UPDATED: Of the VP candidates being vetted, whom do you prefer?

[Mattforclark]

Poll question: UPDATED: Of the VP candidates being vetted, whom do you prefer?

Now that we know Clark is being vetted.

[Syrinx]

1. Tough choice

Gephardt could probably help in the "rust belt." Edwards and Clark could both help in the South. Probably Clark the most, but I'm not sure. Vilsack? Nobody knows about him. It's between Gephardt, Clark and Edwards. I'm not wise enough to pick one.

[democratreformed]

9. I'm not wise enough to pick one "politically" either...

but I LOOOOOVE Wes Clark. If he were to be the VP candidate, I would definitely feel more secure about the election.

[Jai4WKC08]

2. Gotta be Clark

Only one who can help Kerry stand up to BushCo on Iraq and terrorism.

And he'll kill Cheney in the debate. :bounce:

War Heroes vs. Chickenhawks
Kerry and Clark have more medals than Bush and Cheney have DUIs.

[Selteri]

3. I think Edwards

I think Edwards because of his overall Charisma and his general political experience and record.

[mdguss]

4. None of the above:

He shouldn't pick a former candidate. No need to open old wounds. Vilsack, I guess, is the best of the four, but that's only because he isn't a former candidate.

[King of New Orleans]

10. What old wounds?

Clark, Kerry and Edwards were mostly cordial to each other in the campaign. Even if their supporters here frequently weren't

[mdguss]

12. Lots of old wounds:

Old wounds of Clark saying, "I'm a general and he's a lietunant," which was a really stupid thing to say. If Kerry puts Clark on the ticket we'll be hearing that one 5,000 times. While it might not matter to the people here, it will blur Kerry's message to undecided voters. Or the intern thing--whether or not its true that Clark said it, it's still there.

Or Edwards' and Dean's spat when "He just lied about my record," the Gephardt/Dean/Lieberman death match. The media said it was a positive campaign, but it really wasn't. It was a well-run, well-fought, hard campaign. Those come with bruises. Additionally, there's no need to upset one candidate's supporters by picking another candidate. I can gaurantee that if Dean or Gephardt ends up on the ticket--the other's supporters won't be too pleased.

As I see it, here's why each of the former candidates shouldn't be chosen. Edwards won't make any noise because he is the conventional pick. Clark is inexperienced, and the stakes are too high to risk goof ups like the general comment. Dean self-destructed his own campaign. Who knows if he'd do that again. Gephardt has been around for a long-time, but never really won. He therefore doesn't attract lots of passion in activist circles. Lieberman was chosen the last time, and is absolutely hated by the left; I'd kind of like to see him chosen as a finger in the eye of the Greens and Nader, but realistically, the ticket has to be at least nominally acceptable to them. Graham is a little bit on the older side--picking a younger candidate might help Kerry--who's at the beginning of the baby boom generation in terms of age. Kucinich is too far to the left, and a little too far off the beaten path. Braun has too much baggage from a career in the often corrupt Illonis State House. Sharpton has too much bagage from the Twana Brawley incident.

All of these guys are ok, but they've shown their voice in the primary. The Democratic Party needs to reach out and expand its voice. Including a former candidate doesn't do that. Somebody fresh like Evan Bayh, Mark Warner, Mary Landrieu, etc. would have more of an appeal, and would be a better candidate for Kerry to run with. I really hope he doesn't pick Clark, as I'm skeptical that he has what it takes to run a disciplined campaign. There are no mulligans on this one.

[Adelante]

14. How very silly

These are grown-ups, not children. What is said or done in a primary race does not carry over to the general election. Did you see Wes Clark endorse John Kerry 36 hours after dropping out of the race? Did you see John Kerry salute Wes Clark that day in Wisconsin? They both showed all of us where they were with each other. They were friends before the primary and they are friends now that it is over. The "intern thing" is not there and never was there. It was a right wing smear job abetted by opponent Democrats. Unfortunately, some Democrats here on DU enjoy repeating nonsense such as this. Pathetic.

[mdguss]

20. No Wes Clark enjoyed repeating the nonsense:

Quoted by several mainstream sources as saying, "I'm staying in the race because Kerry's campaign might implode over an intern issue." It shows his lack of experience. I repeat, the margin for error this time is 0. There's no reason to take a chance on an unproven candidate. Clark would be fine as a Secretary of State.

Realisitically, after the intern thing broke, the only chance Clark had to salvage his political future within the Democratic Party was to endorse Kerry. By then it was clear that Kerry was going to be the nominee, and by then it was clear that the party wanted everybody on board.

[RafterMan]

21. Mainstream media sources

who were quoting the DRUDGE REPORT!

The mainstream media, when they checked, could find noone in the alleged group of reporters who agreed with Drudge's account.

[Adelante]

23. You should do your homework

Wes Clark never said it. Every reporter who was present came forward and confirmed he never said it. Kerry knows Wes never said it. Everybody who bothers to learn about this sorry incident knows Wes Clark never said it. It was a lie from start to finish.

Now, listen.

Wesley Clark had nothing to do with the false assertions made by the Drudge Report and then compounded by the European scandal press and right wing media in this country, which were started by opponent Democrats. And repeated endlessly by OTHER DEMOCRATS here at DU.

When Sean Hannity said, "The reason this story is out there is because Wesley Clark wanted it out there," Washington Post reporter Cici Connally corrected him on live television. She said she had spoken with the journalists present at the off-the-record conversation during which Clark is supposed to have remarked on an impending scandal concerning Senator Kerry and an "intern." She verified that Gen. Clark had said no such thing; in fact, the topic was never under discussion. Ryan Lizza wrote in The New Republic that he was present and Clark never said it. He asked every other reporter who was there and they all said Clark never said it. Newsweek acknowledged to Frenchie in an email that they regretted having published it.

Craig Crawford, formerly with the Congressional Quarterly and now a columnist with MSNBC, retracted a statement cited in a leaked-to-Drudge memo of his that pointed to Chris Lehane of Clark's staff as the originator of the smear against Sen. Kerry. He told Joe Conason of Salon on February 13: "The comments attributed to me are from a private email to television news associates based on conversations with Democratic campaign operatives. I did not consider any of it confirmed enough to report or publish. I can only verify that Chris Lehane's rivals in other Democratic campaigns made these claims and I have found no independent source to confirm it. Which is why we did not go with the story. But then someone sent my email to others, which is the only reason it got into the public domain."

Further, Gen. Clark has denied any such statement and Chris Lehane has denied peddling the potential scandal. And, of course, the young woman and Sen. Kerry have both denied there was ever an affair in the first place.

Why on earth would Clark have dropped out if he thought Kerry's campaign was about to implode over a sex scandal? Why would he associate himself so thoroughly with a campaign on the skids? Common sense dictates if Gen. Clark believed Kerry's campaign would soon be bogged down by scandal, he would have stayed in the race himself past Tennessee and on to Wisconsin, where he was doing very well in the polls and had considerable support on the ground.

This is nothing more than a right wing smear campaign aided and abetted by foolish Democrats who repeat it.

[BootinUp]

24. I would add to that, but you thoroughly covered it n/t

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

42. Do you rely on

Drudge for all your news or just the political stuff?

[Melodybe]

5. I want Edwards, people really connect with him.

As much as I respect Clark, I think Edwards is the best choice.

[Quixote1818]

51. Republicans don't connect with Edwards like they do Clark

[FrenchieCat]

6. Duh.....

Wes Clark of course! This ain't the time to trust the media who sold many on Edwards and will SELL HIM OUT in a media minute!

Clark is the only one that will shore up Kerry's weak National Security flank and define the Kerry ticket as the Heavy Medal War Hero ticket to pit against the Wartime incumbent president and his mighty VP, the War Zeros!

Clark is articulate, Rhode Scholar scary smart, hard angle Good looking but humble, and a real attack dog....though done in a smooth but profound way. He's an outsider who'll get results. The one who was against the war all along. The one that correctly predicted Iraq exactly as we see it today. The one that put the flood lights on Bush's shortcomings on 9/11 long before the other Clarke spoke out. The one who started the discussion of Bush's war service record. The one who started the ball rolling in saying that dissent is patriotic! The one who first stated that the flag did not belong to the Republicans. The one who correctly linked religious faith to Democratic family values, e.g., Jobs and health care. The one called a Republican throughout the primaries (good for the general election I believe!)

When the Republican party starts talking about not switching horses in the middle of the stream (cause now they've got it right!)....we can say....BUT THE HORSE WE GOT IS WAY MORE EXPERIENCED FOLKS!

We get more Veteran votes, we get more southern vote, we get the Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana, Oaklahoma, Wisconsin and New Mexico vote....We even get tbe majority NASCAR Dad votes plus the Security Mom votes (formerly known as the Soccer Moms)....hell they may be hesitant in voting Kerry....but they ain't gonna turn their backs on a real live 4 star General....As they start realizing that the Bush Machismo is nothing but a myth! They will happily vote for a southern General during these scary times(yes, they are scared....just like us of what Bush will do next...just don't want to admit it! The NASCAR Dads want someone to vote for.......it's all about mano mano imagery and pride for them!

The April Marist poll showed that the issue of National Security tops the concerns of 53% of Americans (the War on Terra (33%) and the Iraq Situation (20%)) while the economy is at 44% http://www.maristpoll.marist.edu/usapolls/PZ040426.htm

"but support from women is not Kerry's biggest problem. Closing the male side of the gender gap is." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4863243 /

The quote above from this article should remind us all of the meme that was being floated in New Hampshire back in January (the one that spurred all of the "sweater stories"....that Wes was not polling as well with women....but was doing extremely well with the male vote).

And the best part is that the Repugs already threw all of their garbage at Clark during the Primaries...

Shelton said, and I quote....when asked about the comments that he made on Wes Clark's character....when called by the Hague Procecutor, during the Misolovic trial back in December....."it's just politics".

[Leilani]

7. Ditto Frenchie

Wow, what a wonderful Wes post!

But you forgot 1 thing: He is HOT!!!!

[robbedvoter]

8. What she said.

Why is this a hard question? The guy who opposed the war vs the one who would have started it on his own? The guy speaking about the 911 failures against the one who still thinks 911 justifies Iraq?
The guy who is proclaiming himself a liberal vs the Lieberman without the civil rights credentials"
:shrug:

[Mz Pip]

22. Hi Frenchie

Good to see you're still around! :hi:

I'd love to see a Cheney/Clark debate. Cheney is such a weasel but Clark knows how to handle weasels.

MzPip
:dem:

[FrenchieCat]

27. Hey MzPip!

What's up? Glad to hear from ya too!

[Cuban_Liberal]

11. Clark will win this poll, like he does every poll at DU.

He quite simply has more supporters here than anyone else...:shrug:

[democratreformed]

15. Peace

We just can't help it. We simply love the man.

[robbedvoter]

18. Geez, why would that be in your opinion?

[Cuban_Liberal]

36. Because it's true.

:shrug:

[Jai4WKC08]

25. "He quite simply has more supporters here than anyone else..."

Duh. It's because DUers 1) are more LIBERAL than voters as a whole, and 2) DUers are more INFORMED and less dependent on corporate media (that's redundant) than voters as a whole.

[Cuban_Liberal]

37. It's also because the Clark blog told them to register here.

Sorry, but DU in no way reflects the sentiments of the Democratic party as a whole.

(#42) (Rated 5.00/1)
by jerseyshore (Jerseyshore@clark,com) on 01/07/2004 02:07:42 PM EST
Reply

DU Members Only Vote:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=75 797




http://chat.forclark.com/comments/2004/1/7/134240/9602/42#42

[Adelante]

45. Excuse me

There is nothing wrong with alerting DU members to a DU poll. It's not like they're aliens, for goodness sake. See? "DU Members Only"

[dogman]

46. All this fancy technology isn't fair.

What's wrong with you, showing an ability to communicate? Next thing you'll be organizing a real grassroots movement. Don't you know your supposed to hire a PR firm to tell people what to do?

[Cuban_Liberal]

54. I don't want to re-hash this.

The 'Clark invasion' was well-documented here, with appropriate links to the blog encouraging supporters to register here, which is why Clark wins every poll here. He didn't do nearly so well among the democratic mainstream in the primaries, in case that escaped your attention... :eyes:

[Jai4WKC08]

53. I believe that's what I said

You are correct--DU does not "reflect the sentiments" of the party as a whole. As I said, we tend to be more liberal and more importantly, we are without a doubt more INFORMED than most voters, Democratic or otherwise. That's why we know more about both Clark and Edwards than what you see in the mainstream media, and judge accordingly.

Let me go one further. DU'ers are on the whole more determined to see Kerry win in November than most voters, even some Democratic voters. We tend to think strategically about it. It's no accident that a number of DU folks who did NOT support Clark for president are starting to see the wisdom of his being Kerry's running mate.

As for the assertion in your subject (but not your text), there was an influx of Clark people to DU, but it started LAST FALL. I was one of those. I had signed up with my local party office after the travesty of the 2000 election, and done some small amount of grunt work for my Democratic Congressman back in 2002, but never really gotten involved in politics on-line until I joined the Draft Clark movement. I had NEVER heard of DU, and only found out about it from another Clark supporter (a long-time DU member, fwiw). So I joined--so sue me. It doesn't make me a freeper and didn't then, for all that some people here seemed to claim. The very fact that we have come to stay should sort of prove that.

Clark's campaign started in Sept 2003, and really began to blossom in Oct thru Dec (as evidenced by his incredible on-line fund-raising in the 4th quarter--more than anyone but Dean, and only a little behind him). Wouldn't you expect Clark's on-line presence to start growing about that time? That would include DU. So what? Do you think we weren't Democrats before and so were somehow unworthy of joining your august membership? Isn't that pretty much the same lie that was leveled at Clark himself?

I dare say a whole bunch of people really got interested in the Democratic primary race during the fall of '03. And I'll bet that DU participation grew accordingly, including people who backed any one of the other candidates. We Clark people just came in greater numbers, and stood out more because there wasn't a Clark campaign before then. Duh.

Clark and Dean are generally credited with exciting more people into getting involved ACTIVELY in the party and in this election. Dean did it over a period of two years, whereas Clark's campaign lasted less than 5 months. But there aren't many stupid enough to be sorry for what either of them brought to the party, or to any organization or activity even remotedly affiliated with the party or with liberal causes.

Not many, but obviously still a few.

[Cuban_Liberal]

55. I never said it made you 'freepers', ffs!

What I clearly said was that support for Clark here is disproportionately high due to the influx of Clark supporters here---which you agree with. :wtf:

[Jai4WKC08]

58. You may not have used the word "freeper"

But the implication is the same. And the word "freeper" was used many times as more and more Clark supporters came to DU.

The "influx" of Clark supporters after he entered the race is no more significant than the "influx" of Dean supporters during the course of his campaign. The latter was just spread out over a longer period.

Bottom line is that Clark does better on these polls because more DUers who happen to respond to polls prefer Clark. When we got here is irrelevant.

[democratreformed]

57. One more point about this:

There's no reason why other blogs could not have done the exact same thing. It's much like when someone puts up a thread on here that says "DU this poll".

On edit: For the record, I was on DU BEFORE Clark entered the race. Not that it matters, but I thought that I would add that anyway.

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. Wes Clark!

Go Wes!

[mondo joe]

16. My brain says Clark, my gut says Edwards

I've never in my life been known to go with my gut over my brains, but this time I am.

Kerry is too much of a cold fish - not that I mind that, but a lot of people do. I know we need Edwards in there to complement Kerry and give some warmth to the ticket.

[Jai4WKC08]

26. Did you happen to look at the photo

In the post right above yours? Msg #13?

How can you say that man doesn't EXUDE warmth? Even heat?

How many of Clark's speeches did you hear first-hand? I don't recall any in the mainstream media until he withdrew (and that was cut-off). When he was shown at all, it was by himself (getting a haircut, flipping pancakes), or using camera angles that hid the crowds.

I've seen Clark speak in person 3 times now, and on C-SPAN many many times. The man knows how to bring the house down.

And that's not just my opinion. At both the KS and NE Democratic party dinners, all the state leadership were amazed at the reactions of the audience. They said it privately as well as publicly. As they raked in more money than ever before.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Use your brains for goodness sakes!

This is the list for those with brains as to what Clark brings to the table:

Had strong polls numbers nationally and in many states (southwest & the south) until the media tried smearing him....They then gave up and started ignoring him instead....

Southern and comes from a battleground state

Applied and tested National Security credentials

Name recognition nationally and internationally

attractive in a masculine manner with humble star magnetism

Articulate

attack pitbull that doesn't take any shit

attracts both the left and the right and the middle

shores up Veteran vote

shores up Security Mom vote (formally Soccer moms)

Shores up Nascar Dad votes (it's the machismo of a General on the ticket appeal)

was Nato commander who won a war w/t no casualties and is a genuine 4 star

Negotiated peace treaty

Will better Muslim relations (saved 1.4 million Albanian Muslims)
was endorsed by the Arab's largest magazine

Knows the pentagon inside out....Dick Cheney and knows where the bodies are buried

Knows the State Department.....has Security clearance

Self made man from humble roots

38 years of public service with no votes to dig up

Married 36 years to same woman.

Son served in Armed services as well

has voted Republican in the past (this is now an advantage)

has a strong "stand-alone" organization--Internet and on the ground
Stellar fundraiser

Rhode scholar = intelligence

Genuine War hero

Masters in Economics

Has Commander in Chief experience/Executive

Soros liked him....Buffet donated to him....Hollywood loves him

He was the second choice of many...and Many wanted him as Dean's VP

was against the Iraq war and was very prophetic in it's outcome

knows those who work in Washington on both sides of the aisle

not typical politician....not an insider

Ultimate patriot

Can speak on faith

was on debate team at West point.....and when participating in a REAL debate, will wipe the floor with Cheney.

Is a positive selfless man who is energetic, in excellent health
Is not a "I, I, I" man -

The Right Wing is scared of him

Understands what PNAC represents and is not afraid to talk about it.

Originated some of the best lines of the campaign...including, Going Toe to toe with Bush....They will not take this flag away from this party....Bush did not do all that he could do before 9/11....

Is being quoted by Nader and was endorsed by Michael Moore...which shores up those who are supporters of each to do the "right thing".

Was already vetted by the media during the campaign...and vetted by a Republican Congress as recently as 1997.

Want's Bush out really, really, really badly....



What does Edwards bring to the table again?

[adadem]

17. None of the above. n/t

[Mountainman]

19. I'd pay to see Clark debate Cheney

Cheney with that natural snarl and Clark with his natural smile. There isn't one lie that Cheney could get away with if he had to go up against Clark one on one.

[citizen snips]

29. Edwards.

Edwards has connected with many conservatives and independents. Edwards has good experience and is a good campaigner.

[Leilani]

30. John Kerry will get the voters

who are unhappy with the economy & other domestic issues.

What Kerry needs, & EVERY poll shows, is more strength on Foreign Policy, War in Iraq, & National Security.

We need a General for the mess in Iraq. That is the #1 issue with voters, & it will not get better. In fact, it will get worse!!!

[Bread and Circus]

31. I remember when us Clarkies first came to DU, it was kinda

hostile to Clark then. Good to see the Clark support now.

And it also goes to show we didn't come here just to spam
pro Clark memes as we were sometimes accused of.

I love DU and I hope Clark is VP.

[Leilani]

32. It also shows how valuable Clark really is

At first, there was a lot of suspicion of Clark. But as people got to know him, he gradually earned their respect.

If Clark is on the ticket, Americans will come to the same conclusion.

[dogman]

33. I supported Clark for President but

I didn't know if he would be the best choice for VP. Looking at the Kerry campaign so far and the current polls, I believe Clark is clearly the logical and best choice at this time. Kerry's time in the military does not give him the credibility that would be enhanced by Clark. Clark clearly understands team building and has the most Foreign Policy experience, actually having participated in international diplomacy. This is seen in the polling as Kerry's weakest point vs. B$$$co. After watching what the amateurs have done to our military and with Clark clearly predicting what is currently going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, I believe the American people would have increased faith in a Kerry/Clark ticket.

[Carolinian]

34. This is silly

This is another farce poll. I read on the Clark Blog how the Clark-flarks are planning on hurling their cookies then voting over and over again. How silly and immature can you get!

[FrenchieCat]

35. What is silly....

is that you think that this is all based on an Internet poll.

You must be in denial. Can't think of another reason you posted what you did.

I keep having to address these "weird" posts....why is that?

[Carolinian]

38. What's silly

is this "poll".

[dogman]

39. Hey! Paste a link

to your claim or it's meaningless. I think there are enough intelligent people that come to this sight for Clark to have a good showing.

[FrenchieCat]

40. You can't delete "Cookies"....

and vote in a DU poll. It's by registration of membership......

[KittyWampus]

41. You Know What's Silly? Every Post You've Made Seems To Disrespect Clark

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Adelante]

44. She's a busy little bee tonight

Buzzing from thread to thread. No sting, though. :(

[Scoopie]

43. At least we didn't hire a PR firm to do it

Money can't buy you love...

Still - you can't "de-cookie" a DU poll!


Oh... and I'm Lara... not rezmutt. :P

Sorry, you're not very good at sleuthing, perhaps? :shrug:

[VOX]

47. My heart says Edwards, but my brain says Clark.

And the brain wins out on this one.

[Scoopie]

48. Hi Rezmutt!

Sorry some misinformed Edwards fan (and you are an Edwards fan, too, but this gal is on a tirade) accused you of being me.
I'm not so bad, really, but I'm sure you're glad that you are you and I am me.
:D

[VOX]

50. Thanks, Scoopie!

I saw the dust-up on the the thread I posted about Clark, but it was teetering on the brink on incoherence for me. Regardless, it looks like all her posts in that thread have now been deleted.

Scoopie, I'm glad to to be mistaken for you any time! (Who said that???:) )

Best to you -- :toast:

[juajen]

49. Well, finally you put in Clark

Go Wesley. He smiles and the world lights up.

[elperromagico]

52. Clark wasn't leaked to the press as being vetted

until just a couple of days ago.

That being said, I think Kerry/Clark would be a great ticket. Pity we can't somehow produce a Clark-Edwards hybrid, though. Kerry/Clarwards? ;)

[LeinesRed]

56. Clark's Wisconsin commercials kicked ass...

I'm not sure who was in charge of his "message" but it sure looked good here. Kerry/Clark it's gotta be

[iowa_democrat]

59. God I hope it isn't Vilsack

Vilsack has been a very good governor,and his term is up soon. I do not think Iowa will be close again this year (like 2000). I think it is Kerry's. Someone once told me that Iowa goes Rethug when times are good, and pretty reliably Democratic when times are hard. I think now qualifies. I would MUCH rather see Clark or Edwards. This is not a place for a "surprise" candidate. The war really hurts bush in this state.

Give some love to Art Small. He is running against Grassley in Iowa this year. The medicare fiasco hasn't helped grassley, but the head of the senate finance committee is a pretty tough nut.


http://www.artsmallforsenate.com/


Iowa Democrat