Trying to imagine a scenario where the people of Florida and Michigan would be pleased....

[DissentIsPatriotic]

with the DNC's decision to penalize the state parties by disenfranchising voters. Even if the race were not so close, or not so passion-inspiring, how could the DNC or state party be allowed to roll the dice with the voter's will. What was the state party thinking to risk their voters votes not counting? What was the DNC thinking to penalize the state parties by hurting voters. I'm not sure I understand why well-intentioned voters should be the pawn here. Can someone please explain? Thanks.


(Please note that I supported Edwards in the primary. I have been lurking around DU for over 4 1/2 years. I am not in any way trying to make this about a candidate, I just want a genuine answer.)

[Demeter]

1. They Were Thinking of Pulling a Fast One (Actually, More than One!)

And they got caught.

[LakeSamish706]

2. The State is at fault, not the DNC and the terms were fully understood when...

the dates were altered. I understand that the people of these states should be pissed, but there disatisfaction should be at the locals, not the DNC.

[DissentIsPatriotic]

5. Ok. I understand...

but why would the state feel entitled to risk the people's votes? What is the real motive? I've heard people say it means an influx of money, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

[VotesForWomen]

23. so you're OK with losing FL in the GE? nt

[crispini]

3. The state parties of both were asshats.

They tried to get more press and more money by moving their primaries up even though Dean told 'em not to. They did anyway and got their hands smacked. Voters need to be pissed at their state parties, not the national party.

[DissentIsPatriotic]

6. No doubt...

asshat is the word, Hugh Morans...but why take the chance? I still feel like there is something I'm missing.

[crispini]

11. They thought Dean would cave.

Also, the Florida Republicans really did this, and the Dems just went along. (State legislature, don'tcha know, does the primary date setting.)

I also don't think that ANYONE thought it would be this close. If it is NOT very close in the end, I think either nominee will seat their delegates regardless, as a nice gesture to those states.

However, if it IS close, then there will be a big fat fight between the candidate and the DNC. Hillary has already laid the groundwork to pressure Dean. And the Florida party is not really fond of Chairman Dean. :eyes:

Check out madfloridian's journal. She has TONS of good posts on this!

[DissentIsPatriotic]

12. Thanks!

[TAWS]

4. Split the Delegates

It's the only fair option.

[Mz Pip]

8. Or do

another primary vote with each candidate's name on the ballot.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[DissentIsPatriotic]

10. And shouldn't the state party pay for it. ...And not to be a nudge...

but again, why would they have taken this huge chance?

[LakeSamish706]

13. If it comes to seating them, I agree with you on splitting them... n/t

[MichiganVote]

7. Fault is only at issue when the candidate supporters are counting this for Clinton

or that for Obama. If you're a Clinton supporter you want the delegates. If you're an Obama supporter you want the uncommitted for O. but nada for Clinton. And so on and so forth.

About the only people talking about fault are the people outside of Michigan who did not vote in this primary. Those who chose not to vote to support the Democratic party may have been shortsighted and regret it.

If you're a Michigan voter, believe me when I say that the Dem. party had better settle the matter in favor of the voters or they can kiss Michigan good bye.

[dcindian]

9. it's like blaming the cop for the speeding ticket you just got.

Problem is not only did the drivers get the ticket but those who elected the drivers are paying the ticket.


In my opinion it is up to the people to place blame where it lies. If the people of Florida and Michigan would step up and place blame where it should be placed that would help the DNC save face and help. Then the DNC could redo the race's in those two states and perhaps refuse funding to the real drivers who created this mess.

[Florida22ndDistrict]

14. This is why...

The vote to move the primaries forward was bundled with the ban of touch screen voting and the requirement for paper trails. Many Florida voters chose to use absentee ballots with the introduction of electronic voting. In the 2006 election there were record numbers of absentee ballots and many voters demanded change. Rightfully, the Florida Democrats voted to move away from electronic voting, and being that they are far outnumbered by the republicans in this state had to except that the move of the primaries was bundle with the deal. No matter what they did they could not stop the republicans from passing the bill so they voted for it in agreement with the major parts of the bill a paper trail (paper ballots).

[PassingFair]

15. Nelson pushed HARD for the early primary.

He didn't CARE about his delegates being seated at the time.....

In Michigan, it was even WORSE because there was little to no
press coverage on the situation, so transparency was NIL.

By the time the rank & file got wind of it, there was nothing
we could do.

[Florida22ndDistrict]

16. ...

I voted for Howard Dean in the 2004 primaries even though the media had destroyed him by the time the Florida primaries finally rolled around and Kerry was already crowned, but he should have bent the rules for this one. All in all this will hurt the democratic party. Florida Democrats will lose some of the state government seats we have (there are not that many). We may lose our only Democrat senator. Closely contested congressional districts like mine may lose their seats to republicans. Florida being a swing state will most likely swing republican do to voter backlash. Smart, real smart. People keep telling Floridians that they made their bed, now lay in it. Well, the Democrats are making their bed as we speak, and come November they will have to lay in it.

[PassingFair]

17. I disagee with you. I don't see why the rules should have been "bent".

How would "going first" have changed anything vis a vis
losing your democrats?

I have followed the debacle pretty closely.
VERY closely.

Florida and Michigan race for pinks and then
whine when they have to hand over the keys!

I hope you manage to keep Wexler, though.

:)

[DissentIsPatriotic]

20. Thanks for a great answer! This makes sense. n/t

[stahbrett]

18. Cut delegates in half, then split rest of delegates 50/50 - good compromise

It punishes the states by taking away their ability to express their opinions one way or the other, while giving them a presence at the convention.

[Little Star]

19. Please see the link I have posted below......

Caucus to solve FL & MI problems? states, not caucus states. I know that Obama loves a caucus, but why should either state agree to become a caucus state. Re-do the primary, MAYBE, but caucus NO WAY!!!!!! Frig the $$, the DNC & State leaders screwed this up, not the voters in either state. They have a right to remain primary states. Wouldn't be fair to change the way a state votes and disenfranchise so many. Handicapped, elderly, shy people, people who do not have a good command of the english language, people who are private and don't want to wear their vote on their sleeve all get disenfranchised by a caucus. Primaries provide a much longer period of time during the day to cast a ballot, they provide privacy from spouses, neighbors, bosses,etc. Caucus only allows certain hour/hours to caucus, which leave many who cannot get there at that specific time disenfranchised. Primaries are the only real democratic way to select a nominee. Don't be bullied FL & MI keep your vote private, keep your states primary states, not only for your self but for others as well. Give em an inch they will take a mile.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4551048&mesg_id=4551048

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

21. The vote was a joke (MI), so let's have a cage match

Hillary, Barack, and EVOO. Winner take all.

Oh, you asked for a genuine answer? Don't seat the delegates. Don't seat the MI superdelegates. A hastily-rigged caucus is not the answer. There's too many questions on how to make another process "fair".

[VotesForWomen]

22. it was a collossal blunder by the DNC. now everybody's damned if they do, damned if they don't.