Hillary's smearing campaign worked. Result: president McCain

[thesubstanceofdreams]

Obama is obviously not doing so great in the polls now and his negatives are on the rise. Before the start of Hillary's viciously negative attacks, Obama was leading McCain in all polls; now polls are close.

Hillary supporters say, disingenuously, that it doesn't matter that she smears Obama because the repugs would to it later anyway. WRONG. First of all, you NEVER DO THE ENEMY'S WORK. Second, as a (formerly) respected politician and human being, especially among democratcs, Clinton's smears carry a lot more weight than an ad-hoc rethug hate group's would carry. Last, but not least, HILLARY WILL LOSE THE NOMINATION ANYWAY. She's doing better, but not nearly as good as she would need to have any chance of overcoming her deficit in pledged delegates. In the unlikely case she manages to win the nomination by breaking the rules (seating Florida, etc), a defeat in November is all but guaranteed.

So let's stop pretending otherwise: whether intentionally or not, Hillary is not helping herself, she is just helping her buddy McCain, and it's working.

[dkf]

1. If McCain wins, Hillary can run again in 2012.

Its her last chance to be President. She can't let Obama win.

[PretzelWarrior]

4. Obama will run again in that case

people will be so pissed at her she'll garner Kucinich-like numbers in 2012.

Enough with fairy land. Obama will win later today and win in November of this year.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Nice job Hill. Way to put party over self.

[closeupready]

41. Exactly.

n/t

[Traction311]

52. What is she, 60 now?

If Obama wins, she can run again in 2016. A lot could happen by then. Perhaps she'll run for governor if Elliot Spitzer doesn't run again?

[flor de jasmim]

2. Wonder if he's thinking of her as VP...

[Olney Blue]

31. Doubt it. He has enough troubles with his GOP base!

[MojoMojoMojo]

3. Obamas been using negative campaigning from the start

"Hillary was for the war " is negative.

[PretzelWarrior]

5. Hillary was for the war is TRUTH

sorry....get over it. Hillary had 4 years to recover from any political damage if she had voted against authorization to use force. She WANTED that war.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

7. First of all,

Hillary voted for the war. That is fact.
Second of all, there is a difference between drawing contrasts and attacking occasionally, but keeping a positive, respectful and uplifting point throughout the campaign (what Obama has been doing), and basing the whole campaign on fear and negativity (what Hillary has been doing in the last couple of weeks).

But let me repeat it. If the smears allowed Clinton to win, I would give her political points at least (although it would be a repuglican way of winning). But she'll lose anyway. She's not helping herself; she's helping McCain.

[Carolina]

36. exactly, HRC will not win the GE against McCain because

she is loathed by so many and with her cheap shot words yesterday, she just stupidly handed her own ass to McCain.

If, by hook or crook, she becomes the nominee, he can now use HER own words against HER by playing them in an ad with a voice over pointing out that:

A) he is older and logically has a longer lifetime of experience and
B) his experience is bona fide, not based on his spouse's job

What a fucking idiot she is. Ready on day?????????
Her kitchen sink crap is going to come right back at her.

[Carolina]

34. negative?! It's the fucking truth

She was always for the war and to say so is the truth that team Hillary can't handle!

[earthlover]

44. Hillary voting on the IWR was the negative thing. Reporting it is reporting it.

Apparently Hillary does not think it was a negative thing, she never apologized for it.

[Hepburn]

48. Hillary is and was for the war... that is the ABSOLUTE truth.

Deal with it, OK? She voted YES on the IWR and NO on the Levin Amendment. She is a war hawk in line with Monkey Boy and McLame.

If you liked Bush and love McCain, but cannot bring yourself to actually vote GOP, then Hillary is your girl!

[LeftCoast]

6. Yeah, yeah. Clinton evil, Obama a saint. Whatever.

:eyes:

[thesubstanceofdreams]

9. I didn't say that

My post is about politics. Politically, Hillary's campaign is a huge boost to McCain. If you disagree with my analysis let me know, otherwise the sarcasm is not really needed.

[LeftCoast]

16. No, your post is nothing but an attack on Clinton

"Hillary's smearing campaign"

"Hillary's viciously negative attacks"

"Hillary supporters say, disingenuously"

"Clinton's smears"

"HILLARY WILL LOSE THE NOMINATION ANYWAY"

"In the unlikely case she manages to win the nomination by breaking the rules"

"she is just helping her buddy McCain"

That's substantive all right!

[thesubstanceofdreams]

17. It's an attack on Clinton's political strategy

which right now consists of smears, vicious negative attacks, and trying to break the rules. Sadly.

[LeftCoast]

19. Only when you wear your Obama glasses

[thesubstanceofdreams]

21. So you're suggesting...

that Hillary is running a positive campaign? Lol.

[LeftCoast]

23. Please link where I said that

[thesubstanceofdreams]

24. I said she's running a smearing, negative, rules-be-damned campaign

You implied what I'm saying is wrong because I'm an Obama supporter. The opposite of negative is positive. This "show me where I textually said that" stuff is tiring. Usually the most relevant part of human communication is implied, not explicit. See Hillary's smearing of Obama on the muslim topic.

[LeftCoast]

25. That is binary thinking

In the real world things are not black and white, positive or negative.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

26. In the real world, no. In Hillaryworld, yes.

I haven't seen any positivity at all since the fake "I'm honored to be with Obama tonight".

[LeftCoast]

28. Uh oh...there are those Obama glasses again.

Seriously, I know you support him and all, but it doesn't do any good to view any campaign his or Clinton's from such a biased perspective. One, it underestimates your opponent and two, it overestimates the strengths of your candidate.

Nobody is perfect. Just a reminder.

[earthlover]

46. It is true that Obama is doing worse against McCain now...but he still is doing better than Hillary

That's what negative campaigning is doing. It isn't helping Hillary get better, it is tearing down the support of the opponent.

This is really sad because it is probably going to be a close election. We could very well lose in November. I know it is almost like a cult mantra that we cannot lose in November. But we can.

We certainly don't need to institute a circular firing squad. Hillary has done this, and has fired many shots.

I seriously think she is running for 2012 at this point. She is going to smear Obama and go down fighting. Not likely she will get the nomination, but she can do a lot of damage on the way down. Then after McCain wins, she positions herself for 2012, saying....if we didn't nominate that guy who just gave speeches, if I were the nominee, none of this would have happened, vote for me in 2012.....

She will be annointed once more the prohibitive front runner going into 2012....by the media and the establishment.

[Horse with no Name]

8. if obama loses

it's obama's fault.
I thought THIS was the party of personal responsibility.
Get a grip on yourself. Obama has baggage that many of his supporters have refused to hold his feet to the fire to answer to.
Now the republicans will force the issue.
It's obama's fault he didn't tell the truth when it mattered.
Oh and by the way?
John Edwards was beating mccain over BOTH Hillary and Obama.
Get used to the fact that the MSM punked us.
We have TWO candidates with high negatives and they are EACH responsible for their own shortcomings.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

12. Let me see if I got it right...

If Edwards loses, it's the MSM fault.
If Obama loses, it's 100% his own fault.

[Horse with no Name]

13. if Edwards had a FRACTION of the coverage either of these two have had

it might have been a different story.
But it is what it is...deny all you want.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

18. May be

The MSM plays a part. But saying that Edwards loss is due ONLY do the MSM and that Obama's eventual loss is ONLY due to his own failures is a bit too simplistic IMO.

[Horse with no Name]

20. I never said that. You did. In fact, I only mentioned that Edwards had a higher

win% over McCain...I said nothing about his leaving the race.
You are the one that intertwined that argument.

[thesubstanceofdreams]

22. You did mention the MSM in connection with Edwards losing

Twice

:hi:

[Skittles]

29. well let me third it

the MSM played THE BIGGEST ROLE in Edwards' loss

[TheDeathadder]

10. Hillary's campaign worked. Result: President Clinton

Man that's awesome...thank god!!

[thesubstanceofdreams]

14. False

She's trailing in pledged delegates badly. She will not win the nomination. She's doing a great job helping McCain win the GE though.

[TheDeathadder]

53. Exactly I agree with you

Clinton is going to the convention and then going on to become president.

[Carolina]

37. Wrong, she will lose in the GE against McCain because

she is loathed by so many and with her cheap shot words yesterday, she just stupidly handed her own ass to McCain.

If, by hook or crook, she becomes the nominee, he can now use HER own words against HER by playing them in an ad with a voice over pointing out that:

A) he is older and logically has a longer lifetime of experience and
B) his experience is bona fide, not based on his spouse's job

What a fucking idiot she is. Ready on day?????????
Her kitchen sink crap is going to come right back at her.

[TheDeathadder]

54. Exactly!!

I'm so glad we agree Clinton will become the next president.

man it's going to be an awesome 2009 with Clinton as President.

[Carolina]

56. you must have replied to wrong person because

we are in total disagreement.

I can't stand Clinton!

[dcindian]

11. Clinton would vote to murder hundreds of thousands

if it was politically expedient at the time. What would make you think she would run a campaign a democrat would be proud of? She is not in it to win any more she is in it to kill any chance the Democrats have of winning all in the name of self interest.

[AtomicKitten]

15. The sad part is that her dirty campaigning has become the wingnuts' cause celebre:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4866144

[Perry Logan]

32. Quick reminder: Only wingnuts and Obamites think Hillary's campaign was dirty.

[Carolina]

38. wrong team hillary is a most delusional group

HRC is loathed by so many (Dems, Indies, amd repukes) and with her cheap shot words yesterday, she just stupidly handed her own ass to McCain.

If, by hook or crook, she becomes the nominee, he can now use HER own words against HER by playing them in an ad with a voice over pointing out that:

A) he is older and logically has a longer lifetime of experience and
B) his experience is bona fide, not based on HIS SPOUSE'S JOB

What a fucking idiot she is. Ready on day?????????
Her kitchen sink crap is going to come right back at her.

[Perry Logan]

40. If Hillary runs, the Republicans can base their campaign solely on smears against her at DU.

[Carolina]

58. oh puhleeze, as if SHE hasn't given them

plenty of ammunition. In case you didn't notice, many threads are reactions to what Shrillary herself has put out there with her new kitchen sink campaign mode.

And if you bothered to read my post, she handed her own ass to McCain with HER words, not me.

And BTW she is running, so you mean 'if she wins' which will be by hook or CROOK!

[cooolandrew]

27. I go on voice chat paltalk general concensus America loves Obama. =)

The smear is going nowhere.

[Blarch]

33. She embraced Rove...

nuff said.

[styersc]

35. Politics is tough. Balls are required.

Stop your whining.

If Obama can't overcome a day or two of unflattering press he is toast anyway.

[Carolina]

39. Hillary 's the whiner

why do I always get the first question

but I'm ready on day one

NOT!

[styersc]

50. You are really going to answer an appeal for the candidate to

steel his spine against criticism with the reply, "Unh uh, you are!!!"

I think that you have made my point.

Do your parents know that you are skipping school and using their computer?

[Carolina]

59. total non sequitor

Obama's spine is fine. HRC IS the WHINER because she's losing what she felt so ENTITLED to and in the process, is proving that she can't find her voice, can't manage a decent campaign and isn't ready on day one. Let's see

- First the tears,
- Then the big bad media is picking on me
- Then look at this shameful campaign literature
-Then why do I have to go first

Say what you want and denigrate me with your bullshit: 'Do your parents know that you are skipping school and using their computer?'... But the truth is the truth. Now fuck off

[TheCowsCameHome]

42. Amazing. Both parties will go away losers in November.

[Vinca]

43. I can see the winning McCain commercial now -

"Even Senator Clinton agrees I have enough experience to be president."

[styersc]

51. McCain does have enough experience to be president. In his

case the argument is not experience, but issues.

If Obama had McCain's resume' he'd be a shoe in. On the other hand, (and I stole this line from a talking head- giving attribution so I don't plagarize)- If a woman had Obama's resume' she'd never be taking seriously as a candidate.

I have long ago recognized that Obama is likely to be the candidate so it makes more sense to know the arguments against him then to just pretend they don't exist.

[workinclasszero]

45. If Hillary can't be President, she would rather have her good friend McCain

get it so she can run again in 2012.

It is all about Hillary Clinton, and the party can go to hell for all she cares!

[bigtree]

47. The Obama campaign is smearing themselves

. . . with their opportunistic parsing of Sen. Clinton's words and their invented, manufactured outrage. They look like pathetic amateurs instead of a campaign which is posturing as the inevitable nominee.

[Independent-Voter]

49. The Dems are fucked if they pick HRC to be the nominee

Really people, Hillary? What the fuck are you thinking? ALL the pubs hate her, most of the independents hate her, hell - a good number of democrats hate her. Her only base at this point are a bunch of older, low-educated, white women, and that ain't going to win an election.

[RamboLiberal]

55. And she's pissed off probably 80% of the African-American vote

I seriously doubt they'll come back to her in the GE.

And while I'm a white 55 year old female who was fully prepared to vote for her in the GE if she had won fairly. Not anymore. She's pissed me off so badly there's no way I'd reward her tactics with the Presidency. Only way she'd get me back is if Obama was on the ticket. And I seriously doubt he be ready to kiss her ass now.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. Oh The Drama.

Get a grip please.