Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

HILLARY THE #1 RECIPIENT OF HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY MONEY

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:04 PM
Original message
HILLARY THE #1 RECIPIENT OF HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY MONEY
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 04:08 PM by nebula
HRC is now the top recipient of healthcare industry money, more than anyone else in Congress.

formerly the 2nd largest recipient after GOP Senator Rick Santorum, until Santorum left the Senate last year. She has since then accumulated more health-industry contributions than any Dem or Rep in Congress. Her health-care industry donations from pharmaceuticals, insurance companies, hospitals, have likely exceeded $1 million since.



---------------------
Health-care sector, once a critic of then-first lady's plans for reforms, now lavishing contributions on senator.
July 12 2006: 10:41 AM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The health-care industry, once a fierce critic of then-first lady Hillary Clinton's reform plans for the sector, is now lavishing campaign contributions on the U.S. senator ahead of her expected presidential bid.

According to Center for Responsive Politics, a non-partisan group that tracks campaign finance filings, Clinton has received $781,112 in contributions from the health-care sector during the current election cycle, which makes her the No. 2 recipient of funds from that sector, behind only Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., who received $977,354.
Hillary Clinton is the No. 2 recipient of campaign contributions from the health care industry, according to a non-partisan group that tracks donations.
Hillary Clinton is the No. 2 recipient of campaign contributions from the health care industry, according to a non-partisan group that tracks donations.

Clinton, the only Democrat to be in the top five in total donations from the sector, is also the No. 1 senator in terms of donations from nurses and health professionals, and the No. 2 recipient of donations from employees of hospitals and nursing homes, as well as insurance companies.

The center's Web site shows that the sector is not the top contributor to Clinton. Donations from lawyers, retirees as well as Wall Street, real estate and the entertainment industries have all topped her contributions from health care. She is also the No. 1 recipient from each of those sectors.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/12/news/newsmakers/healthcare_clinton/index.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm sure she is, and that only tells me they're hoping to be able to influence
her position on their businesses. It DOESN'T mean that they will succeed! I was a corp. buyer for a number of years and I had lots of offers, favors, and deals made. It was nice, but I ALWAYS place the PO with the company that provided the best deal for our company.

It's unfair to assume that EVERY politician would take the side of the guys who gave them the most money! Sure it happens, but NOT ALL THE TIME!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The fact that her plan is to force us to buy insurance from these outfits
would indicate they have succeeded. If she was planning any reforms that might actually benefit us these companies would be screaming bloody murder, not writing her checks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. Except her plan does not do that. No matter how many times Obama suypporter repeat the lie
The American Health Choices Plan preserves existing health insurance and offers new choices to those
with insurance and to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance. It ensures
portability so that Americans do not lose coverage when they change or lose their jobs. Americans will
have three options:

1) Keep Current Health Care Coverage: Americans who are satisfied with the coverage they
have today can keep it. Nothing would interfere with their insurance or their relationship
with their health care provider. The only significant change they will see will be lower costs
and higher quality health care as the modernization initiatives to improve value in our
health care system take effect and as the achievement of seamless coverage reduces the
hidden tax on premiums that comes from current cost-shifting.

2) A Choice of Health Plan Options: Businesses, employees, and the uninsured will have the
option of buying group insurance through a new Health Choices Menu. This Menu will
give all Americans the same set of insurance options that their Member of Congress has.
Without creating new bureaucracy, the Menu will be part of the Federal Employee Health
Benefit Program (FEHBP), which includes numerous, high-quality private health insurance
options. The Health Choices Menu will have the purchasing power of millions of
Americans in securing high-quality and affordable insurance. States will also have the
option of banding together to offer the same type of choices in a region of the country if
they wish. The benefits will be as good as those offered to Members of Congress. Such
coverage includes mental health parity, and many plans offer dental coverage. In addition,
as a condition of doing business with the federal government, insurers must cover highpriority
preventive services that experts agree are proven and effective. This focus on
prevention will improve health and lower costs in the long run.

3) A Choice of a Public Plan Option: In addition to the array of private insurance choices
offered, the Health Choices Menu will also provide Americans with a choice of a public plan
option, which could be modeled on the traditional Medicare program, but would cover the
same benefits as guaranteed in private plan options in the Health Choices Menu without
creating a new bureaucracy. The alternative will compete on a level playing field with
traditional private insurance plans. It will provide a more affordable option, in part through
greater administrative savings. It will not be funded through the Medicare trust fund.


http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
31. If it's any comfort to you, I think Obama's plan sucks too
n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #31
47. Why do I feel sick? (nt)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
37. The Public Plan will end up being for the poor and "uninsurable" only
No way in hell the insurance cos. are going to obligingly participate in their own demise.

Also, what happens to a mandate that is subsidized after the GOP gets back into power and cuts all the subsidies? Answer: It becomes an unfunded mandate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. So Hillary is evil for forcing private to compete with public therefore making private lower prices?
:shrug:

"Also, what happens to a mandate that is subsidized after the GOP gets back into power and cuts all the subsidies? Answer: It becomes an unfunded mandate."

Gee you could say that about any plan that a Democrat offers that involves government subsidies.

Or are Obama's subsidies somehow immune to GOP predation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. You are obviously missing my point
There will be no competing public plan that is open to all Americans. The insurance industry is Not. Going. To. Let. It. Happen.

My comment about the GOP applies to any subsidies in an Obama plan as well. But at least he's not forcing every adult to buy insurance, like she wants to. You can bet your ass the repukes will leave the mandates intact, so they can collect blood money from us poor dumb serfs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
49. In other words her plan is such a threat the insurance companies pay her for it
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 05:32 PM by Catherina
her plan is such a threat to the scum sucking insurance industry that by July 2006, they'd already given her $150,600 and that figure has skyrocketted according to Open Secrets.

Clinton leading:
    Casinos/Gambling
    Commercial Banks
    Health Professionals
    Health Services/HMOs
    Hedge Funds & Private Equity
    Hospitals/Nursing Homes
    Insurance
    Lawyers/Law Firms
    Lobbyists
    Misc Health
    Oil & Gas
    Pharmaceuticals/Health Products
    Real Estate
    Retired
    Securities & Investment
    Telephone Utilities
    Tobacco
    TV/Movies/Music


Obama leading
    Computers/Internet
    Education
    Retired


The difference in donations from lobbyists is disgusting
    $783,290 – Clinton
    $99,240 – Obama


She’s almost tied with McCain for donations from the Oil & Gas industry


Hillary Clinton’s debt report was interesting. Two outstanding items are $215,000 to AETNA for health insurance for her staff and $299,000 to BlueCross for health insurance for her staff.

Here we have a candidate who wants to mandate insurance on American workers and small businesses who can’t afford to pay her campaign’s own health care premiums. I also want to know why the debt has been allowed to linger. If I miss my insurance payments, my insurance gets cancelled. If a small business misses their insurance payments, their employees’ insurance gets cancelled.

Big health insurance has allowed Hillary Clinton’s campaign to fall a half a million dollars behind in their insurance premiums. Big insurance is basically making an in-kind donation to Hillary Clinton’s campaign by providing a service for free. The pay off—their fondest dream is to rip off working Americans with a mandate for junk high deductible insurance—they expect must be pretty large.

http://healthybagofpolitics.blogspot.com/2008/02/big-insurance-gives-hillary-half.html


As one poster there pointed out

    this should be illegal if it isn't already. It's clearly a terrible ethics violation, and it says big insurance is already running the show in Hillary's campaign


You can see the debts to the insurance company here: http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2008/M2/C00431569/D_DEBTS_C00431569.html

Good luck getting them to carry your payments over and keep your policy active if you don't pay up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. She is NOT forcing you to buy ins. from them. She also offers the option to buy into medicare.
The only real difference between the two plans seems to be that Hillary's plan makes participation in SOME health care plan mandatory, and Barack's done not. I happen to favor her plan because there is a lot of truth to the comparrison between social security & healthcare. If SS were optional it would NEVER WORK!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:55 PM
Original message
And the fact that the insurance companies aren't yelling about either her's or Obama's plans
is the first clue that something is very, very wrong with both of them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
45. Ding ding ding!! We have a winner!
Both Barack and Hillary should stop expecting people to believe that you're going to include the bloated, parasitic insurance industry in on a plan from the get-go and not have them make it as advantageous to themselves as possible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
46. Maybe they're just convinced that there will NEVER be any
HC reform passed! This subject has been a topic of presidential debates and agendas for soo damn many years, I think the insurance companies are sure it STILL won't happen.

If we don't get a very strong Dem majority in the House & the Senate, I think they're RIGHT TOO!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #33
59. Nope. She's NOT OFFERING THE OPTION TO BUY INTO MEDICARE -- read what it says
>>
a public plan
option, which could be modeled on the traditional Medicare program
>>

It says it *COULD* be modeled on the traditional Medicare program.


And the "traditional Medicare program" includes Medicare Advantage -- HMOs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Well, if I were a health insurance company covering my bets on the Democratic side,
I'd choose Hillary. She's promised to force everyone to buy my product and with no cost containment for the health care service provider. Damn right I'd bet on her.

Hillary will institutionalize greed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Their investment has already paid off

Hillary's idea of universal healthcare is to mandate the purchase of corporate health insurance. That is nothing but a huge giveaway to the insurance companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. to mandate the purchase of corporate health insurance" Another lie.
A key element of Hillary;s plan (as with Obama's) is the massive expansion of public health options that include both fund9ing and changing of eligibility requirements.

The American Health Choices Plan preserves existing health insurance and offers new choices to those
with insurance and to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance. It ensures
portability so that Americans do not lose coverage when they change or lose their jobs. Americans will
have three options:

1) Keep Current Health Care Coverage: Americans who are satisfied with the coverage they
have today can keep it. Nothing would interfere with their insurance or their relationship
with their health care provider. The only significant change they will see will be lower costs
and higher quality health care as the modernization initiatives to improve value in our
health care system take effect and as the achievement of seamless coverage reduces the
hidden tax on premiums that comes from current cost-shifting.

2) A Choice of Health Plan Options: Businesses, employees, and the uninsured will have the
option of buying group insurance through a new Health Choices Menu. This Menu will
give all Americans the same set of insurance options that their Member of Congress has.
Without creating new bureaucracy, the Menu will be part of the Federal Employee Health
Benefit Program (FEHBP), which includes numerous, high-quality private health insurance
options. The Health Choices Menu will have the purchasing power of millions of
Americans in securing high-quality and affordable insurance. States will also have the
option of banding together to offer the same type of choices in a region of the country if
they wish. The benefits will be as good as those offered to Members of Congress. Such
coverage includes mental health parity, and many plans offer dental coverage. In addition,
as a condition of doing business with the federal government, insurers must cover highpriority
preventive services that experts agree are proven and effective. This focus on
prevention will improve health and lower costs in the long run.

3) A Choice of a Public Plan Option: In addition to the array of private insurance choices
offered, the Health Choices Menu will also provide Americans with a choice of a public plan
option, which could be modeled on the traditional Medicare program, but would cover the
same benefits as guaranteed in private plan options in the Health Choices Menu without
creating a new bureaucracy. The alternative will compete on a level playing field with
traditional private insurance plans. It will provide a more affordable option, in part through
greater administrative savings. It will not be funded through the Medicare trust fund.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/americanhealthchoicesplan.pdf

Facts and the truth are apparently no very important to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Yea that 35% profit margin is probably not big enough for them anymore
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. That's why she wants UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE.
Not universal medical care. There is a difference. If everyone's mandated to buy into a private insurance plan, those cos. stand to make billions off of not only what people pay but taxpayer dollars. It's a huge racket but hey - Hillary's fighting for US! :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
InAbLuEsTaTe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. No kidding. The healthcare industry would LOVE everybody to have to buy their insurance.
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 04:17 PM by InAbLuEsTaTe
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. "everyone's mandated to buy into a private insurance plan" Another lie by Obama supporters
Everyone is required to sign up for a plan but they do not have to choose a private plan. A key part to Hillary's plan is a massive expansion of public health options and the changing of eligibility requirements to make many of these public plans available to all.

Obama's plan is very similar in this regard.

But I guess lying is better :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Questions about the plan:
does the government option cost money? I understand that it is subsidized for people who can't afford it, but what about other people who may elect public health care option, or can they even do that?

The idea here is to run public health care more efficiently and being not for profit run it at less cost to the consumer with better services less hassle -- ultimately decreasing the number of people that elect private plans, forcing them to provide better services to compete or -- hopefully -- eventually driving enough of them out of the market as to make a single payer system more palettable to americans?

What about new regulations for private providers? John Edwards had a freaking god-awesome list of requirements for private health care: they would be required to provide comprehensive coverage (medical, dental and mental health services), there would be restrictions on the amount of power insurance companies have to deny services or veto the opinions of doctors, etc... What about that?

If you tell me just to go look it up I'm going to pass. Health care isn't a top issue of mine. I'm just curious and hoping someone will be excited about telling me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Hillary's plan is very close to Edwards plan
"The idea here is to run public health care more efficiently and being not for profit run it at less cost to the consumer with better services less hassle -- ultimately decreasing the number of people that elect private plans, forcing them to provide better services to compete or -- hopefully -- eventually driving enough of them out of the market as to make a single payer system more palettable to americans?"

Exactly. Which is why the mandatory sign up (likely to swell the public plan ranks far more than the private plans) is a integral part. I want single payer but I see both Hillary & Edwards' respective plans as bridges to that goal by letting them compete in the market on a massive scale.

Some stuff regarding regulating insurance companies

Hillary’s agenda returns patients to the center of the health care system again by empowering and relying on the skill of those who provide care - physicians, nurses, other clinicians, and health care organizations - to improve that care continually.

header

While health care in the U.S. has enormous strengths, many Americans worry about the quality of care they receive. In 2006, a survey conducted by the Kaiser Family Foundation and AHRQ found that 51 percent of Americans were dissatisfied with the quality of the American health care system. Per capita health care spending in the U.S. is far greater than in any other industrialized country, yet other nations have better health outcomes, including longer life-expectancy, lower rates of obesity and related conditions such as heart disease and diabetes, fewer years of life lost due to failure to treat treatable conditions, and lower infant mortality.

According to a RAND study, adults in the U.S. on average fail to receive about half the recommended care that modern clinical science says they need. In fact, the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 1999 reported that between 44,000 and 98,000 people die each year in our nation’s hospitals as a result of preventable injuries from medical care. In short, for the amount of money that we spend in health care, Americans should be getting better quality care. Improving the quality of our health care system can and will reduce costs.

header

A reformed high-quality healthcare system must include a strong evidence base so we know what treatments work best, a quality measurement infrastructure based on this evidence to assess the quality of care patients receive from their health care providers, the integration of those quality measures into the delivery of care through health information technology, reimbursement incentives and accountability, and a commitment to placing patients at the center of the system, through increased transparency and greater access to information. To achieve this, Hillary will:

header

1. Empower Physicians to Improve Quality Through Physician-Driven Certification Programs: In our health care system today, there is tremendous variation in the cost and quality of care from state to state, and even from hospital to hospital in the same town. For example, in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania spine surgery rates are 1.99 per 1,000 Medicare patients, while in Lancaster, they are 5.44 per 1,000. Physician specialty boards, such as the American Board of Internal Medicine, have established Maintenance of Certificate (MOC) programs to promote lifelong learning and help doctors stay up to date on the latest scientific advances and procedures. Doctors who scored higher on MOC examinations had better outcomes in treating patients with diabetes, and were more likely to ensure that their patients received mammograms. Heart attack patients treated by board certified doctors were 15% less likely to die than those treated by non-certified doctors. MOC programs help ensure that the right care is given to patients at the right time, improving quality, while reducing costs. Hillary’s proposal would federally recognize these initiatives and create financial incentives for participating in them.
2. Recognize Independent Private-Public Quality Trust and Improve Quality Measures: As President, Hillary would direct the Secretary of HHS to invest $125 million in federal funding to recognize a private-public consensus-based organization, such as the National Quality Forum, to (a) certify for enhanced reimbursement physician, hospital, and nursing home MOC programs, (b) identify gaps in existing national quality measures, (c) set national priorities for the development and testing of new quality measures, (d) fund organizations with expertise to develop additional measures that advance national priorities, and (e) endorse quality measures for use in MOC programs and more broadly by physicians, hospitals, nursing homes, and other healthcare providers. And through the Best Practices Institute announced by Hillary earlier this year, disseminate the highest quality, most effective protocols and treatments to ensure they are used everywhere. This proposal will help hold healthcare providers to the highest standards and ensure they have the best information to inform their work with patients.
3. Emphasize Quality in Health Care Workforce, with Focus on Nurses: Provide federal funding to address nursing and nurse faculty shortages and nurse retention issues by establishing innovative training and mentoring programs. A severe nursing and nurse faculty shortage has led to understaffing and nurse-to-patient ratios that jeopardize patient safety in hospitals and limit the availability of care outside of hospitals. America is not training enough nurses to meet our needs yet nursing schools turned away more than 32,000 qualified applicants in 2005. And we are not retaining those who do join the profession; currently 50 percent of new nurses leave their jobs within the first year. To address this problem, Senator Clinton will invest $300 million to:
* Address Nurse and Nurse Faculty Shortages: Provide short-term funding to schools of nursing to expand their capacity to train nursing students, as well as to recruit and retain faculty to teach the next generation of nurse professionals. Provide priority in funding to schools that collaborate with innovative worker training programs that recruit, train, and place nurses, and that provide career pathways across the spectrum of care settings.
* Prioritize the Retention of New Nurses: Provide funding for innovative nurse mentoring and nurse residency programs that have been shown to improve retention of new nurses.
* Increase Number of Direct Support Professionals: Make federal funding available to states, in partnership with local organizations, to develop credentialing programs for professionals like nursing assistants and personal care attendants, who are critical to ensuring that patient needs are met and that nurses are available to do the core functions of their jobs. As a condition of receipt of grants states must collaborate with state universities and community colleges to allow credentialing programs to count as college credit.
*
* Address Diversity and Cultural Competency in the Healthcare Workforce: Provide opportunities and incentives to encourage greater diversity in our health care workforce through recruitment initiatives, scholarships and loan-forgiveness programs.
* Link Nursing Education and Quality: Provide federal funding for the implementation of initiatives in nursing education programs to enhance and integrate quality measurement and patient safety efforts.

header

4. Empower Patients with Information on Provider Performance: Informed consumers make decisions that promote the right kind of competition and higher quality and reflect their underlying values and preferences. However, very limited information is available to help patients understand how to choose the best providers, what treatment options are available, what works, and how to stay healthy. Hillary would expand and improve information available to patients by making data and decision-making tools that give consumers information about their local providers readily available and understandable. Patient-centered care should be designed to improve patient decision making as well as the quality of their health care; it should not shift health care costs onto patients. At the Dartmouth Hitchcock Medical Center, the Center for Shared Decision Making helps breast cancer patients understand their options and make informed decisions about their treatment. The program gets high marks from patients - 98 percent reporting that they understood their treatment choices and 96 percent reporting they understood which treatment risks and benefits mattered most to them as they made their decision. Senator Clinton will:
* Develop a Patient-Friendly Quality Database: Patients want to know more about their providers and should know what their track record is. Hillary would invest $50 million in federal funding to improve and expand a web-based tool, such as Medicare Compare, to make provider and other information more usable, accurate, and consumer-friendly. This will assist patients in choosing physicians, hospitals, and permit meaningful comparisons across various health care delivery systems for patients, providers and purchasers.
* Develop Patient-Friendly Decision Aids to Promote Informed Patient Choice: Provide $25 million in federal funding to encourage the development of new programs like the successful model at the Dartmouth Center for Shared Decision Making to ensure that patients have access to up-to-date information and tools to help them understand their treatment options and make decisions that reflect their values.
5. Reduce Health Care Disparities: Racial and ethnic disparities are pervasive throughout our entire health care system. In 2003, the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ) found "that racial, ethnic and socioeconomic disparities are national problems that affect health care at all points in the process, at all sites of care, and for all medical conditions - in fact, disparities are pervasive in our health care system." Minorities are more likely to be diagnosed with late-stage breast cancer and colorectal cancer compared to whites, and Hispanics hospitalized for acute myocardial infarction are less likely to receive optimal care. Infant mortality rates among African American populations are more than twice as high as those for whites. According to the annual National Healthcare Disparities Report, released by the AHRQ, blacks and Hispanics received poorer quality care than whites on more than 70 percent of the measures. To address these problems, Senator Clinton will:
* Reduce Racial and Ethnic Disparities as Part of the National Quality Agenda: Require the development and testing of quality measures for use by doctors, hospitals, nursing homes and other providers targeted at racial and ethnic disparities in health care.
* Require More Accurate Data Collection: Direct the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) to develop a uniform reporting format for the collection of quality information on race and ethnicity, so that we can know the full extent of the problem and measure our progress in addressing it.
* Improve Cultural Competency in Clinical Care: Provide $50 million in federal funding for the development of culturally and linguistically competent clinical care programs, to ensure that our healthcare providers can communicate with their patients and have training and skills to fully understand and respect cultural differences in the patients they serve.
* Prioritize the Development of Medical Homes Designed to Improve Quality for Racial and Ethnic Minorities: Provide enhanced payments to healthcare providers who use coordinated care or medical home models and the practice of evidence-based medicine, designed to ensure that race and ethnicity are not a factor in the quality of care received.

header

6. Incentivize Quality Through Increased Federal Payments: Hillary proposes providing higher payments to healthcare providers that use coordinated care delivered by teams of health professionals to treat the whole patient instead of the patients’ individual illnesses. Most federal payments to health care providers do not differentially reward high quality providers. Our current system of reimbursement creates barriers to collaboration among organizations and among health care professionals, leading to fragmentation in the health care system. Doing what’s best for patients shouldn’t be bad for business. To overcome these barriers, Senator Clinton will:
* Financially Reward Excellence in Care: Physicians demonstrating their commitment to quality care through participation in certified Maintenance of Certification programs, and over time through improved patient outcomes, will be recognized as providers of high quality care and will receive higher reimbursement in federal programs, such as Medicare and the Federal Employee Health Benefit Program. Hillary proposes that our federal reimbursement system rewards care based on how effective it is. For example, the Marshfield Clinic, in Wisconsin, where doctors were paid based on the quality of care they provided for common diseases like diabetes and heart disease. They could earn up to 80% of the Medicare savings that resulted from their good treatment. Preliminary results revealed a 50% increase in electronically documented foot exams for diabetics, a 29% decrease in hospitalizations, and a savings of over $270,000 per 100 patient years.
* Develop New Reimbursement Models to Encourage Innovative Care Delivery Systems that Reward Quality -- Not Assembly-Line Care. To address system-wide fragmentation, increased reimbursement will be provided to models of care that treat patients as whole individuals instead of treating each of their illnesses separately. Such approaches will eliminate piecemeal medicine, where multiple doctors and nurses treat conditions like diabetes or cancer without communicating and undermining care as a consequence. Care models that use teams of providers - physicians, nurses, pharmacists, nutritionists, social workers, and other allied health professionals -- that meet consensus-based quality measures will be recognized. They deliver health care that is better coordinated to ensure that every patient gets the appropriate care in the way they need it and at the time they need it, instead of being left to navigate the complex health care system alone.
7. Prohibit Payment of "Never Events" in FEHBP and all Federal Programs: The Bush Administration’s recent decision to refuse Medicare payments for preventable infections, injuries and errors--so-called "never events"--sustained during hospital stays is a positive step. Hillary will insist that any insurance company wishing to provide coverage through the Federal Employee Healthcare Benefits Program also refuses to cover these costs. This proposal will incentivize good care with smart reimbursement policies

header

Institute a New "Paperless" Health Information Technology System: Modernizing our health care system through the use of information technology will empower doctors and other healthcare providers to communicate electronically and will reduce waste and redundancy while improving safety and quality by reducing medical errors. Overall, the RAND Corporation estimates net savings to be $77 billion per year. An up-front and phased-out $3 billion a year investment fund would be provided to help hospitals and doctor’s offices adopt and implement HIT. The proposal will give doctors financial incentives to adopt health IT and facilitate adoption of a system where high quality care and better patient outcomes can be rewarded.

Transform Care of Today’s Chronically Ill Population to Improve Outcomes: The largest driver of health care costs in the nation is related to the small numbers of Americans who have multiple chronic diseases. These diseases, such as cardiovascular disease and diabetes, account for 75 percent of our total national health expenditures and are the leading causes of death in the U.S. A recent RAND study projected nearly $30 billion in national health expenditure savings per year after implementing disease and lifestyle management programs. Combined with prevention and health information technology, with full participation, the U.S. health system could save $147 billion alone for better care of this vulnerable population. Senator Clinton will ensure higher quality and better coordination of care by using state-of-the-art chronic care coordination models within federally-funded programs to provide care for Americans afflicted with these costly, multi-faceted illnesses. She’ll provide incentives to participate in these chronic care management programs.

Create an Independent "Best Practices" Institute and Invest in Research for New Treatments: Patients, providers, and payers would benefit from getting better information on what works in health care and how treatments compare to one another. Researchers at Dartmouth have found that more care is not better care, and that inefficient care may do more harm than good. Therefore she will create a new Best Practices Institute, which would be funded by both the private and public sectors, since its results will benefit all payers. Research will compare the effectiveness of alternative treatments such as pharmaceuticals, devices, and surgeries. For example, information supplied by organizations such as the Drug Effectiveness Review Project (DERP) has been used in North Carolina to educate providers and improve quality of care, saving the state an estimated $80 million in 2003. This research will facilitate the development of quality and outcomes measures for use by hospitals, physicians, nursing homes, and other healthcare providers.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
51. I had to take some time to read it all. Thank you! I have a question / comment
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 05:59 PM by Political Heretic
(First of all, just set aside my candidate affiliation for a second. Like I said, health care hasn't been one of my major personal issues this election (which I know puts me out of step with America this year, which is one of the reasons why I'm asking questions.)

So...there were some things in there that I really, really like - such as incentives for rewarding higher quality physician care, more transparent information on health care providers performance, treating patients holistically rather than illness by illness, etc.

My question / comment is: Hillary's ideas seem good, but they seem to be aimed at incentivized, voluntary actions. One of the things I valued about Edwards plan (I don't know if he could have gotten this through congress or not) was that he had some genuine regulation proposals for the health care industry. He was going to require that providers off full medical coverage - physical, dental, vision, mental illness. He was going to attack the problem of HMOs overruling doctors in patient care decisions and refusing to pay for services (though right now I don't remember the details.) Dont you worry that health care won't really be fixed without provided some additional rules by which insurance companies must play?

And incidentally, would public health care include dental, vision, mental wellness components?

I have to read Obama's again. I know that I liked some of it, however I've never had a problem with Clintons mandates, because she has them for the same reason that Edward had them, and I agree with the logic. I DO THINK it would be a hard sell in the general though. :(

Cheers
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. Her plan offers a choice between govt (Medicare) and private insurance
Govt insurance is inherently less expensive than private insurance, which will have to compete at lower cost.

Are you simply ignorant of Clinton's plan or misrepresenting the facts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
60. NO IT DOES NOT SAY YOU GET MEDICARE -- THAT's NOT WHAT IT SAYS.
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 10:53 PM by antigop
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/healthcare/

>>
or you can opt into a public plan option like Medicare.
>>

A PUBLIC PLAN OPTION *LIKE* MEDICARE.

And Medicare has Medicare Advantage HMOS -- what will the "public plan option" have?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. For the primary election, Obama has taken in $2.7M whiel Hillary has taken in $3.7M from Health
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Clintons are all about bilking money from everything they do...
Her new plan may look different, but I'm sure she still stands to inherit a windfall from taxpayers.

From Progressive Review:

HRC'S 1994 HEALTH CARE PLAN, according to one account, included fines of up to $5,000 for refusing to join the government-mandated health plan, $5,000 for failing to pay premiums on time, 15 years to doctors who received "anything of value" in exchange for helping patients short-circuit the bureaucracy, $10,000 a day for faulty physician paperwork, $50,000 for unauthorized patient treatment, and $100,000 a day for drug companies that messed up federal filings.

http://prorev.com/hillary.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. july 2006---I knew this was old stuff.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. But its still true, now even more so

back in July 2006, Hillary was #2. She is now at #1.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. SO what!--BO is about a million behind yet he lies and says he is an outsider.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. The difference is
1) Healthcare is supposed to be Hillary's greatest strength

2) Hillary has caved into the for-profit health industry's every demand. Obama hasn't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
50. The difference is Hillary does not shy away-But BO pretends he is not a corporist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
11. Forced for-profit health insurance.
What did you expect? Insurance companies love that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Disappointing that you too would buy into that bullshit
The American Health Choices Plan preserves existing health insurance and offers new choices to those
with insurance and to the 47 million people in the United States without insurance. It ensures
portability so that Americans do not lose coverage when they change or lose their jobs. Americans will
have three options:

1) Keep Current Health Care Coverage: Americans who are satisfied with the coverage they
have today can keep it. Nothing would interfere with their insurance or their relationship
with their health care provider. The only significant change they will see will be lower costs
and higher quality health care as the modernization initiatives to improve value in our
health care system take effect and as the achievement of seamless coverage reduces the
hidden tax on premiums that comes from current cost-shifting.

2) A Choice of Health Plan Options: Businesses, employees, and the uninsured will have the
option of buying group insurance through a new Health Choices Menu. This Menu will
give all Americans the same set of insurance options that their Member of Congress has.
Without creating new bureaucracy, the Menu will be part of the Federal Employee Health
Benefit Program (FEHBP), which includes numerous, high-quality private health insurance
options. The Health Choices Menu will have the purchasing power of millions of
Americans in securing high-quality and affordable insurance. States will also have the
option of banding together to offer the same type of choices in a region of the country if
they wish. The benefits will be as good as those offered to Members of Congress. Such
coverage includes mental health parity, and many plans offer dental coverage. In addition,
as a condition of doing business with the federal government, insurers must cover highpriority
preventive services that experts agree are proven and effective. This focus on
prevention will improve health and lower costs in the long run.

3) A Choice of a Public Plan Option: In addition to the array of private insurance choices
offered, the Health Choices Menu will also provide Americans with a choice of a public plan
option, which could be modeled on the traditional Medicare program, but would cover the
same benefits as guaranteed in private plan options in the Health Choices Menu without
creating a new bureaucracy. The alternative will compete on a level playing field with
traditional private insurance plans. It will provide a more affordable option, in part through
greater administrative savings. It will not be funded through the Medicare trust fund.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Yes there are choices. But I foresee the choices that might be
"affordable" one day gone the next as incomes fail to keep up with increased costs. You know that insurance costs will grow and grow just like mandated car insurance has.

Why is it that we never hear single payer healthcare anymore?

This, like immigration reform will never get anywhere. imho
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ContinentalOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. Choice #3 there should be the entire plan.
Why doesn't she offer any specifics on that third choice? To truly lower costs by increasing the pool, wouldn't it make the most sense to combine all of these together?

To be fair, Obama doesn't offer any specifics on the public plan either but at least his plan doesn't require people to buy in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. I prefer single payer so I agree that #3 shoudl be the plan.
Kucinich had the best plan with Hillary and Edwards the next best plans.

Here's what she seeks to control costs

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcare/

I did not find anything much more detailed about her public health plan option.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
53. And it still won't work: auto insurance is mandated but 15 % of drivers don't get it.
It's so easy. Auto insurance is required to license your car, but the state never checks to see if you've really gotten it. The number I read was 15% of autos on American highways are uninsured. And how would Clinton enforce this mandate. It's easy enough when someone is employed and the govt. can take the premium out of the paycheck. But what about all the retired, the unemployed and the self employed?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. What a shock that they give money to the one they think who will be making the changes
No news here one bit. They want to have a seat at the table when the changes are made. Smart business on their part.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. This is news
and voters should be aware of it before they decide.
Obama needs to start making it an issue.


This is the kind of change we don't want. It's change for the worse, not better.

Mandated health insurance is good for no one but the insurance companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jzodda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
48. Mandated health insurance could be fine...Its all in the details
I would want to read the fine print first. If all it does is benefit HMO's then its terrible. It it does away with the HMO's then its a great idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
itcfish Donating Member (805 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. Hillary Gets Money From
Osama bin Ladin too. You forgot to mention that. LOL OMG. This is getting worse by the minute.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
30. Oh! Zing! Apparently there's no truth that you can't counter with snark.
Get your shit together and read some news.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maribelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
21. Nurses, Radiological Technologists, Surgical Technologists, Emergence Medical Technicians ...
Paramedics, Dietitians, Nutritionists, Pharmacists, Occupational Therapists, Physical Therapists, Recreation Therapists, Respiratory Therapists, Speech-language Pathologists, Audiologists, Physicians, Dentists, Chiropractors, Optometrists, Veterinarians, Health Diagnosing Assistants, Physician Assistants, Clinical Laboratory Technologists, EEG and EKG Technologists, Nuclear Medicine Technologists...

2.9 Million Nurses Endorse Hillary




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Yes. Hillary got the American Nurse's Assoc Endorsement. Enough said.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Nurses are part of the corrupt system

Insurance companies basically write their paycheck (indirectly), so naturally
many nurses (not all) will support the insurance companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Medical professionals are very uninformed politically and easy for HRC to play.
I am always sending "xeroxed" copies of medical news, research news, etc. to my doctors' and dentist's offices. Things like European/Brit research that's not funded by Big Pharma; or scandals that FDA has been covering for, etc. It's always news to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
25. Senator Jim Inhofe (R-OK) is the #1 RECIPIENT of Oil Money
Only because he can help change the system from within and effect the outcome to
the questions of Global warming and climate change.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. "HRC is now the top recipient of healthcare industry money"
Color me surprised. :sarcasm:

K&R
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Obama has taken in $2.7M whiel Hillary has taken in $3.7M from Health
Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject For the primary election, Obama has taken in $2.7M whiel Hillary has taken in $3.7M from Health
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4931360#4931603
4931603, For the primary election, Obama has taken in $2.7M whiel Hillary has taken in $3.7M from Health
Posted by rinsd on Thu Mar-06-08 03:19 PM

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.asp?Ind=H&cycle=2008
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. The difference is,

1) Healthcare is supposed to be Hillary's greatest strength

2) Hillary has caved into the for-profit health industry's every demand, Obama hasn't
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NorthernSpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. no wonder she wants to garnish our wages...
Look where it ends up!


:eyes:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Independent-Voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
38. Veruca's quite the populist these days, if you're an insurance co fatcat
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
39. Health care industry not just health insurance industry
It also includes health care providers and others who would like to see health care reform enacted including universal access to affordable care for all.

Has it ever occurred to the "immortal" Obama supporters who rebel at the idea of universal health care that hospitals and health care professionals are worried because they can no longer cover the cost of providing "charity" care to hundreds of thousands of uninsured Americans?

Do you think when an uninsured person gets sick or injured that a magic fairy princess appears and pays for the hospital's cost of treating those people?

There are many benevolent interested parties in the health care industry, including hospitals, doctors, nurses and others who want health care reform and prefer Clinton's plan to Obama's.

Do yourself a favor and stop spreading this garbage. It only shows how cruel and ignorant Obama and his supporters are if they are willing to kill any chance of real reform to score a few political points.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
55. What no one can afford is health care costs increasing at 3 times the rate of inflation.
And Obama supporters are not against "universal health care". We want to cut the greedy Big Insurance companies out as the middle men.

You are so really terrific at mindlessly distorting Obama's positions. Did ya go to school for that?

As a number of impartial analysts have observed, Obama's and Clinton's health care proposals are so similar, that voters would be better off to look for some other issue to help them choose between the two.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
42. Certian People want to keep the profit in the Health Care Industry
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 05:01 PM by Botany
The HMOs, insurance companies, and drug makers have
made fortunes off suffering and want to keep it that way.

Per person America spends double what any other western
country spends on health care ... that includes people who
are not covered too.

The money to Hillary is buying access to help keep the
status quo going.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
52. She & Rick Santorum - so perfect together. This will not play well in Pennsylvania
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
56. No one to my knowledge has gotten specific about costs of
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 10:44 PM by nightrain
their plans. Here's the deal for me... my car insurance costs me about $400 twice/year. I can afford that. Now, even though I am a former BS Nurse, and currently a self-employed mental health care provider, I cannot afford several thousands/year for a high deductible health plan. HOW THE H does Clinton expect most of us to fork over several thousands, which we currently cannot afford?? I'm assuming the costs for these plans will be in the thousands as it's extremely rare to find a decent plan for less than $300/month! That's f-ing crazy!!!!!!

Single-payor government paid health care service is the only reasonable answer. Look... we pay for fire/police/water/libraries etc etc via taxes of some sort----- health care could be the same. I don't see a problem... Oh, it wouldn't be profit-making......
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mdinusa Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
57. This is typical; I am not really surprised
thanks for the info
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-06-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
58. Michael Moore skewered her on this in SICKO
Edited on Thu Mar-06-08 10:44 PM by Dems Will Win
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. I've Often Wondered Why That is Never Discussed. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC