was also looking ahead to the general election.

[Drachasor]

25. There weren't three people in the race at that point in 2004

There are three now, and Clinton clearly left Obama out. He did so on purpose. Putting the whole quote in context only makes it worse, imho.

[cooolandrew]

15. This is why I mostly like to rely on video evidence.

[Drachasor]

29. I'll go dig up the video, but it is petty bad

Clinton is explicitly talking about a Clinton vs. McCain election and why you should vote for Hillary. That's the context of the line.

[CitizenLeft]

22. I've seen the whole video a few times...

...and I'm afraid I disagree, but that's okay, we can disagree.

The sad thing is, if he hadn't already said things in a similar vein - that could be taken negatively to be a snipe, jibe, or insult - no one would think that this, too, was just another veiled low blow. One, two times, yes, he can be misinterpreted or misunderstood. But 10 times, the man called a master of the English language and called the most savvy politician of our time? No.

[Eric J in MN]

24. In 2004, Bill Clinton described Bush and Kerry as...

..."two strong men who both love their country."

The best way to understand Bill Clinton's remark is in the context of his past speeches.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/billclinton2004dnc.htm

[Drachasor]

28. Again, there are 3 people in this race -- you suggest he was acting like Obama wasn't even running

Which is arguably a worse insult.

[Johnny__Motown]

27. Then he needs to rephrase it. Clearly it implies that one candidate does not love this country

[Orsino]

32. "...but I repeat myself." --Twain

Seriously, yes. The Big Dawg is a great speaker, or used to be, but he doesn't seem at his best when stumping for Hillary.

He was damned good downtown on MLK Day, though, when he carefully avoided the subject of the primary.