Is Clinton Campaign Stirring Up Maryland Jews Against Obama?

[kristopher]

Is Clinton Campaign Stirring Up Maryland Jews Against Obama?
By M.J. Rosenberg - February 10, 2008, 10:50PM

Are you Jewish? Do you have Jewish relatives in Maryland? Are they Democrats?

If so, they have received hate mail from Democrats telling them that Barack Obama is a Jew-hater and/or an Israel-hater.

In the last few days, every Jew I know in Maryland has received this, along with warnings not to vote for Obama on Tuesday. This is not a GOP effort; the GOP does not care who Jews vote for in the primary on Tuesday.

This campaign is about the ugliest example of using race to defeat a political opponent that I've ever experienced. Race I say? Yes, because the whole campaign is predicated on the idea that conservative Jews do not like African-Americans and will believe that any African-American is hostile to Jews.

The smear campaign against Obama is both racist and anti-semitic. It won't work either. Jews are too smart to believe such obvious lies and libels. And I don't know a single Jew under 70 not supporting Obama!

Obama will win Maryland easily. But the campaign behind this will have done its part to stir up animosities between two minority groups in our state.

How goddamn low.

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/10/is_clinton_campaign_stirring_u/#more



http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Pushing_the_Israel_angle.html#comments

[AX10]

1. Is TPM out to get HRC?

Sounds like it.

[Renew Deal]

8. Is this untrue?

[Bucky]

69. It's TPM Cafe, the open user discussion site. Josh Marshall is remaining neutral.

This isn't a real reporter; just some clown with an attitude. Clinton isn't Jew-baiting; it's not in her character to do that. The Clintons play the game hard, but they generally play it clean and by the rules.

[ingac70]

2. American Thinker is a RW rag...

that is what is linked to in that talkingpointsmemo blog.

[still_one]

22. Is that what the TPM is trying to expose, that the right wingers in this country

are spreading this? If so, that does NOT surprise me, however, I didn't read it that way, and believe Josh Marshal would have made it clear if that was his intent

Unless that is the TPM reason to expose the RW group, which I don't think it is, TPM is where the criticism should be laid at for propagating this crap

[ingac70]

32. The guy in the blog is suggesting...

the Hillary camp sent this shit out.

[still_one]

37. That guy is M.J. Rosenberg, and I agree it is bullshit. This post

should also be moved to the I/P forum since M.J. Rosenberg has a specific agenda regarding that region

Just Google on him

[juajen]

3. I think you should look elsewhere for your culprits.

This is not at all like Hillary Clinton or her campaign. Perhaps its just being done by someone who hates her and wants her to be blamed for something this lowdown. Of mayhap, your are fudging the truth. How many Jewish people do you know, and could you post a photo of the pamphlet?

[karynnj]

52. I am Jewish and we got that piece in email

I suspect that it is from RW sources and that though they are targeting Obama now - they will then favor McCain, not HRC.

Some perspective - the neo Con part of the Jewish population may be loud and vocal and they may have more than their share of the richest, most powerful Jews - but they seem to have little power or persuasiveness in the overall Jewish population. Remember that in spite of all the talk of the Jewish vote possibly shifting to Bush - Kerry got within 2 % of the Jewish vote that Gore got with Leiberman on the ticket and enormous excitement over that in the Jewish community.

I do think that they have had some success in making Jimmy Carter unpopular, but at its heart this assumes a neocon position that most Jews have rejected. You don't make the middle east safer for Israel by inflaming the entire middle east speaking of Islamofascism - a truly despicable new word.

The concern I have is that it is detailed enough - that you it is not easy to refute without writing a book. This sounds like the SBVT book to me - a true clusterbomb of lies and half truths. In some ways it is less bad, as most things are current issues that they can assess for themselves and though the positions are mischaracterized they are accurate- and I know very few Jews who thing cluster bombs or the invasion of Iraq were good.

[NJSecularist]

4. Karl Rove would be proud

:thumbsdown:

[Medusa]

5. It is very GOP like in it's tactics

and gee, who do the GOP want to see as the nominee. . .

[QC]

6. Perhaps Morderchai the Peace-Loving Jew reported this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4495747

[jonnyblitz]

58. ....

:rofl:

[ursi]

7. that email is vile and disgusting and is right in line with the Obama/Muslim email

gee, what a bunch of fecking jerks.

[rodeodance]

9. Why do you post crap like this???

[still_one]

39. I agree it is crap, I also am quite disappointed in TPM, who is propagating this /nt

[UALRBSofL]

59. I can assure you HRC is not involved believe me or not

Yesterday afternoon being tired of the Hillary attacks I took a stroll to a right wing message board to see if the same thing was going on there. To my surprise it wasn't Hillary being attacked/smeared, it was Obama, Hillary was just an afterthought. Then I went to the AOL chat rooms, "to the right", "debate politics", same thing there. If your looking for someone to blame, look no further then the neocons.

[Hutzpa]

10. .

For fucks sake when will these people grow up.

[rodeodance]

11. Remove your OP--its a RW rag and you should be ashamed of yourself!

[Yossariant]

15. 5 posters have recommended this thread. It should be deleted.

The poster should be banned.

It was no difficulty at all to google "American Thinker."

This is not a mistake. It is deliberate.

[still_one]

31. For what? quoting an article in TPM, by M.J. Rosenberg, who is NOT for Clinton

It isn't the OP of the thread, it is TPM that is propagating the crap without proof

[jkshaw]

16. Talking Points Memo is a right wing rag?

That's a surprise.

[ingac70]

17. Apparently the Hillary camp is sending out copies...

of that article in that RW rag.

[still_one]

20. I don't think you can say TPM is a rw rag. You are justified in critisizing

Josh Marshsal for propagating that the Clinton camp is behind this, and I would agree, but TPM is NOT a RW rag

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. Major collapse of critical thinking

"This is not a GOP effort; the GOP does not care who Jews vote for in the primary on Tuesday."

Um... how about saying, "the GOP does not care whether black voters in Maryland think Hillary smears blacks"

I would suggest the GOP cares about that very much. Particularly after coming sort of close with Micheal Steele in the 2006 MD Senate race.

[rodeodance]

13. Can you believe there are 5 REC's for this garbage??

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

19. First of all making a personal attack on the OP is NOT appropriate

He was referencing a couple of links who made that assertion, he did not say he subscribed to it

I am an Obama supporter, and do not believe that the Clinton campaign has anything to do with this

However, I do believe there are people acting on there own trying to spread this

That is why seven Jewish Senators signed a statement condemning any implication of this nonesense

If you are going to critisize someone, perhaps Josh Marshal would be more appropriate

just my two cents

[LisaL]

21. Oh somebody sending some e-mail?/mail to ever Jew this person

knows. He never said how many people that would be. And by the way WTF does Hillary have to do with any of it?

[still_one]

24. Unless I read it wrong, it wasn't his words, but the TPM link

You also have to go to the politco link within that TPM link to get to a politico blog which continues to spew that B.S.

I don't disagree with your point, it is just that it was the TPM memo that was saying this

Maybe I read it wrong

Here is the bio of the person who wrote that article:

Biography: M.J. Rosenberg works in Washington supporting US efforts to advance an Israeli-Palestinian agreement. Previously, he worked on Capitol Hill for various Democratic members of the House and Senate for 15 years. He was also a Clinton political appointee at USAID. In the early 1980s, he was editor of AIPACs weekly newsletter Near East Report. After the signing of the Oslo Accords, Rosenberg broke with the AIPAC position and became a strong advocate of the "two-state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The views he expresses at TPMCafe are his alone.

I suspect that Rosenberg is NOT currently a Clinton supporter, and has his own reasons for propagating this crap

[karynnj]

53. I live in NJ - and was sent it by a Jew from Fl - as a heads up

from someone who knows I support Obama and am an overly informed CSPAN addict.

I see this as the beginning of a possible future SBVT like campaign from the RW, starting as they did with spam email. I assume that if any HRC supporters have sent this on, they are not acting for the campaign. I seriously thought of posting the link in the Obama group last week because it is likely something they need to smash quickly. I didn't because I did not see it anywhere on DU and didn't want to be responsible for aiding its spread.

[still_one]

18. I am Jewish, and I support Obama. All one needs to do is go to his site

and see that he supports Israel. He also supports a two state solution, and negotiation with all parties involved

There have been some threads here which implied what your post says, but they did not get very far

I would like to also point out that American Jews were very much part of the civil rights movement here, and in South Africa

I don't believe that the Clinton campaign is not behind this. There are other groups who do not represent Clinton who may be responsibile for this on their own also

Remember the statement signed by 7 Jewish Senators about a month ago, condemning a such implication to Obama

[The_Casual_Observer]

23. Must be a jewish mailing list someplace huh?

And every Jewish person is on it.

[still_one]

27. The problem is who is M.J. Rosenberg, and what is HIS political agenda

Biography: M.J. Rosenberg works in Washington supporting US efforts to advance an Israeli-Palestinian agreement. Previously, he worked on Capitol Hill for various Democratic members of the House and Senate for 15 years. He was also a Clinton political appointee at USAID. In the early 1980s, he was editor of AIPACs weekly newsletter Near East Report. After the signing of the Oslo Accords, Rosenberg broke with the AIPAC position and became a strong advocate of the "two-state solution" to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The views he expresses at TPMCafe are his alone.

Just google Rosenberg along with Clinton, and I think you will find that he has a personal political agenda, and it isn't for Hillary

It is very sad that TPM is repeating this crap without any verification and proof

[karynnj]

55. Of course not, but it spreads as a virus

Let's say I believed it and agreed that PNAC was the best thing ever for Israel, rather than something that has increased the risk. I could take my Synagogue directory and type in all the email addresses. When my kids were younger, Then I could look through my address book and add all the Jewish friends and family. I could also take a neighborhood list that my community has and look for Jewish surnames. I definitely could get at least 500 email addresses this way - though it would be a large amount of work.

Now let's say that even 50 of them decided to send it on to say 20 friends and relatives. You can see that it would spread pretty fast.

[Cha]

25. Now why would hilary and bil do that?

Can't they win on their own charming empty promises?

[still_one]

28. It ISN'T Hillary or Bill, it is the agenda of M.J. Rosenberg, the author of that article

If this is true, he has no proof that it came out of the Clinton camp, but one thing is for sure, Rosenberg, is not a Clinton supporter

[SaveOurDemocracy]

41. No surprise, you'll buy any rw trash that's out about HRC.

[eridani]

26. Both candidates seem sufficiently AIPAC to me

I wish that organization would quit pretending to be the voice of US Jews, because it isn't.

[BenDavid]

29. Jewish, am I , and support HRC, and get tired of some obama

people falsely accuse either Clinton without any damn evidence. Most of you obama supporters remind me of the republicans in the 90's that would throw stuff at both Clintons in hopes something stuck. But once it gets posted in here the people with half a damn brain will believe it to be the truth, just like the damn media reported any aqusation against the Clintons, and never would report the truth as they did the damn lie.

If the truth were to be told about obama and his race baiting and playing the race card often in this campaign then I suspect he would not be doing as good, but I accuse him of playing the race card often but for him to get away with this he has to have a press corp that would and did take the word of their campaign against the other.

Some of what you write is true with obama's pastor. You know the one that obama says is his mentor. Many statements by Rev. Wright have been anti- Israel and anti-Jew.I shall not post them as always someoen will reply about the link being this or that but will never check to see if the damn subject matter is true......

Many of us HRC supporters are very deeply offended by the hatred and vile language by some obama people. When Obama surrogates call Bill Clinton a racist, we and I personally resent it. I too have been called a racist and bigot in here and I guess people get off on the name calling.

I'm trying to like Obama and it's just not happening. but if Obama wants to win,he won't do it using Republican talking points and propaganda. Unless, that is, folks here among the blog commentators can deliver a majority of votes? I would warn Obama supporters that being anti-Clinton might result in a Republican president.

Shalom
Ben David

[still_one]

34. Ben, it is ANOTHER Jew who is making this accusation, M.J. Rosenberg

I don't know who Rosenbereg supports, but one thing I suspect is that he is not for Hillary.

Google him, and you will find what his agenda is

Incidently Ben, I AM JEWISH ALSO, and I support Obama

[NorthernSpy]

36. holy shit, weren't you one of them?

You know -- one of the people on DU chiming in on that smear campaign that the "Jewish Defense League" launched against Will Smith? Remember: they said he'd praised Hitler, and they demanded that Obama "repudiate" him (that was the point) -- until the whole thing blew up in their faces, and they wound up looking like nimrods?


Yeah, you remember.

[karynnj]

57. That article is no more from Obama than the smear piece is from HRC

As to the guilt by association with Obama's church, you should think of the similar things done to HRC. It was wrong to attack her that way and wrong to attack him. There are plenty of Obama people saying this is the neo-con RW, not HRC on this thread.

[NorthernSpy]

30. remember when the "Jewish Defense League" demanded Obama "repudiate" Will Smith...

The JDL had accused actor Will Smith of praising Hitler (a ludicrous smear that was publicized by the internet tabloid TMZ), and they decided to make political hay by demanding that Obama "repudiate" Smith.

As I recall, certain Hillbots right here on DU chimed in on the chorus.


Let's just say that the whole episode made me very, very suspicious -- and leave it at that.

[NMMNG]

33. Ok then

The smear campaign against Obama is both racist and anti-semitic. It won't work either. Jews are too smart to believe such obvious lies and libels. And I don't know a single Jew under 70 not supporting Obama!

If it's not going to work then why are you posting this here? If there's no danger to Obama's campaign then the alleged "plot" by Hillary's campaign is a moot point.


This looks more like another attempt to smear HRC than anything else.

[still_one]

35. This should probably go to the I/P forum, if you look at M.J. Rosenberg's agenda /nt

[kristopher]

38. Regarding the critics of the OP

I deliberately did not link to the document at American Thinker that is being circulated; of course, it is linked at TPM.
What I did link to was Rosenberg's post and the supporting post at Politico.com which I read as an assertion that the author received the propaganda piece from a prominent member of Clinton's finance - a smoking gun, if you will.
I don't know if it is true or not, but I've been reading the posts of Rosenberg for a long time and I've never found reason do question his integrity nor his good sense. JMHO.
-Kristopher

Text from second link:


Pushing the Israel angle

Exit polls showed Hillary Clinton with an edge among Jewish voters, but not an overwhelming one.

But some of Clinton's supporters are continuing to press the notion that Obama — despite having, on paper, a position quite close to Hillary's — is unreliable on Israel, using arguments that go well beyond anything the campaign would say.

One instance: I've obtained a copy of an e-mail from Annie Totah, a Washington society figure and Armenian-American activist who's also a member of Clinton's finance committee. The e-mail, titled "Barack Obama's Poor Record on Israel," went to a list that includes Anne Ayalon, wife of the former Israeli ambassador.

"Please read the attached important and very disturbing article on Barak Obama. Please vote wisely in the Primaries," the e-mail read, attaching a long piece from the American Thinker blog that's become central to the sub-rosa anti-Obama chatter.

The American Thinker calls speculation that Obama is actually a Muslim "overheated" (!) and "unfair," and never crosses the line into the more outlandish stuff you can find elsewhere on the Web. But it does go well beyond anything the Clinton campaign has touched (and more obvious elements of Obama's position, like his words and votes), and draws together a long litany of items from his church (which it says Obama joined out of expedience) to the fact that former Knick Allan Houston raised money for him to make the case that he's a "disquieting" candidate when it comes to Israel.

Anyway, something to watch.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/Pushing_the_Israel_angle.html#comments

[still_one]

42. That was the argument I was trying to make also. /nt

[kristopher]

44. I don't understand

Why do you think the post should go elsewhere? It seems to me to be directly related to the campaign tactics of HRC campaign and the politico article certainly intimates that he has a copy of the email from Ms. Torah, a member of Clinton's finance committee.


"I've obtained a copy of an e-mail from Annie Totah, a Washington society figure and Armenian-American activist who's also a member of Clinton's finance committee. The e-mail, titled "Barack Obama's Poor Record on Israel," went to a list that includes Anne Ayalon, wife of the former Israeli ambassador."

[still_one]

45. Specifically because that is what M.J. Rosenberg is about, the Israeli/Palestian issue

he also make a specific unsubstantiated reference to a blog no less:

"In the last few days, every Jew I know in Maryland has received this, along with warnings not to vote for Obama on Tuesday. This is not a GOP effort; the GOP does not care who Jews vote for in the primary on Tuesday."

This is a serious charge, and I question his motivation, based on his background and bias

If it is true, then I want proof, not a quote from a blog

[kristopher]

46. I understand

You don't like what he's saying so you wish to banish his words. I felt the Politico piece was based on some pretty solid claims - the fellow has the damned email from a member of Clinton's finance committee! You are right that it is a serious thing - which is precisely why it should be discussed.
It shouldn't be too hard for us to get documentation from Jewish members of DU in Maryland about whether they have received such a mailing. Maybe they can even tell us something about the origins of the mailings if they do, in fact, exist.

Rosenberg has a great deal of credibility btw.

[still_one]

68. First of all I am an Obama supporter. Second of all I am a Jew from Northern California

It isn't that I don't like what he is saying, I want proof.

Rosenberg has made an aqusation and has not provided proof in his article. He has implied certain things. That is no different then what joe mccarthy did. Maybe I missed it, but did he provide any documentary evidence? As far as I can see this is more hearsay than anything else.

Once again maybe I missed it, but where is the copy of the email, Annie Totah referred to?

You indicate it should not be hard for us to get documentation from Jewish members of DU in Maryland, again, maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen it in this thread

For example, when the Clinton camp misrepresented Obama's position on choice, not only was documentation supplied, but you had no doubt it came from the Clinton camp because it indicated such


When Rosenberg accuses the Clinton camp of spreading lies about Obama I want proof.

Not just proof that such letters may have been sent, but also proof that it came from the Clinton camp

As far as my suggestion that it be moved to the I/P forum, you are correct, I was wrong about that suggestion

[Emit]

70. This is being reported elsewhere, still_one

See post #67

I have read nothing, however, that says it originates with the Clinton campaign.

[Yael]

40. Yes -- I have Jewish relatives in Maryland

I don't know if they got this, but they are solidly Obama.

Disagreed with me on Edwards, but we ended up in the same camp.

The HMS Hillary is taking on water at an astounding rate and by her own doing.

[kristopher]

43. Maybe you could confirm Y/N with your relatives?

[BringBigDogBack]

47. kick

disgusting.

[TexasObserver]

48. It makes sense. It's got wedge issue potential. Out of the playbook.

Obama's theme is Change.

Hillary's theme is Cheat.

[Meshuga]

49. Jew from Maryland who is voting for Obama tomorrow: I haven't received anything not to vote for him

I am affiliated to a Conservative and to a Reform Jewish synagogue and I haven't received anything from the Hillary campaign or anybody else that says anything negative about Obama. I will check with people from my community that I am involved in. News travels fast around here about politics, specially in our local listserv, but I haven't seen anything about the so called "nasty mail". This is the first time I am reading about this.

Probably bullshit!

[MethuenProgressive]

50. First Obama Swiftboated Clinton on Race, now on Jews v Blacks?

How God Damn Low will Obama Go?

[indimuse]

66. LO____bama LO!

:hi:

[karynnj]

51. My husband got one of the Obama is anti- Israel pieces

forwarded to him. I will not post it because it is bad. It twists everything. I don't think it is from allies of Clinton, but it does not attack her and takes the small number of bills where they are different. I think this is coming from Jewish neo-cons, who in reality represent a very small part of the Jewish population. Consider Kerry got only about 2% less of the Jewish vote than Gore/Leiberman. I suspect that they are targeting Obama because they think he is the one most likely to genuinely shift our foreign policy in the middle east.

It also went through his foreign policy advisers - attacking all of them (but one) for such things as having been associated with Jimmy Carter and in one case (Susan Rice) with Kerry. (They attacked the 2 Jewish peace advocacy groups we are in as well). The real problem for them is that Obama's advisors were almost all publicly against the Iraq invasion.

At any rate it was like entering an anti-Du world, where what is good here is bad there. They blast Obama for voting for the amendment that would have stopped the sale of cluster bombs - and do not mention FEINSTEIN was the sponsor. Also voting for Kyl/Leiberman was good. They blast him for being a leader in the fight against John Bolton. (I guess being a Democrat on the SFRC was the reason - they all led against him and we cheered them on.)

They go into his record only after going through a lot of guilt by association on his church.

[UALRBSofL]

62. Well, most of the Jewish neocons live in my state, Florida

They, along with every other neocon will see to it McCain wins the state of florida. McCain is very pro-israel which isn't bad at all but I think they believe for there best interests they want McCain in office. Just my opinion.

[cooolandrew]

54. It's unsettling some of the thigs gone down in thsi election. Barack is the only candidate I see.

[LostinVA]

56. You are beyond transparent -- this is nothing but RW flamebait

[blueraven95]

60. well, I'm Jewish

most of my family is in MD, fairly politically active (to varying degrees), and I am unaware of any contact like this within our family anyway.


Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I am a Jew under 70 supporting Clinton. But that does not mean that I will not be fully behind Obama, should he win the primaries.

:hi:

[Meshuga]

61. And I am a Jewish (except that I am a Obama supporter) from MD

And I also unaware of any contact like this within my community. I think it is bs and this thread is nothing but flamebait attacking Clinton.

Like you I will support the nominee. :-)

[Donnachaidh]

63. POLITICO as a credible source? Call BULLSHIT on this one!

I'd like to see absolute PROOF of any of these allegations.

Sad sorry crock of shit, this *piece*.

[DemGa]

64. Thank God the Obama's are not taking the bait on this one

I hope also, this reminds you to be watchful for manipulation from the right-wing.

Example: using Bush's latest statements as fuel to attack Hillary Clinton. You SHOULD know better.

[Debbi801]

65. I'm Jewish and live in Baltimore.....

which has a very large Jewish community. I have received nothing like this. I've received no "hate mail" what-so-ever. Nor do I know anyone who has received it. *shrug*

[Emit]

67. Why can't this be discussed in a rational manner without shooting the messenger?

I read about this in The Week just last night. I've been reading about issues relating to this for some time now, mostly from Israeli blogs and news. Why can't this be discussed in a rational manner without shooting the messenger?

How They See Us: Would President Obama Be Good For Israel?

It's becoming fashionable in Israel to 'smear" Barack Obama, said Tel Aviv's Ha'aretz in an editorial. A former Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Danny Ayalon, has dropped all kinds of innuendo to the effect that Obama has been "not entirely forthright" about his views on Palestinian rights. Ugly, anonymous e-mails slamming Obama have circulated in Israel as well as in Jewish-American circles. ...

Not all of his statements are quite so clear, said Tel Aviv Israel Insider ... Obama has tried to "gloss over" the fact that he was "raised in his childhood by a devout Muslim" and was, in fact, "considered a Muslim as a child."

Let's not go there, said Caroline Glick in The Jerusalem Post. We needn't falsely paint Obama as a Muslim to justify opposing him -- his true religious affiliation is bad enough. Obama belongs to Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ, a church whose minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., is both "anti-Jewish and anti-white." Wright has called for divestment from Israel "and refers to Israel as a racist state." He has long-standing ties to the notoriously anti-Semitic Nation of Islam, led by fellow Chicagoan Louis Farrakhan ...

The Week, Vol. 8. Issue 348, February 15, 2008

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