To the "post-feminists" -- do you get it yet?

[pnwmom]

To the post-feminists, and those others among us who just can’t understand why so many women of a certain age (whether or not they are Hillary supporters) are horrified about how she has been treated -- by the MSM and even by many on DU.

Do you get it?
Do you finally get it?

What did ABC News do, in a “special investigative report” immediately after the release of thousand of pages of HRC’s White House schedules? What did everyone want to know about? What did the Huffington Post and untold numbers of other news outlets, conservative and liberal, immediately report?

What apparently must be the NUMBER ONE ISSUE on people’s minds regarding Hillary’s years as First Lady?

The answer: Where was Hillary when Bill and Monica were getting it on?

This is why the news media has been waiting with baited breath for those White House schedules.

So they can trivialize, insult, and slime the woman once again.

Just when I think they can sink no lower in the muck . . . the MSM proves me wrong.

[Kittycat]

1. None of that changes my impression of her & her pathetic way to campaign.

She's a sore loser that will do anything to take down her opponent, even a democrat - even if it means destroying the party. She isn't a feminist, she's a self-centered person that thinks we OWE her this.

And do you know what I was most interested in... her NAFTA agreement & lack of any meaningful "experience".

[DesertFlower]

6. i agree.

:toast:

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

8. Can't you understand that the way the MSM is allowed to treat HRC

is a serious threat to women candidates everywhere?

How you feel about her personally is completely beside the point.

[Kittycat]

17. No. I don't.

This is a Clinton problem, not a "Feminist" problem.

[Texas Hill Country]

21. then you get ignored.

[Kittycat]

28. That's fine with me. If you can't handle the truth,

then that's your choice.

All I've seen you interested in is smearing Obama with RW talking points anyway.

[pnwmom]

33. Tell that to Barbara Boxer, many DUers favorite female politician.

She has spoken at length of the difficulties she has faced as a woman Senator.

It's not an accident that there are only 16 women Senators, and a similar proportion of women in the House.

You obviously prefer to wear blinders.

[Kittycat]

36. Boxer isn't Clinton. We're talking about Clinton.

Don't try to change the subject.

[pnwmom]

40. Barbara Boxer and others prove that the treatment of Hillary in the MSM

isn't specific to Hillary.

Women Senators have always faced an uphill battle related to their being women.

[Auntie Bush]

120. And if Boxer were running for president...she would be trashed like Hillary

by the good OLD boys on the MSM talking heads and executive boards.

[pnwmom]

125. I agree. n/t

[saltpoint]

138. She wouldn't be trashed at my house by god. I hold Senator Boxer in

the very highest regard.

SHE is a presidential material, heart, soul, and mind.

[BlackVelvet04]

80. You must have garnered some of that audacity from Obama....

you were the first one to change the subject. Instead of addressing the problem of how the MSM treats female politicians you attack Clinton's campaign.

[Texas Hill Country]

65. Proportional representation of women and AA's in Congress... Stats inside. You might be shocked.

There is 1 African American Congressperson for every 847,000 African Americans in this country.

There is 1 Female Congressperson for every 2,532,000 women in this country.

Guess who has less representation?

[pnwmom]

76. Interesting statistics.

Do you know what the numbers are for male members of Congress?

And do you have a link by the way?

[roguevalley]

135. guess which is the larger population?

[Hippo_Tron]

142. True but those numbers change for the Senate and Governor's mansions

There's currently one black Senator and I think around 14 female Senators (I'd have to check that number).

Women have been a lot more successful at winning statewide than African Americans.

[DesertFlower]

34. it's a hillary problem.

i always liked bill. defended them both for 8 years. now i don't like him either. i think they will do anything to get her elected.

[Kittycat]

38. Bingo.

[DesertFlower]

45. yep.

:toast:

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesertFlower]

103. just because we are not supporting

your candidate you choose to attack us. that's not very nice.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

116. omg!

n/t

[Hepburn]

39. How the press is allowed to treat her???

Get real. And a threat to all female candidates? Bullshit.

Hillary is a POS that is being pampered by the MSM. :eyes:

[Control-Z]

89. 'pampered by the MSM'?

pampered? :rofl:

'Hillary is a POS that is being pampered by the MSM.'

Hepburn, if you've had credibility, ever, at any point in the past, you just threw it away with that statement.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

117. pampered....

now I've heard it all.

[rodeodance]

I understand it very well. I also think that

it will be a long time before another woman will run for the presidency.

[Voice for Peace]

84. I don't agree that this is a feminist issue.

sorry.

[Radical Activist]

104. Do you think its any worse than they treated Gore and a lot of other male candidates?

I don't.

[eridani]

139. It has an extra edge because Clinton is a woman

You'd have to be tone-deaf not to hear the sexism. Not that this excuses her use of Republican memes, though.

[Whisp]

20. same here. she gets not one ounce of sympathy from me

when she is such a dirty asshole player in the campaign.

she is a disgrace and I could give a shit about how she may 'suffer' over sexism. People are suffering over death and maiming, in the hundreds of thousands because of her sliminess, so too bad so sad, fuck you and that slimeball husband you rode in on.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

118. "I could give a shit about how she may 'suffer' over sexism" - nice

I'm really disappointed on how the people on this board treat women's issues - but I have to say I'm glad it's opened my eyes.

[Whisp]

143. she's a fake. she is using her womaness as a shield

to get away with shit.

piss on her.

[roguevalley]

88. my objections are based on conduct and not on anything else.

to tie feminism into her candidacy and making those with legitimate objections into anti-feminists or questioning their ideals for women and the future is crap. Don't make this about feminism. Women don't get a pass. they have to be as worthy for my attention as anyone else.

[femrap]

90. With your karma,

you may just get a taste of what it feels like to be betrayed by someone you love.

I can't believe this is why the MSM wanted those records...I truly had no idea. That's sickening..and if you can't see that, you have problems with showing sympathy...what are you? A sociopath? An unfeeling person who calls herself by a cute name, kittycat? Please.

[Horse with no Name]

2. there was no doubt that was what they were looking for

and you know what?
If I were Bill and Hillary...I would tell this party to take a flying leap.
Whether anyone will admit it or not...they have done good things for this party. Some not so good but I don't think you can use that measure because ALL of our elected reps have disappointed us at one time or the other.

[mtnester]

3. I called that blindfolded, with ear plugs, in a sensory deprivation chamber

and translated it to 40 languages after I did

Exaggeration of course, for saying I saw what they did coming a mile away.

[pnwmom]

9. Well good for you, but I didn't. I was flabbergasted. n/t

[mtnester]

16. I don't know, maybe I am too jaded for my own good

MSM is run by men (so now for a second I am going to sound like a hater) so I expected nothing less at all. Seriously.

Does it surprise me? Not ususally. Some posts in GD-P make my mouth drop more...does that make sense?

[pnwmom]

26. Well, I know what you mean about certain posts.

I'm so ready for this campaign season to be over. The longer it goes on, the more hopeless it seems.

[Name removed]

94. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kittycat]

109. Excuse me?

I've been a member of this site longer than you have. And a quick glance at your profile reveals you are a male. I'm a female, and have every right to speak up on feminist issues.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

119. You obviously have no idea what feminism is....

Let me guess - you're probably 20-something, right?

[bicentennial_baby]

4. I understand and am disgusted by the recent developments

Regardless of my candidate affiliation, I'm with you. Nasty. x(

[jesus_of_suburbia]

5. pnwmom - I'm a gay male, and I do get it!

Will you let me be a feminist too?

I'm on your side.


I'm sick of this board... but there are enough people here to make it worthwhile to visit.


I'm sick of the constant hate of Hillary (80% of it is because she is female).


I stand with you, my sister.

[Hoof Hearted]

12. Amen Jesus!

The BEST men I know are all feminists!

[jesus_of_suburbia]

22. The best people I know are women!

*hugs*

[Iris]

67. funny you should say that...

because some of the best people I know are gay males!

Thanks for standing with us!

[jesus_of_suburbia]

69. Always, Iris... I will ALWAYS stand with my sisters.

Thanks!

[pnwmom]

Thank you for your kind words.

Of course I welcome your support. By the way, I'm a community member, too -- through my gay father and his partner.

:hi:

[jesus_of_suburbia]

24. Thanks, pnwmom... women in my life have always been the kindest to me.

I'm so thankful for women.


And before anyone gets upset, I know there are MANY MANY MANY kind men as well. It's just been my experience that women are kinder to me.

[DesertFlower]

49. i love gay men,

but i don't like hillary.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

70. I love you anyway, sweets... and I love Barack too. I will vote for him if he beats my gal Hillary

*hugs*

[DesertFlower]

72. hugs to you too.

:pals:

[femrap]

95. Hey there...jesus of suburbia! Welcome

to the Light Side!

I have been staying away from what has turned out to be a cesspool created by 'Infiltrators' of the RNC and other wingnut groups....but when it gets sooooooooooo bad, I gotta come in and speak up.

Good to have you here....you can always go over to just General Discussion for some relief from the willfully ignorant!

[EFerrari]

7. The problem is, she's right in the gutter with them.

:shrug:

[pnwmom]

14. There's where we disagree. n/t

[EFerrari]

19. Well, how do you square that, exactly?

How do you square her campaign working racial division for her benefit with feminism?

It's not a matter of debate. They have admitted it.

I didn't work this side of the street for the womens' movement to condone that.

[pnwmom]

37. I'd like to see a link where her campaign has admitted to working

racial division for her benefit.

That really is news to me.

[EFerrari]

41. Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/us/politics/20memo.html?_r=4&hp=&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1205978784-DYODfocUf%20PREVvCwoyFsg&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[pnwmom]

64. I don't think that article supports your point. n/t

[EFerrari]

107. Really? So the Clinton campaign using a distorted and racist story

about Obama's former pastor, a man who has received three presidential awards, to lobby super delegates for his unelectability doesn't support my observation that they are knee deep in sewage?

Then nothing can.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

121. The Clinton campaign was NOT the one to bring up his pastor....

It was Sean Hannity and Faux News.

and by the way, that was really not very hard to dig up I would assume. Barack kept on bringing up Wright and Hannity had had him on his show. He apparently dug up the tapes and heard all this.

Have you not been paying attention?

[DesertFlower]

10. does anyone stop to think that it has nothing

to do with her being a woman? they don't like her.

[pnwmom]

15. Keep telling yourself that if it makes you happy.

But it's not making you any smarter.

[DesertFlower]

29. i don't have to. i don't like her.

i never did. the first time i saw her in '92 when she said "i guess i could have stayed home and baked cookies". nothing wrong with what she said -- it was how she said it -- like a snotty bitch.

[dsc]

85. gee that isn't sexist

not at all. :sarcasm: in case it is needed.

[DesertFlower]

132. this is ridiculous.

i'm a woman. just because i don't like hillary i'm sexist? are the people who don't like obama racists? Jesus H. Christ.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

122. "a snotty bitch"

nice....

[roguevalley]

137. you don't win arguments, pnwmom, by using insults.

when I graduated from high school, you could 'be' a nurse, a secretary, a teacher or a mommy. Don't tell me about what a woman faces when they try to be more than that. A hell of a lot of us know all too well what sexism and the glass ceiling is like. It is so much better now than even twenty years ago it isn't funny. But just because someone is a woman doesn't mean I will support them. they have to meet my criteria and earn my vote. If all we are doing is voting for the dame, then any woman can run. Kay Bailey Hutchinson perhaps. We have come to far to be caught in the trap of my gal or no one else. I will always vote for the one who earns my vote. Hillary hasn't and never will. And lest you feel the urge to curse me out, I have lost a relationship with my brothers because of defending these two people these past ten years.

The last conversation my brother had with my mother was an argument over the clintons. He never got to reconcile with her before she passed away. The Clintons are not OWED a damned thing by me and mine.

[wileedog]

11. Its not about feminism, its about ratings

Do you think the average American housewife cares whether she really sat in on Irish peace talks or whether she was for Nafta before she was against it after she was for it?

No, they want the tabloid stuff. That is what will sell the most eyeballs.

Not saying its right or they are any less scum for it, but thats the rationale, not putting Hillary down.

[pnwmom]

18. You're telling me the average housewife was waiting to hear this garbage?

Sorry, I don't share your low opinion of average women.

[wileedog]

63. OK, then

Well who is buying all of those endless People magazine's with Angelina, Brad and Jennifer on the cover?

Joe Six Pack?

[pnwmom]

77. That doesn't mean they want to hear yet another rehash of Bill and Monica,

10 years later.

[wileedog]

81. They want to hear that more

than Irish peace accords.

This is not an anti-feminine thing, I don't believe the average American male is all that interested in her day to day life as First Lady either. I'm merely pointing this out from a standard demographics standpoint - this is the stuff people in Marketing get paid megabucks to find out, and to use to sell more papers/magazine/site views.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

123. this is unbelievable.....

n/t

[blm]

13. I want to know why Clintons needed Marc Rich pardoned - actually, I do know - for GHWBush

and Jackson Stephens. Protecting the iranContra and BCCI criminals was the biggest job Clintons had in the 90s and that worked out so well for BushInc, didn't it?

Get real - this is not about feminism, it's about CLOSED GOVERNMENT and its secrecy and privilege being protected behind the scenes while the sex and high school antics kept the media and the party bases all busy fighting - for YEARS, while the fascists marched forward.

[pnwmom]

25. Get real. They didn't use those schedules to tell us anything substantive.

They immediately went for something PERSONAL to slime the woman with.

This is why it is most definitely about feminism. Instead of evaluating those schedules for something related to Hillary in her work duties, they immediately went after her in a low-down personal attack.

[Recursion]

32. What does that have to do with feminism?

Instead of evaluating those schedules for something related to Hillary in her work duties, they immediately went after her in a low-down personal attack.

They do that to men, too. I don't see what that has to do with feminism.

[pnwmom]

56. Because this is what is routinely done to women, much more than to men.

I'm not saying that personal attacks are never made on men -- but very rarely to the extent they are made on women. And men are not put in the same double bind.

Hillary has been attacked and mocked for her thick ankles, her body shape, her headbands, her decorating, her use of her maiden name, her "shrill" voice, her "cackle," her pantsuits, her ambition, and her standing-by-her-man.

In every way it can, the media has tried to reduce her to her gender -- and then implied that she wasn't womanly enough.

If you don't know what this has to do with feminism, then you don't understand feminism.

[Recursion]

71. Hillary's husband might disagree with that.

I'm not saying that personal attacks are never made on men -- but very rarely to the extent they are made on women.

Did you have a television during the 1990's? Did you see what they did to Bill?

[blm]

47. The media did because sex is what they COVER instead of govt corruption or

the corporate takeover of our foreign policy as evidence in the BCCI report.

Clintons were part of it and were the useful tools - including the sex - to divert attention away from all the outstanding matters of Bushinc's criminal operations that were being covered up throughout the 90s.

The Clintons AT ANY TIME could have stopped it all dead, but they were the distraction and they were rewarded with the presidency to play that role.

You think it was just coincidence that Stephens groomed their careers in Arkansas and underwrote Bill's primary campaign when it was apparent to Bushies that he would be impeached after the release of the bCCI report?

[DesertFlower]

51. how about the pardon of the hasidim?

THE CLINTON Pardongate scandal deepened further yesterday into a "pardons for votes" investigation with the confirmation that former President Bill Clinton was being investigated not just for his pardon of the billionaire financier Marc Rich, but for commuting the sentences of four New York Hasidic Jews.

The four were convicted of embezzling millions of dollars in government funds, and leaders of their New Square community met Mr Clinton to plead their case.

Unlike the Marc Rich probe, which focuses on whether the pardon was effectively "bought" by political donations made by Mr Rich's ex- wife, the latest investigation by the New York attorney's office is directed at establishing whether the pardons were granted in return for votes for Hillary Clinton's Senate campaign.

The Hasidic Jews of New Square turned out en bloc to vote for Mrs Clinton. As voters known for following the advice of their community leaders, this group is a sought-after constituency for politicians.

The latest twist in the pardons saga compounds the problems not just for Bill Clinton, who acceded to the request for the commutations, but for Mrs Clinton - who acknowledges sitting in on the meeting, while taking no part. "I did not play any role whatsoever," she said last month when the first questions arose about the Hasidic Jews. "I had no opinion about it."

Coming hard on the heels of revelations that Mrs Clinton's lawyer brother, Hugh Rodham, was paid $400,000 for soliciting presidential pardons on behalf of two convicted criminals, the New York investigation does nothing to dispel the cloud of suspicion hanging over the Senator for New York.
snip

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010224/ai_n14374331

[LaurenG]

23. Well had she been the one with the cigar in the oval office and Bill

had been running for president I think the focus would still be on SEX. It's been the magic bullet to bring down the democrats and not talk about with republicans.

Trust me, if Obama had an affair, EVER, it would be the same.

It's disgusting and aggravating that it's an issue at all.

[femrap]

96. And she is going to stick the cigar where????

Up some guy's ass? Get real. Look what happened to Lewinsky....she can't get a job. Look at Bill...still making shitloads of money and no harm to his rep.

[LaurenG]

140. Not the point., If Hillary had the affair they would have used it against Bill

If Obama or his wife had affairs they would use it.
Were we talking about the media? They LOVE this stuff because the public is in love with these stories.

As far as the rest, I wasn't addressing that.

[femrap]

144. I don't believe our culture nor

the MSM would have held it against Bill if HRC had an affair. The women is always wrong. ALWAYS!

She would have been raked over the coals.

[LaurenG]

146. Well I think when it comes to presidential politics it is handled a lot more aggressively

especially now. I do not read the posts about what the media is dredging up about Bill's affair. Senator Clinton is not responsible for what he did and I will defend her or stay out of the fray.

[femrap]

148. There are many women out there saying

that they won't vote for HRC because she didn't divorce him! Of course, if she had divorced him, others would have been upset.

No matter what....A woman is always wrong! Gotta love our patriarchal culture...NOT!

[Recursion]

27. She's probably jumping for joy

Salacious nonsense like that means they aren't asking why she was kept away from all policy decisions after the healthcare fiasco

[Hepburn]

30. I am horrified about how she has been acting.

Whiny, sniveling, bullshitting liar. I came of age in the 60s and she is EXACTLY what I found offensive then. I am an independent, well-educated woman...and Hillary is an embarrassment. I cringe when I see people like you think that her cloying ways are what being liberated is all about. She is the role model of what NOT to be like. The press has been far too kind to a phony, race baiting creature like Hillary Clinton.

:puke:

[femrap]

97. I think your dog hates you....

'cloying?' Are you with kittycat and sweets? 3 little rnc boys playing as girls???? How much are they paying you for this folly? Maybe I could get in on this farce????

[LisaM]

31. Good post, I noticed that too!

It was pretty unbelievable to me. Do they have to keep putting her through this?

[jgraz]

35. I've been a feminist my entire adult life and I'm sickened by Hillary's cynical use of gender.

But it sounds like it's working on you.

[Hepburn]

43. Exactly!

:applause:

[pnwmom]

44. You don't think it was outrageous for the MSM, finally having those

schedules in hand, to immediately reduce her to a cheated-on wife?

[EFerrari]

50. But that's only one piece of this whole picture.

Of course that is horrible.

[Hepburn]

52. Bill Clinton's behavior reduced her to a cheated on wife.

Don't give the news media more credit than they deserve, OK? And, frankly, if I had a husband or an SO that cheated on me....there is NO way I would play the Little Woman so I could use HIS coattails instead of my own abilities and my own success. What she is doing is the OPPOSITE of being a strong, independent female. I am sick to death of her embarrassing whining that it is "just not fair." :puke:

[jgraz]

66. It's completely outrageous. But it doesn't make her a better candidate in the slightest.

And the MSM's treatment of this is not why she's losing. That didn't cause her to blow a 40 point lead. It didn't cause her to waste millions of dollars on worthless consultants. And it's not why she can't win a caucus to save her life.

She's been a terrible candidate who has mismanaged her campaign from the start. And that has nothing to do with sexism.

[Skidmore]

42. Bill slimed his wife with his behavior, and he

slimed Monica too. The media is doing what the media does--try to create sensation wholesale. Now are you as upset with Bill as you are with the media?

I don't get what this has to do with feminism at all. It has more to do with one man's very bad behavior.

[pnwmom]

46. Bill's "crime" happened long ago. The MSM's never stops. Why won't

they ever let this go?

[Skidmore]

53. Because Bill keeps making an ass of himself and sets himself

up for people to keep coming back at him. I think he likes playing the bad boy.

[pnwmom]

57. In other words, blame the victim. It's all Bill's fault, so it's all Hillary's fault

that the MSM is trying to reduce her candidacy to a sex joke.

[JVS]

60. Obama: Jesse Jackson, Clinton: Gary Hart

Not so nice now, huh.

[Skidmore]

62. Why don't you blame Bill?

The media just likes digging dirt. Period. How is Hillary a victim when it take two to make a marriage and she clearly had experienced a history of this type of behavior in her marriage? She chose to stay in it. She was there because she wanted to be. Other women make other choices in similar circumstances. I don't see her as a victim but as a willing participant in a marriage to a man who has some serious problems.

[Hepburn]

54. Is Hillary still with him and riding his coattails and trying to make HIS experience...

...her own? She brought this on herself IMO.

[JVS]

58. Maybe if he weren't running around acting like he's running for a 3rd term, he'd be forgotten.

But since he has insinuated himself into the race further than any former president in memory, that's life.

[femrap]

98. Are you dense? Willfully ignorant?

The MSM treating women like objects and you don't see feminism anywhere? When do you see it? Bill is still riding high...Lewinsky can't get a job. His wife did nothing wrong yet the msm somehow blames her for his immorality.

Have you had an IQ test? You should be banned simply for being so completely unaware of reality.

[redqueen]

48. Sex sells. I disagree that they're going straight there

because she's a woman.

They'd do it to any personality with such a giant sex scandal in their past.

[JVS]

55. Awwwww, did Hillary's campaign get a raw deal from the media? How sad. Here's a hanky.

[pnwmom]

59. No. Women are getting a raw deal from the media.

Every women candidate loses when the media are encouraged to reduce a woman's candidacy to her husband's sex life.

[JVS]

61. I haven't seen this happen to Pelosi.

Even amid Ferraro's racist renaissance nobody talked about her sex life.

Maybe it's a Hillary thing

[pnwmom]

74. Women are trivialized and sexualized by the media.

This is part of the reason we only have 16 female Senators and a similar proportion of women in the House.

A few women, like Pelosi, break through the barriers. That doesn't prove that the deck isn't stacked against them.

[Recursion]

79. Sorry, since Mosely-Braun left the Senate nobody in there...

...has had "the deck stacked against them". They are the elite of the elite in this country.

[pnwmom]

108. All the women in the Senate are being dealt from a different deck

than the men.

Look at the percent of women in professional schools. There's no excuse that the number of women in the Senate isn't at least twice as high as it is now.

[Recursion]

110. I think the Senate will always have to be a following indicator

Women are graduating from college at a much higher rate than men; that cohort comes of age soon.

[pnwmom]

124. That's acceptable to you, but not to me. Women have been graduating

from college at comparable rates to men for several DECADES. There is no good reason that so few women are among the members of both the House and the Senate.

[Recursion]

127. Exactly, "decades"

Senators are generally in their 50's and 60's: not that cohort yet.

[pnwmom]

130. What about the House? Women comprise a similar proportion of members

of the House. What is your excuse for that?

And a large proportion of women in their 40's and 50's, old enough to be Senators, graduated from college. Certainly more than enough to provide a solid base from which to draw women for the Senate. But Barbara Boxer and others will tell you -- obstacles have been put in their way BECAUSE they are women.

Deny it all you want, but the numbers don't lie -- and neither does Barbara Boxer.

[Recursion]

131. Where the hell do you get the idea I'm "excusing" it?

I just don't think the ultra-privileged have much room to complain for being somewhat less-ultra-privileged than their male peers.

[pnwmom]

133. What about all the women who haven't joined the ranks? Why do you

act as if the fact that wealthy women like Nancy Pelosi are members of Congress makes it okay that so few other women are?

[Hepburn]

68. Hey, maybe some women would not stay with a husband who...

...cheated on her again and again and again and again...etc. And that goes for men who have wives who cheat or anyone who has a cheating partner.

How the hell can anyone call themselves their own person, male or female, if they let someone else walk the fuck all over them and shit on them all the time?

Do you think I want a doormat representing me on any issue??? GMAFB...!!!

:eyes:

[pnwmom]

75. This is a personal issue between two spouses. It has nothing to do with

what kind of President Hillary would make.

Until Clinton came along, practically every male President was free to fool around -- and did fool around -- with the MSM always looking the other way. The men's job performance was never judged on whether they were committing adultery or not. It is ironic that some of us want to judge Hillary based on her husband's adultery.

[Hepburn]

86. Her actions evidence an enormous amout of poor judgment.

I cannot imagine that being a doormat and riding on the coattails of a spouse or SO is in any manner an indication of good judgment or common sense. It's HER response to being used that most certainly IS at issue.

What kind of a person has WELCOME imprinted on his/her back? You want that person representing YOU in a crisis? Well, count me out.

[Tresalisa]

73. Well, one thing to remember in this,

is that Bill Clinton did, as you put it, "get it on" with Ms. Lewinsky. You don't have to watch many news programs to see that this kind of stuff draws interest with the public. The news orgs figured, and to my chagrin apparently rightly so, that people wanted to know where she was when "it" was happening. You are also not going to stop people from tying Hillary in. I don't know if it should be so alarming to feminists (of which I am one) for what it says about women being fit for office as it is indicative of people's appetite for the prurient.

[WolverineDG]

78. Instead of being a good role model for women candidates

she chose to show that women can run just as ugly & nasty & dirty a campaign as a man. I remember early on how the cries of "Hillary bashing" went out every time inconsistencies in her record were reported. She then went on to whine in a debate about being called on first. Puhleeze. It's luck of the draw & she seemed to get the short end of the stick more times than anyone else. Instead of making lemonade out of that lemon, she whined about it.

She also blew an opportunity to score some really big points in the debate in Texas. Right after Obama gave a great answer on the similarities between his speeches & Duval Patrick's, she COULD have played it cool & said "Well, I think that Senator Obama has answered that question & nothing else needs to be said about it." Oh no, not Hillary. She just had to deliver the Xerox line (& got booed for it).

A good politician will go reach out to all voters. Hillary was only interested in the states having primaries before February 5. If she gets the nod, she's only going to care about voters in the DLC's target area. The rest of us can go to hell for all she cares.

Her campaign has shown she is an incompetent leader & manager, not exactly role-model material for women.

dg

[JBoy]

82. It's got nothing to do with sexism, but everything to do with sex

The fact that Hillary is a woman is, I think, irrelevant.

If the tables were turned, and Hillary were the previous president who had a little dalliance with a young male intern, and now it was Bill running for President, I'd be willing to bet the media would be wanting to know where Bill was while Hillary was getting serviced.

All the same, it's a sad commentary on the media's priorities.

[Name removed]

99. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JBoy]

102. Dumb question:

what does "put your dick on your chin" mean?

[femrap]

113. I said you were an idiot....

think about it. Or go ask the RNC....

[JBoy]

115. OK, thanks for the intelligent conversation!

:hi:

[cbayer]

83. I don't know what a post-feminist is, but I am touched by your post.

It helps me understand my continuing support of Clinton.

I have been a woman in a position of power. I was in charge of a group of highly educated professionals that were over 85% male.

I know what it takes and what you have to endure to be effective.

Hillary Clinton is an inspiration for me. I don't see her blindly. I see her from my own perspective.

Those who don't recognize what she has had to face and how well she has managed it are coming from a different perspective.

[EFerrari]

105. Post feminism simply means "after feminism" as if the fights that feminism picked

have been resolved.

[cbayer]

126. Ok.

So a post-feminist would say there is no longer any issue.

That equality has been achieved and it is no longer an issue?

[Mezzo]

87. I get it. The double standard here is just amazing...Bro's before Ho's you know. nt

[kerry-is-my-prez]

128. I guess the Dem Party is no better than the Rep Party when it comes to the way women are treated.

If even supposed "progressives" say the things that have been said on this thread - there's not much hope.

Maybe we all need to start our own party.

[AX10]

91. kick

The hate for HRC is just horrible.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

101. Mrs. Clinton stepped out into the back alleyway of her own volition

and brought her own well-sharpened knives.

Too bad if she gets cut up a bit. That's how it works in alley fights. The knives come out quickly and as I say, she brought her own to the gig. She chose to fight. She knew the rumble would be rough going.

Politics is not Romper Room. She chose to run, and she knew what she was getting into beforehand.

As for the trivializing, she's done that to herself on her own by hiring ego-maniacs and thugs to run her campaign.

But again, that was her own decision.

[Radical Activist]

106. It doesn't excuse the way she insults me and all voters.

It doesn't mean I won't notice the way she panders and changes with every poll thinking that people aren't smart enough to notice. I notice the way she insults me by talking of her 30 year record of change thinking I won't notice that she can't name any major accomplishments in those 30 years. She insults me by justifying her vote for war. She insults me by suggesting Obama supporters are deluded. She insults me every day that she continues to harm the Democratic Party by not dropping out.

[Drachasor]

111. That's not sexism, that's par for the course MSM sensationalism

MSM sucks, everyone should know that by now.

[Major Hogwash]

112. Hillary had to be sued to get those papers made public - too fucking bad for Hillary!!!!

When Hillary claimed she had more experience than Obama - she must have been talking about all of her experience of being able to hide all the shit she did in the past better than him!!

Hillary didn't release these papers of her own free will - she lost a lawsuit trying to keep them hidden!!

Too fucking bad!!!

[Splinter Cell]

114. Nope

I'm not going to feel sorry for HRC after all the bullshit she's pulled. I haven't seen the Obama people dropping hints and winking at voters about a female president. We've all seen the Clintons play up to racial fears.

Hillary Clinton is not the right choice because of the decisions she has made as an official and a candidate, not her gender.

[StevieM]

129. Well, I'm a man and I love Hillary. I'm sickened by the way she has been lynched by the media.

And it has nothing to do with feminism on my part. I just think that she's been brutalized by reprehensible people who have no sense of fairness and decency.

Steve

[Adams Wulff]

134. IT'S HER SORRY CAMPAIGN, STUPID!

To paraphrase the Clinton campaign in 1992.

Are you truly shocked to discover the MSM reporting on her awful campaign? Her awful choices during that campaign?

You can tie the feminist boat to the Clinton anchor, but remember, when you're in a storm on the high seas, it's still an anchor.

The schedules play a role in determining how she brought peace to Northern Ireland (she didn't). Or how she opened borders for Kosovo refugees (she didn't). How about dodging sniper fire in the Balkans? (didn't happen).

Maybe the MSM is doing her a favor by concentrating on the more salacious details, rather than riddling her "35 years of public service" full of holes. That way, she can be a victim all over again.

Kind of like this original post, certain posts that follow.

[saltpoint]

136. My definition of "post-feminism," if there has to BE one at all, is anyone who

understands the creative and imaginal and who lived in years following Sappho, to pick one of the Gals on the Ground in olden times.

Everything else is the awed comment on her life.

Which is to say, "post-Anything" in the modern world is useful n applicable terms but not in the root-level philosophical terms. Feminism is a philosophical pursuit, much to its credit.

When you combine "feminism" with politics, you need to get something better than Hillary Clinton.

[boppers]

141. Is the the best women have to offer?

Seriously.

Is Hillary the best? Saying yes.... well...

[kwenu]

145. I'm a clear Obama supporter and I agree that reporting where Hillary was when her husband was

cheating is just garbage. In the same, vein however, I don't care who the prostitute was who had Eliot Spitzer as a client. That is also garbage reporting. I don't know that this type of reporting is a feminist issue though, my sense is that it is reflective of what journalism has become and indicative of the poor state of American intellect.

[Viking12]

147. maybe it's a good thing they're looking at the blue dress....

...beacuse the documents show that, "When it comes to the essential test of the trade debate, Clinton has been identified as a liar -- a put-in-boldface-type "L-I-A-R" liar."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080320/cm_thenation/1300860

[krkaufman]

149. I don't see what it has to do with feminism.

It simply seems like standard media dredging for the worst muck they can find, to get the best id-driven ratings possible. As we've seen for the last week or more, the media is just as happy to dish dirt on men. (see Spitzer, Patterson)