What exactly has Rev. Wright said that you disagree with???

[polichick]

His style is over the top, but are the actual words wrong?

If you think so, WHICH WORDS do you disagree with?

[uponit7771]

1. They wont answer, I've asked this question and kicked it with replies and all I got....

...was Jesus wasn't black but the same person admitted that neither was he a blue eyed white guy either.

[polichick]

Oh, I see - I've been working on the campaign and I'm out of the loop...

...but I don't disagree with the words I've heard in clips so far.

[uponit7771]

21. WHAT do you disagree with?

[polichick]

51. Lol - well that's a can of worms you might not want to open...

...I have no use for religion at all ~ imo RELIGION DIVIDES while SPIRITUALITY UNITES.

[joeybee12]

10. Sweetie pie, we answer...

...you just don't listen, but yell your opinion...which, hard for yoiu to believe, is not fact...back at others.

[uponit7771]

25. Whatever, I kicked that thing forever and didn't have anyone say what was false or even try to prove

[joeybee12]

39. What he said is NOT Truth and NOT lies...stop framing it that way...

...it is OPINION and you can agree with it or not, and a lot of people will disagree with what he said.

[uponit7771]

59. Good, I never got that in the OP...I would've liked someone to just say that.

[KittyWampus]

31. no, you regurgitate mischaracterizations. You must not be a democrat or fairly ignorant.

Because Wright merely talked about things like:

Blowback (we created the Mujahadeem and bin Laden/al Qaida)
Crack channeled into minority neighborhoods (to pay for arming the Mujahadeem and Contras)
Prison privitzation (big business needing inmates to thrive)
Social Injustice (blacks being disproportionate numbers of incarcerated

[joeybee12]

45. Sweetheart, I am pointing out that he is voicing his opinion...and I don't

agree with lots of it, as will lots of other people...what about the God damn America part, don't you think that OPINION will offend people? He could have said all he wanted to get across a lot better.

Sorry if you can't agree with someone and call them ignorant...pretty pathetic.

And don;t you think people who had people who died in 9-11 might be offended by saying it was our fault...all he says is framed by ignorance and hate.

[Goblinmonger]

70. I, too, think god damn America

for what we have done to blacks.

Well, I'm an atheist so the god bit is more for effect than it would be for the Rev, but you get the point.

[joeybee12]

46. Sweetheart, I am pointing out that he is voicing his opinion...and I don't

agree with lots of it, as will lots of other people...what about the God damn America part, don't you think that OPINION will offend people? He could have said all he wanted to get across a lot better.

Sorry if you can't agree with someone and call them ignorant...pretty pathetic.

And don;t you think people who had people who died in 9-11 might be offended by saying it was our fault...all he says is framed by ignorance and hate.

[KittyWampus]

61. he didn't say "God dam America". He said "....... God Dam America......." with lots of context

you need to carve away so you can twist the meaning.

It's one thing to say his rhetoric is politically incorrect or raw. But the FACTS he points to are irrefutable.

And if you don't think 9/11 happened because of blowback, you are either uniformed or not a Democrat and unable to see political reality.

[Maat]

55. Well, all of those things are true.

The U.S. did create the Mujahadeen and Bin Laden, and built a training facility for the Mujahadeen (Al Qaeda).

Crack was channeled into minority neighborhoods, and drug-running was part of Iran-Contra.

Prison and the Drug War are big business and do need inmates to thrive.

Moreover, there is a great disparity in the proportional incarceration of the races.

Clinton does not understand what it is like to be a black man (she's never been one).

I haven't heard anything so far that isn't true.

[Rex_Goodheart]

20. We've answered you over and over and over again.

[KittyWampus]

23. no, you've just repeated a few butchered quotes out of context.

[Rex_Goodheart]

68. You've been answered

It's not true that our government gives drugs to black people for the purpose of imprisoning them.

It's not true that our government deliberately spreads AIDS to black people to kill themn.

It's not true that white people prefer to build prisons to incarcerate blacks over universities to educate us all.

It's not true that this country could be fairly characterized as the US of KKKA

It's not true that God should not bless this country.

It's not true that God should damn this country.

[Goblinmonger]

74. well

1. There is some debate here about the CIA. But to more provable facts, why do you think the penalties for crack are more than those for cocaine? Could it POSSIBLY be due in part to the fact that cocaine is the drug of choice of rich whites while crack not so much?

2. The government certainly didn't do much to stop AIDS though now did it? Remember Reagan?

3. Of course this is true. Why do you think we have the three strikes you're out law? We have a prison economy that fuels a lot of small towns and a lot of big business. These only make money if there is more people in them. The money going to imprison blacks at a higher rate than whites (when whites create more crimes--as they should given the % of population) could be use much more effectively to improve inner city schools. Seriously you don't belive this one.

4. Put yourself in the shoes of Rev Wright (read up on the shit he has been through during his life) and tell my you wouldn't tend to see a very hostile USA that appears more like the KKK than an accepting nation.

5. Depends on 1-4 and if there is a god.

6. Depends on 1-4 and if there is a god.

[Ka hrnt]

134. For the love of Pete....

1. "Could it POSSIBLY be due in part to the fact that cocaine is the drug of choice of rich whites while crack not so much?"
Anything's possible. Far more reasonable--and likely--reasons though can be found here:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2007/09/29/the-supreme-court-will-consider-disparities-of-sentencing-for-crack-and-powder-cocaine.html
"The limited research available suggested that crack was more addictive than its powder form, caused greater prenatal harm, and was linked to more violence."

And way to stereotype and speculate.

2. "The government certainly didn't do much to stop AIDS though now did it?"

Not "doing much" to stop and deliberately infecting are two completely different things.

3. "Of course this is true."

I don't suppose you have any actual, factual PHYSICAL evidence of this, do you? No? *shocked* (This is a new one on me, and ranks right up there with MIHOP.)

4. "Put yourself in the shoes of Rev Wright..."

The KKK is a fringe group of loonies with a membership of a whopping 3,000 people in a country of 300,000,000. He just compared the whole country to that 0.001% fringe element. If the races/situation were reversed--not that I can think of a black equivalent of the KKK...--I think it would be a safe to say he'd be cast as a racist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan#Later_Klans

5. "Depends on 1-4 and if there is a god."

:eyes:

[DebJ]

88. I know lots of white people who would rather see blacks in

prison then educated.... and I am white. I live in Pa. The rich districts (I use the term district very loosely, since this usually includes all of one high school and the lower schools that feed into it...cronyism).. will jazz their schools up with every possible electronic gadget and new texts, while the city schools at times can not even get paper and pencils (there was a teacher walk out near Philly in the last two years because they could not get even paper)....The rich white guys here think that they are protecting their
children by giving them everything and denying a fair education to 'other' children...its just me, me, me, mine. This is not a community. When you don't educate and
won't hire, prison is the next opportunity.

[Rex_Goodheart]

94. I doubt that you know "lots" of white people who feel that way...

Sorry.

I don't know a single one.

[DebJ]

105. Yes, I do know them. When I first moved to Pa from Md, I was

very puzzled by the school system here. I asked them to explain it to me. I said what about your neighbors a few miles
away whose school can't get supplies. Responses were like: Why should I care? Why should a single penny of what I earn
help some other kid? They are terrified to go into the city, seeing it as dangerous. I've knocked on hundreds of doors
campaigning with no problems, and lots of friendly faces and people that let a perfect stranger come right into their living
room. Need I say the city is black, and the suburbs are so lily white you need sunglasses?
The many people who have responded to my inquiries this way are very open about it . . . because it is a common 'community value',
or shall we say, anti-community value, so they feel no need to hide their opinions.

[stillcool]

117. Okay!!

Now we have something to work with.
#1.

Congressional Black Caucus demands investigation
More than 1,500 blacks attend meeting

Published: Sept. 13, 1996

BY VANESSA GALLMAN
and LEWIS KAMB
Mercury News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON -- At an angry meeting that drew an audience of more than 1,500, members of the Congressional Black Caucus Thursday called for an investigation into Central Intelligence Agency connections to a San Francisco Bay Area drug ring that helped touch off the ''crack'' cocaine epidemic of the 1980s.

The revelations were raised in the Mercury News' three-part series last month, ''Dark Alliance,'' which detailed how a drug ring based on the Peninsula sold tons of cocaine to the street gangs of South-Central Los Angeles and funneled millions in drug profits to a CIA-run guerrilla army. The series traced the crack cocaine explosion to two Nicaraguan cocaine dealers, Danilo Blandon and Norwin Meneses, who were civilian leaders of the Frente Democratica Nicaraguense (FDN), an anti-communist commando group formed and run by the CIA during the 1980s.
-------------------------------------------

Democratic Rep. Maxine Waters, who represents the Los Angeles area in Congress, praised the crowd ''for having the audacity to be outraged. ... that the government put drugs in our communities.'' She convened the meeting, held during the annual gathering of the Congressional Black Caucus.

The Mercury News' series reported that Danilo Blandon, a former Nicaraguan government official, was the conduit for thousands of kilos of cocaine that flowed to the Los Angeles street gangs between 1982 and 1986.

Blandon, who pleaded guilty to cocaine trafficking charges in 1992 and went to work for the Drug Enforcement Administration as an informant, recently testified in federal court that he sold the cocaine in the city's black neighborhoods as a way to raise money for the guerrilla army seeking to overthrow a revolutionary socialist government.

His biggest customer was a drug kingpin, Rick ''Freeway'' Ross, who turned the drugs into crack, a cheaper, smokable form of cocaine. Ross is now in jail, set up by Blandon in a 1994 drug bust.

The reporting reinforces conspiracy theories deeply held by some blacks, going back to rumors that the government used heroin to weaken the Black Panther Party, a black nationalist group popular in the 1960s.

Such theories have gained momentum in recent years as prisons have increasingly filled with black street dealers and addicts.
http://www.narconews.com/darkalliance/drugs/scrip915.htm

Wed, 18 Sep 1996:

WASHINGTON (Reuter) - The CIA has been thrown on the defensive by charges that it helped flood U.S. ghettos with cocaine to finance rebels fighting Nicaragua"s Marxist government in the 1980s.

CIA Director John Deutch, under pressure from the Congressional Black Caucus and a wide range of others, has ordered an internal probe of the charges, which appeared in a three-part series last month in the San Jose Mercury News.

"Although I believe there is no substance to the allegations in the Mercury News, I do wish to dispel any lingering public doubt on the subject," Deutch wrote to the heads of the congressional intelligence oversight committees and two members of the California delegation on Sept. 4.

He said he had asked the CIA's inhouse watchdog, Inspector General Frederick Hitz, to finish within 60 days a review of "all the allegations concerning the agency published by the newspaper."

And what a set of allegations it is. Rep. Cynthia McKinney, a Georgia Democrat, lashed out Wednesday on the House floor at what she called the "Central Intoxication Agency," calling the drug allegations a "cloud of shame."

In its series titled "Dark Alliance," the Mercury News detailed a scheme that allegedly funneled tons of cocaine to black Los Angeles neighborhoods and returned millions in drug profits to a CIA-funded guerrilla army in Nicaragua.

"It is one of the most bizarre alliances in modern history: the union of a U.S.-backed army attempting to overthrow a revolutionary socialist government and the Uzi-toting "gangstas" of Compton and South-Central Los Angeles," the paper said.

The series traced the U.S. crack cocaine epidemic to two Nicaraguan drug dealers, Danilo Blandon and Norwin Meneses, who were civilian leaders of the CIA-backed FDN, the largest Nicaraguan "Contra" group fighting to overthrow the leftist Sandinista government.

Citing newly declassified material, court testimony and interviews, the paper alleged the pair had been recruited by the CIA to raise money for the Contras and turned to drug-running with at least tacit spy agency approval.

In his letter to members of Congress, Deutch said the CIA had "never had any relationship with either Blandon or Meneses." Nor, contrary to the newspaper report, had it sought to have information regarding either of them withheld at the recent trial of a convicted Los Angeles drug dealer, he said.

The internal CIA investigation under way seems unlikely to satisfy many prominent blacks and others who want an independent probe. On Saturday, the White House drug control policy director, retired Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey, joined those calling for a "full and thorough investigation."

Asked if the CIA would welcome an outside probe, spokesman Mark Mansfield declined to answer directly but said: "We will cooperate fully with any review of this matter."

An investigator who looked into Contra drug trafficking for a Senate panel in the late 1980s said he concluded that individual CIA officers in the field knew of the trafficking but the information was not passed up their chain of command.

http://www.lycaeum.org/drugwar/DARKALLIANCE/dark2.html

August 30, 1996
Janet Reno
Attorney General
10th & Constitutional Ave., NW
Washington, D.C. 20530

Dear Madam General:


I am writing on an issue of utmost concern to me, my constituents, and, indeed, the fair application of justice in our society.

As you are probably aware, the San Jose Mercury News did a recent series of newspaper articles outlining the origins of the crack cocaine trade in the United States. What those articles traced, among other things, is the long-term relationship between Norwin Meneses, a Nicaraguan drug trafficker, Danilo Blandon, a Nicaraguan businessperson connected to the Contra rebels as well as a drug trader, and Rick Ross, an American who worked with Blandon distributing crack cocaine in this country. These individuals represent a much broader and more troubling relationship between U.S. intelligence and security policy, drug smuggling, and the spread of crack cocaine into the United States.

The information contained in the newspaper articles -- as well as related issues highlighted in other fora over the past several years -- raises concerns on many different levels. But what is clearly established by the San Jose Mercury News is the implication of the United States government, in particular the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), in using the services of both Meneses and Blandon, and their use of the proceeds of drug sales to implement CIA-directed efforts to raise money for weapons to overthrow the Sandinista government in Nicaragua. Thus, portions of this country may have been exposed, indeed introduced, to the horror of crack cocaine because certain U.S.-government paid or organized operatives smuggled, transported, and sold it to American citizens.

Crack cocaine has ravaged many communities in this country. You know I am deeply concerned about this problem. In addition to the stress caused by crack cocaine use, I am also terribly disturbed by the heavy-handed, arbitrary, and discriminatory mandatory minimum sentences which politicians have attached to crack cocaine use and possession. These sentences have the effect of severely punishing small-time users, and are prosecuted in a discriminatory way which disproportionately impacts African-American males.

In contrast, the San Jose Mercury News documents the exceeding light punishment that has been applied to both Meneses and Blandon, despite their years of involvement in massive scale drug trading. Again, the notion that a U.S.-government agency knew about the drug-tainted resources that were funding a war in Nicaragua, and the idea that those involved allowed a major infusion of cocaine onto the streets of America because of its blind devotion to win a war -- a war which was at the time being conducted secretly -- is among the more devastating assertions one could make about this government. As someone who has seen how the crack cocaine trade has devastated the South-Central Los Angeles community, and as a public official, I cannot exaggerate my feelings of dismay that my own government may have played a part in the origins and history of this problem.

Moreover, Danilo Blandon, is currently on the payroll of the government of the United States, an agent for the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). This mastermind drug dealer recently testified against Rick Ross, in essence freeing himself for the years of torment, devastation, and ruined lives for which he is responsible. Blandon's testimony against Ross is only the most recent example of a large-scale, international drug importer who scapegoats a local distributer for his own evils. Amazingly, by virtue of Blandon's years of pumping drugs into this country, his intimate knowledge of the inner-workings of drug trafficking, and his connections to the crack cocaine trade in the U.S. -- and thus, his ¾use¿ to federal prosecutors -- he has shifted all his responsibility and punishment onto Ross, while Blandon now lives a comfortable life. The unfairness of this arrangement is so obvious so as to offend any American's sense of justice.

As a U.S. Representative of South-Central Los Angeles, one of the communities most ravaged by crack cocaine, I have a keen desire to get answers to the many questions that have been raised by the San Jose Mercury News expose.

As you know, in the late 1980s, Congress held extensive hearings on the connection between foreign policy, narcotics, and law enforcement. Those hearings produced damning evidence of wrongdoing. However, due to continual obstruction, from many different sources -- including federal law enforcement agencies -- those hearings were not able to establish as precise a trail of guilt as the recent San Jose Mercury News article has, at least as it pertains to the origin of the crack cocaine trade in the U.S.

Given the severity of these assertions, I would like to obtain as much information as I can about the particulars of this disturbing case. I see thousands of young men being sent to jail for five, ten, twenty years, with no hope of parole or another chance -- because of relatively small-time drug use and possession. Yet, it seems, our own government may have been a key initiator -- knowingly or unknowingly -- in bringing this killer into our neighborhoods. You can imagine what message this sends to the millions of young people who see their communities destroyed by this foreign substance. A story like this, and the terrible example it sets for those who struggle every day against a drug culture desperate for converts, can ruin years of work to imbue a sense of self-respect and trust in government efforts to break the drug cycle in our communities.

Please know that I want to be in close touch with your office on this matter.I would like to request a full and complete investigation into the connection between law enforcement agencies, most particularly the CIA, and the early-1980s importation of crack cocaine. In addition, I would like to know what actions may have allowed these drug shipments to continue. I would also like to know the status of any efforts to investigate, punish, or prosecute those involved in this matter.

I understand there are legal proceedings underway which makes it more difficult to share certain information. However, much of the information has already been made public, and surely, much more is available. The impact and the implications of the Meneses/Blandon/Ross/Contra/C.I.A. crack cocaine connection cannot be understated. As such, I would request in the most urgent manner I can, that your organization work with me to bring some resolution to this critical matter.

We all have an obligation to get to the very bottom of the origin, development, and implementation of this seedy enterprise. I look forward to working closely with you to bring about greater understanding, a full airing of the events surrounding this incident, and, hopefully, a satisfactory conclusion to this entire ordeal. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Sincerely,

Maxine Waters

[stillcool]

124. #2... Or why the Black Community might...

not trust the US Government as far as science projects are concerned...

AN APOLOGY 65 YEARS LATE
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/health/may97/tuskegee_5-16.html
May 16, 1997
Lasting Legacy

Beginning in 1932, the federal government sponsored a study to examine the impact of syphilis involving black men. The experiment went on until 1972 without the test subjects' knowledge, but no President had apologized to the volunteers and their families until President Clinton did so today. Following a background report on the experiment, Charlayne Hunter-Gault looks at what the legacy of Tuskegee.

A Product of Deep Poverty, Despair and Discrimination
AIDS in Black America

By RALPH NADER


With 13 percent of the U.S. population, black Americans constitute over 50 percent of all new cases of HIV. This infection rate is eight times the rate of whites. It gets worse. Almost 70 percent of new female cases of HIV-positive women are black women who are a stunning 13 times more likely to be diagnosed with AIDS than white women. Black women get AIDS overwhelmingly through heterosexual contact, the documentary reported.

Terry Moran, who did a fine job as anchor, interviewed black leaders working on AIDS and infectious disease specialists to find out why, in very candid exchanges.

In summary:

(1) infection comes more heavily to the black community due to high rates of HIV-positive men coming out of prison,

(2) drug addiction and the widespread use of dirty needles,

(3) the taboo against talking about the problem of homosexual-related AIDS transmission in many black religious circles and

(4) the absence of any comprehensive AIDS prevention and treatment programs that reach the netherworld of community-wide poverty, despair and lack of information.
------------------------------

It is not as if whites are much less drug-addicted. But there is a disproportionate percentage of black men in jail where homosexual contact is the HIV transmitter. Moran pointed to studies from the Universities of Chicago and North Carolina which conclude that black men are more than twice as likely as white men to have multiple female partners.

Still, the disproportions noted in "Out of Control" are so vast between blacks and whites that a deeper condition must be at work here. Call it another vast disproportion. A sub-society of deep poverty, unemployment, despair, street drugs, documented discriminatory law enforcement and prison incarceration rates, the absence of neighborhood public health facilities skilled in addressing the triple needs of testing, prevention and treatment are all incubators without portfolios. A vicious cycle of infection is out of control in these environments.

The social services, such as health coverage, that have restrained the AIDS epidemic among whites are not proportionately there among black communities.
--------------------------------------------------------
You may wonder what the fatality count among blacks is each year. Over ten thousand black Americans died from AIDS last year. The family agonies and deprivations are not compiled in these statistics.

[stillcool]

128. Prisons...

A Report on the Injustice System in the USA
Written by: Pauline (a contributing writer to IPFG’s Publication; Payaam Fadaee)
Published in Payame Fadaee, Spring edition 2002

The US ruling class has established the largest forced labour sweatshop system in the world. There
are now approximately 2 million inmates in US prisons compared to 1 million in 1994. These
prisoners have become a source of billions of dollars in profits. In fact, the US has
imprisoned a half million more people than in China which has 5 times the population.
California alone has the biggest prison system in the Western industrialized world. It has more
prisoners than France, Germany, Great Britain, Japan and Holland combined while these countries
have 11 times the population of California. According to official figures, Iran
incarcerates 220 citizens per 100,000, compared to US figures of 727. Overall, the total
"criminal justice" system in the US, including those in prison, on parole and on probation, is
approaching 6,000,000. In the last 20 years, 1000 new prisons have been built; yet they
hold double their capacity.
Prisoners, 75% of who are either Black or Hispanic, are forced to work for 20 cents an hour, some even as low as 75 cents a day. They produce everything from eyewear and furniture to
vehicle parts and computer software. This has lead to thousands of layoffs and the lowering of
the overall wage scale of the entire working class. At Soledad Prison in California, prisoners
produce work-shirtsexported to Asia as well as El Salvadoran license plates more
cheaply than in El Salvador, one of the poorest countries in the Western Hemisphere. A May/99
report in the Wall Street Journal summarized that while “more expensive private-sector workers may
lose their jobs to prison labour, assigning work to the most cost-efficient producer is good for the economy.” The February/00 Wall Street Journal reported “Prisoners are excluded from employment calculation. And since most inmates are economically disadvantaged and unskilled, jailing so many people has effectively taken a big block of the nation's least-employable citizens out of the equation.”

Federal Prison Industries (FPI) whose trade name is UNICOR exports prisoner-made products as well as selling them to all federal agencies as required by federal law. FPI manufactures over 150 different products in 99 factories in 64 prisons (with 19 new ones on the way) in 30 states. It is the federal government's 35th largest contractor, just behind IBM and is exempt from any federal workplace regulations.
FPI's prison workforce produces 98% of the entire US market for equipment assembly services, 93% of paint and artist brushes, 92% of all kitchen assembly services, 46% of all personal armour, 36% of all household furnishings and 30% of all headset/microphone/speakers, etc. RW. Feb/00 FPI consistently advertises for companies "interested in leasing a ready-to-run prison industry" especially following congressional testimony in 1996 that reported a "pent-up demand for prison labour." Meanwhile, shareholders profiting from prison labour consistently lobby for the legislation of longer prison sentences in order to expand their workforce. At least 37 states have legalized the contracting out of prison labour to private corporations that have already set up operations inside state prisons. Prisons' business clients include: IBM, Boeing, Motorola Microsoft, AT&T Wireless, Texas Instruments, Dell, Compaq, Honeywell, Hewlett-Packard, Nortel, Lucent Technologies, 3Com, Intel, Northern Telecom, TWA, Nordstrom, Revlon, Macys, Pierre Cardin, Target Stores
California, with the third largest penal system in the world after China and the US as a whole, spends more on prisons than on the entire educational system. In recent years, California's university and college system cut back 8,000 employees while its Department of Corrections added 26,000. CA has built 19 prisons vs. 1 university in the past 10 years. The state spends up to $60,000 per year to incarcerate a young person, while only spending $8,000 per year to educate the same youth.
http://www.ashrafdehghani.com/articles-english/on%20pri...
Twin Towers Correction Facility: Largest jail in the world
Location: United States, California, Los Angeles

The Prison Industrial Complex in America: Investment in Slavery
by Venerable Kobutsu Malone, Osho
The United States Constitution Permits Prison Slavery and Involuntary Servitude
-------------------------------
The secure housing, minimal support, minimal medical care and feeding of 2.2 million people is a costly endeavor consuming billions and billions of dollars of taxpayer's money every year in America. Corporations are lined up to receive a portion of the public funds used to support the self-perpetuating incarceration industry. States such as California spend more public funds, tax dollars, your money, my money, on prisons than for education and schools
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The largest network of prison labor is run by the Federal Bureau of Prisons' manufacturing consortium, UNICOR. While paying inmate laborers entry-level wages of 23 cents an hour, UNICOR boasts of gross annual sales (primarily to the Department of Defense) of $250 million.
The correctional-industrial complex therefore relies on a sobering "joint venture" directly relating profits to increased incarceration rates for four kinds of "partners," only the first of whom are those seeking opportunities in prison construction. A second kind of partner stocks these prisons with stun guns, pepper spray, surveillance equipment, and other "disciplinary technology," corporations such as Adtech, American Detention Services, the Correctional Corporation of America and Space Master Enterprises. A third partner finds a state-guaranteed mass of consumers for food and other services in the prisoners themselves, such as Campbell's Soup and Szabo Correctional Services. The fourth partner can be any private industry or state-sponsored program that stands to gain from paying wages that only nominally distinguish captive forced labor from slavery. In this last category, an example of the former is Prison Blues and of the latter is UNICOR which uses prisoners to produce advanced military weaponary
http://www.engaged-zen.org/articles/Kobutsu-Investing_in_Slavery.html

Captive Labor
America's Prisoner's As Corporate Workforce
By Gordon Lafer The American Prospect, 1 September 1999
http://www.postcarbon.org/node/2244
When most of us think of convicts at work, we picture them banging out license plates or digging ditches. Those images, however, are now far too limited to encompass the great range of jobs that America's prison workforce is performing. If you book a flight on TWA, you'll likely be talking to a prisoner at a California correctional facility that the airline uses for its reservations service. Microsoft has used Washington State prisoners to pack and ship Windows software. AT&T has used prisoners for telemarketing; Honda, for manufacturing parts; and even Toys "R" Us, for cleaning and stocking shelves for the next day's customers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But the attractions of prison labor extend well beyond low wages. The prison labor system does away with statutory protections that progressives and unions have fought so hard to achieve over the last 100 years. Companies that use prison labor create islands of time in which, in terms of labor relations at least, it's still the late nineteenth century. Prison employers pay no health insurance, no unemployment insurance, no payroll or Social Security taxes, no workers' compensation, no vacation time, sick leave, or overtime. In fact, to the extent that prisoners have "benefits" like health insurance, the state picks up the tab. Prison workers can be hired, fired, or reassigned at will. Not only do they have no right to organize or strike; they also have no means of filing a grievance or voicing any kind of complaint whatsoever. They have no right to circulate an employee petition or newsletter, no right to call a meeting, and no access to the press. Prison labor is the ultimate flexible and disciplined workforce.
All of these conditions apply when the state administers the prison. But the prospect of such windfall profits from prison labor has also fueled a boom in the private prison industry. Such respected money managers as Allstate, Merrill Lynch, and Shearson Lehman have all invested in private prisons. As with other privatized public services, companies that operate private prisons aim to make money by operating corrections facilities for less than what the state pays them. If they can also contract prisoners out to private enterprises—forcing inmates to work either for nothing or for a very small fraction of their "wages" and pocketing the remainder of those "wages" as corporate profit—they can open up a second revenue stream. That would make private prisons into both public service contractors and the highest-margin temp agencies in the nation.
http://www.postcarbon.org/node/2244

[uponit7771]

29. No you didn't, I replied to you and you left !!!

[superduperfarleft]

79. You're a fucking liar.

I and others attempted to engage you in the other thread repeatedly, and you ignored it.

[Rex_Goodheart]

97. I've answered the same thing about 5 times now...

It's you who lie.

[superduperfarleft]

99. Uh-huh.

If you're too lazy to do anything but post ignorant one-liners, just admit it and save us the trouble.

People repeatedly explained the context of Wright's comment, they repeatedly explained why you were either flat-out wrong or just ignorant as to the history of what he was talking about, and yet you didn't feel like answering those at all.

You started your campaign to remove the Malcolm X and Frederick Douglass avatars from DU yet?

[Rex_Goodheart]

109. I'm aware of the history and was never wrong

I listed Wright's statements/sentiments that were not true. Several times.

To claim that the CIA introduced some crack into black neighborhoods at some point in the past is debatable, but whether that instance is true or not doesn't justify Wright's contention that our government "gives" (present tense) black people drugs for the purpose of incarcerating them, or his insinuation that there are more blacks in prison than in college because of such a program. He's flat out wrong. His racism causes him lunacy.

And you would do the Democratic Party well to stop defending that racist lunatic.

[superduperfarleft]

114. So now it's "debatable."

At least you conceded that. I seem to remember you demanding that everyone make the same choices you did regardless of whether or not their experiences mirrored your's.

As far as whether or not there is an actual plot to imprison black people, can you at least empathize with the community as to why they might think that, given the history of the interactions between african americans and the mostly-white institutions that rule us? Can you step out of your personal experiences for at least a second and realize that an entire community may have reasons for thinking that white people are the enemy? I'm white myself, and I certainly can...

[Rex_Goodheart]

119. No, what Wright said is not debatable

What Wright said is wrong. The historical instances people such as yourself have come up with to defend his remarks are what's debatable, and they don't cover him, anyway.

Listen to him speak. According to Wright there are more black people in prison than in college because our government gives them drugs. That's excuse-making bullshit. One instance of evil committed by our government in the past can't rationally be used as an excuse forever.

[K Gardner]

2. From what I've seen tonight, casting aside the terms in which he

couches his main points, I disagree with very little he has to say.

[JVS]

3. He said Jesus was black.

:cry:

;-)

[theboss]

17. To quote Malcolm X:

Brothers and sisters, the white man has brainwashed us black people to fasten our gaze upon a blonde-haired, blue-eyed Jesus!

[Oleladylib]

62. Jesus, a jew ,was probably olive skinned, dark haired.

[Zynx]

90. Not exactly black.

[kwassa]

118. Depends on how you define the word black

It can be a very mutable concept.

[polichick]

40. Funny how each group of believers thinks Jesus should look like them!

[theboss]

4. The AIDS thing...though apparently that is a very wide-spread belief in black culture

By the way, did you know what black people won't use the word picnic? I found that out recently.

[EFerrari]

9. Go look at what he said about AIDS. n/t

[theboss]

I know what he said...

And according to The Guardian, one-quarter of blacks in American agree with him.

[EFerrari]

24. Can you quote it for people who missed it?

[theboss]

44. "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color"

Almost half of all African-Americans believe that HIV, the virus that causes Aids, is man-made, more than a quarter believe it was produced in a government laboratory and one in eight think it was created and spread by the CIA, according to a study released by Rand Corporation and the University of Oregon.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/26/aids.usa

I guess when the government injected your uncles and granfathers with syphylis, you get paranoid.

[EFerrari]

49. Thank you, theboss.

[Orangepeel]

72. not that it makes a lot of difference, but the government didn't actually cause the syphylis...

although they did lie to the men who had it about what they had, didn't treat them, let them die from it, and let them infect others.

[Goblinmonger]

76. Wow

why even post that and come across as an apologist for that horseshit program?

[Orangepeel]

85. because the truth is bad enough...

it was a barbaric experiment and it doesn't get any less barbaric experiment by describing it incorrectly.

The Tuskeegee experiment provides a clear ethical line that scientific research must not cross, and I believe that it is important that the line be in the right place. Lying to study participants and withholding treatment was unconscionable. It was unconscionable even though the government didn't actually inject them with the disease.

[Goblinmonger]

96. Fair enough.

Guess on first reading it just struck me wrong.

[Orangepeel]

112. thanks for making me explain what I meant

if it struck you as wrong, it doubtlessly struck others that way, too.

[theboss]

77. Fair point. But I bet if you quiz black people 4 out 5 think they were injected with it

The end result, of course, is the same.

[Orangepeel]

91. I agree on both points.

The government and experimenters were responsible for the deaths of the men and the people they infected.

[Laughing Mirror]

141. Yes, the government (Surgeon General, in particular) did let them infect others

So they did "cause" (as you say) syphillis.

Even after penicillin was developed, the guinea pigs continued to no treatment. Maybe an aspirin in sever cases. This went on until the early 1970's, by the way, when the Tuskegee Experment was exposed by the defunct Washington Star, which became the Washington Times.

[CitizenLeft]

98. thank you.

I'm African-American. The virus that causes AIDS could very well have been created in a lab as a biological weapon. No one will ever admit that, or be able to prove otherwise. However, I don't believe the CIA spread it within the gay or AA community as a form of experimentation or genocide.

However... drugs WERE flooded into black communities to fund Iran-Contra, as part of that triangular trade for weapons. That's not fiction. Another reason to be paranoid.

"Are you being paranoid if they're really out to get you?"

[silverweb]

26. "Picnic"?

I never heard about that. What's the story?

[theboss]

41. Go to snopes.com and search for picnic

A rumor started that it's derived from "pick a nigger" and started as a party around lynchings. I eat lunch everyday with three black women - one 25, one 35 and one in her 50s. Each of them told me this. I told them they were nuts and printed out the Snopes article as proof. They still told me that I shouldn't use it as a word.

Crazy world. But, I don't want to offend people unnecessarily.

[silverweb]

87. That creates an interesting dilemma.

When the meaning or etymology of a word is NOT what rumor says it is, don't we have an obligation to correct misconceptions and disseminate the truth?

This reminds me of the instance a few years ago when PETA wanted the town of Fishkill, New York, to change its name because "fishing hurts" ... never mind the fact that the name comes from the Dutch, meaning simply "fish creek" and nothing to do with "killing."

We just perpetuate untruths when we don't correct them. Many Americans are linguistically ignorant, and I think educating them about "picquenique" is far better than just avoiding the perfectly good word "picnic" and thereby giving credence to false rumors.

[theboss]

101. Hey, I'm an English major. I took some Latin. I'm with you.

But you try explaining that to three black woman who think you are crazy already. I gave it an effort for ten minutes. They admitted I was right. And then said...we still ain't saying it.

[silverweb]

107. That's okay.

They don't have to say the word, but now when they hear other people say it, they'll know it's not a racial slur.

And that means they won't be tempted to jump to the conclusion that other people who use the word are "racist." Right?

[theboss]

111. No, I still think they think it's a racist term

They may have been humoring me about being correct.

[silverweb]

129. Well, you know them and I don't.

I would feel absolved from avoiding a perfectly good word after having heard them acknowledge that their misconception was wrong.

If they choose to cling to the false rumor, that's their choice at that point.

[CitizenLeft]

103. wow, now that's one I've never heard, and I'm black...

Where do you live? Maybe that's regional. I'm in OH, Cleveland. Do you live in a southern state?

[theboss]

136. DC....it's a legit email rumour. Here is the Snopes link

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp

[CitizenLeft]

139. I missed that one... yikes!

Thanks for the link! :hi:

[MojoMojoMojo]

5. Meaning makes no difference in the GE, "God Damn America" will mean

8 years of Mccain

[SoonerPride]

8. "The Catholic Church is a great whore"

Will sink McCain

[joeybee12]

12. No, Hagee is not his personal pastor who "brought him to Christ"

BIG difference.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

18. Maybe not, but McCain specifically sought his endorsement. nt

[SoonerPride]

19. Not to me.

You're just looking for a reason to be upset.

There are bigger issues in the country, like healthcare.

Who gives a crap about crazy preachers when our economy is tanking?

Stop being distracted by nonsense and focus on the issues which matter to this country.

[joeybee12]

48. Honey, I could give a flying fuck what Wright says...but don't try anc

act like it aint gonna matter to a lot of people, because it does.

[SoonerPride]

Not the people who would vote for Obama anyway

To me it's a non-issue.

We'll see who wins the party nomination.

When it's Obama, you can buy me a coke.

[SoonerPride]

50. Not the people who would vote for Obama anyway

To me it's a non-issue.

We'll see who wins the party nomination.

When it's Obama, you can buy me a coke.

[Maat]

69. Didn't McCain call the virulently anti-GLBT ROD PARSLEY his spiritual guide?

Didn't Hillary talk proudly about praying with certain pals ... who turned out to be members of a dominionist group, the Fellowship?

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html

[Whisp]

47. and the whore of Babylon is America, with Bushs and Clintons riding saddle

[cliffordu]

138. Yep.

[Oleladylib]

64. vomitonya

[SoonerPride]

66. I hope you're aware those aren't MY words.

Inflammatory preacher gibberish is all over the place on both sides.

[Binka]

122. You Are One Bitter Person

There is not a thread that you post in where you do not spew vile bullshit. Your postings just suck. Ignore for your bitter and silly ass.

[Maat]

60. Oh, and Hillary associating with THE FELLOWSHIP won't give them ammo.

Please.

[Goblinmonger]

78. Did Obama say this

or some guy that speaks at a church he attended?

Do we have video of Obama standing up saying praise Jesus right after that.

I think the majority of people in the US are idiots when it comes to politics, but even I don't think they are that stupid.

[joeybee12]

6. Well, he's gonna piss off a lot of seniors about bombing Hiroshima...

...to the elderly generation that fought in WWII, that was justified since it ended what they considered a terrible, terrible war. We look at it differently, but what Obama-bots don't understand is that other people view things differently...you seem to now just like having your opinions parrotted back at you...like Free republic, really.

Oh yeah, God damn America.

[polichick]

58. Whether people want to hear it or not, it was wrong to bomb Hiroshima...

...and I understand what he meant by God damn America ~ he meant that we're reaping what we've sown.

[Goblinmonger]

80. So he should never take a stand?

I think that is something that you Clinton-bots take pot shots at him about.

And, by the way, lest we forget

OBAMA DIDN'T FUCKING SAY IT. Some other guy did.

[LakeSamish706]

7. He has said absolutely nothing that I disagree with, in fact I bet for the fact checkers...

what he has been preaching is probably truth... Sorry, but the US is not and has not been a nice country... They have been involved in wars for what seems like forever, some justified but many not and that includes the current ones.

[MojoMojoMojo]

14. You also are unelectable ,dont bother running for POTUS

[LakeSamish706]

27. And that of course would be your opinion, and yours alone... Typical Hillbot response.. n/t

[polichick]

35. I agree - the U.S. is reaping what it has sown...

Of course that doesn't mean those particular individuals deserved to die on 9-11.

[joeybee12]

38. Probably truth?

All of what he said is opinion...you can agree with him or not...your Bots seem to think every opinion you agree with is fact or truth....that's pretty frightening.

And quite frankly, those of us who have lots of diagreements with certain politicians and LOTS of this country's history, would not go around damning it.

[Goblinmonger]

83. Keep spreading the right wing talking points

Bot.

Obama didn't say these things. Get over it; you should be smarter than this. Hell, even O'Reilly can tell the difference between Obama and Wright.

[patrice]

11. Judgement is mine, sayeth the Lord. Isn't damning others blasphemy?

Not exactly an uncommon sin, that one. People claim to know "God"'s mind and to speak for "him" all of the time.

[skooooo]

15. who did he damn?

[patrice]

28. I'm not sure. Haven't been following it real close.

We just had a death in our family.

Didn't he say "Damn the United States" or something to that effect?

[skooooo]

13. Ok here's something...

Though I don't disagree with most of what he says. I think when he said that we "didn't bat an eye" and blowing up Hiroshima - I'm not sure that's true. We did it, and you may argue that we were wrong to do it, but I don't think it's something that we didn't take very seriously. I wasn't alive then, but I've never heard anyone talk about the bombing as something that was done flippantly without thought or realization of its consequences.

[polichick]

22. Just doing it showed extreme arrogance toward others...

imo that's what he was saying.

[skooooo]

30. ..and I'd agree with that.

I just don't think that it'll settle as easily with many other people.

Personally, I think it's good for some people to feel uncomfortable when they realize that the whole world doesn't see everything like they do.

[sunnystarr]

16. Not a thing ... I was wondering what all the fuss was about! (nt)

[uponit7771]

36. Newt Gingrich just said NOTHING Wright said was racist so I don't think this story has legs at all.

[ExtraGriz]

53. newt?

oh jesus!!

[uponit7771]

63. Yes, on Greta Van Sustren's show right after Hannity's

[1620rock]

42. Hmm, as a white guy for Hillary...

I must say that I agree with everything the Rev said. :shrug:

[uponit7771]

65. I think it was partly the WAY it was said

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

32. Exhorting people to oppose a candidate for her race.

[Goblinmonger]

86. No

Saying that her claims of understanding blacks is a load of shit since she has never been black. You going to argue with that or can you admit that she can't possibly understand.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

135. My statement was correct

The "negroes who don't get it" referred to are not those on the wrong side of an abstract discussion. It was candidate support that was being discussed.

And if white people are presumed to lack some essential understanding, then you are arguing that exhorting people to vote against someone for her race is a valid voting decision.

That's an argument to make.

But the fact remains that the incapacity described is a function of race, so it remains an exhortation to vote against someone because of a deficiency inherent in the person's race.

If you want to defend the indefensible, at least have the guts to admit you're defending it, instead of pretending it's something else.

[Lucinda]

33. Which ones do you agree with?

Sexual references and gestures on the pulpit? With or without children present?
God Damn America?
America as KKK?

[polichick]

43. I agree with WHAT he was saying, though I understand how some people...

...have trouble hearing it the way it was delivered.

[Lucinda]

52. Politics and graphic sexual content are never ok with me on the pulpit.

[polichick]

54. What graphic sexual content?? Haven't seen that clip.

[Lucinda]

71. He's air humping and talking about Bill doing to blacks what he did to Monica.

It's part of the clip where he says Bill was driving dirty.

[polichick]

75. Well, church is partly theatre, and each minister has his or her own performance style...

...personally I would've laughed at that one.

[Maat]

81. Me too (n/t)!

[Lucinda]

84. Not me. Especially if there were any kids sitting in that church when he did it.

[uponit7771]

113. That cracked me up, I can see how it would offend someone conservative

[Goblinmonger]

89. Pull the stick out of your ass

If he has been doing sermons like this all the time (which is a claim by those like you that want to use this to smear a fellow Dem) then I am quite sure the parents of any children there knew what they were going to get. Or do you now know better than the parents what is good for their own children in their religious upbringing.

[kwassa]

102. I agree with Goblinmonger!

it must be a sign of the impending apocalypse.

[Goblinmonger]

108. Holy Hell!

My heart has just started again after a couple minutes.

Primaries make for strange bedfellows :evilgrin:

[Lucinda]

110. Do you have chidren?

[Goblinmonger]

116. Yes

14 and 11. They would have thought it was funny, too. I actually let them watch PG-13 movies, too. Wouldn't have bothered me when they were younger, either. Then again, I'm not a Puritan.

[boston bean]

121. no you're

foolish.

[Goblinmonger]

125. OK, Mom, I'll do better from now on.

Thanks for providing me information on how to raise my children. Probably explains why they are crack addicts that prostitute themselves on the weekend. Guess I never put two and two together.

[kwassa]

127. Time to call child and family services!

you misbehaving parent

[Goblinmonger]

131. For certain

Guess I should ground my daughter from going to state music for her violin solo and my son from going to the youth state wrestling tournament to defend his championship from last year. That'll teach them. It's amazing how they ever made it with all the air humping and Lewinsky references in my household.

[Maat]

57. Well, there were Americans who were in the KKK ..

in fact, I don't know of many foreigners who were in the KKK.

[Lucinda]

133. So you agree with what he said in the video then?

[Maat]

137. Hmmm ... he gave a rousing rhetorical speech ...

as many pastors do ... replete with things to make one think.

Let's see ... having been a social worker for seven years (been retired for awhile), I agree that the prison system is profitable for so many: the prison guards, the people building the prison, the police do (budgets are big - special funding for SWAT teams, special drug teams), the higher and middle drug dealing management, and the CIA's favorite rebel groups around the world. People of color are treated very differently, as are the poor. It was like a big, ongoing dramatic stage production, with everyone playing their role.

I know that is institutional racism and bias against the poor - such that Cheney can get hooched up at lunch, and pump a bunch of lead into his friend (including the lead that remains in his friend's heart) and not even get investigated ... and yet, a client of a social-worker friend of mine got seventeen years for doing the same thing.

I know that Clinton cannot understand what it is like to be a black man, and that she has never been refused a cab because of her color, and can't understand what that is like.

I don't believe that the government deliberated injected AIDS into the Black community, but certainly has done nothing to stop its spread.

Anyway, I'm sure I disagree with some of it, and agree with some of it. And it doesn't matter. I wouldn't drop my church because of a few things my pastor, who was retiring, said, nor do I expect Obama to do so. I certainly do not expect Obama to completely reject his pastor of over twenty years.

My God - if you expected me to completely reject everyone I've known who said objectionable things, well, I certainly could not satisfy you as far as a candidacy. I've worked (as a social worker) with drug dealers, abusers, murderers, and prostitutes, helping them to understand their rights, etc. I've spoken to, and, most importantly, listened to, abusive politicians to the poor and homeless. I've talked to a wide variety of people, on an ongoing basis, about various political ideas. I've listened to many pastors on an ongoing basis - and I'm sure you wouldn't agree with all of what they said. I'm not about to vehemently renounce any of them. I may let you know which remarks I disagree with and why - but I certainly won't beat a dead horse about a few rousing speeches.

I don't think the point is whether or not I agree with all of Rev. Wright's remarks. The point is that this in no way is a reflection of Obama's ability to be a good president.

[BeatleBoot]

34. His Trip To Libya With Louis Farrakhan to Visit Muammar Qadafi

As an American, and as a Democrat, I find it despicable.

It's reprehensible.

It's disgusting.

[Maat]

56. They were just visiting.

As. J.R. Ewing said, "I keep my friends, close and my enemies even closer." I believe that not talking to people is juvenile. Just because a friend or associate of yours talks to somebody who talks to somebody that is viewed negatively - well, that doesn't mean squat.

[uponit7771]

73. I don't agree with that either, I just wouldn't kick him to the curb because of it

[Goblinmonger]

92. Are you opposed to Farrakhan or Qadafi?

What if it were Malcolm X instead of Farrakhan?

[Demobrat]

37. From what I've seen, and I don't know if it's everything

not a damn thing. Heck, from what I've seen I don't think he's said anything I haven't said myself.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. Your OP is correct .... it is a matter of style more than words ......

.... although many who hear this only through the filter of a media that is NOT on our side will hear a man disparaging the US for the atom bombs in WWII. While many of us might think that's a good thing, most Americans will not.

And the "God Damn America" will play well ...... where, exactly? :shrug:

[Critters2]

82. He shouldn't have endorsed a candidate from the pulpit.

If an Evangelical did this for a Repug candidate, we'd all be (rightly) apoplectic.

[Megahurtz]

93. Absolutely nothing.

:rofl:

[boston bean]

95. That Bill Clinton did the same thing to the black community that he did to Monica Lewinsky.

he was ridin dirty.

[Zynx]

100. He referred to "white America" as "US of KKKA" which is so absurd.

The vast majority of whites are vehemently opposed to the Klan. Also, Hiroshima and Nagasaki have NOTHING at all to do with 9/11. As far as written statements, he called 9/11 an attack against the "Great White West" even though it was hardly a racially specific attack.

[superduperfarleft]

104. Obtuse. n/t

[kwassa]

106. walk in his shoes for awhile

if you are able to do that, and I don't think most whites are. Even the most liberal often know next to nothing about black people's lives. Wright is viewing the US from the vantage point of a urban black American, not from YOUR vantage point.

Where did the KKK come from, if not the United States? They were internal terrorists, along with other white supremacists.

as to the Hiroshima and Nagasaki comment, you misquote and misunderstand him.

[Zynx]

115. I watched the video and it is pretty easy to get that from what he said.

I'm sorry, but he is condemning 200 million people as a bunch of racists. I don't make broad statements about urban African American communities because, no I haven't lived in them. As I do not know enough about them I certainly don't make these all inclusive statements the way Reverend Wright does. It is wrong to do so. "White America" is not a monolithic entity and if he can't see that, and he chooses to view it as an "us against them" deal, that's his issue.

[kwassa]

123. He also said, in one of the videos, that he is not against white people

there are white members of his congregations, and any white person who has worked with him says the same thing. He is not racist, but he does believe that institutional racism holds black people down. That is not a stretch.

His church is the biggest in the highly white UCC, and contributes more money than any other congregation to programs in that white UCC. How does that mesh with your view of him?

[Rex_Goodheart]

120. Doesn't make what he said true.

And just how long does he intend to blame whites for his problems?

[kwassa]

126. Talking to you

with your closed mind and lack of knowledge and failure to respond to others reasoned requests, would be a complete waste of my time.

I could tell you what I really think of you, but it would only get deleted.

[Rex_Goodheart]

130. I've got plenty of knowledge, I've responded to requests,

and I don't care what you think of me.

You prefer to defend a man who spews racist excuse-making and America-damning than to do what's right for the future of this country. You've fallen for a cult of personality.

[Goblinmonger]

132. Sean Hannity is that you?

I can't believe you kept an account here that long.

Cult of personality? you've gone hook, line, and sinker to the talking points haven't you?

[kwassa]

140. well, know this, I am a Hillary supporter who is saying this to you.

and you choose to misconstrue Wright in a way that makes me suspect your own racial motives.

[npincus]

142. Can we stop talking about this? It doesn't HELP.

time to move on, and get back on message.