I'm a white, middle aged Clinton supporter and I can't disagree with much of Rev Wright's views....

[BooScout]

As a far left Liberal I cannot disagree with much of what I have seen regarding his sermons.

BUT that is not the point. The point is that the Republicans will have a field day with this one. And Middle America will not understand much at all beyond how inflammatory it is. Nor will Middle America distinguish much difference between Obama's views and those of his pastor, especially the pastor that married him, baptized his children and was an inspiration for his book.

[leftofcool]

1. Exactly!

[Greenwood]

2. I am a white middle aged Clinton supporter and I totally disagree with Rev. Wright...

I think the guy is a pure 100% racist.

[Iceburg]

6. I agree!! Racist, sexist and anti-American. The question is why did

Obama follow him for 20 years, and Rezko for 17 yrs.

These relationships call into question his judgment or lack thereof.

[goodgd_yall]

19. He's Anti-American because he critiques America?

He uses strong language, but, come on, this country has done some damned evil things too.

[angie_love]

29. the guy is canadian, pay no mind.

[angie_love]

28. Who the fuck are you to say what anti-american is, you're fucking canadian!

What is the parliament too boring for you?! Geebus, hasn't the canadian govt intefered with our election enough?

[karmicglee]

36. You don\'t need to have cancer to do research on it

It is a fallacy to say that a person needs to be American in order to come to the conclusion that someone is Anti-American.

We all know that Saddam was anti-Iraq, because he gassed Kurds, or that Pinochet was anti-Chile, because he did not allow Democratic elections. And we don\'t need to be Iraqi or Chilean to figure it out.

[Two Americas]

34. reverse racism

Reverse racism is a false concept that is founded upon a misunderstanding of the reality of racism, and that was manufactured and propagated by the extreme right wing.

"I don't care if someone does not like me, so long as they do not have the power to harm me."

The right wing propagandists have succeeded in luring liberals and Democrats into avoiding and ignoring the role of power and economics when discussing politcs. That is probably their greatest triumph.

[bluestateguy]

3. Perhaps

But we'll hit them right back with the hateful remarks that John McCain's "spitual advisor" has made. Oh and the Reverend Hagge.

[jackson_dem]

4. It isn't the same. Obamites are mistakenly assuring themselves with Hagee/Palsey

Do the math. Wright's comments will piss off far more people. Since most Catholics are white that will limit Hagee's damage to the rethug side. Hagee/Palsely can only be used if we nominate someone who doesn't have a racist pastor/mentor...

[Cant trust em]

5. Rev. Wright correctly places blame at the feet of European imperialism

a lot of death and destruction has come from those hands.

You make two good points.

[Bake]

14. Nobody is going to give a shit about that in the fall.

No "we deserved 9/11" candidate or "God Damn America" candidate (and that's how the Pukes will play it) will get anywhere near the White House.

Independents? They'll go for "Maverick" McCain.

Dems? A lot of us will have a hard time going to Obama, unless he throws Wright under the bus, and I mean completely disavows and severs his relationship with him.

That means McCain's the next President.

Bake

[Cant trust em]

16. agree. Under the bus is where he's going to have to be.

It will come up again. Obama will be asked directly, and he'll have to denounce and reject. He may have to pull actually have to pull a Canada/NAFTA this time and call Rev. Wright and apologize for having to throw him under.

[babylonsister]

7. McCain can't throw stones too far with Hagee as his buddy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee

[BooScout]

9. I disagree.....

I think Hagee appeals to Middle America. I'm not saying I agree with him. I'm just being pragmatic in the way much of America thinks. They don't think like you or I......shit they think in terms of Leave it to Beaver.

[babylonsister]

10. Could be, as long as you're not Christian or Jewish. nt

[Bake]

20. McCain won't have to. The 527s will.

Just like they did to Kerry.

Bake

[goodgd_yall]

21. Agreed n/t

[BlackVelvet04]

23. It was Hagee's supporters who elected george bush TWICE....

wake up.

[uponit7771]

8. Don't know, Hagee is just as poisonous

[backscatter712]

12. I was about to say...

If McCain's swiftboaters bring up Wright, let's bring up Hagee.

We'll see who's more toxic.

[Bake]

15. They're both toxic. Wright is more so.

Obama has to disavow him and throw him under the bus if he wants to see the inside of the White House other than on a tour group.

Bake

[backscatter712]

17. You hear some of Hagee's rhetoric?

"Islam in general -- those who live by the Koran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews."

--

"All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.

The newspaper carried the story in our local area, that was not carried nationally, that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it would was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other gay pride parades.

So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing."

--

"As millions of people anticipate the release of the latest Harry Potter book and film, we're reminded once again of Satan's ongoing attempt to deceive and destroy. The whole purpose of the Potter books is to desensitize readers and introduce them to the occult."

Wright's got nothing on Hagee.

[goodgd_yall]

25. I actually think between the two

Wright will appear more dangerous to most Americans---he sounds unpatriotic (I don't believe this at all, I can tell you that---just talking about many Americans) and he's a black man (most Americans know somewhere deep inside that Black people have every right to be angry, and I think knowing it's entirely justified scares them). Of those quotes above, I think many Americans can at least tolerate the first two. The third will just sound wacky, which makes Hagee easier to just discount as a kook.

No, I think Wright is more problematic than Hagee.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. I disagree bitterly with his election comments.

He instructs his flock to support Obama speciffically out of animus toward white people, and calls those who don't "Negroes who just do not get it."

Nobody should tell anyone to vote based on racial affinity, let alone based on racial animus!

Jesus was a poor black man who lived in a culture that was controlled by rich, white people. The Romans were rich, the Romans were Italian, which means they were European, which means they were white, and the Romans ran everything in Jesus’s country.

It just came to me within the past few week...why so many folk are hating on Barack Obama. He doesn’t fit the mold: he ain’t white, he ain’t rich, and he ain’t privileged.

Hillary fits the mold. Europeans fit the mold. Giuliani fits the mold. Rich, white men fit the mold.

Hillary never had a cab whiz by her and not pick her up because her skin was the wrong colour. Hillary never had to worry about being pulled over as a black man driving in the wrong. (sic)

Now I am sick of Negroes who just do not get it. Hillary was not a black boy raised in a single parent home. Barack was.

Barack knows what it means to be a black man living in a country and a culture that is controlled by rich, white people. Hillary can never know that. Hillary ain’t never been called a n----r. Hillary

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. There are feminists who say similar things about why women should support Clinton

I don't agree with either. I won't be guilt-tripped into supporting Clinton because she's a fellow female anymore than a black person should be pressured to support Obama.

[yardwork]

13. But Reverend Wright's church is in middle America.

Reverend Wright preaches in Illinois, which is part of middle America the last time I looked.

I think that we are seeing a bizarre overreaction to an African American pastor on DU today. Think of all the outrageous things that white preachers who support Republicans say!

Calm down, folks. This is a non-issue.

[Political Heretic]

18. I dunno if we're capable of having a neutral discussion, but I have a non-primary question to ask:

Seriously - this isn't loaded. I want to know as a far left liberal how you came to support Hillary Clinton?

Again, this isn't loaded - I'd need to answer the same question about how as a radical leftist I came to support Obama. Neither candidate is anything other than center-left.

But I'd be interested in hearing your story, because I find it fascinating. No trick. :P

[Bake]

26. The same way you support Obama.

He's not a far-left liberal either.

Bake

[Political Heretic]

30. Well that was the thing... I was wondering if it was the same or not

...that's why I was asking.

[BooScout]

32. Fair enough....

I actually think Hillary Clinton is further left than she is perceived to be. I think she (and her husband) moved to the center to be more electable.

As a far left Liberal I learned long ago that I was never going to get a candidate who matched me issue for issue.

With Clinton, I looked at how she is known globally. I think the biggest issue facing our next President is to begin restoring America's image abroad. Clinton is well known and well regarded overseas. I think she has a better grasp of global politcs than Obama does.

Next I looked at her stand on health care. You cannot have Universal Health Care without including every American in the plan. You cannot make it voluntary or it will never work. Hillary Clinton fought for Universal Health Care long before most Democrats even considered it to be an issue of importance. I think her history in working for it makes her the better candidate to get anywhere at all with it.

Economically, I think she has a better plan of stimulating growth.

The War in Iraq? - my most difficult issue with Clinton. What can I say? I was asked to put aside Kerry's & Edward's vote for IWR for the last election. I did. I moved on. I think she realizes we want out of Iraq as soon as possible and will work towards that.

[Political Heretic]

35. Honestly, I think those are great thoughtful reasons for picking a candidate, AND

I also think Clinton has a better health care plan. Hows that for something you're not going to hear every day from an Obama supporter? :)

I used to be an Edwards supporter, so you don't have to defend the need for mandates to me hee hee.

Health care ranks (for me personally) a little bit lower down my list. I care - but there are other reasons why I end up throwing my support behind Obama.

Thanks for replying - I find it very interesting. If DU could have a few more exchanges like this, and few less like what we commonly have, things would be better.

Cheers!

[Bake]

37. Well done, PH!

It's nice to see some actual civil discussion here!

I would have to say that I came to support HRC for many of the same reasons as the poster stated above. Plus, I look at the electability issue, particularly as it relates to being on the national stage, and HRC has much more of that. Obama burst onto the scene with his speech at the convention, and that's pretty much it. Plus, I have always been a huge supporter of Bill Clinton and I think it wouldn't hurt to have him back around.

Peace,

Bake

[Jersey Devil]

24. and Hillary has nothing like this she can be hit with - or

So where are the tax returns and the library donor list

[angie_love]

27. I agree with you...what to do...what to do...

That is the dilemma.

[JoFerret]

31. I feel somewhat the same

I can't go into high dudgeon mode about his views either. (Although I do hate the religiosity and sermonizing.)

But will it win an election/ no way. And the r/w must be drooling at the prospect.

The Obama campaign is going to have to find a way to deal with this. I have no idea how. But they are clever folk and will think of something. It does have to be dealt with though if he has any chance of any kind of national victory.

[LisaM]

33. If he has been campaigning from church

He needs to lost tax-exempt status.