Hillary people, there are two very basic things that Hillary has not convinced me of.

[Skidmore]

1) That she does have a vision for this century and is not just seeking to ram through all the old agenda that wasn't accomplished during her husband's administration. I think we need to be forward looking and I'm not invested in repeating the 1990s with all of its divisive battles.

2) I am not convinced that she really is interested in people at the grassroots level beyond using them as material for slogans and electioneering.

Before you get all nasty on me, know that I would consider her on a unity ticket with Obama, but I need someone to convince me that we are not going to be trapped in a Groundhog's Day version of the 1990s with Bill in our faces all of the time. That she can stand on her own without using her husband's legacy as her resume.

[papau]

1. interesting in that is exactly my view of Obama - the cut corporate tax and reduce regulation guy

[Skidmore]

3. Perhaps that suggest that the people need to set the agenda

and the politicians need to work on accomplishing it. Eh?

[Bluerthanblue]

2. I stand right here with you Skidmore-

with the same concern.

:hug:


peace~

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

4. I cannot address the specific concerns, but she is way to the left of Bill

The was called a communist throughout the 1990s, so she has bent way over backward to appear moderate to craft a viable presidential image.

But she really is more liberal than Bill, from everything I know of them.

Her hawkishness is part and parcel of the challenges of trying to be a plausible female candidate, but she's a McGovern voter. (And organizer)

(And yes, Obama has much of the same identity baggage. He is also probably more left than he appears, because a black candidate needs to be a comforting moderate.)

[grasswire]

5. you mean Bill's legacy of peace and prosperity?

Is that the one?

The world cares nothing for America's dalliance into Victorian prudery over Bill Clinton. Whether or not Bill is "in our faces" has more to do with the VRWC and cocomitant media complicity than with any fault of Hillary's. Divisive battles of the 1990s were strategic RNC acts of political terrorism and an end run on the Constitution. Clinton didn't cause them.

[jgraz]

6. No, Bill's legacy of destroying the local party structure and giving us 12 years of a GOP Congress

Not to mention GOP governors, legislatures, judges, mayors, local leaders, etc etc etc. You want party building? Bubba don't play dat.

[Skidmore]

7. Bill also didn't fight them beyond what it took to save his political

hide, and he was in that position because of his own lack of judgement. He freaking gave them the ammunition. I don't consider him to be this great pure intellect, but a very flawed and self-centered individual whose proclivities greatly exacerbated social and civil problems.

[grasswire]

9. have you read Joe Conason's book?

Do you remember the title?

Yes, he did give them some ammo with Lewinsky. But the campaign to destroy Bill Clinton began many years before Monica.

[me b zola]

8. I am convinced that HRC plans to continue to spit on the grassroots

HRC is leading the DLC's 'American Dream Initiative' which includes the republican plan--yes, the very same plan--to privatize social security.

http://www.ppionline.org/ndol/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=85&subid=108&contentid=253475

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253993&kaid=86&subid=194


The American public--both Democratic & republican--soundly rejected this when bush* was running around trying to shove this plan down our throats.

I am pleading with the Obama campaign to use this information to defeat the rw/corporate ideology both within our party and without.

[mculator]

10. She is an outspoken fighter for Children, more so than Barack.

And Children can't vote.

[Skidmore]

11. Oh, the children, the children...

Well the children don't fare well period when their parents can't find decent paying jobs or go to them because they have health problems which probably could have been avoided by good preventive care. The children don't fare well when their parents are trapped in jobs that demand all of their waking hours in exchange for a wage that's well under a living wage and nickels and dimes them for sick time or personal time. The children don't fare well when they are born into families where the parents have not had access to a good education or trade.

Children depend on their parents to provide and this is no longer a first generation problem, but we are now into second and third generations who can't see their way clear. How about addressing poverty and the havoc visited by NAFTA and these obscene trade agreements? How about addressing deregulation and the protection of white collar criminals? Children. I have children and grandchildren. My children are educated and are still struggling. My son in law continually is on a layoff list at his company and he sweats out every year end analysis of his department. Children do not exist separately for their parentla units. Let us get real about this. If Hillary wants to be a fighter, she should not only work to protect children but to address the needs that hurt families. This is what Barack has spoken to and has worked for. Get beyond the slogans and cliches and start working on making life better for everyone.

[mculator]

12. The Irony hurts.

And I ruined my 420 post count to tell you it.