I did not watch the special. I already know what we are about.

[madfloridian]

I did not watch the special tonight, but I gather it was not especially complimentary. More of a Trippi piece.

Oddly enough, none of our local group here are cult-like at all, and about half are not really internet savvy. Many are just people who heard him speak on C-Span, etc. and liked his message.

For most of us it was nothing to do with Trippi, but it was about Dean's message. The fact that he was imperfect and said what he thought rather than what was proper, drew us to him even more. I found that most of us here in our area were fairly well educated, nearly all of us very moderate in our convictions, nearly all of us liberal in our views about others and their rights. That exactly matches the Dean fiscal conservativism and the Dean social liberalism. It is a match.

What I have been picking up here is the past tense about Dean. There is no past tense. He is not going to be the nominee this year, may not ever want to be. He is not going anywhere, and neither are we. His supporters on the whole are still solidly with him as the new format emerges. We may vote for the nominee, but it is not the same.

It is a mistake to discount Howard Dean, just because he was not the best "candidate". He will be more potent not being the candidate.
It is mistake to discount his followers and continue to be derisive toward us. There is so much going on still to change things. He is already in demand for dinners and fundraisers. Our own DEC has asked him to come. His schedule will be busy.

I did not watch the special, and I probably won't. I know what we are about, and I know what Dean is about. That is what counts.

[WillyBrandt]

1. I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

It's not perfect. But the focus is actually less on Trippi I realize than on individual volunteers, particularly young ones.

[madfloridian]

3. The odd thing is that most of us here are middle-aged or older.

Just a bunch of middle age or older folks who were so happy to hear the truth after two years of lies and war drums beating.

Most of us are able to keep donating to the causes Dean espouses, that is good.

[WillyBrandt]

9. Where I was, it was very young, so I suppose I have

a skewed view...

[WilliamPitt]

2. The rest of us don't care about Iraq

Right?

[madfloridian]

4. Will, I read your article. Thanks. But I did not mention Iraq here.

I was talking about us. I do thank you for the article,though. You are very talented and skilled.

[WilliamPitt]

5. No, you didn't

But one of the last threads I saw from you was a tongue-lashing for the rest of us for supposedly 'forgetting' Iraq. If you want to know yourself, as it seems, you shouldn't forget that.

[madfloridian]

6. My post was my own feelings. Sorry you took it as tongue-lashing.

BTW, I just complimented you. Could you at least accept it? I meant it. You have a lot of talent, and you have a great future. However us Dean folks will still be around in the future, so accept us, please.

[WilliamPitt]

8. "Accept us."

"You've forgotten Iraq."

"Accept us."

"You've forgotten Iraq."

"Accept us."

Get the hint?

I accept you. I don't think you have, in any way, accepted us.

Or, as Gollum said, "We be nice to them if they be nice to us."

[madfloridian]

11. Yes, I have accepted totally that our candidate lost.

You are attributed a lot to me that comes from others. I am a person, not just a Dean supporter. I am going to vote for Kerry in November.

I have not said bad things about him, but I do reserve the right to help keep the war in the forefront.

I am trying to be nice.

I will remain a Dean supporter in a different form. I will vote for the nominee. I will not criticize the nominee unfairly, but I will expect him to speak out on issues. Fair?

[WilliamPitt]

16. Fair

But I have attributed to you exactly that which came from you. If my persistence on this hasn't been enough of a clue, I'll say it plain: It was offensive and painful when you said that some of us had 'forgotten' Iraq.

You are attributed a lot to me that comes from others. I am a person, not just a Dean supporter. I am going to vote for Kerry in November.

I have not said bad things about him, but I do reserve the right to help keep the war in the forefront.

I am trying to be nice.

I will remain a Dean supporter in a different form. I will vote for the nominee. I will not criticize the nominee unfairly, but I will expect him to speak out on issues. Fair?

Fair enough.

[madfloridian]

17. Actually I did not think you had forgotten.

There are quite a few who have, but I don't think you were one of them.
Peace.

[WilliamPitt]

18. Yet, as you stated just yesterday

When you post on an open forum, you assume it is for everyone.

Peace, and wisdom, right back.

[Duder]

10. Well, if you had given a tongue-lashing

You'd have my compliments, but I know you're a little more understanding than I am.

[madfloridian]

13. Trying to be. My post about Iraq yesterday was not ugly.

It really wasn't. It was my own rambling thoughts.

[madfloridian]

14. Duder, here is my post. I don't think it is bad.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=438755

[Duder]

15. You have nothing to apologize for

'I have noticed that in the posts here, in the people I talk to who used to be against it, and in the media.

There was a huge push by people the world over to keep Bush from invading that country.

But now that he has done it, no one seems to worry too much about it.

We don't see much here about the deaths, more comfortable not to speak of it.

Not much talk about the fact that Saddam and Iraq were not responsible for 9/11. There used to be. It is more comfortable this way.

It makes it a lot easier to go to the next country/countries. Not so much outcry anymore.'

I couldn't agree more. What a difference a year has made.

[janx]

19. Bad? It was insightful and useful.

There's not much anti-Iraq war going on these days compared to some other days I remember. You're right about that.

[BuelahWitch]

28. So why don't you keep it on that thread

and get back on topic on this one?

Or do you just like to hassle MadFloridian? :eyes:

[RetroLounge]

30. Yeah, I noticed that too.

:eyes:

RL

[KoKo]

7. madfloridian, I saw the same thing in NC at the Dean Meet Ups. I didn't

see anyone at the house and restaurants I went to that was under maybe 35. I saw many more folks in their 40's, 50's and some who seemed older than that. Even a very elderly woman who might have been 80 or 90 at one house.

And, our precinct here in NC is meeting Tuesday to gather support for Dean in what are now "caucuses in NC" because our Repug Legislature screwed up the Primary. But, Dean is on the ballot thanks to all the volunteers who got the signatures and we will try to keep an influence for Dean and actually Kucinich, also.

So, we aren't going away just because Dean didn't make it. He gave a voice to us and we aim to have some say so in that convention. That's the way Democracy was "supposed to work." Let's hope someday in the future it works again. It may be awhile, but I don't feel we will roll over and die just because Dean and Kucinich weren't viewed as "electable." Maybe they weren't but that doesn't mean their message will be in the dustbin.

Thanks for your post about this.

[madfloridian]

12. Right. Our voices and Dean's will still be heard.

Watching that speech yesterday, I realized fully that he is to be the catalyst for change. Not the nominee, maybe never....or maybe someday.

In an article from the St Pete Times by Adam Smith, he indicates that it is the Dean people who are remaining activists, enrolling people to vote, supporting candidates, even getting candidates to run in local areas long forgotten by the Democratic Party.

It will take money, and we are willing to do what we can. The Kucinich people in on area are joining with us in supporting the candidate running from our Dean group. The enthusiasm is forcing the local parties to sit up and take notice.

[janx]

20. March 18 should be interesting.

;-)

[MurikanDemocrat]

21. I thought that special was on last night instead of tonight.

No wonder I couldn't find it.

[madfloridian]

22. Rather than that, just watch his speech on C-Span 2 at 8am tomorrow.

It will tell you more about what Dean is about than that special will.
It was a very worthwhile discussion and Q&A session with the press.

[janx]

23. I'll second that thought. I saw both, and you're right. n/t

[MurikanDemocrat]

24. Is it a new speech?

And is the special on again? I knda wanted to watch that.

[madfloridian]

25. Yes, it is the one he gave at the PreGridiron luncheon yesterday.

He was speaking before a group of seasoned, tough journalists, who questioned him, respected his answers.

He really is best in that venue, he is just himself. He did give the press a warning with a grin, that he would have some things to say to them after the election...that he did not want to be called for sour grapes.

He told them that people in DC just did not "get it." That people he met on his campaign were "in a panic" over jobs and the economy.

He went after Greenspan for playing politics with the deficit and social security.

He was subdued, but powerful.

[MurikanDemocrat]

26. I'll try to catch it. Thanks.

:hi:

[madfloridian]

27. It's worth it.

He looked good and was relaxed. At peace with himself, honest about the campaign. A good guy.

[madfloridian]

29. In post #3, I made the point about the ages of his supporters.

This is amazing to me how varied it is. Take a look at the Open Thread post under the Comments from last night, that asks people to give their ages. Very interesting.

http://www.blogforamerica.com/

It makes my point for me, that we are not all young.

[madfloridian]

34. I just checked this thread, and one 100 year old is mentioned.

The ages are quite fascinating. The thread is 3rd or 4th down but still growing.

[mrgorth]

31. MF, I think you might like it

It was mostly about Trippi because it was about the campaign but they obviously showed the Governor a lot. To me, it didn't paint us as mainiacs or a cult or anything. I think it was rather complimentary towards us. Also, it was interesting to see what went on behind the scenes. You should've seen Trippi go nuts when he got Lieberbush's press release on Dean being "anti-Israel". That said, it was pretty painful.

Will, your hijacking of this thread is unconscionable. Would you rather see Dean supporters run out of the party than supporting Kerry? That's what it seems like.

[madfloridian]

32. Was that about the time of the Pelosi letter? Here it is. Very sad.

September 10, 2003

The Honorable Howard Dean
P.O. Box 1228
Burlington, VT 05402

Dear Governor Dean:

We are writing to respond to your comments on the Middle East at a recent
campaign event and in Tuesday's candidate debate and explain why we believe
it is wrong to say the U.S. should "not take sides" in the
Israeli-Palestinian dispute.

American foreign policy has been - and must continue to be - based on
unequivocal support for Israel's right to exist and to be free from terror.
The Palestinians have at best been ambivalent about their willingness to
accept Israel's existence and from Yasir Arafat on down they have promoted
or acquiesced in the use of terrorism as a tactic in their struggle. It is
unacceptable for the U.S. to be "evenhanded" on these fundamental issues.

All of us want a genuine peace process to succeed, and all of us accept the
legitimacy of a Palestinian state once the Palestinian leadership and people
recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state and not only renounce
the use of violence but at last take action to dismantle the terrorist
infrastructure inside the Palestinian Authority. Time and time again, the
Israeli people have shown their willingness to take risks for peace. But
they will only do so with the knowledge that U.S. support for Israel will
not waver.

It is important for America to help facilitate a peaceful resolution of the
conflict, but in playing this role we must be true to our values and make
sure that all parties clearly understand our policies. This is not a time to
be sending mixed messages; on the contrary, in these difficult times we must
reaffirm our unyielding commitment to Israel's survival and raise our voices
against all forms of terrorism and incitement.

Sincerely,

Howard L. Berman
Nancy Pelosi
Robert Matsui
Steny Hoyer
Martin Frost
Nita Lowey
Tom Lantos
Edward Markey
Chet Edwards
Ben Cardin
Steve Rothman
Steve Israel
Gary Ackerman
Barney Frank
Rahn Emanuel
Adam Smith
Anthony Weiner
Chris Bell
Adam Schiff
Hilda Solis
Robert Menendez
Shelley Berkley
Robert Andrews
Joseph Crowley
Jose Serrano
John Larson
Ellen Tauscher
Dennis Cardoza
Patrick Kennedy
Linda Sanchez
Harold Ford Jr.
Brad Sherman
C.A. Dutch Ruppersberger
Alcee Hastings


http://www.house.gov/berman/letter_new.html

[madfloridian]

33. A friend taped it. I might watch it later.

Maybe.

[indigo32]

35. It was mostly about Trippi

I had kinda hoped it wouldn't just be about him... though obviously he was pivotal.