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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 07:54 PM
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It's 3 AM, and Hillary is exaggerating
Edited on Sat Mar-01-08 07:57 PM by ProSense
Hillary continues to mock Obama:

My opponent says its fear mongering to talk about national security and the fact that were at war, Clinton told a crowd at the historic stockyards in Fort Worth. Well, I dont think people in Texas scare all that easily.

Clinton sought to belittle Obama, a first-term senator from Illinois, as inexperienced compared to herself and McCain.

He (McCain) will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Sen. Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002, she told reporters aboard her plane.

And thats why national security is a critical issue for Democrats as we go into this primary because everyone knows that John McCain will make this election about national security. That is a given. And it will be imperative that we have a nominee who is able to stand on that stage with Sen. McCain, and I believe I am the person best able to do that, she said.

His entire campaign is based on one speech he gave at an anti-war rally in 2002, Clinton said of an Obama speech opposing the war in Iraq. And I give him credit for making the speech, but the speech was not followed up with action, which is part of the pattern we have seen repeatedlya lot of talk, little action.


Sorry Hillary, not only would Bill characterize your ad as">fear mongering, but also where is your extensive foreign policy experience?

FACT CHECK: Clinton still has no answer on ringing ad...

March 01, 2008

Clinton still has no answer to the ringing "3 a.m." ad -- and she continues to exaggerate her role on foreign policy issues that she has already been criticized for

RHETORIC: Clinton claims she is better qualified to answer the phone at the White House
FACT: Clinton failed her key foreign policy test with her support for Iraq. Also, Clinton and her campaign can still not answer the question of what in her experience makes her more qualified than Obama to handle tough foreign policy decisions

On CNN today:

Q: Senator, can you talk about one specific time when you've had to make that kind of 3 A.M., split-second decision based on foreign policy?

Clinton: Well, I was involved in a lot of the decisions that were made. But again, you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. I'm presenting you know, no one who hasn't been president has ever done that. So, that's not the right question. The question is, what have you done over the course of a lifetime to equip you for that moment. Now, I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say. He's never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth the speech he made in 2002. And that's why national security is a critical issue for Democrats as we go into this primary; because everyone knows that John McCain will make this election about national security, that is a given. And it will be imperative that we have a nominee who is able to stand on that stage with Senator McCain, and I believe I am the person best able to do that. (CNN, 3/1/08)

From her campaign's conference call yesterday:
It was, in this reporter's opinion, the most interesting moment in today's Clinton campaign phoner with reporters. Responding to the release of HRC's new TX TV ad, which asserts in no subtle terms that only she has the experience to deal with a major world crisis, and, relatedly, to keep your children safe, Slate's John Dickerson asked the obvious question: "What foreign policy moment would you point to in Hillary's career where she's been tested by crisis?" he said. Silence on the call. You could've knit a sweater in the time it took the usually verbose team of Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson and Lee Feinstein, Clinton's national security director, to find a cogent answer. And what they came up with was weak -- that she's been endorsed by many high ranking members of the uniformed military. Take a listen... (Hotline, 2/29/08)

RHETORIC: Clinton claims she was integral in the Northern Ireland peace process and Kosovo

Clinton today on CNN:
Well, the issue is who will be there to answer that phone based on a lifetime of experience, and I feel very comfortable putting forth my lengthy experience in foreign policy, representing our country in more than 80 countries, helping to bring peace to northern Ireland, to negotiate to open up borders during the conflict in Kosovo, standing up for American values and interests from Beijing to Africa, Latin America. And his entire campaign is based on one speech he gave at an anti-war rally in 2002. And I give him credit for making the speech, but the speech was not followed up with action, which is part of the pattern we have seen repeatedly. A lot of talk, little action; or as they say in Texas: all hat and no cattle. By 2004, he was saying how he wasn't sure how he would've voted, and he was saying that he basically agreed with George Bush's handling of the war. By the time he actually came to the Senate, and had an opportunity to vote, he voted in support of funding the war, and he and I voted, I think, virtually the same. These are important distinctions. You've got one speech in 2002 versus a record of accomplishment and a record of action. And I think that equips me for whatever might happen.

FACT: Clinton did not have an integral role and has been repeatedly called out for exaggerating her foreign policy experience

George Mitchell: Clinton Was "Not Involved Directly" In Diplomatic Negotiations of Northern Ireland Peace Process.
"Hillary Clinton has repeatedly cited her White House years as key to why she has the ability to serve as president from "Day One." Both she and her husband have pointed to her "independent" role in bringing peace to Northern Ireland as an example of her foreign policy experience. Her critics, notably former Clinton pollster Dick Morris, have poured scorn on her claim that she was "intimately involved" in the peace process. So who is right? <...> she accompanied her husband as first lady on those four occasions, so they were hardly "independent" visits. (She would sometimes fly in a day early to give a lecture.) <...> I just spoke to Senator George Mitchell, the Clinton administration's leading Northern Ireland peace negotiator, who said that Hillary was "not involved directly" in the diplomatic negotiations that led to the landmark April 1998 Good Friday agreement on power-sharing. On the other hand, Mitchell credits Clinton with taking an intelligent interest in the issues and getting acquainted with many of the key players. <...> Chris Thornton, a political reporter for the Belfast Telegraph, said that Hillary Clinton's visits to northern Ireland contributed to the "mood music" that made an eventual settlement possible, but were hardly key to reaching an agreement. "Would we have reached a settlement without that kind of stuff? Yes. Would we have got one without the intervention of Bill Clinton and George Mitchell? No." Hillary is making a lot more of her Northern Ireland role on the campaign trail than she did in her memoir "Living History." As the Boston Globe recently noted, her stories of bringing Protestant and Catholic women together have become more dramatic with each retelling. The claim that she brought Catholics and Protestants together "for the first time" seems dubious. This would not be the first time that she has mixed up her chronology. (Washington Post, Fact Checker, 1/10/08)

Washington Post, On Clinton's Role In Kosovo: "Clinton Repeated Her Claim About Negotiating With Foreign Governments 'On Matters Such As Opening Borders For Refugees During The Way In Kosovo. As I Pointed Out' ... This Seems Quite A Stretch." "Clinton repeated her claim about negotiating with foreign governments 'on matters such as opening borders for refugees during the war in Kosovo.' As I pointed out in this post, this seems quite a stretch. She is referring to a visit that she made to Macedonia, Kosovo's neighbor, during the NATO bombing campaign against Serbia in May 1999. Clinton arrived in Macedonia on May 14, 1999, and visited Albanian refugee camps along the border with Kosovo. Macedonia had closed its borders with Kosovo, to prevent even more refugees from entering the country, but re-opened the border under western pressure on May 13, the day before Clinton's arrival. U.S. diplomats used the prospect of Clinton's visit to extract a concession from the Macedonian government, but Clinton did not directly negotiate with the Macedonians herself. That is not the job of First Ladies." (Washington Post, 2/21/08)

Washington Post, On Clinton's Role In Kosovo: "The Record shows That (Clinton) Took An Intelligent Interest In All These Issues, Addressing Conferences And Meeting With Victims Of War, But Did Not Get Involved In Diplomatic Negotiations In An Meaningful Way. Her Role Was More Symbolic Than Substantive." "The Clinton campaign has provided various news clips to support Hillary Clinton's claim during last night's debate about 'negotiating with governments like Macedonia to open their border again, to let Kosovar refugees in.' The news articles make clear that Clinton visited Albanian refugee camps in Macedonia on May 14, 1999, during the NATO bombing war against Serbia. Macedonia had closed its borders the previous week, in order to stem the flow of Albanian refugees from Kosovo. The Macedonian government reopened the border on May 13, the day before Clinton toured the camps. According to this CNN report, only a few stragglers crossed the border. Clearly, Clinton's visit to Macedonia helped focus even more international attention on the country and the refugee crisis that resulted from the forced expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Albanians from Kosovo by the Serbian authorities. According to a May 16 Chicago Tribune report cited by the Clinton campaign, Clinton announced the "release of the first $2 million in a $21 million economic development package for Macedonia" at a meeting with Macedonian government leaders. The question is whether Clinton personally negotiated the deal with the Macedonian government--or U.S. diplomats used her forthcoming visit as an additional incentive to persuade the Macedonian authorities to re-open the border. The sequence of events--first the border reopening, followed by Clinton's visit to the camps and her meeting with Macedonian government leaders--points to the second scenario. This issue may seem trivial but it addresses the question of the nature of Clinton's White House experience. Was she the traditional First Lady or was she almost a co-president with Bill, helping to bring peace in Northern Ireland and negotiating with foreign governments? A truthful answer is somewhere in between. As a candidate, she has naturally tried to focus public attention on the trips she made to places like China, Northern Ireland, and the Balkans, and her meetings with foreign leaders. She claimed at one point that she was "intimately involved" in the Northern Ireland peace process. The record shows that she took an intelligent interest in all these issues, addressing conferences and meeting with victims of war, but did not get involved in diplomatic negotiations in any meaningful way. Her role was more symbolic than substantive." (Washington Post, 1/31/08)
Clinton Does Not Have National Security Experience Or Experience Dealing With A National Security Crisis

Clinton Did Not Hold A Security Clearance And Did Not Attend National Security Meetings. "During those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president's daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda." (NYT, 12/26/07)

Clinton Said She Did Not Attend Formal National Security Council Meetings. Clinton, on her role in the Clinton administration, said "I don't think it would have been appropriate to attend a formal national security council meeting, I've said that when I am president, my husband won't do that." (">NBC, 1/2/08)

New York Times: Clinton Did "Not Wrestle Directly With Many Of The Challenges The Next President Will Face" And Some Administration Officials Are Skeptical That The Clinton's Conversations And Her 79 Trips Abroad Add Up To A Unique Experience. Clinton "did not wrestle directly with many of the other challenges the next president will face, including managing a large-scale deployment -- or withdrawal of troops abroad, an overhaul of the intelligence agencies or the effort to halt the spread of nuclear weapons technology. ... But other administration officials, as well as opponents of Mrs. Clinton, are skeptical that the couple's conversations and her 79 trips add up to unique experience that voters should reward. She was not independently judging intelligence, for the most part, or mediating the data, egos and agendas of a national security team. And, in the end, she did not feel or process the weight of responsibility." (NYT, 12/26/07)
Clinton Has Exaggerated Her Foreign Policy Experience

The Economist: Clinton's "Experience Of Grappling With Foreign Powers Is Slighter Than She Implies." "Of the first-tier candidates, Hillary Clinton probably knows the most about foreign affairs. Name a country or a crisis and she can shoot back with a carefully formulated position on it. But her experience of grappling with foreign powers is slighter than she often implies. Racking up airmiles as first lady is not quite the same as negotiating a treaty. She makes much of her speech to the UN women's conference in Beijing in 1995, but a president has to grapple with tougher problems than that." (The Economist, 11/29/07)

Newsweek: Clinton's "Sanitized, Ceremonial Trips Abroad Are Hardly Preparation For The Middle-Of-The-Night Call From The Situation Room." Hillary Clinton highlights her extensive travel to more than 80 countries as First Lady and her 1995 women's rights speech to the U.N. to demonstrate of her foreign policy experience. Newsweek wrote, "But these sanitized, ceremonial trips abroad are hardly preparation for the middle-of-the-night call from the Situation Room." (Newsweek, 8/6/07)

Newsweek: Clinton Cited First Lady-Trips As Foreign Policy Experience- "Laura Bush Has Also Traveled Extensively" And "No One Is Saying She Has The Experience." Clinton's aides point to her extensive travel to more than 80 countries as First Lady and her 1995 speech at a U.N. conference on women in Beijing as proof for her foreign policy experience. "Laura Bush has also traveled extensively as First Lady, taking in 68 countries either with her husband or on her own. No one is saying she has the experience to be commander in chief." (Newsweek, 8/6/07)

Was Clinton Really The "Face Of The Administration" In Foreign Affairs?

Clinton Said That "There Are Lots Of Ways In Which What I Did Was The Face Of America When I Was There."
Asked about former Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack's comments that she was the face of foreign policy during her husband's administration, Clinton said, "I traveled to I think, I don't know, maybe 80, 82 countries... and I went a lot of places that the president or the vice president or the Secretary of State couldn't go or couldn't get there yet. I was the first person for the administration to go to Bosnia after the Dayton Peace accords. I went to Africa; I went to India, Pakistan, the Indian subcontinent to sort of lay the groundwork for building an American relationship with a visit to come from the president. I went to Latin America, I think every year that I was in the White House, meeting with government officials, first ladies, not for profit organizations on issues like health care and education. I think that there are lots of ways in which what I did was the face of America when I was there when I was representing not just my husband but the country." (MSNBC, 11/25/07)

Maureen Dowd: Clinton "Went Of Some First Lady Jaunts And Made A Good Speech At A U.N. Women's Conference In Beijing. But She Was Certainly Not... 'The Face Of The Administration In Foreign Affairs.'" "Her Democratic rivals had meekly gone along, accepting her self-portrait as a former co-president who gets to take credit for everything important Bill Clinton did in the '90s. But she was not elected or appointed to a position that needed Senate confirmation. And the part of the Clinton administration that worked best the economy, stupid was run by Robert Rubin. Hillary did not show good judgment in her areas of influence the legal fiefdom, health care and running oppo-campaigns against Bill's galpals. She went on some first lady jaunts and made a good speech at a U.N. women's conference in Beijing. But she was certainly not, as her top Iowa supporter, former governor Tom Vilsack claimed yesterday on MSNBC, "the face of the administration in foreign affairs."" (Maureen Dowd, NYT, 11/21/07)


Obama on National Security

Obama on Veterans Affairs

Now, Hillary may not understand what that Obama fellow is talking about, but the experts do!

Former Clinton administration official John Holum on Obama's foreign policy

John Holum -- who served for eight years under the Clinton administration, first as Director of the U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency and then as Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security -- writes about why Obama is the best candidate on foreign policy...

As a long time friend of the Clintons and a member of President Clinton's foreign policy team, I naturally assumed I'd be firmly in Senator Clinton's camp in 2008. Instead, by last fall I'd become an enthusiastic supporter of Barack Obama. Why?

There are two good reasons: The first comes from who Barack Obama is.

It will take at least a generation to repair the damage to U.S. international interests inflicted by George Bush and the far-right ideologues whose pet theories became his lodestars. After the debacle in Iraq, hawked through exaggerated intelligence and minimized dangers, we'll have to struggle uphill just to regain American credibility, so other nations and institutions will at least trust what we say. Then we'll need to rebuild alliances fractured by Bush's arrogant go-it-alone mentality, and forge new friendships and coalitions effectively to address challenges as diverse as climate change and radical Islam, which even the world's strongest nation can't resolve by itself. In short, we'll have to re-connect with the world, through means other than arms and bluster.

The election of Barack Obama will, in and of itself, jump-start those endeavors. His heritage and extraordinary life story will capture the imagination of people all over the world, and be seen as a confirmation, more powerful than any words, that America has returned to our best ideals. In one stroke, it will propel us out of the hole Bush has dug for us and onto the high ground, where we can engage from strength and respect.

The second reason for supporting Obama is change -- a word lately so widely cribbed and overused as to be nearly drained of meaning. But in Obama's case it carries profound content -- indeed, on some of the very issues on which he's been assailed, he's shown a way of looking at foreign and national security policy that breaks through tired old talking points and opens up new avenues for progress. Some examples:

When Senator Obama said in a debate he'd be prepared to talk directly with the heads of rogue states such as Iran, North Korea and Cuba, it was widely described as a mis-step. Senator Clinton, instinctively lining up with settled precepts, called him nave, a charge recently echoed by the presumptive Republican nominee, Senator John McCain. Obama is the only one prepared to look at things in a new way.

When Obama suggested he wouldn't brandish nuclear weapons against Osama bin Laden, Senator Clinton chastised him again, declaring that we shouldn't signal the circumstances in which nuclear weapons might be used. That's the old formula, all right, but to adhere to it blindly in this case is both unrealistic and foolish, conveying the message that we place no value on the tens of thousands of other lives that would be extinguished if we decided to "nuke" one despicable person.

There was more tut-tutting when Senator Obama said if we knew where bin Laden was hiding and Pakistan's leader wouldn't allow us to go after him, the U.S. would act on its own. Then the bipartisan co-chairs of the 9/11 Commission, Lee Hamilton and Thomas Kean, said the same thing, and soon the other Democratic candidates were following suit -- although Senator McCain still thinks otherwise.

On the spread of nuclear weapons, Senator Obama has grasped the core truth that to enforce the global agreement against proliferation, the U.S. must live up to our side of the bargain and move toward a world entirely free of such weapons. That, too, challenges much orthodoxy, and it's a pledge Senator Clinton has not yet made. But it's where a wise President must lead if we are to avert an even more dangerous world.

On each of these issues the other candidates and foreign policy experts have become increasingly receptive to Senator Obama's views. But as with his 2002 opposition to the Iraq war, it has been Barack Obama demonstrating the judgment, foresight and courage to lead the way.

In sum, because of both who he is and what he believes, Senator Obama offers the hope of a rapid recovery from the Bush years, and a liberation from the foreign policy conformity that too often holds us back. He is our best hope for not just the terminology of "change," but the reality -- and embodies an opportunity America cannot afford to pass by.

A glimpse at Team Obama on foreign policy:

Richard Alan Clarke<1> (born 1951) was a U.S. government employee for 30 years, 1973 - 2003. He worked for the State Department during the presidency of Ronald Reagan.<2> Following the presidency of George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton promoted Clarke to be the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the U.S. National Security Council. Under President George W. Bush Clarke no longer had cabinet-level access, but continued in the same position until his retirement in January 2003, serving as a member of the Senior Executive Service, specializing in intelligence, cyber security and counter-terrorism. He was thus a part of the executive branch at the time of the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Anthony Lake (born April 2, 1939) is an American diplomat, political figure, and academic. He has been a foreign policy advisor to many Democratic U.S. presidents and presidential candidates, and served as National Security Advisor under U.S. President Bill Clinton from 1993 to 1997. Lake is credited with developing the policy that led to the resolution of the Bosnian War. He is currently a faculty member at the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University, holding the chair of Distinguished Professor in the Practice of Diplomacy.

Lawrence J. Korb is a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress and a Senior Advisor to the Center for Defense Information. Prior to joining the Center, he was a Senior Fellow and Director of National Security Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. From July 1998 to October 2002, he was Council Vice President, Director of Studies, and holder of the Maurice Greenberg Chair.

Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzezinski (Polish: Zbigniew Kazimierz Brzeziński <'zbigɲev bʐɛ'ʑiɲski>) : (born March 28, 1928, Warsaw, Poland) is a Polish-American political scientist, geostrategist, and statesman who served as United States National Security Advisor to President Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981. Known for his hawkish foreign policy at a time when the Democratic Party was increasingly dovish, he is a foreign policy realist and considered by some to be the Democrats' response to Republican realist Henry Kissinger.<1>

Susan E. Rice was the United States Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs from October 1997 until January 20, 2001. Rice is currently on leave from the Brookings Institution and is currently a foreign policy adviser to Democratic Presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama.

Dr. Rice started her career as a management consultant at McKinsey & Company, the global management consulting firm, in the early 1990s. From 1993-1995, she was Director for International Organizations and Peacekeeping at the National Security Council. Between 1995 and 1997, she served as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the NSC. After that, she served as Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs from 1997 until 2001. During the 2004 presidential campaign, Dr. Rice served as a foreign policy adviser to John Kerry. She is currently serving as a foreign policy adviser to the 2008 presidential campaign of Barack Obama.

Samantha Power is the Anna Lindh Professor of Practice of Global Leadership and Public Policy at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government. Her book, A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide , was awarded the 2003 Pulitzer Prize for general non-fiction, the 2003 National Book Critics Circle Award for general non-fiction, and the Council on Foreign Relations' Arthur Ross Prize for the best book in U.S. foreign policy. Power's New Yorker article on the horrors in Darfur, Sudan won the 2005 National Magazine Award for best reporting. Power was the founding executive director of the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy (1998-2002). From 1993-1996, she covered the wars in the former Yugoslavia as a reporter for the U.S. News and World Report , The Boston Globe , and The Economist . Power is the editor, with Graham Allison, of Realizing Human Rights: Moving from Inspiration to Impact . A graduate of Yale University and Harvard Law School, she moved to the United States from Ireland at the age of nine. She spent 2005-06 working in the office of Senator Barack Obama and is currently writing a political biography of the UN's Sergio Vieira de Mello.

General Merrill A. McPeak...As the military and foreign policy of the Bush administration coalesced, however, McPeak expressed strong objections, especially with regard to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. McPeak later openly campaigned for Howard Dean's nomination, and when Dean withdrew, acted as an adviser for the John Kerry campaign. He was also one of twenty-seven signatories to the statement of the "Committee of Diplomats & Commanders for Change" calling the Bush Administration a failure at "preserving national security" and calling for Bush not to be re-elected.

He now is working as a co-chair on Barack Obama's presidential campaign.


Retired Nov. 1, 1994.

General Merrill A. McPeak is chief of staff of the U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. As chief, he serves as the senior uniformed Air Force officer responsible for the organization, training and equipage of a combined active duty, Guard, Reserve and civilian force of over 850,000 people serving at approximately 1,300 locations in the United States and overseas. As a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he and the other service chiefs function as military advisers to the secretary of defense, National Security Council and the president.

The general entered the Air Force in 1957 as a distinguished graduate of the San Diego State College ROTC program. He has commanded an Air Force wing, a numbered Air Force and, before becoming Air Force chief of staff, commanded the Pacific Air Forces, a major command. He is a command pilot, having flown more than 6,000 hours, principally in fighter aircraft. He flew two years as a solo pilot for the elite aerial demonstration team, the Thunderbirds, and flew as an attack pilot and high-speed forward air controller in Vietnam.

1957 Bachelor of arts degree in economics, San Diego State College
1970 Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, Va.
1974 Master's degree in international relations, George Washington University
1974 National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.
1979 The Executive Development Program, University of Michigan Graduate School of Business

1. November 1957 - January 1958, student, Officer Preflight Training, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas
2. January 1958 - January 1959, student, pilot training, Hondo Air Base, Texas, and Vance Air Force Base, Okla.
3. February 1959 - December 1959, student, F-100 combat crew training, Luke Air Force Base, Ariz., and Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.
4. December 1959 - August 1961, F-104C fighter pilot, 436th Tactical Fighter Squadron, George Air Force Base, Calif.
5. August 1961 - May 1964, F-100D fighter pilot, 79th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Royal Air Force Station Woodbridge, England
6. May 1964 - August 1965, fighter staff officer, tactical evaluation division, Headquarters 3rd Air Force, South Ruislip Air Station, England
7. September 1965 - December 1966, F-104G instructor pilot, 4443rd Combat Crew Training Squadron; later, F-104G weapons officer, 4510th Combat Crew Training Wing, Luke Air Force Base, Ariz.
8. December 1966 - December 1968, demonstration pilot, U.S. Air Force Air Demonstration Squadron, the Thunderbirds, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.
9. December 1968 - January 1969, F-100D fighter pilot, 612th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Phu Cat Air Base, Republic of Vietnam
10. January 1969 - August 1969, operations officer, later commander, Operation Commando Sabre (Misty Fast FACs), Phu Cat Air Base, Republic of Vietnam
11. August 1969 - December 1969, chief, standardization and evaluation division, 31st Tactical Fighter Wing, Tuy Hoa Air Base, Republic of Vietnam
12. January 1970 - July 1970, student, Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, Va.
13. August 1970 - August 1973, air operations staff officer, Mideast Division, directorate of plans and policy, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
14. August 1973 - June 1974, student, National War College, Fort Lesley J. McNair, Washington, D.C.
15. June 1974 - April 1975, assistant deputy commander for operations, 1st Tactical Fighter Wing, MacDill Air Force Base, Fla.
16. April 1975 - June 1975, student, French language training (en route for duty as air attache to Republic of Cambodia), Foreign Service Institute, Washington, D.C.
17. July 1975 - June 1976, military fellow, Council on Foreign Relations, New York City
18. July 1976 - July 1977, commander, 513th Combat Support Group, Royal Air Force Station Mildenhall, England
19. July 1977 - July 1978, vice commander, 406th Tactical Fighter Training Wing, Zaragoza Air Base, Spain
20. July 1978 - February 1980, assistant chief of staff, current operations, Allied Air Forces Central Europe, Boerfink, West Germany
21. February 1980 - June 1981, commander, 20th Tactical Fighter Wing, Royal Air Force Station Upper Heyford, England
22. June 1981 - October 1982, chief of staff, Headquarters U.S. Air Forces in Europe, Ramstein Air Base, West Germany
23. October 1982 - May 1985, deputy chief of staff, plans, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va.
24. May 1985 - June 1987, deputy chief of staff, programs and resources, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.
25. June 1987 - July 1988, commander, 12th Air Force and commander, U.S. Southern Command Air Forces, Bergstrom Air Force Base, Texas
26. July 1988 - October 1990, commander in chief, Pacific Air Forces, Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii
27. October 1990 - October 1994, chief of staff, U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C.

Rating: Command pilot, parachutist
Flight hours: More than 6,000
Aircraft flown: F-4, F-15, F-16, F-100, F-104, F- 111
Pilot wings from: Germany, Spain, Mexico, Thailand, Yugoslavia France, Israel, Russia, Bulgaria, Venezuela and Poland

Distinguished Service Medal
Silver Star
Legion of Merit with oak leaf cluster
Distinguished Flying Cross with oak leaf cluster
Meritorious Service Medal
Air Medal with 13 oak leaf clusters
Air Force Commendation Medal with three oak leaf clusters
Vietnam Service Medal with four service stars
Republic of Vietnam Gallantry Cross with Palm

"Training and Discipline, Keys to Maximum Performance," TAC ATTACK, August 1968
"Israel: Borders and Security," Foreign Affairs, April 1976
"TAC Air Missions and the Fire Support Coordination Line," Air University Review, Sept. - Oct. 1985
"For the Composite Wing," Air Power Journal, Fall 1990

Second Lieutenant June 19, 1957
First Lieutenant May 30, 1959
Captain Oct. 1, 1962
Major May 20, 1968
Lieutenant Colonel Nov. 1, 1972
Colonel April 1, 1974
Brigadier General July 1, 1981
Major General Oct. 1, 1983
Lieutenant General May 22, 1985
General Aug. 1, 1988

(Current as of May 1993)

Edited missing word
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kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. kick for Team Obama on foreign policy
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thanks, it's impressive! n/t
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. A great deal of important information -
but people don't generally wade though information bombs like this. It would have more impact, and reach more people, by breaking it into several shorter threads, IMO.

There's a point were people's eyes start to glaze over.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-01-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Exactly.......I'd say to Hillary......
answer the phone and say "What?" Hillary? You don't even know.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. Great post! A couple of nagging observations about Hillary's ad -
Why did it take so long for her to answer the damn phone especially when she was up at 3 am sitting at her desk working? ;-)
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. She was too busy securing
her "toy" again?

Okay, I don't know who is best with foreign policy, and I've said it before I like Clinton's (assuming she's been straightforward with it), but without solid domestic policies, would it matter in the end?

Right now, more Americans seem to want a secure direction on domestic policy. Both Dem candidates speak big plans.
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mattclearing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. K&R.
Excellent post.
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Debi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
7. Once again ProSense
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. K& R
Now, I have to read the rest of this wonderful post. This is incredible.
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George II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great job - lots of work there, thanks....

PS - why didn't she answer the phone when Monica called?
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R ...excellent. n/t
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milkyway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hillary's "experience" and "competence" is largely a myth. She has much less experience than her
campaign leads people to believe, and she's proven to be an incompetent executive. The two national projects that she's managed--healthcare in the 90's and this campaign--have both been mismanaged failures.

And during the Texas debate, when she was asked about a crisis that had tested her, the best she could come up with is to imply when her spouse fucked around on her. She has lots of company on that, but most others don't claim it on their presidential resume.

And sure, you could say that Obama has even less experience, but he's not basing his campaign on it. Also, he's proven to be a much better manager than Hillary during this campaign.

If she's such an experienced, savvy politician, why is she losing to a guy her campaign characterizes as a neophyte? The entire premise for her campaign collapsed as soon as she lost Iowa. If she's so good, how did she lose?
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Diane R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Very thorough. Thank you.
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. I had to stop and post on the Foreign Policy
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 02:25 PM by bigbrother05
I can't believe that was her response,35 years of nonsensical bullshit. I think Grantcart is right, she is just raising money for her war chest.
On edit, thanks for all your work
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wow
Impressive work there.

Thank you for putting this together.

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speedoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R, and bookmarked.
Great post, ProSense.

Thanks very much.
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Utopian Leftist Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Who?
So who do YOU want answering the phones at the White House?

I keep wishing to hear Barack answer that America is electing a President, NOT a Receptionist, heh. B-)
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
18. John Kerry had an excellent response
to the 3 a.m. ad today on Late Edition on CNN.

BLITZER: We're looking at these live pictures of Senator Obama speaking right now in Nelsonville, Ohio, Ohio one of those four states with these critical primaries coming up on Tuesday. Senator Clinton suggesting, as Senator McCain has suggested, other critics of Senator Obama have suggested, he simply doesn't have the experience, the requirements needed to be commander in chief.

Listen to this ad that she is now running in Texas.


ANNOUNCER: Your vote will decide who answers that call, whether it's someone who already knows the world's leaders, knows the military, someone tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world. It's 3 a.m., and your children are safe and asleep. Who do you want answering the phone?


BLITZER: Here's the question, Senator. What national security issues, what crisis has Senator Obama faced that would justify his being the commander in chief and getting that 3 a.m. phone call?

KERRY: Well, first of all, Wolf, the question applies to both of them. And the person asking the question really is culpable here of a fear tactic. I might add, you know, most of the time I think people are going to hear that phone ringing, and they're going to rush to answer the phone and not see the ad.

But leaving that aside, it strikes me that the ad is really deception and disingenuous. Hillary Clinton has never received a 3 a.m. in the morning telephone call as a senator or as a first lady. And secondly, when asked, when her campaign was asked, well, what crisis has she ever faced in which she's made a difference in foreign policy, they really couldn't answer.

They tried to say, well, she made a speech in China or something like that. The fact is that she had a red phone moment, as Barack Obama said. Her red phone moment was on the war in Iraq, and she chose the Bush course, the wrong course.

She had a red phone moment in Iran. When Senator Dodd, Senator Biden, Senator Obama, myself opposed the policy, she chose the Bush policy on Iran. She had a red phone moment. The fact is that Barack Obama comes to this race with more experience than George Bush, Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton had in foreign policy at the national level. And the fact is that he has proven that it's his judgment that is correct. That's what the American people are voting for, and I believe they will see clearly that's a scare tactic. And in fact, it raises an issue which falls, in my judgment, in Barack Obama's favor.">full transcript here

BTW ProSense :yourock:
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ladym55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. Excellent job, Prosense!
You always do terrific work. The detail here will be great for future reference. :hi:
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. but but but ...
McCain has far more experience at making brain-washed foreign policy decisions than Hillary.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Her "lifetime experience"? That's fucking hysterical!!!!!!

Sorry for the profanity, but I'm tired of this bullshit.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. She didn't read the NIE. She voted to support an immoral President in an immoral war.
That's the sum total of her foreign policy experience.

Now, I have to say when it came to making the most important foreign policy decision of our generation the decision to invade Iraq Senator Clinton got it wrong.

, Jay Rockefeller read it, but she didnt read it. I dont know what all that experience got her because in my experience if you have a National Intelligence Estimate and the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee says, 'You should read this, this is why Im voting against the war,' then you should probably read it. I dont know how much experience you need for that.

She didnt first give diplomacy a chance. And to this day, she wont even admit that her vote was a mistake or even that it was a vote for war. And so besides that decision to invade Iraq, were still waiting to hear Senator Clinton tell us what precise foreign policy experience that she is claiming that makes her prepared to answer that phone call at three in the morning.

Senator Clinton you will be held accountable for your unfounded, immoral and deadly wrong support of Bush and his war of aggression on the people of Iraq.

Count on it.

Yes. We. Will.

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psychmommy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
23. the pregnant pause from hotline
was absolutely priceless. i had to listen like 3 times.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. Former NY Gov. Carey (who was involved in the Northen Ireland process) endorses Obama over Clinton

Former NY Gov. Carey endorses Obama over Clinton

11:33 AM EST, March 3, 2008

NEW YORK - Former Gov. Hugh Carey has endorsed Barack Obama's bid for the Democratic presidential nomination over fellow New Yorker Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Carey praises Obama's judgment, inspiration and leadership while saying either candidate would be a major improvement over the current administration.

He says Obama can deal with crisis and think globally to protect national security. Carey also cites Obama's call for bipartisanship and coalitions to address issues facing the nation.

Carey was a seven-term congressman from Brooklyn and was twice elected governor from 1975 to 1982.

Hugh Leo Carey (born April 11, 1919) was the Governor of New York between 1975 and 1982.


Along with Senators Edward Kennedy and Daniel Patrick Moynihan and U.S. House Speaker Tip O'Neill, all Irish-Americans like him, Carey led efforts to end the violence in Northern Ireland and support peace in the region.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-04-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
25. Clinton Texas Coordinator: '3 AM' Ad Too Late

Clinton Texas Coordinator: '3 AM' Ad Too Late

March 04, 2008 11:44 AM

Garry Mauro, a longtime Clinton family friend and the Texas state coordinator for Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., told ABC News that the Clinton campaign waited too long before challenging the national security credentials of Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill.

"I find it fascinating that asking the question 'Who do you want to answer a telephone at 3 o'clock in the morning when there is a problem?' is a big problem," Mauro said about the controversial Clinton ad running in Texas that implies Obama would not effectively be able to keep the nation safe. "That is a question that should have been asked from day one."

Asked if he was faulting the campaign's senior advisers for waiting until the waning days of the Texas race before running that ad, Mauro said, "I am from Texas and we get to second-guess everybody. We get to second-guess our football coaches first and our politicians next. And yeah, I can second-guess their political decisions just like I second-guess the calls that are played on the football field, but that doesn't accomplish much."

Mauro made the comments in an interview that ran on last night's "Nightline".

The Clintons have known Mauro since they came to Texas in 1972 to work for the ill-fated presidential campaign of Sen. George McGovern.


Summary: Hillary should have played the fear card sooner!

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