So let's say that my daughter's soccer team....

[CoffeeCat]

...decides to have a soccer tournament. A really big one.

Gaggles of 7-year old girls chat up this tournament and spend weeks practicing for
the big day.

Then, the City Council says that an official soccer tournament cannot take place
because the City Recreation Department failed to file the required paperwork.

The soccer tournament is canceled. The girls are crushed.

Although the City Council canceled the official tournament, the soccer field is
on public property. They can't stop the girls (or anyone) from playing soccer
on the field.

On the day the canceled soccer tournament was supposed to happen, one lone girl
shows up to the field. The other teams are absent. They were told the tournament
would not happen, so they went roller skating instead.

Standing in the middle of the soccer field--this lone little girl declares, "This
IS a legitimate soccer tournament! I'm playing in it! I don't care what any
of you say! I don't care that the opposing teams are not here! The tournament
starts NOW!"

The little girl begins kicking the soccer ball up and down the field, scoring one
unopposed goal after the other. The final score is 364-0.

Question: Just because one little girl shows up to kick the ball around, when
the officials clearly mandated that no soccer tournament would happen---and the
other teams didn't show up--does that mean that this little girl can claim "victory" and
that she won a soccer tournament?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

1. I hope that kid grows up to run for president on our side.

[CoffeeCat]

4. Great point...

She is brave. She's tenacious. She's got moxy coming out of her shin guards!

But, the question is...Did she win a soccer tournament?

[thereismore]

2. I am crushed. I am in tears and I can't read the last paragraph. Hell I am even typing by memory..

[Barack_America]

3. It's the only way I've ever won a soccer game.

Lol. Just kidding.

Very interesting point, however. I think the obvious answer is "no".

[Metric System]

5. Huh? What's your point? All three are on the ballot this time. n/t

[CoffeeCat]

10. But ALL of the little girls agreed that there was...

...no tournament.

All team members agreed, and knew that there would be no "official tournament".

Just like all of the candidates agreed that this election
would not be legitimate--and seat delegates.

So actually it is a valid analogy.

Only one person showed up, claiming "victory"--as in Hillary this evening at
her PR event, same as the one little girl on the soccer field.

[Metric System]

43. Well I see it more as 3 kids playing for fun and the little girl just kicked the boys' asses!

[Maven]

6. False analogy -- all the candidates are on the ballot.

NEXT!

[CoffeeCat]

13. Sure....all of the candidates are on the ballot...

Just as all of those little girls were on the team.

However, only one little girl showed up on the soccer field to declare
victory in a soccer tournament that never happened---AND (stay with me now,
here's the big finish) only one woman is showing up to an election event
that "celebrates her victory" in a legitimate election that never happened.

Get it?

Are ya with me?

Get it now?

I can hand hold all night...

I'm here for ya!

[Maven]

21. Yeah, except the tournament is happening.

That's the problem with your analogy.

If she wins more votes than the other candidates, SHE WINS MORE VOTES.

Can you understand that? I can walk you through it.

The delegates will ultimately be seated, so the only difference it will make is that the delegates from FL won't count toward actually determining the nominee. But it will "count" as far as indicating voters' preferences before Super Tuesday. And it will ultimately count at the convention. I know that's inconvenient for you, but it's reality.

[CoffeeCat]

24. No...not true...

The election is a public event. Anyone can show up. However, those who show up have
been told that it's not a legitimate election. The votes won't count toward delegates.

That is in line with the tournament analogy. The City Council can't ban people from a public
soccer field. Anyone can show up and declare that a single-person tournament happened, but
the question is....does that mean that the person won a soccer tournament and can declare
"victory" after winning a tournament when it clearly was not a sanctioned, legitimate event?

[Maven]

26. What are you talking about, legitimate?

"However, those who show up have been told that it's not a legitimate election." Now you're just making things up as you go along. The election is being sponsored by the Florida Democratic Party, in derogation of DNC rules. However, from the VOTERS' point of view, the election is real. And it will be reported on. That's what voters care about--VOTES--not DNC party mechanics. The big game here is really Super Tuesday, anyway.

And this is not a "single-person tournament." ALL THREE CANDIDATES ARE ON THE BALLOT. Obama voters and Edwards voters will be showing to vote along with Clinton voters.

And fucking Obama and his people could wind up screwing us in the GE because their concern is squelching any mention of Clinton getting more votes than he did in an important state.

[MagsDem]

49. well 2 million of them showed up, so I guess they didn't give

a damn if some blowhard told them the game wasn't on.

[PassingFair]

52. Analogy works pretty well for Michigan, though...

don't it...

[peacebird]

7. Perfect analogy! Except the little girl probably wouldn't get a trophy....

whilst the the candidate will twist arms until she gets the (clearly mandated unofficial) delegates seated to vote for her.

[joshcryer]

8. False delimma, not comparable.

[rinsd]

9. Flawed analogy because all the teams are there just without official sanction.

Once upon a time Obama said he would do right by the voters of Florida.

Today he has repeatedly sought to demean them.

[Nailzberg]

11. The real reason the analogy is flawed is this.

After scoring her first goal, the opposing team gets to kick off. So she could not have scored 364 goals.

[joshcryer]

16. Haha, wow. Epic ownage.

[CoffeeCat]

20. Rules Schmules!

See, that's the entire point.

One person can't conduct a legitimate soccer game--and declare victory
in a competitive race---when there was no race or opposition present.

In the same vein, one person can't conduct a legitimate election--and declare
victory in a competitive race--when there was no race or opposition present.

[Nailzberg]

33. I've been a soccer player, coach, and ref. Couldn't let that one slide.

[rinsd]

34. But there is opposition present so your analogy is flawed.

[Barack_America]

12. To Posters 5, 6, 8 and 9: Only Hillary will be in Florida tonight, presumably to claim "victory"

When she does so, will it be a real "victory"? I think that's what the OP is asking.

But thanks for apparently agreeing that Michigan's primary was a complete crock.

[rinsd]

14. OP argues Hillary was only one at the tourney.

That was shown to be false.

Your counter is that she will be the only one having a victory party?

Kind of tough for the other guys to pull that off if they lose, no?

But hey by all means Obamtons should continue demeaning FL voters in their zeal to discount Hillary's win.

[Barack_America]

18. She'll be the only one claiming that there was a tournament at all.

That's the point.

[busymom]

32. So then voters didn't show up for all candidates?

[Barack_America]

35. There's a stadium down the street from my house. I can go there now...

...and root for my team. I can bring my friends along with me. That doesn't mean that there will be a game.

[busymom]

36. But that's why the analogy is wrong....

There IS a game.

[Barack_America]

41. Not technically. n/t

[rinsd]

37. But the game is being played regardless. Its whether its officially sanctioned.

Geez you guys can't even keep up with your crappy analogies.

[busymom]

42. They're a hoot, aren't they...

The election is happening...the voters are showing up and voting....DUH! If they want to pretend that no vote is happening then so be it. Obamamania....

[WillParkinson]

15. A victory is that...

The analogy between this and a soccer game isn't quite accurate. The people of Florida agreed that there was an election and their will is the one that counts. Not the Democratic convention or any of the talking heads.

[joshcryer]

17. Hillary will be in FL tonight to let them know in person she will seat their delegates.

Just FYI.

[Barack_America]

23. Your belief is that Hillary is going to throw a coup and take over the DNC?

In case you didn't know, seating Florida's delegates is up to the DNC, not Hillary. (or Obama or Edwards)

But I welcome her/them to try a power grab. Then the DNC will steer all of the remaining superdelegates towards Obama.

[knitter4democracy]

44. Just like she did in Michigan? Oh, right. She never came here.

Grrrrr.

[Lucinda]

25. They are all on the ballot. FLorida gets MSM coverage so they know who is running.

OBAMA has run ads, so yep. Real Victory.

[conservdem]

19. Your analogy makes sense to me. And to answer your question,

the one little girl, who reminds me of a woman I do not respect and who has little integrity, can claim "victory," and some may believe this little girl or approve of her conduct.

I remain hopeful though that most will see that this conduct is not tolerable from a grown woman.

[David Zephyr]

22. Precisely. Once again the Clintons abuse power and the rules.

No wonder half of the country hates them.

[conservdem]

27. Agreed. I wonder how the other half does not dislike her.

Point of disclosure, I was for Biden and now support Obama (although I wish he would toughen his stance on boarder security and immigration).

[grantcart]

28. Here's my problem with your analogy

If you think that using any form of logic will result in an intelligent conversation with the Clinton apologists here

then you will have to suffer the same fate of Sisyphus.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysiphus

[Barack_America]

31. Heh. n/t

[MagsDem]

51. What logic did she use?

She pretends that all three candidates weren't on the ballot when they were, and further she pretends that 2 million voters showing up is an empty stadium. Just because the game wasn't sanctioned doesn't mean the winner lost. The game was still played by all the opponents, and the winner still won.

[Joe the Revelator]

29. I think the analogy was great. K/R

[busymom]

30. Let's change this to fit the facts....

...decides to have a soccer tournament. A really big one.
Gaggles of 7-year old girls chat up this tournament and spend weeks practicing for
the big day.

Then, the City Council says that an official soccer tournament cannot take place
because the City Recreation Department failed to file the required paperwork.

The soccer tournament is canceled. The girls are crushed. All members of the team continue to practice though.

Although the City Council canceled the official tournament, the soccer field is
on public property. They can't stop the girls (or anyone) from playing soccer
on the field.

The soccer players each have their supporters there cheering them on and one soccer player even airs tv
ads to support him even though all of the players agree not to do any self-promotion. This same player has a big machine up and running to support him in the area....as do all of them. All of the players names are on the roster of players to play.

On the day the canceled soccer tournament was supposed to happen, all of the teams have supporters who show up. None of the other teams supporters are absent. The players were told the tournament
would not happen, but they still showed up to play the game unofficially.

At the end of the day, one lone player showed up for all of the faithful fans who had made their way to the field for the game in support of the unoffical game.

[stillcool]

38. Jeez...maybe the Patriots can do that.

but I'm really looking forward to the game.

[Ediacara]

39. Oh but the other girls showed up

They just kept telling themselves that the game didn't count.

[DS1]

40. Yes, but that one girl showed up via a 'soccer mom' SUV and contributed more to Global Warming

than all the other kids, as well as supporting big oil interests.

[MadBadger]

45. In the words of George Carlin: Fuck the Children!

[Generator]

46. She can if she was married to Bill Clinton

that's just the law, m'am.

[MagsDem]

47. Well in this case.....

They were all on the ballot (ie - they all "showed up") and 2 million people came to cheer them on, and voted for the girl over her opponent by a margain of 50% to 30%. So yes, she won the soccer tournament. They just refused to count the game. Doesn't mean she didn't win it fair and square.

[Coexist]

48. Please don't forget to add that the City Council offered to pay for a tournament

on a different day, and the teams said no.

[Steely_Dan]

50. Brave Little Girl n/t

[mondo joe]

53. Insanely stupid and false analogy. All the candidates were on the ticket, they are all

known.

Voters voted. There was no self declared victory.

[Riverman]

54. Hillaryous! No Bill, No Hill! Anybody really think she could get to

where she is, running for US President without being married to Bill Clinton? if you do, then OMFG what the fuck are you not inhaling? Edwards and Obama are not running on their spouses coat-tails, are they now!

How desperate she is to run out onto the field after the game was cancelled and score unopposed goals and then claim victory! Are you Hillarinistas loco? What Banana Republic is this? Viva Hillary, Viva El Presidente!

[mdmc]

55. That little girl is a patriot!

:patriot: