What exactly is the logic of nominating the one person Republicans hate more than McCain?

[mattclearing]

Just wondering.

[tekisui]

1. Don't worry, it won't happen.

[LizW]

2. Because we're Democrats, not Republicans. n/t

[William769]

4. A fact lost on the brainwashed.

[mattclearing]

9. That's not a very nice thing to say. n/t

[William769]

15. Most of the time the truth hurts, live with it.

[mattclearing]

47. What do you know about the truth?

Truth is Hillary can't even get more delegates than Barack Obama with proportional representation...how do you think she'll beat John McCain in the winner-take-all electoral college?

[mattclearing]

The point is that it's a missed opportunity.

Not only do we forfeit the ability to peel away votes of people who hate McCain, but we ensure robust Republican turnout in a year where they should all be home drinking. WTF?

[Vinca]

3. She really is their only chance of winning. The Republicans might

not be crazy about McCain, but they despise the Clintons and will unify like never before to keep them out of the White House.

[susankh4]

16. Really....

you need to stop listening to Rush.

[Vinca]

28. I don't listen to Rush, but you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind

not to have heard this. Worse yet - it will bring the Republicans who might have stayed home out of McCain dislike back to the polls to elect more Republicans to the House and Senate. We could be really screwed.

[susankh4]

39. I've heard it allright

and I think it's pure bullsh**.

More anti-Clinton manipulation. Spin, spin, spin.

And Dems should have more sense than to believe it.

[Vinca]

41. If she's the nominee, I hope you're right. nt

[susankh4]

45. I will be

in part because she will choose Barack as her VP.

It is the unifying ticket that will drive us home.... to Pennsylvania Ave.

[seabeyond]

51. this is what i think. finally had repug exhausted with their party and totally dispirited

what are we doing.... totally giving them a reason to live

energize them

[Ian David]

5. OMG! We nominated Michael Moore!?! n/t

[Clintonista2]

6. What's the logic of basing our nomination on who Republicans like?

[mattclearing]

10. I asked you first. n/t

[Clintonista2]

13. Because Republicans will vote Republican, regardless of which dem they hate more.

Therefore, we shouldn't let them choose our candidate for us. Now you can answer my question.

[mattclearing]

22. Because they would have stayed home for anyone not named Clinton. n/t

[Clintonista2]

24. Proof? Thanks.

[mmonk]

32. Cheering your candidate's victory should give you a hint.

[susankh4]

42. NOT!

The hate wing radio talking heads will make sure they hate Obama even worse than Hillary.

Don't believe me? Look at what Bill Cunningham did to Barack in Ohio. That'll spread like wildfire. And, actually it will be more interesting than a bunch of Clinton bashing that we've all heard already.

[mattclearing]

48. Sweet. Something to look forward to. n/t

[bowens43]

21. The logic is that Democrats can not elect a president

without support of non-democrats. That's fact. While we need not worry about who republicans like , we certainly do need to worry about who independents like and they overwhelmingly prefer McCain to Hillary.

[Clintonista2]

30. But the OP didn't say "independents", he said "republicans"

[mattclearing]

34. I meant to imply that they should be staying home.

Between hating their nominee and knowing they just put the country through 8 years of hell and all.

And we go and waste that fantastic advantage by giving them their most feared enemy on a platter as a GOTV tool.

[Clintonista2]

35. Where's the proof that they will stay home?

Nobody knows what will happen between the convention and the election.

[mattclearing]

38. My crystal ball is broken.

I can only go on Politics 101. Demoralised parties with candidates they are unenthusiastic about have low turnout. Unless the opponent is considered to be the antichrist.

[VolcanoJen]

7. I still don't think it'll happen, tasteblind.

I'm still waking up, but doesn't he still have a handy delegate lead?

[mattclearing]

12. I don't either.

But I want to hear exactly what the evil genius plan is that Hillary somehow becomes electable in the unlikely event that she drives Obama's negatives above her own and gets the superdelegates to call it for her.

[mmonk]

8. None at all. The cheer when MSNBC called Ohio for Clinton

during Huckabee's concession speech said it all.

[mattclearing]

14. Ouch. n/t

[TheZug]

11. Because she deserves it, she's owed it.

How dare some whippersnapper black guy come and take it from her!?!?

Time to fight, Barack!

[elehhhhna]

17. Yep, she thinks its' her turn. The Pickles in 2016.

[mattclearing]

31. What, then Chelsea? n/t

[bowens43]

18. The republicans have been pushing hillary as 'inevitable' for years

because they know she will be easily defeated by anyone they nominate. Hillary supporters seem to forget that Democrats alone can not elect a president. Independents will decide this election and they despise Hillary. They will support McCain. If you put Hillary and McCain on the stage together, McCain looks and sounds like a wise elderly statesman, Hillary looks and sounds like an angry , spiteful , revengeful shrew.

I really don't get either. There is no possible way that Hillary will beat McCain and the ground swelll of republican voters that will come about because hillary is the nominee will very likely shift control of the senate back to the republicans.

[THUNDER HANDS]

19. there is no logic, just blind ego and hero worship

[Recursion]

20. A large portion of the party feels the need to piss on Republicans who hate her

That really seems to be a lot of it.

[bowens43]

23. and that will hand them not only the preesidenncy

but probably the senate and possibly the house.

A hillary nomination will destroy the party and the country.

[mattclearing]

27. She's not as likable as McCain, though.

I don't like him, but I know better. Where she struggles to seem genuine, he comes off as earnest.

The idea that Dems are going to ram Hillary down the country's throat just because she's not Bush is fanciful at best, and that went out the window when the Republicans nominated the one crossover candidate they had.

[JVS]

37. Yup. They think it will be some kind of vindication for everything that has happened since 1998

[mattclearing]

57. But the likely outcome is it will extend everything since 1998 even further.

With a setup that was nearly impossible to fuck up.

We have to pray that people are able to see that McCain is More Bush-Lite than Hillary.

[Recursion]

70. Her IWR vote prevents that

We have to pray that people are able to see that McCain is More Bush-Lite than Hillary.

I agree that people should see that, and that he is more like Bush than Hillary is.

But she has a bloody, rotting albatross around her neck in the form of her IWR vote.

She said in the debate she "wishes she could take it back" or something like that. Game over. McCain will destroy her on that alone.

[Medusa]

25. Take a look at the demos on her supporters from yesterday

undereducated, Republicans, the OLD. Get it?

[DemGa]

26. It's clear Obama ran on "Hillary hate"-----disgusting nonsense

[mattclearing]

29. ???

[misslauren66]

49. Please explain - it's clear as mud to me

I've never heard Obama allude to any hate of Hillary, even if many of his supporters can't stand her. For a while, I've suspected that Obama simply put the question to Hillary's "inevitable" candidacy by running a strong campaign - something that should happen in a well contested election! - and that his viability allowed those Dems who weren't enthusiastic about Hillary to drop their thin support and get behind another candidate. I think it says a lot that so many voters were willing to do so, though after last night we haven't yet seen the end of that story.

[DemGa]

55. ..........

Obama has run on Hillary's so called "negatives" from the start, i.e., Hillary is "polarizing and divisive" and would "unite the opposition."

Obama has consistently sought to profit from the right-wing attacks of the nineties directed at Clinton -- pure treachery.

[mattclearing]

58. He could have taken it a lot farther.

He's been pretty restrained, considering.

[DemGa]

59. Considering what?

Yes, he did have to be somewhat careful using right-wing attacks against Hillary. But seriously, considering what?

[mattclearing]

60. Considering that Hillary has proven to be less concerned with negative campaigning.

He has pulled a lot of punches, kept his lines mostly to, "divisive politics of the past," which is a knock on the Republicans as much as it is on her. He hasn't specifically mentioned any of the right-wing attacks on her, hasn't pointed out that she failed to bring health care once before, hasn't pointed out that she is padding her resume with Bill's presidency, for starters.

[mattclearing]

56. Smart comment, and Welcome to DU!

It really does say something that a Democratic heavyweight like Hillary Clinton faces elimination in the delegate count against someone no one knew about four years ago.

[Malikshah]

33. Just wondering. Why do folks not see that these kind of posts

Aid McCain and his goon squad?

[mattclearing]

43. No they don't.

I'm pointing out the obvious. If people realize that Hillary is unelectable, maybe they'll vote for someone with a chance. How does that help McCain?

[Malikshah]

61. Obvious to you. BTW-- there's a bit of a Kool Aid stain

Might want to check into that.

Your statement is lacking any sense of awareness outside of your own understanding of the political arena.

Time to think outside the box and stop helping the GOP

[mattclearing]

62. herh-herh-herh...a kool-aid joke on DU!

And I don't respect people whose idea of unconventional thinking involves cliched catch-phrases.

You haven't demonstrated any understanding of anything.

[Malikshah]

66. You know, the first step to recovery is to admit there is a problem.

Kool Aid is not the solution.

I understand quite well that both candidate's minions (and other plants) are doing everything in their power to destroy chances of a Democratic victory in November.

Both candidates need to slap these folks down.

What I *don't* understand is how clueless these two candidates' minions are. They cannot see beyond their own Rovian gamesmanship.

This isn't a game-- stop acting like children when your candidate is down.

[mattclearing]

67. My candidate is up.

And save the condescension and the platitudes. You have managed to say a lot without saying anything at all.

The fact is that this is a pretty even match between the two wings of the party that have wanted to have it out for a long time now. It would have happened last time but Dean was a flawed candidate, and Kerry wasn't exactly a DLC clown.

But Obama/Clinton is a perfect storm...you have the establishment candidate with mostly moderate views and a lack of respect for the netroots who voted for the Iraq War and the youth-oriented phenom who has an unprecedented small donor base and packs arenas to hear oratory the likes of which hasn't been heard in decades on the political stage.

So you get Clinton loyalists who have a winning brand but a pretty weak claim to reform versus the left-wing that sees an opportunity to get an actual progressive into the White House and are tired of settling for less than the Republicans settle for.

It really says a lot about Obama that he is successfully campaigning against Hillary, Bill, Chesea, and their surrogates. By all accounts he's outnumbered, and can't cover nearly as much ground with as much star power. That he is positioned to win the nomination against the second favorite democratic family is amazing.

It's not the supporters' fault that it's getting ugly...people are genuinely pissed off, and most of it goes way back. We're pissed off about the Dean scream, the Florida recount, the swiftboating, fucking Lieberman, the election fraud and the failure of the party establishment to address it openly, and we want someone who is less accommodating to flawed Republican arguments. We think we've found our guy.

The Clinton people are pissed off because Bill got a raw deal, was stuck with a pretty uneventful period and a shit Congress, was shamed over some personal bullshit that shouldn't even have been made public, and now they see a chance to re-write history and make the Clintons into what we always hoped they would be, but couldn't quite become.

Meanwhile everyone is pissed off about Bush, who has screwed the whole world over countless times in the past seven years.

The worst part is that there are enough of us on each side to prolong this for the duration. Let's hope it stays clean from here on out for the sake of being potential running mates, that way they get all the free publicity in the world while McCain gets even older until Convention season.

[Malikshah]

71. Beyond reading into everything about the Clintons...

This line was the kicker...

"opportunity to get an actual progressive "

See, there, you lost me.

Neither Clinton nor Obama are progressive.

Focus on keeping McCain out and lose the rose-colored glasses about either of the front running candidates.

[mattclearing]

72. Obama is a grassroots community organizer at heart, like Wellstone.

He has made some concessions in terms of his plans and his positions in order to be acceptable to business and media, but make no mistake, he's as progressive as they come.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. What Are You Basing This On?

Grand Pa Pa McCain does better among Democrats than Obama does among Republicans...

[mattclearing]

40. Doesn't matter. Hillary Clinton is Republican GOTV crack.

They should be home, bitching about how McCain and Obama are both assholes. Now they'll line up in droves.

[Mezzo]

44. That's why Obama should step aside.

I know so many republicans who just. will. not. vote. for. him. if he is the nominee.

[NashVegas]

46. Referendum

I can't answer for everyone else, but I would dearly love to see a direct, democratic (small d) referendum on Hillary versus the VRWC, once and for all.

I'm sick of the Republicans who think they somehow got one over on the American public and would like it settled for once and for all whether or not they actually did, in a way that cannot be denied.

[mattclearing]

53. But what if you lose? n/t

[NashVegas]

64. You Deal With It

No goats, no glory.

[Justitia]

74. Did you really mean "goats"? LOL -eom

[JNelson6563]

50. Exactly

Bat shit crazy, ain't it?

[moondust]

52. She can't out-slime the professional slimers.

What does that leave?

[mattclearing]

54. Hope? n/t

[ecstatic]

63. With Hillary as nominee, we lose a lot of first timers, young people,

and African Americans. Those are people we will need for the GE. There's no way Hillary can win at this point. She's burned way too many bridges.

[mattclearing]

69. And all those states she wrote off as unimportant because she didn't win them.

What kind of idiotic strategy was that? Like, "You're so stupid, you won't remember I insulted you in 8 months."

[Bucky]

65. The exploding republican heads in November would be nice to see

altho I still think it's a hell of a risk.

[mattclearing]

68. It's possible Hill could win...McCain is crazy and he supports all the Bush policies.

But it's really risky, and she's not Bill on the stump.

[Justitia]

73. No logic, just the Clinton Legacy to think of, doncha know? The Dem Party means little. -eom