Obama, an idealist but not a realist?

[pathansen]

It sounds as if Obama wants the best of both worlds: Get along with the Repubs and at the same time, implement change. Does anyone really believe its possible to implement any real change with these people without some sort of fight?

I fear is that Obama may just submit to the GOP. He just doesn’t appear strong enough to handle the extreme adversity that someone like Hillary has proven she can handle.

I noticed for example that during the debates, he would attack Hillary but never said anything negative about Bush. Then I recently heard that he actually said Bush has done nothing wrong to warrant impeaching him. On the other hand, Hillary has been openly confrontational with Bush and that helps to explain why so many of them hate her.

He’ll stand up against people in our own party; its safer. On the other hand, he appears to be too much of a coward to confront the really bad people

So maybe he’ll win because the GOP won’t hate him as much but will there be any real change?

[Schema Thing]

1. I've never seen anything remotely cowardly from Obama.

make your case.

[DURHAM D]

27. What do you call hiding out when it is time to vote? eom

[sofeisty]

2. First Minority President won't want to make waves...

First point, Obama owe a debt of gratitude to the Indies and Republicans who helped get him elected. That means he will not be as willing to spurn them in order to get things that need to be done done. He will be into coalition building and if that means baby steps so be it because...

Second Point, it's my hunch that as the first minority president will want to go down in history as being a uniter and liked moreso than kicking azz and making enemies that might to be made in order to reverse the madness of the last 8 years.

The end result is he will be a one term ineffectual president the likes of Bush 1 or Jimmy Carter.

[DJ13]

5. Name one MAJOR policy enacted by ANY President that could be done...

....without some support from the other side of the aisle.

Democrats have every right to be pissed at the way they've been treated by the GOP since Bush seized power, but nothing concrete can be accomplished (no matter if its Obama, or Hillary as President) by retaliating against them.

[jackson_dem]

9. Here's a recent one that Obama apparently forgot

The $1.35 trillion Bush tax cut of 2001. Another example is the Clinton budget proposal of 1993 which passed with 0 rethug votes.

[sofeisty]

10. Reversing the last 8 years is NOT retaliation

It took strong armed shoving down the Dems throats to get us into this mess. It might take the reverse to fix it. To think someone who cares about being liked and Mr. Nice Guy is going to be able to do it is delusional.

If you want to elect him, fine. Just don't expect miracles or even effectiveness out of a president who will be worried about his legacy from day one.

[pathansen]

12. I didn't mean retaliate; I met stand up to them

For example, how is he going to get out of Iraq right away if he's going to make compromises?

[sofeisty]

14. He's not. We are not leaving Iraq anytime soon no matter who is elected...

might as well get that day dream back into some perspective.

He might bring home a few thousand troops but we are stuck there for at least his term and longer even with a Congress that is friendly to him.

[Big Blue Marble]

13. President Obama will make waves heard around the world

and down through history. You just watch.

[sofeisty]

15. duplicate

[sofeisty]

16. OK, but I wouldn't bet my house, my car, or even the change at the bottom of my purse...

on it.

[Big Blue Marble]

20. Actually a bet might be in order.

At least the people here are betting on him pretty heavily:


Insight market traders betting on Obama

[sandnsea]

3. He bashes Bush in every single speech

Maybe you ought to actually watch one.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

22. EXACTLY!!!!!

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. He's going to build a coalition with the republicans. Same nice people

that voted down SCHIP. Great.

[griffi94]

6. i have no idea

how obama will deal with the repubs and the different factions of the democratic party.
i do however know that at some point he'll have to start making compromises...that is after all what
the job is. i wonder how he'll look to his more idealistic supporters when that happens.
i guess it will depend on the particular issue, but given some of what i've read in here the last few days...it's gonna get ugly when reality sets in

[madrchsod]

7. unless we have 61 votes in the senate

we will have to reach out to the republicans.

[griffi94]

8. and even if ya get 61 votes in the senate

there's a real good chance that the repubs will gain seats in 2010

[Fovea]

17. "we have 61 votes in the senate"

From your lips to the God's ears.

[pathansen]

21. I just don't think he'll fight for our interests the way Edwards & Hillary would

[Big Blue Marble]

11. Have you studied the Clinton Administration.

It made compromises with the Republicans often. Welfare reform, NFTA, gays in the military and free trade
legislation for starters. Hillary would do the same thing.

You are very weak in calling Obama a coward. Nothing in his past would support your claim.
Where has he submitted to the Republicans? I challenge you to retract such rubbish.

Hell he is taking on the Clinton attack machine. Who else has the courage to that.

If he beats that machine, I will not worry how he will manage the Republicans in the fall election
or once he is in office.

If you think you are helping Hillary with this tripe, you might want to think again.
Offer some reasons to support her instead of lying about Obama.

[pathansen]

25. Obama is claiming to make bigger changes than the Clintons

HIs whole campaign is based on making CHANGE.

I never said Clinton never made any compromises. He was forced to because he had a Republican Congress.

In the debates, Obama appeared to be attacking Hillary while she attacked Bush. Then he actually claimed that Bush didn't do anything wrong enough to get impeached! So I got the impression that maybe he's afraid to get the Republicans mad at him. How can he claim to be the more liberal candidate?

So, I really don't know what to think about him. I don't think he'll fight for Democrats the way Edwards or Hillary would.

[Big Blue Marble]

29. Obama will fight for the American people.

He has done that all of his life. After he graduated from Harvard Law School summa cum laude, he was offered
jobs in the corporate world that paid over a half of million dollars. Barack Obama believed it was
more important to help people who were disadvantaged and chose to work on the streets of Chicago for
10,000 per year. He wanted to make a difference. He did and he has been doing so ever since.

If you know anything about the south side of Chicago, you know its rough. You know you have to have courage
to stand up to the establishment and he did.

Obama is not a perfect candidate. He has flaws. He will make mistakes. He will fight when he has to
get a better deal for the American people. And he will fight who he has to restore constitutional government
and habeas corpus to our country. That is good enough for me.

[Extend a Hand]

18. I think there will be MORE likely to be real change

precisely because Obama prefers a less confrontational style of communication. A loud confrontation is almost never the most effective means of pushing through change.

[intaglio]

19. I think you are right Obama is an Idealist

and that should scare the living Shit out of the both the Republicans and the DLC

A Realist would never propose amending the Constitution to avoid the sickening totalitarian fantasies of the "Unitary Executive"
An Idealist might well

A Realist would never put the the whole "Signing Statement" business within a restrictive legal framework
An Idealist might well

A Realist would not even think about restricting the war making role of the President
An Idealist might well

Barrack Obama first came to prominence as a Constitutional Lawyer. I'm not sure what he might do to strengthen the Constitution but I am cetain that he can think of something.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

23. I hate sweeping statements (Obama HAS complained about Bush frequently)

(besides he doesn't thin his cousin Cheney is cool!)

[pathansen]

26. I hope you are right but I have heard other things

[babylonsister]

24. He won't submit to anyone but make clear choices imo. Now he's

in a complicated race he's working brilliantly. If you are really interested, I found this article fascinating. It talks about his involvement as a freshman senator and how he went about getting things done, with little fanfare...

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2006/10/barack_obama.html

[Cha]

28. Do you even know Obama's record before

you post this intellectually lazy crap?