In light of the passport breach, this looks very shady.

[Hailtothechimp]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/12/clinton-camp-to-obama-yo_n_91156.html

On March 12, after 2 of the breaches had already occured and just days before the third one took place, Clinton posits that Obama's only visit to a NATO country, what they term "a brief stopover visit in 2005," brings his credentials to be commander in chief into question.

Unless Obama ever identified the particulars behind this one brief stopover visit, say in an interview or something, there's no way Clinton's campaign would know this. And to make such an attack would be foolish, unless they had some inside dirt in this regard.

If someone can explain this away, I wish they would. Otherwise, this looks bad for Senator Clinton.

[Horse with no Name]

1. read it and weep

You're letting your imagination run away with you.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17165679/

[Joe the Revelator]

2. You're "rebuttal" is woefully lacking

It doesn't state everywhere that he's been, or how long he was in those countries. Thats something that would show up in passport information.

[Cali_Democrat]

4. weak

[scheming daemons]

8. There's no way to know if that was Obama's *ONLY* trip to a NATO country....

...unless they had access to his passport records.


The Clinton statement says that trip was the ONLY one he ever took to a NATO country.... how to know that?



I'm expecting 18-minutes of erased tape....

[Hepburn]

17. Shades of Watergate, IMO...

[Sulawesi]

What does your article have to do with travel to a NATO country in 2005?

[Horse with no Name]

10. Because Hillary specifically referenced 2005

and the article talks about the cost of obama's travels in 2005.

[Hailtothechimp]

11. So where does this say it was his first visit to a NATO country?

I read that he visited Great Britain, but nothing about a "brief stopover" was involved. And this certainly leaves open the possibility that he had been to other NATO countries before he became a senator.

I read the Clinton piece as an indictment of Obama's lifetime travels to NATO nations and Latin America. If they were meaning to limit their scope to his time at a senator, that much was not made clear by the Clinton campaign.

Sorry, but your article doesn't sway me on this.

[LisaL]

25. Here is an article published in Dec 2007, talking about his

brief visit to London.
I wish obamaites just got a clue already.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3080794.ece

[malik flavors]

13. How would the Clintons know, based on that article, that...

Obama had only been to one NATO country in his entire life?

[Voice for Peace]

20. and that it was only a 'brief stopover' ?

curious business, wot

[LisaL]

26. Google is your friend.

This is getting ridiculous.

[Voice for Peace]

59. but conspiracy theories are so much fun

[goclark]

3. For sure Queen Billary will explain this away

I can see her now pointing her finger in his face and telling the MSM that he was the one that took the passport information!

[Cha]

12. She'll starting whining and throwing her

mace around.

[City Lights]

19. LOL! I *knew* that was coming!

:rofl:

[Cha]

27. You crack

me up! :rofl:

[papau]

5. link to one of many Obama travels articles below -its public knowledge

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17165679

[ProgressiveEconomist]

45. Only a credibly COMPLETE record of travel can prove NEGATIVE travel,

and neither an MSNBC article or any collection of media articles and newsclips provide a COMPLETE record.

Unless you can find a recent statement by Obama himself that he's visited Nato countries only once, the only possible other source for such knowledge is a thorough inspection of his passport records.

And such an inspection of private passport records would be a FELONY.

[papau]

47. I suggest Obama told Hillary

[whistle]

6. Smells like another Watergate burglary...so call it Passport Gate

...and look to the administration as behind this

[Horse with no Name]

9. Of course it is the Bush administration

probably looking for something to blackmail him with.

[TahitiNut]

33. "State-gate" has more style.

:shrug:

[whistle]

60. "State-Gate"? Maybe, but what is the connection?

[itsrobert]

7. Yup, reporting of a US Senator's travels is never done. And why wouldn't Obama file a travel

voucher for the trip which would be a routine freedom of information request.

[BlackVelvet04]

29. Exactly......

that information would be easy to get through legal means.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. You are looking at the wrong folk here

not that I expect less here.

So let me spell this for you.

Neocons.

Can you say Neocons? And this crap goes back at least to Watergate... if not further back

Stop thinking on how to damage your opponent and start connecting dots.

[AntiFascist]

15. What also looks bad for Senator Clinton...

Didn't Olbermann just report, toward the end of his second broadcast, that one of the State Dept. supervisors responsible for overseeing the contractors had certain ties to Clinton? I wasn't listening closely, but I thought that was what I heard.

[Muttocracy]

16. seen elsewhere on DU she started under Bush 1 - she's a career state dept. person nt

[dailykoff]

24. Very bad.

Like, there goes the ball game. Seeya Hill! :hi:

[BlackVelvet04]

30. In your dreams. n/t

[dailykoff]

31. Somebody was awfully interested in his file.

We'll see.

[AntiFascist]

35. That was my reaction....

another thread also points out that Maura Harty has been accused of "deference to foreign leaders <Saudis> and laws, to trump OCI's vigilant pursuit of the interests of U.S. citizens."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=M2Q5OGU2MjViYzc4OWE0N2U4MzRlZjE2MmQ2ZmEyMDc=

I think Hillary's connections to foreign influence also need to be explored much more, whether or not it is related in this case. I half wish she could get elected just so this might happen.

[Muttocracy]

18. I think there is confusion between travel as a senator vs. travel during life

I'm assuming the Clinton campaign meant as a senator. And those records are public, as the MSNBC article posted below suggests. Not that you can find them right away, but senators have to file travel info (http://ethics.senate.gov/#travel), so you can probably FOIL the info. Maybe not if they pay for it all themselves, but then it's probably not an official visit anyway.

[Hailtothechimp]

21. But the Clinton campaign doesn't make this distinction at all.

Taking their words at face value, it states that he "never" visited Latin America. That to me doesn't suggest only in his time as a senator.

Parsing the words of this doesn't work in Senator Clinton's favor.

Whoever wrote this needs to be identified and called on the carpet for what they were saying and how they knew this.

[Muttocracy]

22. I agree it's a nasty vague way of saying it but that doesn't mean the passport connection is there.

[blonndee]

28. Obama has stated in at least one interview that he's never been to Latin America.

"Now that Sen. Barack Obama is the front-runner for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination, it's time to answer a question that many U.S. Hispanics and Latin Americans are asking: Would he be good for Latin America? On the minus side, Obama has never been to Latin America, as he told me in an interview last year."

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_8306337

[workinclasszero]

23. Is this the smoking gun??

Passport-gate needs to be investigated immediately.

Maybe Hillary has finally gone to far in her lust for power.

[Teaser]

36. don't assume there is a gun to smoke

It's just as likely that this was a bunch of chumps screwing around as it was something nefarious. So let's figure it out and save the recrminations until (if) we find something worth recrminating.

[dailykoff]

38. Chumps screwing around don't usually risk their jobs

and reputations. This isn't like Britney's dental records. Just sayin.

[Teaser]

39. I'm just trying to be fair here

And I really don't want there to be anything nefarious going on. At least between Democrats, although, ideally, I don't want it to be true of the Bushies either, if only because I'd hope there are some people in the State Dept. who aren't moral lepers.

I'd like very much for it to just be some yahoos goofing off.

[dailykoff]

40. Something nefarious IS going on.

Somebody's breaching security to get dirt on Obama, which what do you know winds up in HRC campaign materials.

Who could it be, I wonder, I wonder...

[Teaser]

41. Here's hoping that's not true then!

I don't know if the Democratic party could survive a story like that.

[dailykoff]

42. It has nothing to do with the Democratic party.

If Hillary is using moles, it's her funeral, period.

[crankychatter]

54. not yet

not yet

as a conservative commentator on msnbc said today

"If Obama selects Clinton as VP, he'd better get a food tester."

[jconner27]

32. Tough times

Boy Team O little troopers are trying their damnest to link this to Clinton..

[Teaser]

34. It is likely nothing, but I'd like to know

How one can determine O has never been to another NATO country, *in his life*, without these records.

There must be a repository of this information somewhere that is publically accessible. Can anyone find it?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

37. You should consider getting off the internet. It has destroyed you.

[40ozDonkey]

53. President Obama laughs at your drama. n/t

[JBoy]

55. LOL!

:rofl:

[girl gone mad]

43. Enough already.

This information would not be available to Clinton or anyone else in Obama's passport records because the government does not keep a complete itinerary of each citizen's travels.

[dailykoff]

44. They keep track of information unavailable to the public.

Otherwise they wouldn't be secured.

[girl gone mad]

46. But they do not keep specific travel records.

Typically such files, which are maintained for all people who receive passports, include materials like passport applications and supporting identity documents.

Here are the types of documents that would be in a passport file:

Passport

The new passport forms (DS-11, DS-82, DS-3053 DS-4085, and DS-5504) become effective on February 1, 2008.

For all questions on Passports, see Passports.

-- DS-0010 Birth Affidavit < 205 Kb>
-- DS-0011 Application for U.S. Passport or Registrations (Fillable) < 1001 Kb>
-- DS-0011 Application for U.S. Passport or Registrations (Non-Fillable) < 743 Kb>
-- DS-0060 Affidavit Regarding Change of Name < 222 Kb>
-- DS-0064 Statement Regarding Lost or Stolen Passport < 231 Kb>
-- DS-0071 Affidavit of Identifying Witness < 215 Kb>
-- DS-0082 Application for U.S. Passport by Mail (Fillable) < 717 Kb>
-- DS-0082 Application for U.S. Passport by Mail (Non-Fillable) < 787 Kb>
-- DS-0086 Statement of Nonreceipt of Passport < 236 Kb>
-- DS-1173 Passport File Request Form < 224 Kb>
-- DS-3053 Statement of Consent: Issuance of a Passport to a Minor under Age 16 (Fillable) < 157 Kb>
-- DS-3053 Statement of Consent: Issuance of a Passport to a Minor under Age 16 (Non-Fillable) < 143 Kb>
-- DS-3077 Request for Entry into Children's Passport Issuance Alert Program < 207 Kb>
-- DS-4085 Application for Additional Visa Pages (Fillable) < 729 Kb>
-- DS-4085 Application for Additional Visa Pages (Non-Fillable) < 614 Kb>
-- DS-5504 U.S. Passport Re-Application (Fillable) < 955 Kb>
-- DS-5504 U.S. Passport Re-Application (Non-Fillable) < 881 Kb>

http://www.state.gov/m/a/dir/forms/passport/


An application can include information on travel destination, but this is not mandatory.

[Horse with no Name]

48. So....being that I believe that the GOP did this

they weren't looking for suspicious travel dates or destinations...but were they possibly looking for his Birth Certificate?

[dailykoff]

49. Have you seen his file?

Unless you have, neither you nor I have any freaking idea exactly what's in it.

[Horse with no Name]

50. Passport files are standard. n/t

[dailykoff]

52. The word "typically" in your own post shows you're wrong.

But keep dreaming your Hillary dreams.

[girl gone mad]

56. Who are you replying to?

Me or Horse With No Name?

I used the word typically in my post. I am an Obama supporter, not a Clinton supporter.

Claims that the Clinton campaign was snooping through Obama's passport files to prove he never went to Latin America or Canada (etc.) are completely without merit.

The State Department does not keep such records. While a passport file may show someone stated on an application that they were traveling to a particular country, these cannot be considered complete or accurate travel records.

[meow mix]

51. K&R for shady stuff!

[anonymous171]

57. I do not want another President who has no respect for the rule of law.

GOBAMA!

[WonderGrunion]

58. I have news for Sen. Clinton

The United States of America IS a NATO country.

To paraphrase Sen. McCain. I'm pretty sure Obama had more than just a stopover in the good ol' US of A in 2005.

And, BTW, :sarcasm: