Telling people who they "must" vote for in the GE is un-democratic

[Bread and Circus]

We vote in secrecy for a reason.

If my candidate (Obama) wins and if people don't like him and don't want to vote for him, they shouldn't be bullied into it. They should be able to vote for whom they want, out of their own free will, and their own free choice.

It will be Obama's or Clinton's job to convince us to vote for them. They don't own anyone's vote.

I understand the policy on DU to prohibit campaigning against the selected nominee when we get to that point.

However, I think the language suggesting people are stupid or immoral for not swearing 100% allegience to a party is counter-productive.

On balance, I think it's a good thing that Nader is running. I believe in political pluralism. Marching in lockstep like brownshirts is not a liberal or progressive value.

Who an individual plans to vote for is really only the business of the individual themselves.

We should be able to have a far-ranging debate about politics with resorting to bullying. If people are secure in their positions and their party, there should be no reason to bully anyway.

I believe that little "d" democracy is more important than the brand name big "D" Democratic Party, even if this is big "D" Democratic Underground. In order to protect democracy, we have to respect free speech and free will.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. Have you not seen the last 8 years of Republican rule?

And given that every person on DU is allegedly a Democrat, or minimally, a progressive, there really shouldn't be ANY debate about it on DU. Not one single self-respecting Democrat and/or DU member should have any thoughts other than voting for the most progressive candidate with an actual chance to win.

One last note: This is a private website - DU is not a democracy. Don't like it? Feel free to frequent other political websites that are less partisan in nature.

[leftofcool]

6. DU is private?

Now that is odd, considering some of my friends who are Republicans read it daily. They don't post but they do read it.

"Not one single self-respecting Democrat and/or DU member should have any thoughts other than voting for the most progressive candidate with an actual chance to win." ( your own words)

My question is why? I am a self respecting Democrat and have been for 50 years. Shouldn't I be voting the way I want to and not just because I am convinced the candidate is progressive enough or actually has a chance to win? By your logic Mccain has a good chance of winning.

Left of Cool

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

10. DU is not owned by the government.

It is a privately held entity and is run at the discretion of its owners (aka Skinner).

By my logic, and by any rational person's logic, the most progressive person in the race with a chance to actually win is going to be the Democratic nominee. Period. There is no such logic, using my argument, that would position McCain as a legitimate person to obtain my vote.

If you want to vote for someone other than our nominee, fine, go ahead. I would just question why you'd want to affiliate yourself with a group like DU if you'd consider doing that. If you're a DU member, your bottom line should be to have the most progressive person possible be POTUS. And if it's not, you shouldn't be a DU member. In not so many words, it's in our mission statement.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

20. But what if "the most progressive" candidate is not a Democrat?

Is it all in the eye of the beholder? Must their name follow with a (D)? What is your opinion on that?

[leftofcool]

24. That was my next question.

What I find fascinating is that people here say "you must vote this way" or "you must vote for my candidate because...." or "you negate our mission statement because you belive such and such..." or you're not a good/real Democrat if you don't vote the way I think you should." I am so thankful and truly blessed to live in a country where my vote is my own, it is private, and made by me after lengthy considerations, weighing all the options and using my best judgement. Simply fascinating.

Left of cool

[leftofcool]

2. Absolutely Agree!

Since my chosen candidate has left the building, I am strongly considering Nader.

Left of Cool

[KittyWampus]

5. why not find another website, or start your own NaderUnderground?

[leftofcool]

7. Why do I need to do that?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. Because this is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

And Nader is NOT a Democrat.

[MaineDem]

8. What a shame

The McCain appointed Supreme Court will do so many good things for America. Not.

[leftofcool]

9. As compared to

Let us say, the one we have now?

Left of Cool

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. The one we have now is NOT an option for the 2008 Election.

So your point is asinine and moot.

[MaineDem]

16. Actually, yes

The one we have now has usually been 5-4. Three appointments by the next President will change that, one way or another.

I feel very strongly about this. I fear for our future with another Republican appointed Supreme Court. Votes for Nader will ensure it.

[LoZoccolo]

3. You must vote for the Democratic nominee in the GE. n/t

[onehandle]

4. Bush and Gore are Exactly the same.

And I have no right to tell you otherwise. Got it.

:eyes:

[Frances]

12. Yep. Was there, Heard that.

I agree that people have every right to support Nader if they so desire.

But I don't think DU is the place to do so, because this board is for Democrats, not Naderites or Greens.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

14. A-fucking-men.

This ain't IndependentUnderground, NaderUnderground, GreenUnderground, or even ProgressiveUnderground. It's DEMOCRATICUNDERGROUND.

[Bread and Circus]

18. DU has Civility Rules. I suggest you read them.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. I suggest you take your self-righteousness elsewhere.

I haven't violated any of those rules, and if I have, please feel free to let a moderator decide, okay?

[Tarc]

22. And what exactly did he violate?

If you're going to whine about the use of the word "fuck", then you need to grow some thicker skin.

[moriah]

15. I understand where you're coming from...

.... but at the same time, it kind of pisses me off that people who call themselves Democrats can say "If my Democratic candidate doesn't win the nomination I'll vote for McCain". It pissed me off when Clinton was the nominee-presumptive and people said that. It still pisses me off now that it looks like Obama may get the nomination, and I do support Clinton.

I have a feeling a great deal of the Nader backlash is because we do know that had even a few of those in Florida who voted for Nader go for Gore, we would not have had Bush in the White House.

Vote for the Democratic nominee, write in a Democrat, vote for a progressive 3rd party candidate.... but please, don't vote for McCain to thumb your nose at the party because your favorite candidate didn't get the nomination. That's all I ask.

[Ian David]

17. You can vote for anyone you want to. But if you vote Republican, we will all die within 4 years. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. The Democratic Party doesn't own my vote or allegiance.

It the candidates want my vote, it's available, but they have to earn it.

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

“Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only, no matter how big its membership may be is, no freedom at all. Freedom is always freedom for the man who thinks differently. “
Rosa Luxemburg

[leftofcool]

25. Excellent Post!

I had long forgotten some of these quotes. Thank you for reminding me.

Left of Cool

[Tarc]

23. BTW, invoking Nazi imagery pretty much means that you have lost thre debate