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If not Kerry, then WHO and HOW? Let's hear your ideas.

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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:08 PM
Original message
If not Kerry, then WHO and HOW? Let's hear your ideas.
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 06:41 PM by blondeatlast
Brokered convention? Miracles? And who's your pick--within the party?

Two assumptions:
You are ABB, and:
You undersatand that the Greens, 4th parties, and Indies don't stand a chance against an incumbent, wartime president.

Be aware, ABKers, you are gonna get challenged in this thread.

Edit: SL--a little less flameworthy--it wasn't meant to be.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'll vote for stinking rancid turd over Bush
don't worry. Though I am not sure why anyone wants to put me in that position.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Thanks--but I don't get the addendum in your post.
No one forced K on anyone, he hads been CHOSEN by the Dem voters in the primaries already held.

So who could win a brokered C? And how to do it?
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. evidently...
the idea is that he'll wake up one day, say "Hey! I suck. Howard Dean RAWKS!" and drop out, convincing all his delegates that Howard Dean is REALLY the better candidate despite his spectacular collapse and inability to win a single state outside his own tiny home state.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. But then, all hell breaks loose--I don't mind saying my primary vote was
partly AGAINST a candidate; if he had a chance of taking my state, I would have voted Kerry.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. well I was being facetious....
and mocking those who still think Dean would be a better candidate despite all evidence to the contrary.

Kerry is the best candidate. He proved it by winning primary after primary, often overwhelmingly. The nay-sayers who want to "undo" this are anti-democratic whiners who can't let go of their messianic attraction to a failed candidate.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I know--just carrying the debate a tad further.
I'm not one of the people on the boards who revels in my perceived "oppression."

I've even been known to laugh at an occasional joke!
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. The primariy system is stacked though
. So no I don't concede heis the best candidate. He is unavoidable now however.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. How? State your case, I'd like to hear it.
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Classical_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Open primaries. (New Hampshire) Caucuses(Iowa) that don't
Edited on Wed Apr-21-04 07:06 PM by Classical_Liberal
allow candidates that don't make a certain percentage carry delegates to the convention, not to mention the campaign finance situation that favors candidates way more conservative than most dems.

Frankly the two party system itself is stacked.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I don't understand
how did that harm Dean or hurt Kerry? As I recall, DEAN was the lead fundraiser, not Kerry. He spent a fortune in Iowa and still lost... resoundingly.

The fact is, primary and caucus voters in Iowa and New Hampshire are among the most informed and committed Democrats in the country - they chose John Kerry overwhelmingly. They rejected Howard Dean, as did the vast majority of voters in many other states.

Hey, MY guy lost, too. But I don't blame the primary system for that.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's Kerry. Time to come to terms with it.
There will not be a brokered convention.

Now can we move on to the real issues?
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Sorry. Donating Member (56 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. vote Kerry
with no illusions.

Then be prepared to fight for a better America whoever wins the election.
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-21-04 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. who and how!
Its Kerry obviously so that takes care of the WHO...

The HOW, however, is certainly open to criticisms and alternative suggestion. One such might be that your candidate actually campaign against Bush and his policies instead of his constant "I agree with Bush on this but...." sort of rhetoric.

Bernard Weiner for one agrees apparently:

Shallow Throat to Dems: "Time to Go for the Jugular!"
By Bernard Weiner, The Crisis Papers (http://www.crisispapers.org)

April 19, 2004 -- SAN FRANCISCO (crisispapers.org) -- When I got the coded call from Shallow Throat, I was worried. The last few times we'd talked*, the highly-placed GOP mole in the Bush Administration was extremely frightened, fearing imminent discovery, so I thought something bad might have gone down.

We met in a half-deserted, dimly-lit tavern outside the Beltway. The wig and shades were different, but the anger was the same and it was directed at the usual target: timid liberals.

"I can't believe you guys!" he practically shouted. "Bush is screwing up big time in so many areas -- the 9/11 coverup, the Iraq War, Israel and the Palestinians, the Plame case, the environment, health care, education, the economy, tax rates, and on an on -- and your Dem friends simply watch in horror, with their mouths wide open, and don't react with any real passion.

"Bush&Co. are dazed, confused and floored, not knowing what the hell to do, and you let him get up! At times, you even seem to be helping him to his feet! Damn it, this isn't tiddleewinks. Bush&Co. are playing full-contact, crush-your-opponent politics, and too often you seem to be playing to win the good-sportsmanship prize.

"You want to get rid of Bush and his kind from the White House? Remember where the political jugular is located and go for it!"

----cut-----
ST gave me a look of disbelief. "You ask me that after what's happened since we last talked? Dick Clarke and Bob Woodward spill the whole can of beans all over the Bush Administration, Condi Rice lies and bobs and weaves her way through her testimony, nobody even tries to lay a glove on Ashcroft, the FBI and CIA are fingered to take the fall, Iraq is falling apart, Bush pitiably embarrasses himself and our country at his press conference -- and your candidate and the rest of the Democrats issue polite criticism.

"Even parts of the conglomerate-owned media machine are starting to mention and question Bush's scandals and disastrous policies. Why are you Democrats so timid? You should be wiping the floor with these guys, not pretending that all this is politics as usual.

----cut-------
THE COURSE OF ACTION

"OK," I replied. "Supposing it's all as drastic as you say, what to do?"

----cut-----"So, as an outraged, desperate, angry Republican, here's my answer to your question, a prescription for action. Take what you find useful:

"First, get your heaviest liberal hitters to bring John Kerry into a closed room and read him the riot act. If he wants to win, if he wants to get Dems and Independents and Libertarians and moderate Republicans like me to vote and work for him and supply him with campaign dollars, he's got to sharpen his attack, got to go for that jugular. Don't fudge around, use the appropriate goddamn words: "lies," "deceit," "manipulation," "quagmire," "permanent war," "imperial foreign policy," "sticking it to the middle class," "ruining the economy." Don't pull punches, just tell the truth.

"To be able to fight like that requires him to shed the albatross that was hung around his neck by Kerry himself, and which is being used by the GOP to brand him. Kerry voted for the blank-check that allowed Bush to go to war in Iraq, he voted for the Patriot Act, he supports Sharon's bestial policies in Palestine. Kerry has got to admit he made some mistakes -- something Bush is incapable of doing, but Kerry can -- about those positions.

"He has to go to the American people and say he is wiser now than he was then; his votes were based on faulty information; he, we all, got snookered by a lying Bush Administration to convince and manipulate us into a war of choice, not one of necessity. And he was caught up, as were we all, by the immediate fear and desire to get the terrorists after 9/11, and voted in haste for the Patriot Act.

"Kerry can at least sketch a way out of Iraq, before we sink up to our eyeballs in that quagmire; if it involves handing over control to the U.N., or kicking Chalabi and Halliburton out of the way, or swallowing hard when Islamic nationalists take control in a democratic election -- well, that's part of the road out of this morass. Kerry can promise that he will take a good look at the Patriot Act and remove the worst aspects. ----cut------
KERRY NEEDS MORE SAX APPEAL

"You're not pulling any punches here," I said. "What next?"

"Second, he should ask Bill Clinton for some tutoring on campaigning and public-speaking. Loosen up. Get better writers. Spend lots of time in televised, small town-hall meetings, interacting in an intimate setting (rather than in large rallies) one-on-one with ordinary citizens; I think Kerry could excel in that arena. And, since Bush won't really debate, take some of that money that's coming in and buy 15 minutes or a half-hour on network TV to take on Bush directly on a number of key issues.

"Kerry can be a give-'em-hell-Harry kind of candidate, a straight shooter who tells it like it is. Even though currently he gets off a good shot now and then, he doesn't seem relaxed, doesn't smile as much as he should, seems somewhat awkward and dull in delivery too often, as if he's trying to remember what he's supposed to be saying rather than letting it flow from his heart and gut.

"Third, he should hold a major press conference, make some major announcements and then, for an hour, demonstrate how at ease he is with answering pointed questions from the reporters, how much knowledge he has at his fingertips, how 'presidential' he looks when measured against Dubya Doofus, how relaxed and self-deprecatingly funny he can be.

"Fourth, he needs to address the computer-voting issue head-on. It won't matter if more citizens choose him on November 2nd unless their votes are accurately recorded and tabulated. His victory could be stolen unless the scandal of touch-screen voting problems is dealt with. As Stalin said, what matters is not who votes, but who counts the votes.

----cut------MADRID-TYPE BOMBING HERE?

"You've put your finger on the right man," said Shallow Throat. "The Rovemeister has a file full of dirty tricks he's starting to activate, and Kerry and the Dems better be prepared for those -- and for various other surprises as we get closer to the election, when undecided voters are more apt to be paying attention to the campaign."

"Aside from Rove, what about an outside interference -- say, a terrorist attack in the U.S. before the vote," I asked, "similar to the Madrid train bombings?"

"Look, Bin Laden's intentions couldn't be clearer," said Shallow Throat. "He's willing to ease off Europe in order to focus on America. A big one is coming, for sure. And he's almost more eager to demonstrate that he can still pull one off here because a Bush Administration official recently almost dared him to do so, saying Al Qaida is so badly decimated and in our preventive sights that the terrorists can't do much major damage inside the U.S.

"The question is not whether but when, how big it will be, and how the American citizenry will react when it happens. Will they blame Bush for not protecting them, and will they remember how he did nothing prior to 9/11 even when he knew the 'spectacular' Big One was about to happen? Or will Americans, in their fright, rally around the Administration in a time of great travail and anxiety? And, most importantly, if the Al Qaida attack is horrific -- say, a suitcase dirty bomb going off at a major port city, killing and radiating tens of thousands -- will they stand up and resist the calls for martial law and the 'postponement' of the election?

DO DEMOCRATS HAVE THE CAJONES?

"If the Democrats have any sense, they will start talking now about the terrorism that is likely to happen this Summer or Fall, reminding voters of how incompetent the Bush Administration was before and has been since 9/11, and how their reckless policies in Iraq and the Middle East have made us more vulnerable to terrorism, not less. But I'm not sure your Democrats are smart enough to think along those lines, or have the guts to take on Bush directly on these issues.

"In short, I'm not sure they really know how to win, or maybe even want to win enough to go out and really claw and fight their way to victory. But they simply have to if we're going to have any opportunity to avoid the militarist, neo-fascist society Bush&Co. have in mind for America after November 2, and the permanent war the neo-cons want to continue abroad.

---cut-------"They better be," said Shallow Throat, heading for the door. "There is no going back and no-second chance. It's now or never."#

-------------

*For three of these earlier "conversations" with Shallow Throat, go to: www.crisispapers.org/essays/one-chance.htm
www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/bush-defeat.htm www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/bring-it-on.htm

Bernard Weiner, Ph.D., has taught government at various universities, was a
writer-editor with the San Francisco Chronicle for 19 years, and currently
co-edits the progressive website The Crisis Papers (www.crisispapers.org)

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