Here is what I feel is happening now with HRC™

[IDemo]

The numbers now speak convincingly of an Obama win for the nomination. Even an optimistic look at her odds in the remaining races leaves her increasingly looking like a woman clutching a PowerBall lotto ticket in hopes of a miracle. This is true regardless of the potential for super delegate shenanigans or a last minute seating of Florida and Michigan delegates. Neither is likely to occur, but neither would be the deciding factor in the end anyway.

If it looks like she is not going to go down without taking the Democratic party with her, that's because it's partly true.

So, what has Hillary got to gain ultimately by maintaining the negativity, knowing she will very likely lose? How about a damaged Obama brand name, followed by a McCain win and a Hillary2 reappearance in 2012? She can do this by gambling (once again) that she will have learned the hard lessons about campaigning as Queen Inevitable, and by betting that the Hope and Change trademarks will no longer belong exclusively to Obama. And, if Obama were to lose, even in a close election (or election theft 3.0), she can make the claim that she would have won, even if the numbers now indicate otherwise.

[Barack_America]

1. You're going to get flamed for this, but I agree with you.

On the record, lol.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4718352

[IDemo]

5. It's hard to type wearing this flame-proof asbestos suit

:hi:

[monmouth]

2. No flame from me either, you might be right on this...n/t

[yellowcanine]

3. I don't think so. HRC is finished as a national candidate if she does that.

This is frustration, imo. She thought the primaries were going to be a coronation and it is not working out. And she is losing to a 1st term Senator. Politics is a big game played by people with big egos. It is just a lot to handle. I still think she will pull out of it once the denial/shock/anger phases are over.

[IndianaGreen]

6. At the rate she is going, I don't think she should even be Senate Majority Leader

Let her and Bill live happily ever after in Chappaqua.

[Faygo Kid]

9. I lean towards this argument.

It's been a lot of years for her and her supporters gearing up for this, the culmination of her life and efforts. I think that's what it's all about.

She's been smoked by a black guy with a funny name, and she is furious about it.

[CitizenRob]

4. DU Mods should lock this thread any second now....

It's flame bait! You can tell because you have an opinion involving original thought.

[HeraldSquare212]

7. Don't miss the Americablog post talking about the fact that McCain's pollster works for Penn, too

Penn's company wins as long as Clinton or McCain win, so while going negative on Obama - as he's apparently been urging Clinton to do - will hurt the Dems, it may help his company pull out a win.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/mark-penns-tangled-corporate-web.html

[Cha]

13. Well, that's enlightening!

I knew mark penn lived in a rat hole..I just didn't know how diseased.

[IDemo]

14. thanks for the link, that was interesting.

[mythyc]

8. we are witnessing the biggest crash and burn campaign collapse

in modern political history, not just in the U.S. but worldwide. Do you really think any donors in their right mind are going to fund her for a second try?

that's like going all-in on Enron the day after it folded (sorry for the cheezy illiteration, I couldn't help myself :D )...

[IDemo]

12. I think enough of her current followers might come back to encourage her

But no, I don't believe she can ultimately re-invent herself strongly enough to make her next attempt any more successful. If neither Obama or Edwards makes another attempt, however, she may not need as strong a campaign to win. Just a smarter one.

[Cha]

15. Well, welcome to DU..

mythyc.

[mythyc]

21. thanks zidzi =) n/t

[grantcart]

10. Did you really think the Clintons wanted Kerry to win?

[progdog]

11. No flame here

I've posted this several times and I didn't get flamed, just ignored.
She wants to be able to say the dems missed their chance and four years later must chose her.

ps. I'm not new, just don't post much.

[blm]

16. Would Clintons sabotage Dem nominees just for another chance at the WH? YES!

Douglas Brinkley noted the 'backstabbing' in April 2004.
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

Bill turned his 3 week book tour in 2004 into a high profile "Defend Bush on Iraq from attacks on the left" tour.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


Anyone really want to keep pretending all these things just happened in a vacuum?

[progdog]

17. Thanks blm. n/t

[blm]

27. Thankyou for noticing. I know you don't post that often, so I feel honored.

.

[NorthernSpy]

20. they've proved over and over that they're not to be trusted...

So if we ever trust any of that bunch again, whatever happens next will be our own fault.

[TheDonkey]

18. HC will never be president.

She has shown this campaign she does not have the skill or temperament to reach the WH.

[Big Blue Marble]

19. That is exactly what I think is going on at this time.

She has nothing to lose in her estimation. She either takes him down now or McCain does later and she
wins either way. I do not think though that her standing in the party will stay constant.

Many will hold the Clintons responsible if Obama were to lose. And many more would be ready to
take his place in 2012. The end of the Clinton era is over no matter how this comes out.

[jmg257]

22. Never take your eyes off THE PRIZE, if not now (and obviously not), then 2012.

[Generator]

23. She and her hubby hired dear old Mark Penn YEARS ago

and he's done his best to turn the party rightward and thus destroy it for years. This Hillary candidacy is just icing on the cake. I would have had some great respect for Hillary if she would have stayed in the Senate and done something to rectify her vote on the war. Done something to make the country better. Instead it's the ego glory of being president. Whether this is true for Obama also, I'm not sure.


But goddamn it she already had her eight years in the white house. Hubris and ego. She deserves to lose this bid.

[SoxFan]

24. 2012

If the HRC 2012 scenario plays out and she runs against a President McCain or a VP Sanford/Watts/Rice/Portman, she is in for a rude awakening. This time around, a lot of potential candidates were spooked and took a pass. That won't be the case if there is a next time. Mark Warner, Evan Bayh, Russ Feingold, Brian Schweitzer, Kathleen Sebelius, Janet Napolitano, and Martin O'Malley will be far less deferential to a damaged Clinton.

[Obamaman2008]

25. Problem is, nobody will vote for her anymore, she is damaged goods

Nobody wants her as President. She is bye-bye.

[Medusa]

26. The Clintons are all about themselves, fuck the party

it amazes me that the people here who support HRC claim that it's the Obama supporters who are ripping the party apart right now. It's not. It's Bill and Hillary and their devious desire to win the White House at ANY cost.