Fact Check: Clinton Does Not Lead in the Popular Vote

[ProSense]

Fact Check: Clinton Does Not Lead in the Popular Vote

11-Feb-08

”I’m still ahead in the popular vote and in delegates” - Hillary Clinton, Fox News, 2/11/08

Reality: Obama Leads in the Popular Vote

Obama Has Won the Combined Popular Vote in States Where It Has Been Tabulated

States..................Obama....................Clinton
Alabama................302,684..................226,454
Arizona..................171,368.................204,930
Arkansas.................79,411..................209,968
California............1,746,013................2,144,251
Colorado.................79,344....................38,587
Connecticut...........179,349..................164,831
Delaware.................51,124...................40,751
Georgia..................700,366.................328,129
Idaho......................16,880....................3,655
Illinois.................1,301,954.................662,845
Kansas....................27,172....................9,462
Louisiana................220,588................136,959
Massachussets........511,887.................704,591
Minn.....................141,527....................68,442
Missouri..................405,284.................395,287
Nebraska..................25,986...................12,396
New Hampshire........104,772..................112,251
New Jersey............492,186..................602,576
New Mexico.............67,531....................68,654
New York...............697,914...............1,003,623
North Dakota............11,625.....................6,948
Oklahoma...............130,087.................228,425
South Carolina........295,091.................141,128
Tennessee.............250,730.................332,599
Utah......................70,373...................47,719
Washington.............21,629.....................9,992
........................8,102,875...............7,905,453

Obama Has Won the Delegate Count in States Where the Popular Vote Was Not Tabulated

States..................Obama..................Clinton
Alaska.......................9...........................4
Iowa........................16.........................15
Maine.......................15..........................9
Nevada....................13.........................12
..............................53.........................40

[slick8790]

1. K&R!

[AtomicKitten]

2. she apparently uses fuzzy math in her computation

[MagsDem]

13. Fuzzy math like actually counting the Florida voters in the popular vote totals

And your theory is what? That they don't exist?

[AtomicKitten]

28. campaign, put all candidates names on the ballot, and re-vote

But Hilly doesn't want to do that. She's hoping to include totals where all names weren't on the ballot and in FL and MI where they weren't allowed to campaign. She is hoping to skate on name recognition only, and this after having signed on to the DNC plan beforehand, hoping to change the rules in the middle of the game.

Democracy. Look into it.

[MagsDem]

30. Obama was on the ballot in Florida

And he'd lose the do over as well. What's your beef? He got his ass kicked in FL, that's your beef.

[Alexander]

33. Florida broke the rules. Why don't you cry about it some more?

[MagsDem]

38. Who's crying about it? Obama people are the only ones crying about it

The voters did not break any rules. But we will all have to leave it to the DNC to work out those details. But the fact remains MORE PEOPLE have voted for Hillary than Obama. That's what the popular vote is.

[AtomicKitten]

34. Democracy -- look into it.

[MagsDem]

41. Democracy equals 2 million voters that came to the polls

... be dissappeared as if they didn't exist? Tell me, where did you get that definition of democracy? I'd love to see that. Because that sounds like the opposite of democracy to me.

I know! Let's consult a dictionary:

Democracy: free and equal representation of people: the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people

Shoot, looks like I'm right and you're full of shit. Better luck next time.

[AtomicKitten]

42. "Better luck next time" will be precisely what you will hear if she tries to press for votes

from an uncertified and disqualified election in MI and FL - something Hilly already signed onto beforehand.

Them's the rules. Sniveling isn't going to help.

:bounce:

[MagsDem]

44. Who's sniveling besides you folks

Let me try this more slowly for you....

1. I AM HAPPY TO LET THE DNC DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THE FL DELEGATES.

2. THAT DOESN'T CHANGE THE "POPULAR VOTE"

Was that slow enough for you?

[mathewsleep]

3. *bling*

so many jems today.

[southern_dem]

4. they include MI and FL, even though those aren't counting

otherwise, her argument falls flat on its face

[Usrename]

9. Edwards and Obama were not on the ballot in MI.

Why would she count MI?

[City Lights]

5. Thanks, ProSense!

:bounce:

[ingac70]

6. Bookmarking this....

for the next liar.

[MagsDem]

16. You're the next liar....So go check your book and make note....

Obama is pretending FL voters don;t exist. She won Fl by 300K votes. You do know what the term popular vote means, don't you?

[ingac70]

19. Florida made the choice...

not to count in the primary this year.

[MagsDem]

24. Do you understand what the term "popular vote" means?

Let me help you: "the result of the votes of the eligible voters" Are you saying Fl has no eligible voters? Whether the DNC decides to seat delegates based on the popular vote or not, they are still eligible voters and 2 million of them voted. She won by 300K.

[ingac70]

39. Florida does not count...

just like MI.. the candidates did not get to campaign. Those contests were beauty contests based solely on name recognition.

You need to choke it up and realize they are not a factor in this race.

[ingac70]

55. Oh joy!...

He stomped her so bad tonight, that Fl and Michigan really don't matter. Guess who has the popular vote lead?

:rofl:

[rinsd]

7. Last I checked FL also tabulated its popular vote.

[MagsDem]

12. Yeah, the Obama web site is simply lying

But we all know that, even the Obamaniacs.

[rinsd]

15. Do myself and every real Hillary supporter here a favor and STFU.

Seriously your gasoline on the fire act in the last week or so is not appreciated.

[MagsDem]

25. How about you fuck off instead?

Thanks. :)

[rinsd]

40. If you had been in the trenches since last summer I could shake it off as frustration

But the division sowed seems way too timed.

[MagsDem]

43. Oh please I started posting because of these obnoxious

Obama people. Did you read up thread? The new definition of democracy is pretending that 2 million voters in Florida don't exist, and didn't come to the polls and vote.

Now what other group of people in this country have a penchant for making up their own definitions for words that mean the opposite of the actual definition? Here's a hint: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/22/161145/320

You want to put up with it, go ahead. I have no intention of doing so.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

36. Agreed. Nothing but vitriol -- all the time.

[Diane R]

8. How is Washington State calculated? More than 200K turned out to caucus, and he got 68%.

[mohc]

10. Also

Some of those caucus numbers are precinct delegate counts, not popular vote. Washington, for example, had over 200,000 votes in their caucus, not 30,000.

[MagsDem]

11. Only if you pretend FL and MI voters don't exist

[Independent-Voter]

For all intents and purposes, they don't right now

Bitch to your state delegates if you're not happy with it.

[MagsDem]

17. They may not translate to delegates, but they count as part of the

popular vote.

[JimGinPA]

22. Not If They Weren't The Only One On The Ballot...

In states where they all "supposedly" agreed not to campaign.

[MonkeyFunk]

27. all the candidates

were on the ballot in Florida.

[MagsDem]

29. Obama was on the ballot in Florida

And he is the only one that ran commercials there, the only form of campaigning. She won the popular vote in Florida by 300K votes. Does Obama think he is going to endear himself to Florida voters by declaring that they don't exist? That should go over real well them .

In any case, he's full of shit. The fact is that more people have voted for her, whether you want to count their votes or not.

[rinsd]

35. All the candidates were on the ballot in FL and 4 of them were on the ballot in MI.

"In states where they all "supposedly" agreed not to campaign."

Yeah who ran TV ads in FL?

[anigbrowl]

18. My guess is that within a few days

she'll be behind in the popular vote even if you do count FL and MI. Then it'll be 'it's about delegates, not the popular vote'. And so on, with minor variations.

Eventually it'll end up as 'the mainstream media ate my candidate'.

[ProSense]

23. Hillary on MI Primary "this election...is not going to count for anything"

Hillary on MI Primary "this election...is not going to count for anything"

[Bread and Circus]

26. So tell me genius, how the fuck was I supposed to vote for Obama in Michigan?

[MagsDem]

47. MI is different, but if had been smart he would have been on the ballot

But I grant you that it's different scenario than FL, where Obama did make sure he was on the ballot.

[OzarkDem]

14. They're causes, no one even knows if they're registered to vote

Caucuses are not representative of actual people who will vote in the GE. All you have to show is your drivers license or some form of ID. Its a very loose, unmonitored process.

If you think sucess in the caucuses will translate into success in the GE, you are sadly mistaken.

[MagsDem]

21. You don't even have to do that in WA state

You don't even have to prove you live in WA state. It's a sham of a process. There were shitloads of people voting in my precinct that I know damn well don't live there because I have knocked every door in the neighborhood. Lots of kids voting for Obama that I also know don't live in my precinct because I have a 15 kid I have raised here for 7 yrs. Suffice to say the fraud was on a grand scale.

[snooper2]

31. Your a gem...

really, just greatness....

[MagsDem]

37. It's true

I've knocked every door in the precinct, I've worked the polls, and I know all the kids in the neighborhood. I've also done work for the PTA in the same neighborhood. I know the kids in my neighborhood, and those 18-20 yr old kids that showed up for Obama did not live in this precinct.

[cbayer]

20. Ladies & Gentlemen, this is a statistical dead heat. nt.

[MollieBradford]

32. people in MI and FL

matter. I know that is not what Obama supporters believe, amazingly it is still true.

[Quixote1818]

45. But we don't know what those numbers would be in a real election

nt

[MagsDem]

46. What was unreal about it?

All the candidates were on the ballot and the voters were told that the vote would happen with or without DNC approval. What would have made it more real?

[goldcanyonaz]

48. Add Michigan and Florida and she leads, but, of course those people don't count.

[Perky]

49. Chart Including FL

Details Clinton Edwards Obama Total Clinton Edwards Obama Top 3
Date State Type Votes Votes Votes Votes Vote% Vote% Vote% Vote%
8,928,450 911,264 8,939,688 18,851,467 47.36% 4.83% 47.42% 99.62%
3-Jan-08 Iowa caucus 69,310 71,700 90,820 239,000 29.00% 30.00% 38.00% 97.00%
8-Jan-08 New Hampshire primary 112,610 48,818 105,007 288,058 39.09% 16.95% 36.45% 92.49%
15-Jan-08 Michigan primary 0.00%
19-Jan-08 Nevada caucus 60,690 4,760 53,550 119,000 51.00% 4.00% 45.00% 100.00%
26-Jan-08 South Carolina primary 141,128 93,552 295,091 530,022 26.63% 17.65% 55.68% 99.95%
29-Jan-08 Florida primary 857,208 248,604 569,041 1,684,390 50.89% 14.76% 33.78% 99.43%
5-Feb-08 Alabama primary 226,454 7,933 302,684 539,743 41.96% 1.47% 56.08% 99.50%
5-Feb-08 Alaska caucus 103 - 302 405 0.00%
5-Feb-08 American Samoa primary 163 121 284 57.39% 0.00% 42.61% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Arizona primary 201,391 21,095 167,053 389,539 51.70% 5.42% 42.88% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Arkansas primary 202,055 5,373 77,962 288,521 70.03% 1.86% 27.02% 98.91%
5-Feb-08 California primary 2,132,166 170,013 1,735,015 4,037,194 52.81% 4.21% 42.98% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Colorado caucus 38,387 79,344 118,984 32.26% 0.00% 66.68% 98.95%
5-Feb-08 Connecticut primary 164,831 3,408 179,349 350,595 47.01% 0.97% 51.16% 99.14%
5-Feb-08 Delaware primary 40,751 1,241 51,124 95,979 42.46% 1.29% 53.27% 97.02%
5-Feb-08 Democrats Abroad primary - #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0!
5-Feb-08 Georgia primary 328,129 17,990 700,366 1,046,485 31.36% 1.72% 66.93% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Idaho caucus 3,655 136 16,880 21,223 17.22% 0.64% 79.54% 97.40%
5-Feb-08 Illinois primary 662,845 39,001 1,301,994 2,003,840 33.08% 1.95% 64.97% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Kansas caucus 9,462 53 27,172 36,695 25.79% 0.14% 74.05% 99.98%
5-Feb-08 Massachusetts primary 704,591 19,889 511,887 1,244,123 56.63% 1.60% 41.14% 99.38%
5-Feb-08 Minnesota caucus 68,193 973 141,292 212,414 32.10% 0.46% 66.52% 99.08%
5-Feb-08 Missouri primary 395,287 16,747 405,284 820,453 48.18% 2.04% 49.40% 99.62%
5-Feb-08 New Jersey primary 602,576 14,607 492,186 1,109,369 54.32% 1.32% 44.37% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 New Mexico caucus 67,921 2,049 66,829 138,417 49.07% 1.48% 48.28% 98.83%
5-Feb-08 New York primary 1,003,623 19,725 697,914 1,721,262 58.31% 1.15% 40.55% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 North Dakota caucus 6,948 283 11,625 18,856 36.85% 1.50% 61.65% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Oklahoma primary 228,425 42,718 130,087 401,230 56.93% 10.65% 32.42% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Tennessee primary 322,599 27,644 250,730 604,096 53.40% 4.58% 41.50% 99.48%
5-Feb-08 Utah primary 48,719 3,525 70,373 122,617 39.73% 2.87% 57.39% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 Louisiana primary 136,959 29,427 220,558 386,944 35.40% 7.60% 57.00% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 Nebraska caucus 12,374 26,296 38,670 32.00% 0.00% 68.00% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 U.S. Virgin Islands primary 226 1,833 2,059 11.00% 0.00% 89.00% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 Washington caucus 61,070 133,960 197,000 31.00% 0.00% 68.00% 99.00%
10-Feb-08 Maine caucus 17,600 25,960 44,000 40.00% 0.00% 59.00% 99.00%

[Perky]

50. Chart Including FL

Details Clinton Edwards Obama Total Clinton Edwards Obama Top 3
Date State Type Votes Votes Votes Votes Vote% Vote% Vote% Vote%
8,928,450 911,264 8,939,688 18,851,467 47.36% 4.83% 47.42% 99.62%
3-Jan-08 Iowa caucus 69,310 71,700 90,820 239,000 29.00% 30.00% 38.00% 97.00%
8-Jan-08 New Hampshire primary 112,610 48,818 105,007 288,058 39.09% 16.95% 36.45% 92.49%
15-Jan-08 Michigan primary 0.00%
19-Jan-08 Nevada caucus 60,690 4,760 53,550 119,000 51.00% 4.00% 45.00% 100.00%
26-Jan-08 South Carolina primary 141,128 93,552 295,091 530,022 26.63% 17.65% 55.68% 99.95%
29-Jan-08 Florida primary 857,208 248,604 569,041 1,684,390 50.89% 14.76% 33.78% 99.43%
5-Feb-08 Alabama primary 226,454 7,933 302,684 539,743 41.96% 1.47% 56.08% 99.50%
5-Feb-08 Alaska caucus 103 - 302 405 0.00%
5-Feb-08 American Samoa primary 163 121 284 57.39% 0.00% 42.61% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Arizona primary 201,391 21,095 167,053 389,539 51.70% 5.42% 42.88% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Arkansas primary 202,055 5,373 77,962 288,521 70.03% 1.86% 27.02% 98.91%
5-Feb-08 California primary 2,132,166 170,013 1,735,015 4,037,194 52.81% 4.21% 42.98% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Colorado caucus 38,387 79,344 118,984 32.26% 0.00% 66.68% 98.95%
5-Feb-08 Connecticut primary 164,831 3,408 179,349 350,595 47.01% 0.97% 51.16% 99.14%
5-Feb-08 Delaware primary 40,751 1,241 51,124 95,979 42.46% 1.29% 53.27% 97.02%
5-Feb-08 Democrats Abroad primary - #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0! #DIV/0!
5-Feb-08 Georgia primary 328,129 17,990 700,366 1,046,485 31.36% 1.72% 66.93% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Idaho caucus 3,655 136 16,880 21,223 17.22% 0.64% 79.54% 97.40%
5-Feb-08 Illinois primary 662,845 39,001 1,301,994 2,003,840 33.08% 1.95% 64.97% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Kansas caucus 9,462 53 27,172 36,695 25.79% 0.14% 74.05% 99.98%
5-Feb-08 Massachusetts primary 704,591 19,889 511,887 1,244,123 56.63% 1.60% 41.14% 99.38%
5-Feb-08 Minnesota caucus 68,193 973 141,292 212,414 32.10% 0.46% 66.52% 99.08%
5-Feb-08 Missouri primary 395,287 16,747 405,284 820,453 48.18% 2.04% 49.40% 99.62%
5-Feb-08 New Jersey primary 602,576 14,607 492,186 1,109,369 54.32% 1.32% 44.37% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 New Mexico caucus 67,921 2,049 66,829 138,417 49.07% 1.48% 48.28% 98.83%
5-Feb-08 New York primary 1,003,623 19,725 697,914 1,721,262 58.31% 1.15% 40.55% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 North Dakota caucus 6,948 283 11,625 18,856 36.85% 1.50% 61.65% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Oklahoma primary 228,425 42,718 130,087 401,230 56.93% 10.65% 32.42% 100.00%
5-Feb-08 Tennessee primary 322,599 27,644 250,730 604,096 53.40% 4.58% 41.50% 99.48%
5-Feb-08 Utah primary 48,719 3,525 70,373 122,617 39.73% 2.87% 57.39% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 Louisiana primary 136,959 29,427 220,558 386,944 35.40% 7.60% 57.00% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 Nebraska caucus 12,374 26,296 38,670 32.00% 0.00% 68.00% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 U.S. Virgin Islands primary 226 1,833 2,059 11.00% 0.00% 89.00% 100.00%
9-Feb-08 Washington caucus 61,070 133,960 197,000 31.00% 0.00% 68.00% 99.00%
10-Feb-08 Maine caucus 17,600 25,960 44,000 40.00% 0.00% 59.00% 99.00%

[Perky]

51. pretty ugly cut ans paste sorry

but the bottom line is that sans Michigan but including FL Obama is slightly ahead by about 11,000 votes.

If you includ Michigan Clinton moves ahead

but after tonight it will probably mover to an over all PV Lead for Obama

[Perky]

52. pretty ugly cut ans paste sorry

but the bottom line is that sans Michigan but including FL Obama is slightly ahead by about 11,000 votes.

If you includ Michigan Clinton moves ahead

but after tonight it will probably mover to an over all PV Lead for Obama

[Obamaniac]

53. The Clinton campaign is very deceptively including...

...the numbers in Florida and Michigan, the latter where Obama didn't even have his name included.

I suppose Hillary Clinton thinks it's fair that she be given free reign over a state.

[I Vote In Pittsburgh]

54. Hillary does lead in popular vote against Senator Uncommitted

Congratulations Hillary.

[calteacherguy]

56. No she does not. Obama is the choice of the People! nt