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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:23 AM
Original message
Obama is the only candidate making race an issue.
And has been quite clever about it.

I used to have a lot of respect for Barack Obama. After I heard him speak at the Democratic Convention in 2004 I thought, this man will someday be president, and that I'd support him. I was disappointed when he decided to run for president after just 2 years in the Senate, primarily because I thought it showed poor judgment, for his career, for his Party, and for the country, not to mention the world. I supported the candidate who I still feel was by far the most qualified candidate running in both Parties, Joseph Biden. I thought the Democratic Party would put aside what has become America's flavor-of-the-month attitude, grow up, and back the candidate most ready to be president and best able to win in the general election. This, obviously, was not to be.

Since then I've watched with curiosity and much trepidation at the spectacle we refer to as the Democratic primary. I watched as the news media determined, from the start, that the Democratic nominees were to be the woman and the African American. They got their way in the same way the got their way with the Iraq invasion. Big events sell advertising in the news media, not to mention corporate benefits. The news media relegated all other candidates to sidebar status buried under the daily Hillary/Obama headlines. They got their way.

Things really got ugly during the South Carolina primary. Obama accused the Clintons of playing the race card. The Clintons. Now, I'm not a big fan of Hillary Clinton, and I have reservations about Bill, but nothing I heard them say can honestly be considered as using race in a nefarious way. But when Obama made the charge at a time when it could only help him and hurt Hillary, which it did both, Obama definitely crossed that ethical line and used his race against Hillary.

One of the charges he used against Bill Clinton, the one charge I actually heard Obama himself make, was that the former president, while mentioning that it was an historic race due to having the first serious woman candidate and first serious African American candidate, was using that to remind voters that Obama is black. For one, Obama makes this same statement over and over again. But this is not something anyone is going to forget. In other words, Bill Clinton didn't remind anyone of anything they weren't already fully aware. It's like accusing someone of reminding us the world is round by mentioning that Magellan circled the globe. But Obama use it to good, if not untoward, effect. My suspicions of Obama's cognizant use of race for political gain were confirmed when, during a recent debate he once again made the statement about this being an historic race with the first serious woman candidate, the first serious African American, and then there's... John (you remember, the only white guy left standing at the time).

I've lost respect for Obama and don't think he is what we need as a leader. It would be a mistake. I'm not a Hillary supporter and I have serious reservations about her as well, nor will I cast a vote for any Republican. It's just a sorry state of affairs, or affairs of our sorry State.
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5X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. So what your really saying is he is using race because he is black
and uses it every time he appears in public as a black man.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. ...
:eyes: *swoosh*
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. No. What I'm saying is that he's using race for political gain.
I shouldn't have to remind you that we are all of some race, and most of us a mixture of several. It was the Obama campaign that was accusing the Clintons of playing the race card. I'm not even sure what that means anymore, but in Obama's case it didn't have to mean anything specific. He just understood the effect it would have on the Clinton campaign, and it worked. I thought it was pretty low.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Got a link to the actual quote, in context?
Thanks.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
63. Ted Kennedy is saying "vote Obama because it's politically correct"
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 06:13 AM by neutron
obviously.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #63
76. There's a lot of that feeling circulating Obama's campaign.
It's associated with the white guilt thing. Of course, that's not the only reason Obama is doing well. He's got a lot going for him and he uses Rovian tactics well.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. Do you have your fire retardent
clothing on today? I'll give a couple examples,Bill Clinton made a remark about Obama's stance on the war was a "fairy tale". Either him or his campaign made out that Clinton called his whole candidacy a fairy tale.Bill Clinton only stated the fact that Jesse Jackson carried South Carolina and that somehow was spun into a racist remark. Obama brought up the fact that Hillary worked as an Attorney for Walmart, I am not a real fan of Walmart but since when is that a crime? Then Hillary brought up Obama's involvement with Rhizo and somehow that was a racial remark. Now we find out about how Rhizo helped Obama buy his house. Now Rhizo is under indictment, it looks like this could be a Whitewater type scandal in Obama's closet.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Yes, you've named some of the other examples...
that have made Obama suspect in my mind. I don't trust most politicians and I don't trust Obama. And I also think the press is giving him a pass unlike anyone else in this entire primary process. I supposed they're being hyper-sensitive in avoiding any appearance of any negative racial bias, or they believe having Obama in the general election is a bigger news story. Probably both.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. He has gotten a total free ride
by all the MSM. Look at the fuss made when Joe Biden made remarks actually complimenting the guy, that became a rascal slur too and I don't think he intentionally meant anything. Sometimes Joe Biden just talks a little more than necessary.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. It did hurt his candidacy, though I suspect it wouldn't have mattered.
This issue was brought up during one of the debates. It created one of the only times all the candidates were in agreement on something, besides their disdain for Bush, that there was nothing the least bit racist about Joe Biden, and to Obama's credit, he personally spoke up for Joe Biden on this point. Anyone taking the time to research Biden and his history would come away without a sliver of doubt regarding his attitude toward race. He's a man with the highest of ethical standards and aptly demonstrated this during the campaign. As for his talking, Biden talks off the cuff. He tells the truth and has the audacity, the confidence, and the honesty to speak beyond scripted lines. I found that to be one of his most endearing characteristics, not a handicap. It's so refreshing and the mark of a person who is not afraid of the truth. I think the Democrats made a catastrophic mistake by passing him by. Not only the most qualified, but the one candidate who could be supported by a strong plurality of Americans. This oversight will be deeply regretted if we end up with a President McCain.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. Obama's campaign is based on reacting to anything Hillary says
and running with the media spin of the moment. He also makes speeches with memes like, "do ya feel it?" or "keep hope alive" or similarly shallow lines.

I am waiting for substance from him.

His supporters show their 'support' by ignoring policy and attacking other democrats.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Clinton (HR) is using gender, but Clinton (B) is using race.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:11 PM
Original message
Whatever.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
31. that was a great and helpful comment. thanks!
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Give me something to comment on and I will.
Yes, Hillary plays up being a woman and Barack plays up being black. Hillary doesn't deny that it's important that she's a woman, but Barack claims that being black is a non-issue, even though he'll turn right around and remind everyone how historic his run for the presidency is--because he's black. He plays it both ways. Who do you think is being most honest on this issue? Also, the Clinton's aren't accusing Obama of sexism or of using Hillary's gender against her, but Obama or his surrogates do make the claim that the Clinton's are using his race against him. That's the difference. Yet, the Clinton's aren't saying anything more about Obama's race than he is about Hillary's gender. This is the undeniable truth, but I doubt that you'll allow yourself the inconvenience of recognize it.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
43. "Whatever"- is code word for "I refuse to admit I'm wrong- even when it's obvious".
:shrug:

Your argument is unconvincing- and disengenuious.

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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. And you say this why?
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. I agree
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree with you. Obama accused Clinton of racism to win SC
The surrogates were all over the news, repeating Obama's talking points. The media spun it as Clinton bad / Obama good. And it worked for him. Clinton was vilified. And Obama successfully solidified the black voting block of SC while the media continued to accuse Clinton of racism.

What Obama did is worse than Willy Horton. And I am disgusted by it. I am also amazed that no one seems to care that he used race to divide the party.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I don't know how many times I have heard
Obama's surrogates and the MSM talking heads such as Tweety make the statement that Bill Clinton called Obama's (an African American) candidacy a fairy tale. How is calling Rhizo a slum lord racist?
There are white people that live in slums too, I work with a guy that jokes about being a slum lord and all his tenants are white. He buys up cheap houses and rents them to poor people.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. I know some guys who do that too.
White guys, though that doesn't really make any difference. Rhizo is a crook, and if he had the same relationship with Hillary Clinton as he does with Obama, Obama would be cudgeling Clinton over the head with it claiming that it's another indication that Hillary can't be trusted, or whatever he considers to be the best spin attack to hurt her. I understand that that is part of the primary process, but somethings should be considered unacceptable and accusing the Clintons, of all people, of using race in this primary by a man who claims that race shouldn't play a roll in this election, is simply disingenuous, dishonest, and unethical.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. That poor Obama using the "Jackson" strategy to win SC and lose the nomination.
If you really believe that you don't have a very high opinion of Obama's intelligence, do you?

After proving that he can transcend race in Iowa, then proving he can do well with whites again in NH and NV, he decides to do an about face in SC, stress that the is the BLACK candidate (like Jackson), probably win SC (like Jackson), then go on to lose the nomination (like Jackson) because Democratic voters across the country have come to view him as the BLACK candidate (like Jackson).

If you think that the virgin campaigner Bill didn't realize after Iowa that an Obama who transcended race was a threat to Hillary, you are entitled to your opinion. Once, IMHO, Bill realized this, he had to figure a way to create a public perception of Obama as the BLACK candidate, since a BLACK candidate is no more likely to win the nomination than Jackson or Sharpton were.

Now Bill is no racist, but he is a no-holds-barred campaigner (a fact that most Hillary supporters are proud of when it comes to going up against Republicans), so he came up with ways to inject race into the primary without it being overtly racist on its face.

And I agree with your disgust at using race to divide the party. We just differ on who caused this to happen.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. you are ignoring the facts. In fact, it is laughable that people actually
believe that Clinton would attempt to use racism just before SC. You would have to ignore the facts, the time, line and the idea that the ONLY PERSON WHO WOULD BENEFIT is Obama.

I am saddened it is so easy to fool Americans. And that we are so superficial that we just agree with everything the media tells us.

What a shame
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. That American dynamic saddens and frightens me as well.
It's been getting us into a lot of trouble over the last several years.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. The only person who would benefits, in terms of who wins the nomination, is Clinton.
For Obama to use racism to win SC would be so self-defeating in terms of winning the nomination that you would have to assume that he is an idiot or that Blacks just can't help but play the race card.

It is sad that so many Democrats, including politicians, party officials, and strategists, have been fooled by the evil Obama campaign and, of course, the MSM. It is reassuring to me, though, that even though I am often duped by the MSM (unlike intellectual stalwarts such as yourself), that at least this time I have so much company from many other real world Democrats (as opposed to the internet poster Democrats) from Kennedy to Sharpton.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. And, of course, the MSM.
You can definitely count them on your side as well.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
49. Exactly, why can't people see that? Why in the hell
would Bill Clinton go to SC and alienate the voters they need, he is not that dumb.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. This is what I don't understand: how did B. Clinton make Obama the BLACK candidate?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Obama became the black candidate the moment he announced his candidacy. He certainly wasn't limited to being just a black candidate, but that is certainly part of his candidacy. I'm bothered by his double standard when it comes to the issue of race in this campaign. He's allowed to say things that the Clintons can't. I don't buy that and neither should you.

And you shouldn't confuse intelligence with ethics. History is littered with people with high intelligence and questionable ethics. If I wanted to question Obama's intelligence I would have done so directly, but I find him to be very intelligent. It certainly wouldn't be the first time an intelligent person used that intelligence to manipulate the masses, now would it?
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #26
36. It sounds like we agree that Obama is intelligent, it would be unethical for anyone
to inject race into the campaign, and that intelligence and ethics are two different things. I'll add to that that both Clintons are very intelligent. I am sure you won't disagree with that.

To me it is fairly simple. If Obama can transcend his race and appeal to all types of voters, which is necessary to win the nomination, then he is a threat to Hillary. If voters perceive him as another Jackson or Sharpton, who appeals primarily to African American voters, he will have no more chance at winning the nomination than they did. If I can figure this out, I'm sure Bill had it figures out the day after the Iowa caucus.

After proving he could transcend race in the Iowa caucus, I just don't see the wisdom for Obama to reinvent himself in SC as another Jackson or Sharpton. I do see the wisdom from the Clintons perspective in reinventing Obama as being more like Jackson or Sharpton than a Black candidate who can transcend race. Let's face it, Obama can't win the nomination unless he can appeal to whites, so he won't be a threat to Hillary.

If you believe that Bill is intelligent enough to figure this out but to ethical to actually employ race in the campaign, you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine.

I do accept that there is a double standard in real life as well as in the campaign. There are things that Blacks can say that Whites cannot. There are things that women can say that men cannot. Republicans always make the case that we should all held to exactly the same rules and expectations. They often do not like it when minorities perceive bias or racism in something they have said or done, even though they proclaim that they meant no offence and that the minorities have said the same or worse themselves.

Would the world be a better place if we all were able to say whatever we wanted about any group without fear of misperception or judgment from members of that group? Sure, but there are many Republicans who will tell you that ain't the world we live in.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. It sounds like where we differ is that I don't think a double standard is ok.
I don't think it's ok for Obama to make comments about his historic run as an African American and then accuse the Clintons of playing the race card when they say the same thing. It's an unacceptable double standard and I find it, as I said earlier, disingenuous, dishonest, and unethical.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #36
53. Well, that thread was useful in at least inspiring your post.
It's unfortunately that I cannot recommend your post for the Greatest page.

The perspective you highlight, that there is a bigger upside than downside in having Obama become "the black candidate" is key to why another campaign would push the association. And, in my opinion, Bill Clinton's "Jesse Jackson won SC" comments after Obama's landslide victory was the final proof.

Thanks for your common sense post.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
48. Now why would bill Clinton intentionally
make a racial issue going into SC that has a large black population. That would be totally counter productive. Why would you go in to SC and alienate the voters that you need, Bill Clinton isn't that dumb..
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:03 AM
Response to Reply #48
62. Oh, come on. Why would Bill be reluctant to lose SC, if it enhanced benefited Hillary's chances?
I believe that the Clinton's are in this to win the nomination, not to win the SC primary as their primary goal.

If Bill thought that an Obama who transcends race, as the earlier primaries indicated was beginning to happen, posed a threat to Hillary's nomination, Bill would want to counteract that public perception of Obama. To the extent that the voters' image of Obama could be pushed closer to that of Jackson (someone with limited appeal to white voters), Obama might win the SC primary (as Jackson did), but would not be a threat to a white candidate nationally (any more than Jackson was).

If you believe that Bill would never have done anything to hurt Hillary in SC (even though she probably would have lost there anyway, though by a much closer vote), if the Clintons thought they could pigeonhole Obama in the process in such a way as to take away his ability to transcend race in appealing to voters, then you either think less of Bill as a campaign strategist or that he is not as much of a "no-holds-barred" campaigner than most of us think he is.
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Just watched in Idaho. Making promises that sound very much like things
Bill Clinon already did with Americore, and work Hillary had already begun with healthcare and energy. He offers hope and a dream but nothing really substantive except to say he was against the Iraq war from the beginning (although he never really had to vote for the IWR). I really think he is in over his head and a lot of people who aren't polled, are not fooled. I am still angry about his remark that he would get all of Hillary's supporters but she wouldn't get votes from his supporters. It is the most divisive statement of the campaign thus far.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
54. re: "angry about his remark ... she wouldn't get votes from his supporters"
Yeah, I'm angry about that, too; but not at Obama. My anger is directed at the media* for spinning it as some sort of divisive comment rather that a factual statement about their supporters' demographics.

Obama has pulled-in far more Independents and Republicans, as well as new voters, than Hillary has, and opinion polling shows that Hillary still has high negatives outside of the Democratic Party. It is unlikely that she will be able to attract anything near the degree of independents and disaffected, crossover Republicans that Obama could.

Further, Obama has said that he would support the party's nominee, and I'm sure he'll urge his supporters to do so, as well. But just as we've seen every time a candidate leaves the race, the former candidate's endorsement has minimal effect on to which other candidate his supporters will switch.


* p.s. My email Re: the same sent to KO after his, yet again, characterizing Obama's comments as divisive.

    Subject: Re: Obama comment that Hillary may not get "the votes he got"

    Keith and Howard (Fineman),

    Is it so difficult to recognize that Sen. Obama has pulled-in votes not just from "young people" and "African Americans," as you suggest, but that he has received more votes from Independents and Republicans than Sen. Clinton?

    Why must the news media, i.e. you!, try to spin Obama's comments as some sort of subtle threat of party disunity? Obama is stating what I would think is common knowledge... that Hillary Clinton has high negative numbers, in opinion polls, and is less likely to bring in critical Independent and crossover Republican voters.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
56. Re: "it is the most divisive statement of the campaign so far"
Really?

Putting aside my previous post on how Obama's comment is only divisive through the inference of the listener, it's more divisive than...

... rationalizing Obama's landslide win in South Carolina as not all that important, 'cause, shucks, Jesse Jackson won the state twice?

... saying a vote for Obama is "rolling the dice"?

... intentionally distorting Obama's position on the Iraq resolution?


It is the most divisive statement of the campaign so far, if you want and choose it to be. If you have a realistic understanding of what he's saying, rather than listening to media spin of the comment (because the media's looking to generate another dust-up), then you see it's not any more divisive than pointing out that Hillary Clinton has better support among female voters.
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Rock_Garden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. I do agree that he whipped it up way too much.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. You DON'T KNOW Clintons like you think you do. THEY brought up race
through their surrogates and through their own subtle and not so subtle remarks, and they did to APPEAL to voters who they believed had a bias against blacks.

THAT is why so many people who DO KNOW The Clintons knew EXACTLY what they were doing.


You think this was the first campaign they ever pulled that crap?
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. I disagree. And if you look at the timeline and the facts...they do not support
your contention. It is hard to overcome the media hype intellectually, but if you look at the facts and the time line you will see.

And frankly, they are not stupid. The only person who would benefit from racial animosity is Obama.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #25
57. Re: "the only person who would benefit from racial animosity is Obama"
I must disagree with your statement, and suggest you read this poster's comment... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

'gist: Were Obama to be successfully branded as "the black candidate", he would begin to be grouped with "the black candidates" of yesteryear... Jackson, Sharpton... and his credibility as a politician with a wider base would be diminished, affecting the voting in later primaries. Obama has a LOT to lose by having the media begin to project him as "the black candidate."
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. You're suggesting that the Clintons didn't know...
the breakdown of voter demographics in South Carolina. They did and so did Obama. Considering that 50% of the Democratic voters in South Carolina were black, who do you think had the most to gain by making race an issue in South Carolina? Who do you think had the most to gain by reminding Democrats in South Carolina that Obama is black? Sorry, but I don't buy your argument.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. And Bill chose to appeal to the OTHER STATES where the NEXT primaries were being held.
Edited on Sat Feb-02-08 01:44 PM by blm
They gave up on SC and went directly PAST it with that rhetoric. Geez, this was basic politics 101. They knew exactly what they were doing and so did EVERYONE who knows them.

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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. With what rhetoric?
And I should remind you, the Obama camp felt that it was imperative that they win South Carolina, because they had lost the momentum they had coming out of Iowa. But what rhetoric are you talking about?
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #32
58. It wasn't about South Carolina. It was about branding Obama ...
... as "the black candidate," hoping the media would pick-up on it, and with the benefits coming in later states where voters would then associate Obama with lesser black candidates of the past, Jackson and Sharpton. Pretty simple, and eminently obvious.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Well, I've lost respect for both Clintons
It's a sorry shame.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Because of a frenzy of media spin
Just like the republicans did in the 90s. My, my arent you in good company?
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. I don't need media spin or Republicans to help me in making my own judgments
Thanks, anyway.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
61. Ditto. My shift began immediately after Iowa ...
... when the Clintons turned-up the dirty tactics, and Bill came out with his "fairy tale" distortion of Obama's position on the Iraq war resolution. I was an Edwards supporter at the time, but was disgusted by the dirty politics being employed against one of our own by one of our own.

And the unethical tactics continued up through the Florida primary.

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Levgreee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
19. I've heard the clintons say BLACK/BROWN etc. 20x more than Obama has
Obama has tried very hard to avoid race, because he doesn't want to seen as the black candidate... that would be to his detriment.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
37. "Obama has tried very hard to avoid race..." this is hogwash.
He plays it both ways. He's always talking about how historic his run is. What do you think he means by that?

I was watching CNN around the time of the South Carolina primary when this race flap was going on. They showed a clip of Obama talking to an audience of mostly African Americans. Blitzer and company pointed out that Obama was using certain cadences and inflections in his voice that are more common among African Americans and perhaps more effective. I heard what they were talking about, but it didn't bother me. I saw it as politics as usual. Hillary would talking differently if she, for example, was talking to a bunch of southern farmers. But what did bother me was when they blamed the Clintons for forcing Obama into doing that. Now that really took the cake. To see all the CNN talking heads nodding in agreement seemed, well, surreal, almost insane. It was then that I decided to wean myself away from this untoward, tangled mess we've gotten ourselves into by avoiding the news. It will be difficult for me to vote in this election, no matter who the nominees are.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. Agreed. It's totally unfair that he's black.
Sometimes he even talks like he's black, which is completely playing the race card, because, you know, when Hillary does it it just sounds creepy. And black people seem to want to vote for him, which means they must all be stupid sheep who vote entirely on the basis of race, and would vote for him even if he was Alan Keyes. Plus, he's tall, so he looks down at Hillary, which is a really, really arrogant and offensive thing for a black person to do.

That about cover it?

Oh, and when white people bring up race in the form of posting ridiculous threads about Obama's "playing the race card," there's nothing racist about that. Nothing.
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DiamondJay Donating Member (484 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
22. in every obama speech "asians and latinos, blacks and whites"
he does that in every speech to make race the reason to elect him
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intheozone Donating Member (839 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
28. Well said. I also perceived that it was the Obama camp
using the race card to its advantage. Obama continued using the race card until he started getting criticized about it, then he tried to back off. And don't forget, Michelle Obama was on the campaign trail telling the crowds that black voters should wake up! We don't need a president who is willing to play the race whenever he is taking heat! Obama is just not ready, he needs to grow more and be more experienced. Then he won't need to game the campaign with those types of tactics.

Shame on anyone who would accuse the Clintons of being racists. They are either lying, delusional or too young to remember the 90s!
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. Good post. I totally agree.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. This is why an African-American will always have trouble winning
This election proved it. If Obama doesn't win this time or doesn't get on the VP slot, I don't see this happening any time in the near future. Racial tensions are still as present today as ever; they're just hidden rather than in the open. But it doesn't take much to tap those feelings.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. I disagree. Obama wouldn't have gotten this far...
if "racial tensions are still as present today as ever." Though I don't like some of the tactics the Obama campaign is using, my primary complaint with him is his lack of experience. Now, I know he's been going around making the argument that experience is actually bad, i.e., the Bush administration, but no one should accept that argument, and it's a dangerous argument to disseminate, especially on our impressionable country, and particularly Obama's youthful audiences. Ironically, I see Bush as an example of electing someone to office who doesn't have adequate experience. You put someone in the White House who doesn't have qualifying experience and then that Commander in Chief surrounds himself or herself with more experienced people and you get the Bush administration. How slow Americans are in learning. How quickly we forget.

Had Obama just focused on proving himself to be a good senator, as he promised the people of Illinois, until 2012 or 2016, he'd probably be elected to the presidency. If he doesn't make it this time I don't think it will be due to race, but his lack of experience. You are making a mistake if you believe that people who don't support Obama don't because he's black. That's certainly not why I don't support him. If, for example, he had Colin Powell's experience, or if it was Colin Powell himself minus his Republican Party affiliation and minus his stint with the Bush administration, he'd be my guy.
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sampsonblk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
42. The 'race card' is an idiotic invention of racists...
in a weak attempt to innoculate themselves against charges that they are extremely fucked up people.


Race is one of the most important issues that exists in America. But nowadays, racial issues are not to be discussed. Even alluding to it in the slightest way is referred to as playing the race card.

What a dumb, transparent trick some of us have fallen for.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Yes, it's one of those terms that people create meaning for...
and use it to their advantage in unsavory ways. Our political community is making mincemeat out of the English language.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
47. good point- like "tree-huggers" for those who point at global warming
and expose the gluttony of people from "industrialized" nations.

peace~
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Political Heretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #42
77. Thank you.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-02-08 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
50. What a crock o'
shyte..you're the one bringing up race..DUH :silly:
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Thanks, but I'm not a player in this primary race.
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Lucinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
51. I couldn't agree more. And if he loses, I think this will be why.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
55. Personally
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 03:58 AM by Jim4Wes
I don't think its right to charge either campaign with playing the race card. Rather I think it should be viewed as something that was expected to come up if the contest became close. Why, because people other than the candidates themselves wouldn't be able to shut up about it. Supporters, bloggers, pundits, Statesmen, civil rights activists. Everyone had to have their say on race. There was no avoiding it really.

As to serious concerns, I don't have those either. Both Hillary and Barak would make fine Presidents, it is my opinion, Hillary would achieve more of what she set out to though, and make fewer mistakes.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #55
67. I agree, accept that Obama really hurt Hillary in the black community...
by claiming that her and Bill were bringing up race to hurt his candidacy in an underhanded way, when actually they hadn't said anything that Barack hadn't already been saying. That's the crux of my complaint. Obama is being disingenuous, hypocritical, and manipulative in an underhanded way. It lowers my opinion of the man.
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:12 AM
Response to Original message
59. Bill Clinton pulled out the race card, not Obama.
Don't accuse him of that just because he responded to BC's cheap ruse.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #59
68. How did Bill Clinton use race against Obama?
Seems counter intuitive, don't you think?
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margotb822 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
60. Read ESPN magazine
They have professional athletes voting for Obama because he is black...it's wrong and contgious!
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
64. The Obama people talk race constantly. They're obsessed with it.
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sylvieb Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
65. What if Obama were WHITE?
As a research student studying political science, we get told often by our professors that Barack Obama would win this election hands down if he were a white man. But from all the discussions and forums I've seen on the subject on the internet, people seem to be saying that his skin color is NOT an issue. So, I've decided to run a little experiment here and I want to know, how many of you think that it would make a difference to your vote if Barack Obama was white?

I created a poll where you can vote anonymously if you want, so don't worry, you can answer honestly. Please help me out by voting, my thesis could do with the help!! (also the results are pretty surprising, so check them out)

http://www.pollsb.com/polls/poll/6047/if-barack-obama-w... ">http://www.pollsb.com/polls/poll/6047/if-barack-obama-w...
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. I think if he was white
he wouldn't be getting a free ride from the MSM. The talking heads would be all over his connections with Rhizo. So really it's comparing apples and oranges, I think he is being treated with kid gloves by the MSM in fear they may be called racists. Just like the Republicans have bullied the MSM into being soft on Republicans so they are not accused of being biased. If Shrub and Dickhead were Democrats they would have been calling for their impeachment years ago.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. I agree with you, too. I've been amazed at how little scrutinity Obama has gotten...
Edited on Sun Feb-03-08 02:12 PM by ginchinchili
from the MSM and how they can't praise him and Michelle Obama enough, even though Michelle reminds me a lot of Hillary. Expect to see her running for office within the next few years.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #71
78. I haven't read Obama's book but from what I have heard
he admits to using cocaine. This puzzles me because everyone on this board and people on Air America
have been making comments about Bush's alleged cocaine use for years. I haven't seen any evidence at all that GWB actually used cocaine. I have heard accusations that he was arrested at one time for it but the records disappeared. Maybe they did, who knows, but how can anyone prove it either way. But Obama actually admits it and gets a free pass from most Democrats and the MSM. You can bet the farm on one thing the Republicans won't give him a pass on it.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #65
69. I think your professors are wrong.
If a white guy with as little experience as Obama has ran for the Democratic nomination at this point in time he wouldn't get anywhere. Why would anyone give him serious consideration when there was someone like Joe Biden, for example, who was arguably the most qualified to be president--not to mention most likely to trounce a any Republican opponent in the general election--among all the candidates, and he didn't even survive the Iowa caucus. No, being an African American has been a huge advantage for Obama. If for no other reason this has given him endless, priceless exposure.
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Aviation Pro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
70. But I will still vote for him in the GE....
...

The Goal: Remove Republicans....
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. If that was the real goal of Democrats they would have nominated Biden.
He would have guaranteed the election for the Democrats.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
73. One thing I don't get about Obama is
why he isn't telling everyone that his mother was white and his father was black.
Instead he is running as a black man.

I think the message of an inter-racial marriage is a very positive one, and I don't understand why he isn't using it to
his advantage as part of his unity message.
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ginchinchili Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. That's a good question.
I've wondered that myself. The answer is probably that it works better for him to run as a black man. He may also be concerned that some of the more backward members of our nation may be offended over the image of an interracial couple, even more so than a black couple. Notice when he talks about making history he doesn't say it will be the first serious half African American running for the presidency. As you've seen me state many times regarding my support of Joe Biden, I'm really sick and tired of the disingenuous, prevaricating, manipulating, liars that keep running for higher office in this country. Obama is no exception.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-03-08 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
74. Obama's Swiftboating of Clinton on Race worked in SC.
Why should he end a winning strategy?
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