When you get a PhD in Economics and manage to stay employed at the NYTimes...then you can complain

[Elspeth]

Until then, hands off Krugman. The guy is one of the few people we have out there in the corporate media. He has brains and the ability to express what he knows clearly. He isn't taking payoffs, he's just speaking his mind. To call him a "hack" is ridiculous.

[Colobo]

1. He's basically attacking Obama almost every damn week for months.

It's ridiculous.

[Elspeth]

9. He doesn't like Obama's ideas and plans. He's allowed to have an opinion

Just like all the progressive bloggers who have been trashing Hillary Clinton for months.

[NMMNG]

2. But he doesn't approve of Obama.

That makes him food for the wolves.

[Elspeth]

10. I'm thinking you're right about that.

There are plenty of columnists and papers who are in support of Obama, and did NOT support Edwards, but I haven't gone around calling them names.

[PurityOfEssence]

31. Thou shalt not slag the Pied Piper

Obama is perfect; those who resist must be destroyed.

[NMMNG]

32. So I've been experiencing from day one

:scared:

[PurityOfEssence]

73. Compared to the supporters in '03-'04, Dean seems positively mortal in comparison

The dewy-eyed, rapturous fervor is just amplified by the vagueness, conciliation and endless religion of the campaign tactics and the blissful adulation of many of the flock stands in sharp contrast to the hostility meted out to the unenlightened. It's a jarring mix of ambient emotion, and it's as irritating from the outside as it must be thrilling to its true believers.

Maybe he's got the oomph to sell this all the way, but maybe he doesn't. Either way, skepticism isn't some kind of heresy, and the issues of policy or electability shouldn't be off limits.

Mmmm...grape flavor. Yum.

[jackson_dem]

42. And then they wonder why folks see cultlike tendencies among many Obamites

[krabigirl]

67. Yep, blasphemy!!

[DS1]

85. He's allowed to not approve of Obama

[BeyondGeography]

3. Anybody else out there ever met an asshole with a PhD?

[Elspeth]

11. At least they know something. What are your credentials in economics?

Really.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. I think free-trade is a bunch of bullshit.

Which already makes me a better economist that faux-liberal Krugman.

[NOVA_Dem]

57. Economists typically don't support a minimum wage either. n/t

[BeyondGeography]

28. Krugman doesn't write about economics anymore

some Obama supporters wrote him nasty e-mails a while back so now he indulges his hurt feelings in second-rate hit pieces that masquerade as political analysis.

[lapfog_1]

14. Especially one in Economics

Remember that Arthur Laffer also has a PhD in economics.

Milton Friedman not only has a PhD but a Nobel prize for economics.

Both of them are idiots and assholes.

[hfojvt]

26. hey, I resemble that remark

but had to :rofl: anyway, because it is so true. Krugman really does not belong in that group though. He's just a Hillary supporter now for some reason. Perhaps because he, himself, makes way more than the median income.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Every, and I mean every, econ prof I ever had in school

Was a raging neo-con assmunch. I was finishing by B.S. in business back in '03 and had to take a macro-economics course. The instructor was orgasmic over the upcoming Iraq invasion.

[lapfog_1]

55. When going for my undergraduate degree

double major in Math and Computer Science...

I took an econ course... graduate level... aced it and had the prof begging me to switch to econ. But it was WAAAY to easy for me. Lost all respect for those who make a living out of economics.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

74. My dear dad was an economist/statistician

Republican, but a reasonable sort. He hated Reagan.

He always told us that both economics and statistics were more of an art than a science and that one should always take them with a grain of salt.

[bicentennial_baby]

86. Wow, my Econ dept is pretty left...

All of my Profs are Dems... :shrug:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

87. You are lucky. For whatever reason, I got stuck with trickle-downers. nt

[NOVA_Dem]

53. He has a PhD big Fuckin' whoop!

Anybody who's been to grad school knows that doesn't give you a free pass to spout off on topics unrelated to your field.

Jeezus, some of the professors I've had during undergrad and grad school HAD to teach b/c nobody would put up w/ their bullshit in the private sector.

[Zodiak]

54. I have a Ph.D.

...and I can definitely be an asshole.

:)

But I do not buy the OP. Logical fallacy...argument by authority.

[malletgirl02]

59. You're right

I was going to post the same thing about the logical fallacy, but you beat me. :)

[Bake]

83. But he wasn't an asshole until he supported HRC

And you would never call him an asshole if he supported Obama.

Tell the truth.

Bake

[Egnever]

4. Hes not a hack

Biased and flirting with hackishness. But I notice a lot of people are picking sides this time. Amazing election this one.

[Elspeth]

43. It's a bitter election

And I am worried about the fallout.

[Egnever]

66. Me too

[Elspeth]

68. Whoever wins this primary, there will be some very unhappy Democrats

Of course, with all the crap that needs fixing, whichever Dem takes over will be in trouble.

[sandnsea]

5. He's still human

He's the one who concocted the whole attack on Obama and the lack of mandates, he's kind of stuck with it. Even though he forgot that he opposed mandates back in 2004.

[dkf]

6. I stopped reading him when the NYT went subscription

and never went back.

What got into him? He needs to be a little more objective.

[Elspeth]

13. Maybe he just doesn't like Obama's health plan and economic ideas

That certainly can happen.

[dkf]

48. When someone starts into this "cult" thing its personal.

[Elspeth]

52. Maybe that's really his impression. A lot of us are worried that

Obama is lots of style and not so much substance and that his supporters are emotionally fired up to the point where they are becoming irrational.

[dkf]

70. He's got a great legislative record. He just doesn't go on and on about it.

If a person wants the detailed analysis, they can go to the website.

When he started on his policies at the JJ dinner, I started glazing over.

Face it, hearing policy proposals is boring.

[Orangepeel]

7. I respect Krugman. But I don't think his is infallible.

He can be, and sometime is, wrong.

[BayouBengal07]

8. Oh come off it.

He wasn't a problem until he started attacking Obama, right?

Whatever, I still like the guy. You people freaking out about this put way too much stock in an opinion column. He has opinions. So what. They won't cost Obama the election.

[malletgirl02]

15. You are right

Yes Krugman has a PhD, but as you said he is just an opinion columnist.

[killbotfactory]

12. None of that excuses him for being a self-rightous asshole.

But go ahead, get behind the guy who's insulting pretty much half the democratic party as cultists for not seeing things his way.

[Elspeth]

17. How is he a "self righteous asshole"?

Self righteousness seems to be a property of Obama supporters.

[killbotfactory]

21. By calling Obama supporters cultists

And then dismissing Obama as the next Ronald Reagan because he doesn't share his views on healthcare mandates.

He's being completely ridiculous.

[Elspeth]

45. Many of us have been worried about the emotionalism and lack of substance of Obama's speeches

And quite frankly, it DOES look like a cult to some of us. That may in fact be Krugman's honest opinion, and there is a factual basis for it.

Considering Obama also talked about how much he liked Ronald Reagan--and I know he was only referring to Reagan's charisma--he's kind of opened the door to Reagan comparisons.

[tabatha]

He is also insulting some powerful leaders

who have endorsed Obama, most recently Tim Kaine.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

16. We're so sorry for daring to speak against your cult leader.

The irony, it burns.

[Elspeth]

20. Since when is Krugman running a cult?

I haven't seen him out there emotionally swaying crowds with bland sentiments. He's actually trying to use his brain--and those of his readers. Not cultish by any means.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Since we have to keep our "hands off" him, for one thing.

Besides, it's not Krugman that's the problem, it's his supporters. :sarcasm:

[Elspeth]

36. One person saying "hands off" is not a cult, silly person.

If this is an example of the critical thinking skills that Obama's followers have, then I'll have to seriously think about going Green.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

38. Buh bye then.

Have fun on the Nader campaign. :hi:

[Elspeth]

41. Bye, snookums.

:hi:

[hfojvt]

18. I have an MA in economics and further reading beyond that

As far as staying employed at the NY Times, known a$$hats like Safire, Dowd, and Brooks have managed that.

Krugman, for all my affection and respect for him, simply is not unbiased here, and has not been accurate in his attacks on Obama. If an attack is not even true, how can it be fair?

[Elspeth]

23. You're referring to the "Obama cult" comment?

?

[hfojvt]

50. that's one of them

For one thing he just does not seem to realize that some progressives are more virulently anti-Clinton than they are pro-Obama.

Here's another

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2731724#2733926

[ProSense]

22. Oh, I think these guys qualify:

Former deputy assistant sec. of the Treasury under Clinton already called out Krugman

Krugman Wrong on Obama and Mandates


On edit: acknowledging that they don't work for the paper that endorsed Hillary.

[Elspeth]

30. But they are not calling him childish names

One can disagree about economics without using words like "asshat" or "asshole".

Seriously, I respect the right to disagree, and God knows, economics is an inexact social science. I DO NOT support people's right to trash an academic as a "hack" for saying what he believes. There are REAL hacks at universities, taking huge sums of money from industry. Krugman is just calling it like he sees it. He might be right or wrong but to question his ethics is silly.

[ProSense]

49. He is being a hypocrite and therefore his credibility in these attacks should be questioned.

And why is his article titled "Hate Springs Eternal"? Complete BS!

Krugman's hypocrisy

[Elspeth]

63. How is he being a hyocrite?

?

[ProSense]

75. Fully explained at the link provided. You did read it right? n/t

[Renew Deal]

24. Spare me

Hillary's supporters are trying to get Olberman and Shuster fired and we're supposed to give Krugman white glove treatment? I don't think so.

[Elspeth]

33. Clinton is not trying to get ANYONE fired.

She objected to the use of the word "pimp" in describing her daughter and I agree with her anger as a mother. But she is not trying to get anyone fired, that's misinformation and you know it.

And considering how much misogynistic bullshit she has had to take from MSNBC--coverage which she has not complained about--I think she has a right to defend her daughter from the same bullshit.

[Renew Deal]

37. I said Hillary's supporters.

Look around DU yesteday and you'll see it. I never said Hillary.

[Elspeth]

40. Yeah, like a couple of angry people on DU are gonna get Schuster fired.

When they get off their asses....

[JI7]

25. Robert Reich

http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/02/krugman-still-has-it-wrong-on-obamas.html

[Elspeth]

34. The guy who gave us the bubble that collapsed in 2000.

I don't trust Reich, never have.

[Jane Austin]

44. You must be thinking of Robert Rubin.

Robert Reich was Secretary of Labor. Did we have a Labor Bubble that collapsed in 2000?

[Elspeth]

46. Oops, you're right.

Way too tired to be posting.

[Jane Austin]

81. My oopsies are usually in the morning -

between the first and second cups of coffee. :)

Tell you the truth, it took me a few minutes to remember Rubin's last name.

Has he endorsed anyone?

[ProSense]

51. "The guy who gave us the bubble that collapsed in 2000." He is Hilary's chief issues strategist

Robert Rubin, Bill Clinton’s former Treasury Secretary and now Hillary Clinton’s chief issues strategist, is preparing her economic program to head off a recession, drafting her position papers and writing her economic speeches, say sources close to Rubin. He would be a principal White House adviser on the economy in a future Clinton Administration.

link

[Elspeth]

64. Asked and answered. See post above

:hi:

[alcibiades_mystery]

77. D'oh

:rofl:

[Cha]

35. Ain't taking orders from you..

anyone who calls me(and millions of others) a "cultist" 'cause I support the anti-War On Iraq candidate is gonna get serious backlash.

[Elspeth]

39. Obama is not an Anti-War candidate.

The only true anti-war candidate was Kucinich, whom I supported. When he left the race, I supported Edwards who came closest.

I have been thinking about supporting Cynthia McKinney if she runs as a true anti-war candidate.

[Cha]

58. Read up..I said Obama is the anti-War On Iraq

candidate. Here's his speech in 2002 when he was taking a stand and hilary was going along to get along with her presidential aspirations.

<snips>

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?

http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php

[Elspeth]

60. He's opposed on strategic grounds: it's not working

Some of us have been morally opposed to this war since the very beginning. It's easy to say you're against something that's not working.

[Cha]

72. Obama was against the war on Iraq

from the beginning and if you can't comprehend that then you have a big problem and no wonder you are giving orders on the internet and expect people to follow..you have a disconnect from reality.

[Iceburg]

88. And he was an ADVOCATE FOR the first Gulf War...need I mention Pakistan/nt

[Eric J in MN]

47. Bush has an MBA and he's the president. Therefore, who are we to criticize him?

(sarcasm)

Most of us don't have MBAs, and none of us were ever president of the US.

[Elspeth]

61. But Bush hasn't succeeded in anything--and an MBA ain't a PhD

Krugman had a distinguished academic career and is a good columnist. I've never heard him talk about "putting food on your family."

Shrub, on the other hand.....

He probably was mentally AWOL in class and got passed through courses because of who his daddy was.

[girl gone mad]

56. Agreed, and another in the long line of ways..

Obama supporters have shown an utter lack of class.

[Elspeth]

62. Lack of class....maybe that's it.

There's something not right. It may not be a cult, exactly, but it's certainly visceral.

[ProSense]

65. Yeah, worse than calling Kennedy a drunk, cheering on NOW for equating debates to "gang raping"

real classy!

[Elspeth]

69. And the "Coming out of Left Field" prize goes to....

Congrats!

:hi:

[ProSense]

71. No, you were called out for agreeing that Obama supporters "have shown an utter lack of class."

Now you're being a hypocrite.

[alcibiades_mystery]

76. He's not a hack

But when you do get a PhD, one of the first things you learn is that other people with a PhD will often feel free to comment on topics outside their expertise. I have no doubt that Mr. Krugman has expertise to speak on economic issues. Needless to say, that does not always mean that he's right. I do not, on the other hand, take Krugman's rhetorical meanderings about "cults of personality" to fall within his sphere of expertise, and for that reason, his expertise cannot shield him from attack on that front.

[Thrill]

78. The Clintons have called in the favors

Expect more attack articles on Obama and his supporters. My guess is it will backfire

[Ichingcarpenter]

79. Krugman deserves to be listen to

he was an Edwards supporter.

To me, both candidates are still not addressing Edward's concerns.
Krugman's remarks on the cult thing
is not totally off the mark.

But misses the point, it is more like a rock band following than a cult.

I like the music he plays and want to buy his LPs and go to his concert.
It reminds me when Elvis (clinton) was overshadowed by the beatles
and the music that followed that era.

Face it, Clinton was Elvis.

[cali]

80. Agreed. Krugman is definitely no hack

but your camp doesn't have ANY high ground to stand on. The Hillary supporters have, en masse, attacked one person after another for being critical of her or her campaign or simply for endorsing Obama.

[OzarkDem]

82. He has cred and cajones

along with the ability to translate complex subject matter into laymens terms. A combination rare among our liberal academics. He's been one of the few to speak out early and call the Bush admin on its lies when it was dangerous to do so.

He should have our respect, admiration and gratitude.

[ecstatic]

84. I received my PhD in Economics from the University of Phoenix

thank you very much! :)

Just kidding