BREAKING: MI Caucus Likely, Says DNC Rules Committee

[stahbrett]

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/03/06/breaking-michigan-caucus-likely-says-dnc-rules-committee-member.aspx

Michigan Democrats had originally planned on caucuses after the legally permissible Feb. 5 date, but then went along with top elected Democrats, including Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who pushed for an early primary.

Hillary Clinton won that Jan. 15 primary, but was the only major candidate on the ballot. Barack Obama and John Edwards had removed their names, although Obama supporters in the state urged voters to choose “uncommitted” over Clinton. Forty percent of the voters that day did just that, compared to 55 percent who voted for

[BuyingThyme]

1. Won?

Does she "win" on Christmas morinings?

[mmonk]

27. .

:rofl:

[americanstranger]

2. You said the 'C' word!

Let the laments of 'voter disenfranchisement' commence!

Good on MI, though, if they figure a way out of this.

- as

[Kittycat]

3. I'm cool with this.

I have a friend in MI that really wanted her vote as "uncommitted" to count toward Obama. She'll be thrilled at the news :)

[bluestateguy]

4. it would likely be closed

Meaning anyone who voted in the Republican primary would be excluded. This seems fair. If HIllary is going to win, I want it to be on Democratic votes only.

[ButterflyBlood]

5. That wouldn't be totally fair

Lots of Democrats voted in the Republican primary to intervene because their vote wouldn't count in the Dem primary.

[BooScout]

34. Tough shit

and we all know why you really think it wouldn't be fair. :eyes:

[fadedrose]

61. It's like the bible says,

knowledge increases sorrow. And the more you know about this Michigan mess, the more sorry you feel.

Sorry about the election, the ballot, the results and most sorry about who we elected to watch our backs. If we can't trust them to let us have an honest vote for the candidate we choose, how can we trust them to spend our tax money, get jobs for us, run the government, the schools, etc.? Gees, a primary seems like the easiest job they would have had and they blew it.

Our primary was like an election in a third-world dictatorship, where only the dictator's name appeared on the ballot and guess what he wins. And on top of that the election wasn't legal anyway....should we have Chavez come and help us out?

[John Q. Citizen]

8. Nothing wrong with that. i bet Obama does very well.

[lapfog_1]

10. If there was a way to do it,

it should be open to Democrats and Independents, but not republicans.

we are going to need independents come the GE, no matter who the nominee is, so we should start including them NOW.

Legally, I don't see how it can be done.

[TheDoorbellRang]

36. Thank you

for defending Independents' right to participate with the Dems if they choose to. These past few weeks I've seen way too many posts consigning us to Republican hell.

[Bake]

45. What "right" do independents have to vote in a party primary?

Where is that "right" guaranteed?

Bake

[TheDoorbellRang]

58. In a state's open primary laws, last time I looked

If I lived in a closed primary state, then that's a different story. I've seen too many post here where folks are indignant that indys are voting in primaries, as if we would be playing Limpball's games like his little dittoheads. Indys vote for who they consider the best candidate, not for a political party. There's also anywhere from 25-40% of us nationwide, so for some odd reason, candidates from any party like our support.

[lapfog_1]

112. There is no right, of course

and there isn't any right to actually select a nominee by vote or caucus. Even by closed primaries.

So... will you insist on your "right" to vote for a nominee (actually, vote for delegates for a nominee),
but insist that ONLY Democrats have that "right"?

Traditionally (and not a long tradition), Democrats have decided to have open primaries, as a way to attract new democrats (theory being that people are motivated to "show up" for a candidate and then, later, volunteer to work for the party).

Others (especially this year) want to see the Democrats nominate someone that draws support from within the party ranks... party purists, if you will... thinking that once the Democratic party nominates someone, then the public will have to choose between a Democratic party only choice and Republican party only choice.

I disagree with that. Not that I think either candidate left in the Democratic primary race reflects the party base. Hillary reflects the DLC faction, also aligned with blue dog democrats... whereas Obama reflects the "new politics" democrats... neither of whom are all that "progressive" nor "labor". If we had closed elections and party purists only, I suspect the nominee would have been Edwards. Or should have been.

But that's just me.

[JerseygirlCT]

20. I don't understand open caucuses/primaries anyway

If you want a say, join the party. Otherwise, too bad.

[Alhena]

25. On the bright side, that would emphasize the 15% of black voters

who will be a much bigger percentage of the Democratic voters.

[Alhena]

29. Also, Jesse Jackson won the Michigan caucus in 1988

I'm sure Bill Clinton would tell you he ran a good campaign. :)

[democrattotheend]

54. My coworker voted in the GOP primary because the Dem primary did not count

He is going to be pissed if he is excluded. But I guess it's only fair. And he lives in DC now (just moved here a few months ago, so he still votes in Michigan) so he can't caucus anyway.

[Romulox]

97. Nope. Michigan has NEVER required registration to participate in a primary. It's unfair to change

the rules now.

[PassingFair]

127. I seem to remember one year where we did....

too lazy to look it up, though.

I believe that states can decide
to run different types of primaries/
caucuses as they desire.

[Barack_America]

111. And Independents, or you have to give Indies...

...a chance to change their affiliation to Dem.

It's only fair.

[msallied]

6. Yes, let it be a caucus

Hillary will be effectively screwed.

[ExFreeper4Obama]

7. That doesn't bode well for Hillary. n/t

[Vinca]

9. That's good. Too bad for John Edwards and the rest, though.

They might have benefited from the original primary, but we'll never know.

[Kittycat]

11. I agree.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. They're Gonna Turn It Into A Stupid Ass Caucus? How Dumb.

What a stupid solution.

If they want the voices to be heard, then run a primary like they did to begin with. Stupid fucks.

[Kittycat]

13. That was their original plan.

Did you read the link?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

79. Link?

Read?

:rofl:

[wileedog]

14. Nobody can/will pay for it. n/t

[stahbrett]

16. They actually are deciding between a "stupid ass caucus", and a "smart ass caucus"

We may not know which one they choose to go with for a little while longer though.

[seabeyond]

92. that was funny. perusing down replies and yours hit me. busted out laughing. thanks n/t

[cali]

17. I haven't the vaguest idea whether this is a joke or a serious comment

lt me know, so I'll know how to respond.

[skipos]

18. Hillary Inc doesn't like caucuses because the "party activists" give Obama the win

They don't like states like AL, GA and LA because the blacks
They don't like states like KS, ID, and NE because they are red states
I'm not sure why they don't like blue states like WI, DE, or CT but I am sure they have a valid excuse.
They don't like the youth, they don't like independents, etc etc etc.

If you don't vote for Hillary, you don't count and they don't like you.

[cali]

28. but OMC

says he supports both Hillary and Obama, and that all his slagging on Obama is a oke.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

53. They Are Disenfranchising, Non-Representative Of The People, And Just Plain Dumb, All On Their Own.

Has nothing to do with who is or isn't running or who is or isn't winning them. Wake up.

[stahbrett]

59. Complaining about them during a contested nomination process is not good timing

We've had caucuses for something like 100 years if not longer. Plenty of time to "fix" it before and after this year.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

62. It's The First Time I've Really Become Aware Of Them And How They Work. I've Admitted That Readily.

As soon as I did, I started complaining about them. They're a mess.

[stahbrett]

68. Gotcha - I think that's the case for many folks, actually

I agree with a lot of the complaints myself, even though they just happen to seem to be contests that Obama does better in. But I just think that the time to really complain about them is when we aren't in an election cycle. It's sort of like watching a football game, and realizing that the rules that determine when the game clock is stopped and started doesn't make sense. That may be true, but the rule should not be changed during the game.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

71. I Agree. While They're Part Of The Process, They Are Part Of The Process.

I feel the same way about the SD's, and their role.

But I guess what I'm complaining about here, is that they're introducing a caucus where a primary had been, and I just don't think that's right.

[stahbrett]

80. I can see that point of view as well (nt)

[thoughtcrime1984]

60. Maybe you should wake up

Should the MI voters be heard? Before it was a resounding "yes!", now it is a "no"? Let's just give ALL the delegates to Hillary from MI, since she was the only one on the ballot. Would that meet with your approval?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

63. They Should Redo The Primary, As A Primary.

[stahbrett]

69. That would be fine with me

Obama would likely do a lot better than 0%. :D

But it appears that the Michigan bigwigs cannot or will not have a valid primary election, so it's either a caucus or nothing.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

74. I Think Obama Would Win The Primary.

But I also say that out of slight ignorance. Are there any numbers as to how they currently would both do there?

[stahbrett]

82. Not sure, but any poll numbers would wind up being inaccurate predictors, in my opinion

One of Obama's strengths is his ability to make up ground on Hillary's early leads in the polls.

[thoughtcrime1984]

153. It was at first going to be a caucus, no? nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

64. Whereas voting into hack-able machines owned by RWers is the epitome of representative democracy.

[powergirl]

85. The Clintons liked caucuses just fine

until the system did not yield votes. And President Bill Clinton won many a caucus and he embraced the system. Why is it bad now?

[seabeyond]

100. texas. hillary lost texas thru the caucus. someone said it wasnt real people. i am a real people

hubby was, the tatto lady was talking vagina and embarassing all the men, the nuns were real.

i dont know

caucus was a blast for me..... hillary/obama alike, .... we were all dems.

[Igel]

154. IF the TX superdelegates vote for her,

though, it would constitute a win for her. (Tx delegates come in three varieties--from the primaries, at-large from the caucuses, and super-delegates.)

But the super-delegates are real people. And all dems.

Just as the caucuses are independent and might overturn the popular vote, so the supers are independent and might overturn the caucus results. Thems the rules this time around. No point complaining about them if they don't help your candidate, or trying to change them mid-process.

Ah. That's not how the discourse goes, is it?

In any event, like OMC, I hate caucuses. On the other hand, I didn't know how they worked, until recently, and developed a dislike for them when I heard. Now, having seen one in action--even the lacklustre things called "caucus" in Texas, which are really just very brief secondary elections with a non-secret paper ballot, without any give and take--I can say I hate them.

[seabeyond]

156. No point complaining about them... i can pretty much accept the rules

with these like this as long as it is consistent, balanced and fair.... no, no need in complaining

[Igel]

152. OMC's speaking for OMC.

He's not Bill Clinton, so Bill Clinton's embracing of the system is irrelevant, as was HRC's. (Personally, I think "embracing" overstates the case: "accepted them as fact and went with them" strikes me as more neutral.)

The Texas caucus amounts to a second election held at dinner time for 30 minutes. You make it, fine; you don't, can't, etc., and you don't count. Out of town, at work, can't get transportation, get stuck in traffic, no matter. No absentee ballots, no early voting, none of the things that the Party pushed for to make the elections more convenient and increase turnout. The dem caucus system in Texas is designed to reduce turnout.

And that's not even counting the delegate-selection crap. I refused to pay for a babysitter so I had a 4-year-old boy wandering around for 2 1/2 hours while the precinct got its act together.

In fact, the Texas system undervalues the rank-and-file member. Why? Because the least oomph for the vote is in the primary election itself. Show up at a caucus, you get more value for your vote since so many are excluded: It's to reflect not the rank-and-file, but the activists and the dedicated, die-hard supporters, to make sure that the Party's support is properly based.

In fact, the Texas caucus system is to the primary system what the super-delegates are to the caucus system. Just as die-hard supporters and activists are more important than most dems, so elected and party officials are more important than caucus-goers. The caucuses don't need to reflect the popular vote and nobody really cares about overturning the "will of the majority", that's the rule, the caucuses make their own determination. In precisely the same fashion the super-delegates are free agents and what they do doesn't need to reflect either the caucuses or the popular vote, they make their own determination. Some rules are good, some bad, it seems.

Odd that people are suddenly concerned that that particular rule might be followed, while others must be followed and respected.

[Catherina]

37. A joke

The most serious comment I've seen from that poster was some sort of a chickenhawk bird call :shrug:

[seabeyond]

94. must be new hillary talking point. caucus bad. been around a while have never heard....

another thread florida new primary bad.... seems the only option for hillary people s give them the delegates.... good

[Debi]

33. There you are

:hi:

Caucuses are great :P

So there.

[Zachstar]

38. Stupid fucks?

Stupid fucks just because somehow the Caucus system benefits Obama?

See here is the thing. In America you are supposed to be INVOLVED with politics. If a state decides to do that by making people stand up and show themselves to the world as making THEIR say then that is great.

The Caucus system worked well for Bill in the past. Yet suddenly when Clinton does not do so well it is a "stupid solution"?!?!

LOL!!!

Take your bullshit elseware.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

56. Not Bullshit At All. Caucuses Are Amazingly Flawed, Unrepresentative, And In Fact Quite Dumb.

I have no idea why they exist as they do. I don't care who they do or don't benefit, they're still dumb.

Elections should have far more integrity than that. Even in 5th grade we picked our class presidents with a better process. In real elections, the votes are private for a reason. There are long polling hours for a reason. Everyone gets a chance to vote for a reason. Peer pressure does not really factor in for a reason. There are so many reasons why caucuses are bullshit, and I love the hypocrisy every single one of you show in claiming I don't like them because Obama fares better in them.

The fact of the matter is, it is all of YOU that DO like them ONLY because Obama benefits from them, so please stop the projection. I don't like them for the mere fact that they take away from the integrity of elections and are amazingly flawed and unrepresentative of the peoples wishes. That's an honorable reason, as opposed to the selfish sports like mentality reasons you all have for liking them. So spare me.

[Zachstar]

57. So where were you back in the 90's with this.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

65. I Was Sitting At Home Completely Ignorant As To The Process.

Now that I know about it, I'm appalled by it. In fact, as soon as I learned about them and how they work, my jaw dropped and I was amazed that these highly unrepresentative and flawed processes even existed. I don't know why people accept these as legitimate.

[Inuca]

40. Speaking of stupid ass.... n/t

[TheDoorbellRang]

41. They can't afford another primary.

They shot their wad on the first one, and caucuses are a lot cheaper to do.

[seabeyond]

133. too pragmatic, too logical. too reasonable. n/t

[OzarkDem]

67. Dems should stand for honest and fair voting

not these outdated, crooked caucuses. What a poor example they set.

[seabeyond]

134. giving hillary florida, without campaigning,denying voters, and mi only her name on ballet? now

that is a fair election, yes sir.....

bah hhahahahah

teach me ozark...

[tekisui]

75. My understanding is that they cannot legally have a Primary.

But, the caucus could end up a caucus in name only. Meaning that they go in and cast a vote, not have speeches and re-votes in the corners, etc.

[adoraz]

15. a caucus would be awesome :)

[JackORoses]

19. Bring on the Caucus!

too bad Hillary doesn't think Caucususes are significant.

[high density]

21. Caucus...ut oh! Clinton has opened up a can of worms she might not have wanted open.

If that happens it sounds like we'll have another state that will not be "big" and "doesn't count."

[DiverDave]

22. Rules dont apply to me, I drive 100mph

I fill up and dont pay, hell, I even put the wrong dvd in the case...I'm above the rules.
(do I really need a sarcasm thingie?)

They broke the rules, they knew what would happen, yet they did it anyway...and look, they WOULD have mattered if they voted when the where supposed to.


Sorry, no sympathy here, they thought they were better then the rest of us.

[bunnies]

23. Best news Ive heard all day.

Im all for a caucus in MI. Bring it.

[madfloridian]

24. The FL lawsuit against Dean could affect MI also...March 17

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1871

I hope Obama beats her butt this time around. I am sick of her trying to win again since she could not win the first time.

[Zachstar]

26. Ah I look VERY forward to a new Caucus.

Cheaper.. Simple... Effective at getting people TALKING about who they are supporting!!

I look VERY forward to a spirited run for the delegates there!

I hope Fl will do the same!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. Usually In A Re-Match You Have The Same Rules

When Floyd Mayweather and Oscar DeLahoya have their re-match I don't think they will fight bare fisted which would favor the Golden Boy...

[stahbrett]

42. This isn't a re-match - the first one did not count, and both candidates were not there (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. Call It A Re-Do

It will be like a basketball game of one on one... It's replayed the first time on a half court and the second time on a full court...

Primaries are small (d) democratic because they are more inclusive...Everybody gets to vote...In caucuses if you're working, have children, are physically challenged, or older it's harder to participate...

Why game the system to win?

[stahbrett]

49. Michigan tried to game the system by breaking the DNC rules

A caucus in the near future may not be ideal, but it's apparently (a) not feasible to have a valid primary, (b) more attractive to Michigan's bigwigs than being left out completely.

[Inuca]

43. Well.....

it's not a re-match, because there was no match to begin with.

[andym]

47. It will be like WA

WA had a caucus to decide delegates and a primary that acted as a beauty contest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

50. Hillary Lost The Primary 50% -48% And The Caucus 66% -34%

It would be as if the Suns beat the Mavericks but in the re-match Amare Stoudamire couldn't dunk the ball...

[jzodda]

31. caucus great for Obama

We caucus very very well. Thats a fine idea!

[LittleClarkie]

32. That would be the fastest and cheapest thing for both states to do

Let's see if the Florida Dems can get a grip and do what's best for their voters.

[grantcart]

35. hmmmm and would that make Florida look bad for trying to force a false

Clinton victory.

[underpants]

39. Somewhere some bleary eyes staffers are reserving rooms in Detroit and East Lansing

Thanks guys and gals we appreciate it. :patriot:

[Abacus]

44. Good for them,

I'm glad that they were able to work something out on behalf of the voters.

[blocker]

46. FINALLY AN ELECTION!

[Mudcat]

51. 40% showed up just to say "anybody but Clinton" ?

this bodes not well for Hillary!

[StevieM]

55. Nope, that's an Obama lie (one of many)

Obama had a get out the vote operation to vote uncommitted. Then he turned around and acted like it was an "anti-Hillary" vote.

That's why Michigan's delegation should be seated as it. Sen. Obama broke the rules by bringing the Michigan Primary results into the proccess. If there were results to be referred to and used then there were results period. They should count.

But as always, the rules only apply if you're Hillary.

Steve

[TheDonkey]

76. keep trying to play that V card.

[slick8790]

52. Good deal, I suppose. n/t

[OzarkDem]

66. Caucuses are bad

too much fraud and vote manipulation.

Can't they just do it honestly and fairly?

I hope this goes to court. Its wrong.

[cottonseed]

70. Caucuses are badazz!

The truest form of Democracy.

[OzarkDem]

72. You like rigged elections?

Funny, most Dems don't.

[cottonseed]

81. Most real Dems love them.

Never heard a peep until this year.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cottonseed]

93. You've got my number?

Aren't you the guy worried about "too much fraud and vote manipulation" in caucuses?

[cottonseed]

119. Who is we? and what are you going to do with my number?

Haven't heard back from you. Just interested.

[seabeyond]

123. you know att..... welll.... they got your number. you do like the caucus, so....

you advocate crooked elections, ergo you must be a terrorist.

[OzarkDem]

126. Go drink some coffee

[seabeyond]

130. just had a cup, thank you, but why your are interested in telling me what to

drink leaves me in a quandry. is that along with "having someones #".... you also know what beverage they prefer. lol lol

you silly

[seabeyond]

141. tell me, really. you are psychic aren't you? you were letting me know i left

my last cup of coffee for the day in the nuker. that is it, isn't it. wink

appreciate it.

[seabeyond]

88. i hadnt either. we had a blast at the one tues, ... here in texas. hillary/obama

dems alike. it was great.

[Igel]

155. No, actually.

The truest form of democracy is majoritarianism, where 50% + 1 can do what they want to the 50% -1. All the restrictions, all the supermajorities and needing approval of this assembly and that legislature are deviations from true democracy.

True democracy is that if the majority wants to confiscate everything you own and make you into a slave, they can do so; if you happen to be in the majority, you can do that to them. Majoritarianism is an evil. It's not for naught that the Greeks that invented it restricted the franchise to certain classes of free men, *they* were the demos: Property rights were restricted, women were far from emancipated, and they had slavery. Many people in the 20th century (and 19th, and 18th) also decided that the demos included just the "right kind" of people, and seem to posit a "we the people" in confrontation with a different set of what must be "they the non-people".

Caucuses are a free for all in which, true to Greek form, many are excluded from the process and the strongest--not necessarily the best--wins. Brow-beating is fine, gaming the system is also good. Not just "ok", but a virtue. In other words, there's a difference between "true democracy" and "liberal democracy". I like my democracy liberal, thank you, with all the limitations and protections built in and hard to remove.

[seabeyond]

77. no they arent. any more than electronic machines that are corrupted

geez.... nothing is good enough for hillary supporters unless it is handing hillary the delegates.

[OzarkDem]

86. Wow, what lack of credibility you have

So called Dems in DU promoting crooked elections, just because its the only way their candidate can win...

Interesting. DU'ers will remember these comments.

[seabeyond]

87. no... it is a solution for michigans to get to vote. resolve a problem

compromise.

and a caucus is as honest as the poeple running it. electronic voting is as honest as the people running it,... we have found in 2004 and beyond

[OzarkDem]

91. Promoting crooked elections is not a solution

sorry, you've lost all credibility with me, and many others I'm sure.

[seabeyond]

102. you hillary people are starting to scare me..... a bet twilight zone here. n/t

[OzarkDem]

116. Sorry, your post is incoherent

care to explain or take another stab at spelling?

[seabeyond]

120. gave you zone, but no other corrections to be made. n/t

[OzarkDem]

122. What is "zone"?

Sorry, I'm not into science fiction.

[seabeyond]

135. let it go. was a joke. a giggle a funny..... n/t

[apocalypsehow]

146. "crooked elections" = "my candidate loses such elections." Your credibility is ZERO on this matter.

n/t.

[theboss]

101. How do you commit fraud in a caucus?

Everyone knows who everybody is voting for.

[seabeyond]

103. sssshhh, he will have your number or you lose credit, or god know what he comes up with on u. n/t

[Zachstar]

106. You hope it goes to court because it will not benefit Clinton as well...

Oh and I STRONGLY suggest you do not urge Clinton to take this to court for being a caucus. She is already well known for being very childish about Caucuses and another suit now will alienate more people.

Stop with the Caucus hate this late in the game. The time to do something about it was years ago. But as usual the anything to win crap shows.

And before you ask.. If the caucus system benefited Clinton I also would have nothing to say as the rules were set long ago and the time to make a fuss about it was then.

I think the Caucus system is a wonderful system that gets people involved with the process rather than just slinking in and pressing a button. This is democracy in action.

[seabeyond]

73. good on michigan figuring out HOW to take care of their voters without just giving the delegates to

hillary.

i am thrilled happy and relieved for michigan. maybe florida will be reasonable... k, dont laugh. i know. they havent been since 2000

[totodeinhere]

78. Watch the Clinton people whine.

They know that if it's a caucus Obama will either win outright or at the very least come so close that it's a wash in delegate numbers. This is great for Obama.

[seabeyond]

90. they are.... lol lol, look right above this post. bah hhaa. insists like cause obama wins

that way. not seeing the logic in that, but wtf.

[David Zephyr]

83. Good news! Michigan should have a chance to vote with candidates on the ballot.

This is hopeful.

[npincus]

89. Yippee!!!

Gobama.

[AtomicKitten]

95. A strong argument is that caucuses cost less than primaries.

[seabeyond]

104. but i guess if you are happy they resolved you advocate crooked elections????

my head is spinning.

[AtomicKitten]

108. Simply because she's losing doesn't give her the right to call this democratic process "crooked."

[seabeyond]

110. i was happy michigan resolved and they would get to vote. then i was accused of being ok with

"crooked" elections. wtf. i didnt have a clue.

it was a hillary supporter. i guess they dont want a caucus either. lol. go figure. i thought it was a good shitty answer to a shitty problem. my bad. i liked our caucus in texas

[AtomicKitten]

113. I like caucuses because electronic voting machines aren't involved.

They are probably the closest means of a clean election we have going for us.

[seabeyond]

117. then what are they bitchin about. that is what i was thinking. at least paper trail

and i didnt see where anything "crooked" could happen when i went to one. it was a blast.

[AtomicKitten]

118. It really does have a sense of community.

I kinda like the idea of voting out loud instead of behind closed doors!

[aquart]

96. So they just ruled for Obama.

Because caucusing is the fine practice of seductive intimidation and he wins on that hands down.

[seabeyond]

105. geeez, if it isnt just handing hillary the vote, .... it wont do it for hillary supporters, will it

no room for compromise, no room for resolving. simply give hillary what she wants

i am learning soooooo much

why are you all afraid

[Zachstar]

124. This is another reason why Clinton will lose.

This bullshit against caucuses is just what is costing Clinton multiple Caucus voters.

You had your chance to try to talk the party out of Caucus elections and go with the more expensive primary system many months ago. Yet only now when they do not benefit Clinton so well that we start hearing about how terrible they suddenly are?

Take your bullshit elseware.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

98. That's fine. I say bring it and may the best Caucusian win. That would be Obama!

[Romulox]

99. I doubt this is legal. nt

[seabeyond]

107. why?

[Romulox]

115. Because there has already been a state-sanctioned contest.

The DNC can't simply demand vote after vote until it gets the "correct" answer.

Moreover, a caucus will exclude a great number of people who have already voted. I think there may therefore be a problem under Michigan law/the Michigan Constitution.

[seabeyond]

136. dnc.... again with the blame to dnc. michigan fucked up. they are trying to resolve

THEIR fuck up. htey played with the big boy and lost, at the cost of a lot of peoples votes..... i dont know legal or not. i have heard mention it wasnt legal and they have been talking about htis a lot. i would think THEY would know. we will see

thanks for the info

[SKKY]

109. Oh yea. This will go over like a fart in church with the Clinton people...

[Binka]

125. When Hillary Whines Maybe Everyone Will Realize She Doesn't Give A Shit About MI & FLA Voters

This is too rich! Be careful what you whine for Hillary you might not GET it like you WANTED.

[seabeyond]

143. the new talking point on florida seems to be... NO new primary. not fair

it was already done... yada yada. cause obama was cool with it and dean talking about it.

[Barack_America]

114. Isn't a second election illegal according to MI law?

:shrug:

[hell-bent]

121. No fucking caucuses

And,it should be a closed primary. No Rethugs should be allowed to vote against Hillary Clinton in our primary.

[Zachstar]

129. They have been voting FOR Clinton.

Remember that the repugs want this going on and on to help them get more time.

A caucus is good it worked for democracy for years it will do it again. Suddenly going against it because it benefits Obama is bull. Sorry but it is too late to be crapping on the caucus system.

Wait till after the GE and bring it up again for debate. Maybe in 2012 there will not be as many of them.

[seabeyond]

138. he./she knows that. think back to talking to repugs in 2004. clinton people have picked up the

same rove tactics.

[Igel]

157. Actually, they've broken for BO.

One claim was that in Tx enough conservative repubs crossed over for HRC that they voted 52-48% for BO, in other words, that the margin of repubs that went for BO was smaller than in the other states so far. HRC got a greater percentage of repub votes than usual in Tx, it would appear.

But that's still an advantage for BO in any event, just a smaller advantage.

OMC is not saying to scrap the caucus system now, and I don't see how what he said could reasonably be taken otherwise. He argued against it as a decent system. There's a difference, and not a trivial one, between the two readings.

[SKKY]

132. I thought the general assumption was that rethugs were voting FOR Clinton...

...based on the notion that she would be the easier candidate to take down in the GE.

[seabeyond]

139. everyone knows. the poster is playing a game with you.... n/t

[Bilyb]

128. Michigan should Caucus to determine if they want to have a caucus :-)

Obama should offer to pay...

[smiley_glad_hands]

131. So now watch Clinton say that a caucus is unfair and that the first results should count.

Even though she was the only one on the ballot.

When she does that, we will know that she is done.

[seabeyond]

137. yup yup yup/ i didnt know it was such a crooked, unfair and illegal thing, the caucus

but that is what the hillary people are saying above, yup yup yup

[Binka]

145. See Post 125 I Agree Completely!

Gee too bad for Hill.

[loveangelc]

140. I wonder if this is true! If so thats very good news for Obama.

hillary shouldnt complain she will just have to get her people out...

[BeyondGeography]

142. Great for Obama

:thumbsup:

[seabeyond]

144. why is a caucus necessarily so much better for obama. not getting why hillary afraid

or why we see it as an advantage to obama

[seabeyond]

147. please tell me, why is caucus assumed to be good for obama. why hillary afraid?

i dont get why people assume it will benefit obama and hurt hillary....

[Romulox]

149. Caucuses exclude the hoi-polloi. nt

[seabeyond]

150. like the lottie tottie.... jr leaguers... well then they are fair weather voters

me... i had a blast being with all the commoners. the pony tails, ragged jeans, baggey sweatshirts, long hair on guys... it was a blast. but my hoytie toytie hubby all nice and neat went, wink.

i am really having a tough time believing this is the reason.... geeesh

[Diane R]

148. Not good news for Queen Hillary.

[tokenlib]

151. In 2004 we could vote in the caucus on the internet, by mail, or in person........

...so this is nothing like Iowa or anywhere else.

[DiverDave]

158. Just amazing, the rules mean nothing.

Sorry bout that folks, we were arrogant enough to put YOUR vote on the line, and we lost...well maybe not, keep whining.- The state democratic party from MI and FL.

[redqueen]

159. Yes!

Can't wait to see those results!

:bounce: