The Obama movement seems largely based on "people hate Hillary"

[DemGa]

A movement of "hope and change," with vitriolic disdain for Hillary Clinton as its philosophical foundation -- that's an extraordinarily weak and corrupted place to start.

Combine that with Obama's inexperience -- and this could truly be a disaster in the making.

Okay attack, but this is the truth as I see it.

[fadedrose]

1. Not so much "hate," more like "tired of" (nt)

[faithfulcitizen]

59. Yes exactly, and not just her, but all those like her (and there are many)

[MyNameGoesHere]

101. Wonder why "tired" comes out hateful then? n/t

[fadedrose]

108. "frustrated" tired only sounds hateful

Those of us who feel we've had enough of Bushes and Clintons just can't understand why some people want to perpetuate this nonsense.

[MyNameGoesHere]

120. I can understand "tired" "frustrated" but those seem to die

at the login page here. Instead it is replaced by "hate" "loathing" "vile" In a way it makes me laugh. The candidate of change and all together and yes we can has support from some that are really just the opposite. Bizarro world indeed.

[roguevalley]

149. I find all these hillary hater and obama hater threads hateful.

[jgraz]

2. You need to take another look at "the truth"

Ask someone at an Obama rally and their response will likely be "Hillary who?" Obama is bringing in new people to the process and building a real movement. How can you not see that?

[DemGa]

5. One of Obama's main arguments has been anti-Hillary sentiment

Surely you must recognize this fact.

And people not even knowing who Hillary is at an Obama rally should not give you comfort -- they'll forget Obama just as easily.

[jgraz]

Really? Which part of his speech was anti-Hillary?

Can you point to a single quote?

[DemGa]

24. ......

Certainly you must be aware by now of Obama's statements on the "divisiveness" of Hillary - she is "polarizing," will "unite the opposition," etc, etc.

Those type of statements back up my original post completely -- "vote for me, people hate Hillary."

[jgraz]

29. Quote, please. With link.

I call bullshit. I've seen his past four national speeches and he's said nothing of the kind. Show us a quote or go away.

[earthside]

45. A statement of fact.

Clinton(s) has 47 percent negatives with the general electorate.

To state that she is divisive and polarizing is simply a statement of fact -- no matter who says it.

St. Petersburg Times

We looked at the times the USA Today/Gallup Poll asked voters whether they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Hillary Clinton, going back to January 2007. Her negative percentage fluctuated between 40 and 52, but the average of 21 polls came out to 47.

When nearly half of voting American doesn't like a person just to start with, then prospects for success in the end are pretty slim.

An 'uncomfortable truth' perhaps, but truth nevertheless.

[CatnHat]

140. I've seen

Obama use statments like that as well. You are 100% correct. Yeah, the great "uniter" and vessel of hope, my ass. If anyone is destroying the base of the democratic party, it's pretty clear it's Obama. So he's brought new "democrats" in; so what, but he's loosing big with the base values of the democratic party. Just quit talking about unity, it's pure hype.

[Arkana]

71. Wh...what?

Where in ANY of his speeches has he specifically referenced any sort of anti-Hillary sentiment?

[DemGa]

78. He makes many statements besides his "speeches"

There are many statements from Obama referencing Hillary's high "negatives." This is easy to find and should be common knowledge by now.

I have not scrutinized his speeches.

[jgraz]

86. You haven't scrutinized shit.

Find a quote or go away.

[DemGa]

95. I'm not collecting links for you -- you go away

I'm through talking to you.

[yellowcanine]

103. No that is not how it works. You make the claim, You back it up. You have zero credibility

until you do.

[yellowcanine]

100. "This is easy to find" If so easy and so many, why haven't you cited ONE?

You will not be taken seriously until you stop with the general assertions and give some relevant citations that hold up to scrutiny. It is obviously not common knowledge so you will have to provide the citations.

"I have not scrutinized his speeches."

Understatement of the day. I'd be willing to bet that you have not READ a single Obama speech transcript, let alone "scrutinized" any. Come on, admit it, you "winged" the whole thing, didn't you?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

83. people who vote for Obama are not thinking of Clinton

they are thinking Dem vs GOP

[Straight Shooter]

62. You're saying Obama supporters are so politically ignorant, they don't recognize the name Hillary?

Okaaaaay.

[jgraz]

98. Oh god. Another person who doesn't understand metaphor

:eyes:

[Straight Shooter]

106. Oh, I understand metaphor quite well, if it's used appropriately. n/t

[jgraz]

107. So...you were being deliberately obtuse in order to score cheap political points?

OK, then.

[Straight Shooter]

122. Let it go. n/t

[bellasgrams]

73. If they say Hillary who they shouldn't be voting.

[jgraz]

89. Do you understand the concept of "speaking figuratively"?

:eyes:

[femrap]

134. If his fans don't know who Hillary is,

then I am really worried. Have they been living under rocks or are they truly that ignorant? And this 'movement'....it appears to be idol based.

And jgraz, each of us have 'Truth.' You're not the only one.

[Lerkfish]

3. since the status quo is unacceptable, claiming to be an expert in the status quo

is not a winning position.

the "inexperience" argument from clinton's abysmal campaign gurus is playing into Obama's strength.


not that you, Clinton or Mark Penn will every really understand how badly her campaign was mismanaged.

but ultimately, she's losing because she failed and was not interested in gauging the temperature of the actual voters.


you can whine about it all you want, but that's the actual truth.

[DemGa]

9. Hillary's campaign has nothing to do with Obama's inexperience

He's barely a three year Senator -- fact.

[Lerkfish]

26. completely.missing.the.point as usual

and as I predicted.

take off your tunnel vision blinders and reread my post.


sorry I can't make it more clear -- the problem with her campaign is it fails to recognize and stop LOSING strategies.

[DemGa]

41. It is you who misses the point

I'm not talking about the efficacy of pointing out Obama's inexperience for the Clinton campaign -- I'm talking about Obama's inexperience.

[Lerkfish]

54. the media is the message

the fact that you cannot let go of this losing issue is exactly the point: it is your inability to move on from a losing strategy.

take a breath, take a step back, look at the gestalt of this failed strategy and ask yourself why it is a failed strategy.


now ask yourself, when Obama becomes the nominee, are you going to be able to get behind him and completely support him. If so, that means you have to accept that this argument is unimportant. If not then you have no business calling yourself a democrat.


its zen, man, you're a fish in a small bowl. Step outside the bowl and realize the water you're swimming in is filthy.

[DemGa]

65. You won't address the original subject and accuse me of a narrow view?

And then hurl insults? This is not a clever style of debate you are using -- it is "sidestepping." Very dishonest.

[Lerkfish]

68. no, you're just not getting my point at all

sorry.

I'm commenting on the strategy of your attack. You're expecting me to respond to the attack itself. I'm pointing out that the nature of your attack is backfiring on you, and that you cannot let it go because you don't want to assess the validity or relevance of the attack.

I understand your point, I'm just saying its not helping you. You're not getting my point at all.

And frankly, I'm not insulting you to say you cannot look outside your bubble to understand my point, I'm actually trying to help you.

but I see that's pointless excercise.


good luck with your attack strategy. I hope you hold it to your breast with some comfort when your candidate loses.

[DemGa]

70. Again you miss the point -- it was not an attack, but an observation

Good luck pursuing truth through supposition.

[Lerkfish]

135. sad, truly sad

well, good luck to you.

[bvar22]

147. Here is another "observation".

Hillary has HIGH negatives today.
Hillary had HIGH negatives before Campaign 2008 started.

This is a documented, observable FACT that is unrelated to Obama.

Obama did NOT create the HIGH negatives for Hillary.
Hillary would STILL have HIGH negatives even if Obama had never been born.

[DemGa]

151. I said nothing about Obama creating high "negatives" for Hillary

I said Obama used those "negatives" created by years of vicious right-wing slander against Hillary -- Pure treachery.

[bvar22]

153. So talking about Reality & Truth is off limits in a Political campaign?

:shrug:

[DemGa]

156. Depends

Is it honest to use the effects of the opposition's slander against a fellow Democrat? Obama uses the fact that he hasn't been through it himself as a positive -- But maybe we just have a different standard.

"I think it's very hard for Senator Clinton to break out of the politics of the past 15 years," which were divisive and included the Democrats' loss of control in Congress, Obama told a woman who asked how to convince others they should vote for him. Clinton "starts off with 47 percent of the country against her," he told 3,000 people at a high school gym in Alexandria, Va. "That's a hard place to start."

[Joshua N]

158. She does it all the time

When she says he is all talk and is not experienced. The difference is that she is not telling the truth and he is. Either way, though, pointing out real weaknesses in a candidate is fine. Encouraging hatred is not.

He did not make her a polarizing figure nor has he done anything to make her more hated. So what is the criticism?

[yellowcanine]

105. GOALPOST SHIFT ALERT. Suddenly it is not about hating Hillary, it is about Obama's "inexperience."

Not very subtle either.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

4. she earned a great deal of emnity

over the years, and has only herself to blame for the 47% who don't trust or like her and who would never vote for her, according to the latest polls.

Zoe baird, Janet Reno, Lani Guinier, her incredibly inept health care project (destroying a bilateral plan in the process and threatening two close allies and would be friends in the senate), and more, all caused many in this country to find her unacceptable.

[bunnies]

6. Yes. The world revolves around Hillary.

No Obama supporters actually support *him*... we're all just anti-Hillary. You figured us out.
:sarcasm:

[Darth_Kitten]

14. You don't get it. You know it all.

:sarcasm:

Be prepared one day for a big wake up call.

[bowens43]

7. Nonsense.

It's not a hate of Hillary on a personal level, it is extreme distaste for what she and her generation of DLC politicians represent.

BTW , Obama has at least as much experience if not more then Hillary but don't let truth stand in the way of your rhetoric.

[DemGa]

12. You conflate the right-wing attacks on Hillary WITH Hillary herself

Will you do the same for St. Obama??

[dmallind]

8. In all fairness, so would the McCain campaign have been

had she been the likely nominee.

If it works, it's better to find out in the primaries than the general surely?

[liberalnurse]

10. Oprah's true sentiment of American.

Oprah hates being black thus she created this Obamarite movement with her billions. Oprah is the Queen of all Special Intrest...hers.

[Cassandra]

18. Wow!

What are you smoking? I'd like to avoid it.

[liberalnurse]

25. Oh, you know it's so very true.

For Chrissake, she goes to Africa for their children, build schools and who know what all; while, in America, school books are xerox copied so the lessons can be read at home. Listen to her some time............Oprah is closet racist at heart.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. She hates being black, yet she helps out Africans?

:rofl:

[GoldieAZ49]

33. That is so pathetic, you really cannot do better than this?

loser mentality deserves to lose

[AX10]

124. I would argue that she loves being a powerful woman.

President Hillary Clinton would without question eclipse her power.

[AX10]

125. I would argue that she loves being a powerful woman.

President Hillary Clinton would without question eclipse her power.

[Forkboy]

154. You're clearly deranged and unhinged at this point. Get help.

[Darth_Kitten]

11. Anywhere in the world, Hillary would be a welcome change.....

but not in the U.S. where some (probably too many)people have this strange, jealous notion that she's this evil person. She gets slammed for anything she says, yet it's terrible to hold Obama accountable for ANYTHING.

Thing is, it has probably NOTHING to do with the candidate, people are just projecting too much.

[DemzRock]

17. That's true.

But if Obama gets elected, we will eventually see him get the same treatment. Wait, he will be treated worse right after the convention, if he's the nominee. The corporate media is just salivating to tear him to shreds!!!! You Obama-philes are in for a treat.

Still if he's the nominee, he has my vote.

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. More like in for a rude awakening, they are. Then the real crying on DU begins.

[Dogmudgeon]

102. What he said.

:thumbsup:

This is how The Powers That Be work. And they are going to LOVE working on Barack Obama, whether in victory or in defeat.

It's only February. There are still over 100 million unbroken hearts and unstolen votes.

--p!

[robbedvoter]

150. It's only February. There are still over 100 million unbroken hearts and unstolen votes. "

Oh, god, you brought me to tears with that sentence...:cry:

[jgraz]

19. Good point. Let's find another country for her to rule!

I hear Pakistan might be in the market for a Queen.

[goldcanyonaz]

13. That's the common theme around here.

[sfam]

15. 20,000 seat arenas filled because they hate Hillary? I don't think so...

No, its more on the issue that people LOVE Obama...You don't get that much excitement for a candidate simply for hating the other person.

[Yael]

27. If the motivation was Hill-hate, people would just stay home, not waste their time

and vote against her.

Hard for people to grasp that the universe doesn't revolve around Mrs. Clinton and that some of us may be voting FOR a candidate as opposed to AGAINST one.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfam]

91. I'm at a loss to see how my comment was spam...

But whatever. Your definition must be different than mine...

[doni_georgia]

16. No anti-Hillary sentiment here - although I think her handlers suck

I'm very anti whoever is running her campaign - won't deny that. I think Hillary is a caring, intelligent person who is capable of really great things. I personally think she stands a much greater chance of being a historic, groundbreaking senator than president though. Her timing is off. This isn't the right year for her. She is in the position to replace Kennedy as the party's leader in the senate. Presidents come and go, but senators have the opportunity of shaping things for years to come.

[Barack_America]

43. Ain't that the truth. They are god awful.

But their failures are her failures. Why could she not recognize the errors in their strategies? A big issue that has been discussed here is the failure of her campaign to bring grassroots organizers into the fold. Shouldn't she have at least realized that she's not meeting with or hearing about grassroots efforts enough? Did she actually sign-off on that "Hillary and the Band" piece of shit? Why was Bill allowed off-leash for as long as he was? When her handlers suggested they introduce race-baiting expressions or that ridiculous Xerox line into her speeches, why did she agree? And the money?

She apparently wasn't aware that these moves were errors or she was powerless to stop them.

Either way, these mistakes tell me that I don't want her in the White House.

[doni_georgia]

141. I agree - inability to manage a campaign is serious concern eom

[John Q. Citizen]

20. I don't know about the campaign, I just know the people at the coffee shop don't much like her.

[Barack_America]

93. Well, you're obviously hanging out with "latte liberals" then!

;)

[Barack_America]

21. I don't think that's fair to say...

But many people in the Midwest and South (particularly white males) do harbor a hatred of Hillary, formed back in the '90's. And that hatred was always going to be her downfall, particularly against candidates with Independent appeal (i.e. both Obama and McCain).

Most Obama supporters truly support Barack. But I guess it would be fair to say his support might be bolstered by awareness of Hillary's inviability as a general election candidate. I know in my mind I truly believe that we either nominate Obama, or lose the election to McCain.

[Yael]

22. The Obama movement *IS* largely based on "people like Obama"

[GoldieAZ49]

23. 20,000 or more in city after city - for Hillary Haters, I think not

if that is their only motivation they will just vote against her, they are not going to go wait for hours to get into a crowded arena to hear Obama speak for 45 minutes.

Hillary is not the center of attention.

[DemGa]

31. They are there to see a rock star

that's true. But the philosophical roots of Obama's message are found in a simple premise: He can solve problems because Hillary is despised.

[DemzRock]

28. Fast Forward to 2012 if BO gets elected

We will probably still be in Iraq. There will be fake scandal after another ala Whitewater. He will be hounded and torn to shreds and lied about in the corporate media. The GOP will have sent one Impeachment bill up after another. The Demz will have lost seats in 2010. His wife and family will be called names and face the same thing Hillary is, if she ever tries to run for office.

Remember what goes around comes around.

(PS: I will vote for him if he gets the nominiation.)

[cooolandrew]

30. Didn't right wingers say this for 7 years oh you just hate George Bush. DU posters are smarter than

that. I think many have highlighted the various reason. The Clintons close friendship with the Bushes, the very negative campaign and now with the plagiarism charge hypocirisy. sy. Barack is offering a clear alternative to that that, which will give us progression and not further gridlock.

[BenDavid]

32. People are saying that if Obama is the nominee that the Clinton

supporters will vote for Obama, while saying that Obama supporters might not support Clinton. As a Clinton supporter I'm having a hard time warming up to Obama. Many of us really like Hillary and Bill Clinton and we want to go back to the days of peace and prosperity and real solutions to real problems.

So when Obama surrogates call Bill Clinton a racist, we resent it. When Obama says that Hillary is in the pocket of the lobbyists, we resent it. When we hear Obama surrogates talking about the Clintons the way the Republicans talk about the Clintons, we really resent it.

Many of us are very deeply offended and I'm trying to like Obama and it's just not happening. I would warn Obama supporters that being anti-Clinton filled with hate might result in a Republican president.

[cooolandrew]

38. Hillary admitted she took lobbyist money. The meida cried racism.

[cooolandrew]

39. Hillary admitted she took lobbyist money. The media cried racism.

[Raffi Ella]

42. I feel that exact same sentiment BenDavid.

I too am deeply offended and feel at this point I could not be a part of Obama's campaign if he should win the nomination.

This isn't a game to me.Character and integrity matter to me as much as experience does.Hillary made me Proud last night,proud of The Party and Proud of her.I would feel immense respect for her if she were my President.

I sadly can not say the same about Obama.

[Lerkfish]

55. so your'e saying you'll vote republican if your candidate is not the nominee?

sure as hell sounds like it.

Hmmm... so, clinton supporters are one hair's breadth away from voting republican

what does that tell you?

[bellasgrams]

94. Lerk-it should tell you, that we can't stand BO and I think a lot of

it comes from the mean, hateful people that he has attracted. If that's the way it's going to be when he gets in, I want no part of it.

[Lerkfish]

136. enough for you to vote republican?

honestly?

I remember clintonites here threatening to tombstone any DUer who did not bow down to their queen.

but its ok if you threaten to vote republican? on a democratic site? really?


wow. just wow.

[GoldieAZ49]

58. the right has coalesced behind McCain and he has experience

which will count in the GE

Obama still has a tough campaign ahead of him to win the election

useless Clinton loyalty will result in a President McCain, don't expect a thank you note from him

[bellasgrams]

84. Ben I think you're right

[NoodleyAppendage]

34. If your premise is correct, then WHY IN HELL WOULD DEMS support her for a general election run???

Vitriolic distain on the Democratic side is concerning, but when combined with the homicidal distain on the Republican side, this spells CERTAIN FAILURE for Hillary in a general election. So, my question would be, "why not be pragmatic about it and support the candidate with very low negatives and a better shot at winning the general election?" It is about winning the WH, right?

J

[npincus]

35. Not true... only political junkies like us are polarized

the majority of Dems are happy with their candidates, would be content with either, and are deciding based upon who they believe is most electable. First, it seemed like Hillary, and now Dems looking at the polls feel like Obama is the one to beat McCain. My family (Mom, sisters, their husbands, a nephew) all voted for Hillary, but would be happy with Obama.

The blogosphere may be quite polarized, but the majority of Dems just want to kick Repub ass next November and are looking for the person they feel an do it. My observation.

[scheming daemons]

36. "this is the truth as I see it."

You haven't accurately "seen" the truth in this forum in a single post yet.


20,000 people don't wait in lines for hours to hear Obama speak because they "hate Hillary".
That's nonsense.

[Renew Deal]

37. How many Obama supporters have you met in person?

I've met many. Most love Obama. All those new voters coming out are coming out for him, not against Hillary. There are people out there that Hillary too. It's better that they vote against her now than in the GE.

[cooolandrew]

48. Yes, those that genuinely hate her are onthe right. On the left we disagree with policy.

[jasmine621]

49. I know personally over two dozen. Almost all say they despise Hillary.

The white males especially. The blacks I know just want a black to be President, they know little about politics or current events.

[Renew Deal]

61. You need new friends.

It says a lot about you.

[bellasgrams]

97. You nailed it jasmine I just didn't want to say it. Plus he's got

the gullible youth vote

[NC_Nurse]

44. I don't hate Hillary, I just don't want her as Pres.

I wish her well and hope she stays in the Senate for a LONG time. :-)

[Egnever]

46. And that makes hillary a stronger candidate how?

I disagree with your assertion but it certainly is an influencing factor. The fact that such hate for her exists should be enough to make people stand up and take notice that she is a flawed candidate and should not be the Dem nominee. She starts off with a huge deficit on the republican side and by your accounts a huge deficit on the dem side as well.

She continues to be the only chance we have of losing this thing. If her actions today are any indication she will do everything in her power to ensure that loss.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Bullshit.

You are confusing activists with regular voters, for one thing. Poll after poll shows that the majority of Dems would be happy with either on the ticket. You have a large percentage of undecided voters making up their minds at the last minute.

Secondly, while Clinton inarguably does have high negatives (though not among Democrats who give her an 85% approval rating), it's also true that a lot of people just plain like Obama.

As for experience, I'm not real impressed with Clinton's. If that were soooo important, then why isn't Richardson our nominee? He had the most, and the most varied, experience of all the candidates.

[DemGa]

56. I'm not confusing "activists with regular voters"

I know the majority of Dems have a favorable attitude toward the Clintons.

But Obama himself uses Hillary's high "negatives" with REPUBLICANS to his advantage -- all part of his "unity" government. This is what I mean when I say the philosophical underpinning are flawed.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

63. He's right. You can't win with just Dems.

You need a lot of independents and a maybe some moderate Rs. You also need a candidate who (sorry to say this) won't mobilize the conservative base to come out and vote against them.

Frankly, I think the underpinning of your argument is flawed. You want to put up a candidate who is hated by half the American public, and have her scrape out (if we're lucky) a 50.1% majority. With half the country still hating her. Let's not even talk about the effect on down ticket races.

[Umbram]

87. Don't bother argue with the OP

It requires no small amount of voodoo to connect the dots (assuming you are willing to ignore all of the fallacies.)

It goes something like this:

1.) H.C. (like many icons of each party) has high nationwide negatives.

2.) H.C. high negatives were manufactured by the Republicans using sexist propaganda.

3.) B.O pointing out that H.C. has high negatives (ie. less likely to win in the GE.) is his endorsement and adoption of all Republican and sexist sentiments ever leveled at H.C.

If you want to boil it down to reality, it is this:

1.) H.C. is my candidate.
2.) B.O. is a person who criticizes my candidate.
3.) Sexist is a person who criticizes my candidate.
Therefore, B.O. is a sexist.

There's really no logic, just a boatload of bias and enough fallacious reasoning to keep the bias going.

Oh, the "logic" doesn't apply the other way around either...oddly enough.

[bellasgrams]

99. the cat-Richardson was my 1st choice but I don't think he had

enough name recognition. Just like when Wes Clark ran.

[nomorewhopper]

51. i don't know how people could ignore hillary's negatives

we knew how many people hated hillary from the get-go.

as much as she has run a terrible campaign (she has), it might have been a pipe dream to think that she would be elected president.

[whatchamacallit]

52. Always the same old shit - "You don't love my candidate because you're defective..."

Starry-eyed kids, guilt ridden whites, cult members, HILL HATERS... give it a rest. He simply beat her and the sooner you accept reality the better off we'll all be.

[Marrah_G]

53. I would say most supporters do not hate Hillary- Just the loudest and most obnoxious ones do.

[burythehatchet]

57. "truth as I see it"...therein lies the basic problem with your analysis

you are not objective nor are you especially observant. Therefore the "truth as I see it" is not truth at all. Rather, it is a product of anger, frustration and desperation.

[DemGa]

66. And you back up your observation with ....nothing?

Seriously, you back up your regard of my objectivity with weak supposition? If you have nothing to say, why say it?

And I left "the truth as I see it" merely as an opening for debate.

[burythehatchet]

79. I've read your previous posts, and that's really all I have to go on. n/t

[yellowcanine]

111. POT KETTLE BLACK ALERT.

Glass houses, stones, etc.
"And the donkey talks about ears" - my favorite from Columbia

[Occam Bandage]

60. So wait. Is it a pro-BO cult, or an anti-HC hatefest? Now I'm confused.

[burythehatchet]

64. It's a "cult-fest" n/t

[Occam Bandage]

67. Cultfest '08! Woo!

[burythehatchet]

81. 400 kegs of German beer and 20 bands!! Being a cultist has it's privileges. n/t

[Radical Activist]

69. No. We want a Democrat who finally stands for Democratic values.

Some of us are sick of triangulation and long list of empty promises not backed by any kind of statement of values or philosophy. That Clinton/DLC approach has been killing the party.

[bellasgrams]

104. So Radical, if you want someone who stands for Democratic

values then why are you supporting the guy who praises Reagan? Why are you supporting the guy who chose Lieberman for a mentor? Why are you voting for a guy who can't really define what he stands for without flip-flopping when he 'accidentally misspeaks?

[Radical Activist]

139. Typical response.

All the silly attacks about Obama not being liberal never deal with his voting record or where he stands on the issues. I'm sorry if you couldn't understand what he was saying about Reagan, but it doesn't make Obama conservative. I would love to have a Democratic President who brings in major change, as Reagan did, rather than a place holder like Bill Clinton whose entire legacy was wiped away after a year of the Bush administration. I don't want to waste a rare chance to elect a Democratic President on another status quo panderer.

[eissa]

72. I don't hate Hillary at all

She's just not my preferred candidate. I'll gladly back her up if she is the nominee. Can we stop with these awful generalizations now?

[DemGa]

74. I know not nearly all do

My point is that Obama set the tone for this disdain of Hillary in his campaign, by playing to her so-called "high negatives." Mr. Obama brought this perception front and center with many of his statements.

[yellowcanine]

117. There you go again. Citation???

[sfam]

145. So if you keep repeating the "Obama caused the disdain" line, does that make it true?

I think not.

Hillary caused the Patriots to lose to the Giants
Hillary caused the Patriots to lose to the Giants
Hillary caused the Patriots to lose to the Giants
Hillary caused the Patriots to lose to the Giants
Hillary caused the Patriots to lose to the Giants
Hillary caused the Patriots to lose to the Giants

Do you believe my argument now?

[miceelf]

75. Bollocks

Some of us actually like Obama, you know. And I liked Clinton fine when this whole mess started. I'll probably like her again after I stop seeing Mark Penn on my TV screen.

And all of this talk about Obama's experience. He has more legislative experience than she does.

[kid a]

76. winner: most ridiculous post today

I see hundreds of Obama supports and volunteers a week.

Don't flatter Clinton that much...sure we are focussed on beating her now, but our goal is WAY bigger than HIllary Clinton.

Thank You

[yellowcanine]

80. "seems largely based" Not much for going out on the limb are you?

Fairly weak words for such a provocative premise. Maybe because you cited absolutely no data to support the assertion?

FWIW I do not hate Hillary. I think she would make a good President. But I think she will be tougher to elect (still likely though) and I think Obama will be easier to elect and will make a great President.

[DemGa]

92. Disdain for Hillary is continuous

on large Dem sites like this one, and in the media. As Obama himself has worked to foster this perception -- no large stretch here to make the observation.

[yellowcanine]

96. "Obama himself has worked to foster this perception" How so?

Come on. You assert again with no relevant citations. How has Obama worked to foster a perception of disdain for Hillary? Please be specific, no more generalities.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

82. Bullshit. Hillary is just mediocre. Obama is superior.

[krabigirl]

114. um, ok.

[rodeodance]

85. I think that was demonstrated just now with the death of officer--even before

it was announced she died, so many jumped in saying Hillary would take advantage of the situation.

it went on and on a few threads.

One Obama person has apologized saying she will take some time off. I applaud her for that. But there were others involved.

What has this board become--the officer was hurt--yet the hurtful digs continued.


Peace to the family--from all of us.

[Guava Jelly]

88. I don't hate Hillary

..

[GodlessBiker]

90. No. For the first time in my life, I am actually voting *for* someone.

Dislike for the other candidate(s) has nothing to do with it.

[AtomicKitten]

109. Nah, it's just a bonus.

[mtnsnake]

110. K&R

[AlertLurker]

112. I disagree. It's more based on absolute bullshit and a little pixie dust.

I don't appreciate Hillary's message, either, but at least it is HERS (ok - hers and Bill's).

Does Barack Obama have an original idea at all? Something that wasn't stolen from Deval Patrick or watered down from Dennis Kucinich or John Edwards?

I am amazed at the number of zombie children from planet Barack Obama kiddies who cannot recognize his complete insubstantiality for what it is: Plain ol' smelly BULLSHIT.

[ProSense]

113. No, it's based on

competence

[krabigirl]

115. Some of it does seem that way, like a hate-fest. Makes me sad again to be American.

Why hate anyone? Just say you prefer Obama, that's fine, but some of the stuff I've heard Obama supporters say about Hillary is just like I'd see on Free Republic.

[yellowcanine]

119. The OP is suggesting it is Obama himself who is promoting the "disdain for Hillary."

Not posters here on DU. And refuses to give any citations supporting the claim.

[redqueen]

116. I don't see that at all.

I know that for some of his supporters, that's their main reason for supporting him, but I doubt it's very many at all... it's definitely not my reason for supporting him.

[AX10]

118. I know of too many Dems who loved the Clinton's...

until Obama came up. Now they hate both of them just as much as the right wing does.
:argh:
I will seriously consider writing her in for POTUS if she is not the nominee.

[Kahuna]

121. The soap opera drama DOES wear one down after a while. nt

[AngryOldDem]

123. I don't hate HRC, I just don't trust her; to me she is ultimate panderer.

In fact, there is an ad running here in Ohio where she champions the poor second-shift worker, ending with the line, "She's worked the night shift, too."

Whenever I see it, I literally want to :puke: Like she has ANY idea what it is like to work, let alone live, in this state, hit hard by outsourcing, busted unions, you name it.

[paulk]

126. that is a lot of it

a short time on this board shows that.

[noiretextatique]

127. i don't think obama hates hillary

though clearly some of his supporters do. clearly people want change after 8 years of bush's failures and incompetence, and obama has successfully memed that sentiment.

[Orangepeel]

128. No, although there are plenty of people who hate "politics as usual"

Obama is a politician -- and a very, very good one based on what I've seen in this race. But he has the unique ability to excite and inspire people who don't care about politics. That's a very rare thing and the reason that he has been able to almost defeat another politician who started with much more name recognition, money, and entrenched political support.

Granted, there are many people in the country who hate Clinton, largely for unfounded and sexist reasons (the blind hate some people feel for her is different than people who might disagree with her or think that she is not credible). And, some of those people are voting for Obama (although most are voting in the R primaries or staying home). But it is a small slice of Obama's support. Obama's support is unprecedented, which is why it has caught the Clinton campaign flat-footed.

[Cameron27]

129. I think there's a lot of that,

especially on DU, but some of the worst offenders have ALWAYS been the worst offenders, so it's like water off a duck's back at this point. It's so predictable, that it's become laughable.

I'll tell you something though, I am truly sick and tired of Obama's inspirational BS. I wish he'd knock it off, and stick to the issues, and then maybe I'd find something about him that inspires me to do some real campaigning for him if he's the nominee.

[GOTV]

130. I don't hate Hillary but I'm worried that many people do....

... I'd still vote for her in the primary if I didn't like Obama better. If Hillary wins the nomination I'll vote for her in the GE as well.

[polichick]

131. If that's really the way you see it...

You need to look at what's happening in this country again, and much more carefully ~ without being influenced by DU.

[totodeinhere]

132. You may be surprised to know that...

many of we Obama supporters like and respect Senator Clinton very much, and we wish her well. For instance, if she doesn't make it this time I would love to see her get a run at the White House in some future election. She is only 61 years old and she should be viable for at least the next two general election cycles. In the mean time, she can continue to make contributions as a US senator or perhaps as VP.

Just because you support one candidate doesn't mean that you hate the other. However, there is no doubt that Senator Clinton is the victim of much hate and vitriol, but IMO it is mostly the Repukes who hate her, not her fellow Democrats and Obama supporters. And you better believe that if Obama gets the nomination, which now seems likely, much of that hate will be transferred to him.

[jlake]

133. I agree. And I think that *all* of the Republican support for Obama is fueled by hatred for

Hillary ..... and in the GE, they will transfer their hatred towards Obama and fall into line behind McCain.

[eShirl]

137. it can't be because he actually inspires us, oh no

get a grip

[Lerkfish]

138. this is all they have anymore

cult! fairy tale! he's empty suit! he's a plaigarist! His wife is unpatriotic! He's racially divisive! he has no experience! Students illegally voted for him! he cheated on the elections!

and now:

you're all haters because you don't listen to our hatred of your candidate! how dare you not join in our hatred? that means you're haters!!!


for real!

[zulchzulu]

142. Whatever "hate" for Hillary there is has been earned

It's not that people "hate" Hillary or the Clintons, it's that they had their chance. We need new leadership.

As for Obama, he has more legislative experience than Hillary... so the "inexperience" meme is bogus.

[KaptBunnyPants]

143. Your wrong.

Obama has created a real movement here. There's simply not enough "Hillary Hate" in the Democratic Party to run a winning primary campaign on it. Obama has convinced a great many people with his vision of racial equity, a foriegn policy directed at confronting Al Queda instead of unrelated third parties, and post-partisan conflict resolution. I don't believe he can do the last one any more than George Bush could "change the tone in Washington", but he's selling it and people are buying.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

144. "The lesser of two evils" vote...

has been a mainstay of American politics as long as there have been elections. :shrug:

Do you have any idea how many people voted for John Kerry last time around not because they were thrilled with or inspired by him but because they simply despised Bush?? Was that wrong of them to do because it was a "weak and corrupt place to start"?

What we are experiencing now is just an intraparty version of that same phenomenon.

[Perry Logan]

146. Well said.

[blogslut]

148. I'm sorry you see it that way

I like Hillary. I am voting for Obama.

What I hate are haters of any sort.

[TheDonkey]

152. No, not really at all

Get you facts straight and perhaps go to an Obama rally before you start making shit up.

[mudesi]

155. I'm one of them

I don't like Obama all that much.

But I sure don't want to see Hillary Clinton win, not after her Iraq war vote.

[Joshua N]

157. Honestly, you can't get this excited and jubilant as his rallies get based on hate for Hillary. n/t

[_Wayne_]

159. It's a combination of the Nader 2000 retards and covert Repug Hillary-Haters