"GOD DAMN AMERICA "- Rev. Jeremiah Wright. (spiritual advisor to Barack Obama)

[aquarius dawning]

"An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans."

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

I wonder if there's any photographic evidence of any kind out there that would suggest that Obama maybe takes this kind of preaching To Heart(ahem). I sure hope not for all our sakes.
I'm sure the Republicans will just ignore it if there is.

[Rabrrrrrr]

1. And Jeremiah Wright is right.

[Texas Hill Country]

23. Wright perpetuates racism and has other falsely held beliefs.

[Window]

38. Nothing false about that.

[Zynx]

53. 9/11 was a "wake up call to the White West"? There's truth in that?

[boppers]

63. 9/11 got a whole nation to clue in that a global world means global thought.

We can't just keep playing poorer nations for our gain, because they can hit back.

As far as the "White West", I'm wondering how many non-white presidents the US has had. Or canadian PM's, for that matter.

(South of us, things get better)

[Hoof Hearted]

65. What a bunch of RACIST shit. Black power brokers like Condi and Colin and Thomas,

Black CEO's, Media moguls, lobbyists, legislators, stock brokers and hedge-fund operators - They're all WHITE now? Or were they somehow NOT affected by 9-11?

This will not be glossed over because it simply is NOT excusable. Obama needs to throw Wright under the bus, fast and hard. If he doesn't - the SuperD's will have to save us from his tin ear.

[boppers]

67. How many? 12% of the board?...... No.

There's a reason why the black kid on south park is named "Token".

I suggest you figure it out.

[Hoof Hearted]

69. NICE TO KNOW if you are that 12% that you don't fuckin' count.

Not enough.

It was RACIST, but more importantly STUPID, STUPID, STUPID shit to say.

Who do you think is going to pay for it, Magellan?

[boppers]

75. States with black populations DON'T COUNT for hillary.

Who is going to pay for the US's racism? All of us. For the next 3-500 years.

[Hoof Hearted]

79. Why don't you at least TRY to pretend you have the ability to stay on topic?

You want to start a different topic start ya own fuckin' thread. If you don't want to address what I already said, STFU.

[BlackVelvet04]

24. sure....

and most of America is going to love this, right?

[Rabrrrrrr]

33. Being right and being loved are not related at all.

If you are attempting to say that America will not like Wright's message, then of course you are correct (at least, I believe you're correct - I can't imagine most of America liking what he has to say).

But that doesn't make Wright wrong.

[BlackVelvet04]

39. what it does is makes Obama unelectable. n/t

[Forkboy]

57. And this is Hillary's problem. She'd rather be electable than right.

[JoFerret]

47. Whether he is "right" or not

These views will not win any general election. And if the GOP is able to associate Obama with them he will lose in a landslide.

Is that right? Absolutely not. Is that likely - unfortunately Yes.

[Zynx]

52. No nation is perfect. Britain, France, China, Russia, India, etc have all done terrible things.

America has also done some very good things. I don't deny the atrocities of our past, but to damn the whole nation is not appropriate.

[Rabrrrrrr]

55. Then perhaps you need to read his words more carefully.

He isn't damning America.

It's all conditional - he's very much in the mold of the Old Testament prophets.

Wright is offering a much needed and necessary critique and response to the heretic and triumphalist use of "God Bless America" by the rightwing to mean that we can do whatever the hell we want because we're "God's chosen nation". Wright is calling for America, if we want to believe that we are God's chosen nation, to actually start acting like it. To live into that chosenness, instead of using it as an excuse to commit violence, atrocities, and other evil.

[boppers]

64. Damning the nation is not damning the people.

It's damning the system. Big difference there.

[Kool Kitty]

2. What sort of photographic evidence are you looking for?

[earthside]

16. Probably something like ...

... that photo of Bill Clinton(s) and Marc Rich that is floating around out there on the internet.

Right?

[Kool Kitty]

27. I thought the OP wanted a pic of

Obama burning a flag or something like that, you know, to show that he had taken the message to heart.

[Bicoastal]

3. Wait, it seems to me like simply quoting him as saying "God damn America"...

...is taking him out of context. Every time he said it, he followed it up with a conditional phrase.

[aquarius dawning]

8. not really conditional so much as rational (in his mind).

[Bicoastal]

14. But in that context, it seems like a fairly progressive thing to say, especially in lieu of 2003.

So why condemn it?

[Texas Hill Country]

28. America deserved 9-11 because of Hiroshima? Seriously?

[Rabrrrrrr]

35. If you can show a quote, not taken out of context, of Wright saying that -

then I'll believe it.

But not until then.

[coalition_unwilling]

36. You are so ignorant as to barely merit the courtesy of a response.

American foreign policy (including Hiroshima) is directly responsible for 9-11. Read Chalmers Johnson's "Blowback" for more on that topic. That's entirely different from saying America 'deserved' 9-11.

History did not start on 9-11-2001. In fact, you might want to check out what America did back on 9-11-1971 in Chile before you go making your ignorant posts.

[superkia]

50. I agree with you that the American government is causing this hate...

by invading and changing other countries to fulfill the elites agenda. I also believe that our system had more to do with it being arranged or allowed and compare it to The Reichstag fire. History is repeating itself and if we continue to get our information only from controlled agenda driven sources...it will repeat itself.

Anyone seen the commercials that MTV has out? I was amazed to see any corporation doing anything that would look like it were against the elite in anyway.

Heres a link to the two commercials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOuq4pY10o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5oKqQmGYHQ&feature=related


If Americans don't wake up and stand together, history will repeat itself in many horrible ways.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

[Kool Kitty]

37. What does one thing have to do with

the other?

[boppers]

66. Well, not the original context, but:

140,000 people were murdered on August 6th.
002,998 people were murdered on September 11th.

That's a huge difference.

The pastor's point is that during and since WWII, the US has been systematically wreaking havoc all over the globe, everything from murdering democratically elected people we didn't "like", to stockpiling weapons for religious extremists.

It was only a matter of time.

In pastor speak:
"As ye sow, ye shall reap."

[MichaelHarris]

4. I'm starting to wonder

if some posters here are on the Clinton payroll.

[skooooo]

6. I'm sure that's the case.

I don't know about this one, but I keep putting more and more people on my ignore list.

[aquarius dawning]

18. actually, it would be more accurate to say that she's on my payroll

[MichaelHarris]

44. well that makes since

that's why it's so easy for you to smear fellow Democrats.

[MichaelHarris]

61. I meant sense

I have the flu.

[dbonds]

5. We sure needed yet another thread on this.

[aquarius dawning]

13. That's exactly what I was thinking too.

[last1standing]

7. You really have delusions of being Karl Rove, don't you?

You're just a little person spreading little lies in your little corner of the internet. Sorry to break it to you but you need to know.

[aquarius dawning]

9. Oh, what have I lied about?

[last1standing]

31. "spiritual advisor to Barack Obama" is a lie.

This person was a pastor at a church not a spiritual adviser. We both know that so why are you trying to build it up? Oh yeah, because you think you'll make a difference when you spread your rovian hate.

Here's a little truth for you. Your candidate has lost. She's lost the race, she's lost our respect and she's lost her soul. And because you continue to do her work, you're a loser as well. Much like Saruman from the Lord of the Rings, she, and you, can only spread your hateful little lies and hope they fester. How sad it is.


Edited to note: You've also lost this argument. You're going on my ignore list where creepy things like you belong. Bye.

[aquarius dawning]

34. see post #20.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

45. You might want to familiarize yourself with your damn candidate before embarrassing yourself

[saracat]

11. "Lies" ? He posted an ABC Report.

[jackson_dem]

25. The Obama posting police was quick on the scene

When will Obamanation realize they may bully and censor the blogs but won't be able to control the msm when it comes out with this stuff in the fall if Obama is the nominee?

[Auntie Bush]

10. I think Michele believes that since she hasn't been proud of America.

[Bicoastal]

21. Suddenly all Hillary supporters out there are 100% happy with the country.

[WinkyDink]

73. We're not candidates' spouses, are we? Caesar's wife, and all that.

[Obamanaut]

43. I think we may sometimes think of Ms Obama a bit harshly. Right

here in DU I've read such things as "I'm so ashamed of being American", especially since the start of the Iraq debacle, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, wiretapping, G. Bush.

Right now, with a woman and black man campaigning for president at the same time, I am especially proud of us. Exciting stuff is going on in my lifetime that I did not think would happen. It is true that we still have room for improvement, but still, we've come a long way.

[Vinca]

12. Is this post #7,001 or 7,002 on this topic? Time for a new scandal. nt

[From The Left]

15. The Truth Hurts. I've Said the Same Thing

[goodgd_yall]

17. I agree with what Wright says

But, I wouldn't want to be hearing that ranting in a church, but then I'm a white Catholic-raised older woman who has tender nerves. But besides that, what the Reverend says is going to be brought up later closer to the general election assuming Obama gets the nomination, I am quite sure. It's good fodder for all those out there that see Obama as the most liberal senator in congress, which to a RWer is tantamount to being unAmerican. Add these sermons on top of it, and Obama's going to have his work cut out for him to explain his relationship to Rev. Wright.

[Political Heretic]

19. "Well said." - Political Heretic, Advisor to the Stars.

Been saying that phrase a lot these last 8 years.

[Texas Hill Country]

20. he is more than just spiritual advisor, i would say that he is more like a

mentor or even a surrogate father...

Wright got Barak the community organizer job, married barak and michelle, baptized all their kids, campaigns for him, named his freakin book, etc etc etc etc etc etc...

these two are seriously close.

[aquarius dawning]

26. Yup. That's going to go over real well in November. Shoulda fought for the middle, not the far left.

[Texas Hill Country]

29. you are gonna see every hillbilly come in from the hinterlands! think they were freaked about gays?

[jackson_dem]

22. Obamites are so out of touch with reality they don't see how this will hurt Obama in the general

[Texas Hill Country]

30. amazing isnt it.

[MagickMuffin]

32. Oh my Gawd, Oh my Gawd, Oh MY Gawd

The nerve of that man.

What was he thinking?.?.?

Preaching about inequality. How dare he mention how the black people in this country are unfairly punished by the white man's laws they pass against them.

Tell me where is he wrong about pointing this out?.?.?

It's not like it's a big secret the black people, especially men are treated by different standards.

[stray cat]

40. Wow that might recruit some religious conservative votors to Wright's campaign.

[FedoraLV]

41. Read his statements in context

"One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology. Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology .... To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else. African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior."

Read the rest at:
<http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm>

Have you read Cone's book? Or any of the other authors mentioned on this page?

I have: after you have then you'll be able to speak about Wright's views more accurately.

-FedoraLV

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

46. Here's a project for you...

Get 100 million American registered voters to read Cone's book, then get back to us.

Until then, this plays to voters the way it plays to voters.

[FedoraLV]

84. Well

That's Cone's publisher's job ... however _God of the Oppressed_ is a short, untaxing book available in many libraries and all the major online booksellers.

Start a trend: read it yourself. :)

(I had to read it for school but it was one of the top 5 books I read in those four years. It's one of few books I wish I could hand out to everyone -- because it's that good, not because of some pc here-this-will-enlighten-you drudgery.)

-FedoraLV

[mrreowwr_kittty]

42. Fuck America.

She needs to get over herself already.

[rateyes]

48. God (if there is one) FORGIVE America.

Please.

[BlackVelvet04]

49. God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people,

not in the New Testament, dude. I thought he loved the fact that Jesus taught him how to love his enemies, and then he wants to damn them to hell? Wow, the depth of that hypocrisy is mind boggling.

[TriMetFan]

51. What I don't get is why this Rev. J. Wright

thinks it is o.k. to use Gods name in vain? The 3rd Commandments is:You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God.

[Rabrrrrrr]

56. He isn't.

I'm curious where and how you think he is using God's name in vain.

[TriMetFan]

60. Well right here is part of what he said.

"G-- damn America" To some of us, when a person say's G-- damn, you are using The Lords name in vain. That might not be true in your book, but it is in others.

[boppers]

68. G-- damn America

He wasn't swearing, or using it in vain.

He's a preacher, damnation is his trade.

The reasons he cited are damnable offenses... they just happen to apply to a "nation", rather than people.

He does, however, use "God" in his tradition, and I understand other traditions disavow the speaking, or typing, of such things.

[Liquorice]

77. Wright has a strange way of preaching.

First he goes on an incredibly angry rant and then at the end he says, "God has got to be sick of this shit."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfNEfEBYIZs

What kind of pastor talks like that?

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. Well, for one thing, the word "goddamn" is not using God's name in vain.

Secondly, that's not what Wright is saying - by your own admission, he has a space in between the words.

God damn.

Since God is the only being with the power to damn, and to do so only in the face of great sin, this is an entirely correct usage of the word.

To say that this is taking God's name in vain is to not have any theological handle on scripture, nor any understanding at all of Old Testament prophetic books and prophetic style and context. Wright is saying nothing different than ALL the Old Testament prophets (the ones who have their own books) who called the countries of Israel and Judah to faithfulness and away from the many sins their nations were committing; and later, in the time of exile and then time of repatriation, continued to call the people back to faithfulness with oracles of judgment and damnation intermixed with oracles of hope and redemption.

[TriMetFan]

81. Like I said in your book

it is o.k. to use those kind of words. In my and in many Americans it doesn't matter if there is a space in there or not. The man is "supposed to be a man of the cloth" and he talks like this. Wow, that is screwed up.

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. "Like I said in your book" - ?? You lost me on that one.

Perhaps it's just a typo or misplaced word, but I don't know what you mean by that.

As to the rest of your post, of course he talks like that - he's a man of the cloth. A very prophetic one. He's using solidly biblical language and imagery from the Biblical prophetic tradition - the language he's using is 3,000 years old.

If you have a problem with his "language", then go yell at the Bible.

If you have a problem with his idea that some of America's actions are worth condemning, then that's your opinion - THAT you can take up with him.

But don't denounce his style of language. It's purely Biblical.

[Politicub]

54. Most preachers come across as lunatics

Wright is no better or no worse.

[adoraz]

58. I see nothing wrong in these comments

other comments by him yes, but these comments seem fine to me, and in a sense very true.

[Forkboy]

59. Why do I feel like this election is like choosing between diarrhea and constipation?

I miss the days when I cared about which Dem won. x(

[ElsewheresDaughter]

71. you made me laugh with your analogy of our choices

[boppers]

62. I'll mark you down as "killing innocent people" is good?

Is that what you want?

[Levgreee]

70. He's not his spiritual advisor, sheesh... you guys are being dense

[aquarius dawning]

72. 56,000. that's the number of hits you get when you type in " Obama's spiritual advisor"

and they all agree that he is his spiritual advisor.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=obama%27s+spiritual+advisor

[Levgreee]

74. You get 606,000 for Clinton's spiritual advisor

37,200 for Hillary Clinton's spiritual advisor.

What's your damn point?

[aquarius dawning]

76. I haven't heard anything about Clinton's spiritual advisor condemning America

or blaming white people for creating the aids virus in order to kill black people. That's the point. Frankly, I haven't heard anything about Clinton's spiritual advisor. I didn't even know she had one.

[Levgreee]

78. Well according to google she does. You seem to think google search numbers are a valid source

[krawhitham]

83. I have no issue with what Jeremiah Wright said, BUT

I have a problem with any politician having a Religious Leadership Committee

has no one heard of SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE