When will pissed off DUers recognize how popular Kerry is?

[felonious thunk]

Poll question: When will pissed off DUers recognize how popular Kerry is?

The man has won significant majorities in most of the state primaries. He's won with grace and has run a strong campaign. He made a comeback when it looked like he was dead in the water. He's got a pretty solid left leaning voting record, excluding a few areas. He's got the party excited and united and ready to take on Bush. A comeback kid, with a strong record, with great international experience.

So how long will it be before the people on this board stop blaming everyone else and accept that the American people actually like Kerry?

[revcarol]

1. Now I know what they mean when they say "push poll."

x

[jamesinca]

9. I just don't like him

The option was not given in the poll that Kerry is just not exciting. I personally have a wet sock that is more fun. But that is just me. I will vote for the guy in November if he is the one opposing Bush, but the thought makes my skin crawl. I will have to be one of those mindless people that votes on the party line with no conscience come November, the other option is that waste of sperm from Crawford.
You left those out of your poll. If everybody wants to call me names, tell me what an idiot I am etc.... Fine go ahead, I figure it this way: One less Kerry supporter that will irritate me by putting me on ignore.

[Sinistrous]

20. Did you see his speech last night?

I'll put my level of jaded-ness up against your's any day, but Kerry's speech in D.C. last night removed any doubts I had about his being a good president.

[Ficus]

28. Really?

I thought it was boring. I changed the channel after a while because he's so long winded and boring.

[Lisa0825]

35. I thought it was very boring too.

There is just something about his voice that is irritating to me. He talks about excitement, but there is no TONE of excitement in his vocie whatsoever. It's almost comical.

[DNA]

47. Ditto

There's a thread about what might make Kerry lose. I don't think he will lose. I think a cold cut could win against Bush this year. But one Kerry drawback is his overall lack of charisma, imagination and passion.

[jamesinca]

37. Did not see it

I really don't care if I missed it either. When he said the IWR that he voted for is not the one the Bush acted on, he just pissed me off beyond forgetting or forgiving. He voted for NAFTA because he said he liked some of the side provisions. Guess what John Kerry we already have somebody like that in the WH now, that person is blaming the economy on Clinton still. That person is blaming no WMD on the CIA and everybody else.

I don't care if John Kerry was wounded 1,000 times in Vietnam and did 46 tours over there, that was 30 years ago. As he has said, get over it. I have gotten over it, and he has not done a thing since he was wounded. He got into public office and has rested on his laurels since.

Somebody in here said in a thread that Kerry was probably one of the 5 closest people to Paul Wellstone. Guess what I read the Conscience of a Liberal and Kerry is not mentioned in there once. Bob Dole is mentioned and Wellstone even speaks kindly of him. Kerry is not mentioned. Barbara Boxer, Leon Panetta, Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, the students at the university where he taught, his wife and children, campaign managers, the miners of northern MN, the heroes of the civil rights movement, a green bus etc... are all mentioned. For somebody who was such a close friend, he sure was left out of the book. In a thread here on DU, a quote was given from an interview by Wellstone that said he enjoyed working with Kerry on a piece of legislation. So what does that mean? I think it means Kerry brings the beer and does not fart in small rooms. That legislation did not pass by the way. Matter of fact 99% of Kerry legislation fails to pass the senate. He should start farting in small rooms, at least people would know he was there. Legislation sure won't mark his presence anywhere.

With no disrespect intended, you will not match my level of jaded-ness. John Kerry is somewhere between a wet sock and a waste of sperm as far as I am concerned. He can give good speeches all he wants. I want him to act on it. I want him to do more than propose legislation that can't pass congress.

[Sinistrous]

44. I actually started to answer your post.

But then I realized that I could find no rational basis for your position, and so, have decided to put you down for a nap. Nighty-night.

[niceypoo]

46. Most kerry supporters say "Most electable" when asked

why they support him. When it comes to policys they cite other candidates.

[redqueen]

65. Oh for the love of Christ I hope you're mistaken.

:scared:

[Lorien]

66. No

it's not just you. But we'll hold our noses and cast our uncounted votes for Kerry anyway.

[kiahzero]

22. Actually not

Push polls aren't really done for a specific candidate... they're done against a candidate.

Some of our... zanier... members might do a push-poll like the following:

Considering how you feel about Kerry now, how would it affect your support to know that he is a member on an evil fraternity that secretly runs the world?

A) Less support
B) No change
C) More support

The original is just a biased poll, not a push poll.

[Snivi Yllom]

50. push push push

bulldoze, elbow, hustle, jostle, press, shog, shoulder, shove, dig, nudge,hunch, drive, force, thrust, bump, butt, ram

[Cuban_Liberal]

2. Other: 'soon'.

Let people grieve; the vast majority of them will come around in plenty of time...

[liberalnurse]

3. If I vote for kerry...I will do so

holding my nose.

[LibDemAlways]

38. I'm with you.

And I question how "popular" Kerry is. I think he was foisted on us by the party establishment and the media. Where the hell was he the last three years when we needed a strong voice standing up in opposition to the chimp? He's just another politician, a proverbial "ham sandwich" that people desperate to get rid of Bush will vote for as the alternative. I'll do it ONLY if the elec. in CA is close - but I definitely won't feel good about it.

[Iverson]

4. a curious question

A significant proportion of the American electorate believes in angels.
How long will it be before we recognize that they think that way?
subtext: How long before we line up and start believing in angels too?

[felonious thunk]

10. Like it or not, these people vote for the President

I realize that we here at DU are all way better than the dumb stupid sheeple population, which we can look down upon from our perch of intellectual superiority, but they elect the president.

[Iverson]

23. tsk tsk

You have missed the point, perhaps on purpose, in favor of a cheap shot about intellectual superiority.

Let me spell it out so that you can't maneuver around the point.

Are you arguing that majority belief makes something true?

[felonious thunk]

24. Of course not

But this isn't a belief. It's support for a Presidential candidate.

[Iverson]

26. of course, but ...

Your argumentative warrant, if I understand it correctly, is no different.

The implication is that since pissed-off DU-ers had ought to recognize how generally popular Kerry is, it follows that pissed-off DU-ers should support Kerry.

If that indeed is your line of reasoning, then it is analogous to my pissy comment about angels.

[felonious thunk]

34. No, I'm just sick of the blame game

That it's the DLC, or the Republicans, or the media or whoever else conspiring to force Kerry to be popular.

Popular opinion isn't always right, but so many people here will pick up on one thing that they don't like about the nominee and conclude that they can't vote for him. There will never be a perfect nominee. Kerry has done a lot of good, and seems to be a genuinely good man. He wasn't my first choice either, but I think he'll make us proud.

[jamesinca]

49. There never will be a perfect candidate

That sums up John Kerry very well. People that have met Bush say they think he is a "genuinely good man", he is not perfect either. Even Chenney and Rumsfeld have friends, they are not perfect either. What good has he done? Voting with the majority of the senate when the Dems were the majority or do you mean voting with the majority of the senate when the Repubs were the majority? Kerry was wounded in Vietnam, 30yrs ago. As he said, quit crying in your tea and get over it. I have gotten over it and I am waiting for him to do something at his current job not the one he had 30 yrs ago.

He may make us proud someday, but until he does that I will not have a bit of use for him. If somebody wants to tell me that he does not need to do more, he was wounded in Vietnam. To that I say this, put him back in a war and let him be useful. Right now he is in public office and he needs to be useful there, not some war that ended 30 years ago. To those people I say quit crying in your tea and get over it.

I have no use for John Kerry!!! A million people can be wrong, it is called gross error.

[library_max]

95. "I am waiting for him to do something at his current job"

Wait no longer. Here are some links just for you:

www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_1210b.html

www.johnkerry.com/communities/glbt/glbt2.html

www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1208d.html

There's more at the website, but these will get you started.

[library_max]

41. There's a little teeny logical flaw here.

The number of people who believe in angels cannot be used as proof that angels exist. The number of people who like somebody is an objective measure of the popularity of that person. That's what "popularity" means.

[Iverson]

56. nice try

My point was elaborated more fully in subsequent posts. Still, I'm sure that with diligence you will eventually catch me in an error.

[library_max]

70. That's the easy part. I've done that many times, including this one.

The hard task, at which all my diligence has so far failed me, is catching you admitting an error.

[Iverson]

100. bwaaa ha ha ha ...

(wiping away tears)

Thank you for that.

[trotsky]

25. Well said.

We at DU are hardly representative of even Democratic Americans, let alone ALL Americans. Did I get my dream candidate? No. Will I vote for Kerry? Hell yes, and will be proud to do so.

[sangh0]

88. A curious response

It may surprise you, but one can understand that someone is popular without liking them. I recognize that American Idol is popular, but you won't catch me watching.

[Iverson]

99. no surprises here

It may surprise you, but you're going a long way toward making my point for me.

[SaddenedDem]

5. Uhhhh, I don't know....perhaps....

When the cheerleaders for Kerry realize that voter turnout just took a nosedive.

[trotsky]

86. Turnout where?

Last night on the news in MN they reported the highest turnout for caucuses in recent memory. Places were stuffed with standing room only. From what I've heard, this has been pretty common throughout the primary in many states. Where is turnout down?

[DNA]

6. Not to cause trouble

But there's an internal inconsistency in your post. How can Kerry be popular with the party if he's not popular with DUers? Aren't most people here in the party? Why aren't we all excited?

To answer your question, I accept that you like Kerry and believe he is all the things you say he is. I am not at all excited about voting for Kerry. I think (know) that his candidacy was a self-fulfilling prophesy that took hold of the group until it became groupthink. That's not really popularity. I'll vote for Kerry but I don't see him at all as you do.

[felonious thunk]

8. My point

is that DUers aren't always exactly in touch with the rest of our party. That we sit here calling everyone stupid who doesn't agree with us, and claiming that they are fools for not thinking the way we do. Your post illustrated my point exactly. You give no one any credit for actually comparing the candidates and voting for who they like. You assume that it must be some other force that made people vote Kerry, rather than actually thinking he's a good candidate.

[DNA]

14. first

I didn't call anyone stupid. Second, I'm not assuming anything. The polling data will show you that Kerry was not that popular until he became the frontrunner. This happens all the time in groups, and the Democratic party is a group. In fact, it's more likely to happen than not to happen. Most people will go along with the group with which they identify than speak their own mind. It's an established psychological fact. I think only 25% of people will stick to their own beliefs when challenged by the group or finding themselves in a minority. In the case of Kerry we saw this happening before our very eyes. I talk to Democrats all the time in real life. I saw when the unions and the environmental groups started backing Kerry. It wasn't until he was shoved to the front. You saw this too. This year there's a lot of panic among Democrats and for some reason a lot of people think only Kerry can beat Bush. I happen to think this is wrong thinking. I think anyone can beat Bush. Whatever tho'. Kerry was a product of groupthink and that's different from actual popularity. If anything Dean and Clark and even Kucinich were products of popularity.

[felonious thunk]

18. What is your proof of this assertion?

I understand the concept of what you are saying, but how about giving Kerry some credit for coming back from looking like he was out of it. He looked finished and came back strong. That's a huge advantage to him in the fall. Look at what he did when he became popular, he won. I don't care if it was "groupthink" or not, the man came out and won, and won strong. You can't deny that. Do you realize how unlikely it is for a candidate to get over 50% in a primary? Especially when there were 4 or 5 other viable candidates? That's popularity. Look, I supported Clark, but it's time to recognize what Kerry has accomplished and get behind him. He's the leader of our party now, and I for one would rather be part of the winning team than be angry for another four years.

[DNA]

48. That's what I'm saying.

Psychologically it's not unlikely. More often than not people will vote with the majority, especially when they think there's something very important at stake. You can't deny the Democratic party feels this now.

My proof? Polls showing stronger emotional/individual support for other candidates. The fact that so many groups waited to see who the frontrunner was before endorsing. The fact that exit polls show people vote for Kerry because of this "electability" issue and for other candidates based on their own personal ideology. The fact that most Kerry supporters stress electability. The fact that the polls and exit polls confirm my experience with Democrats I know. One friend didn't bother to vote because he knew Kerry would win and he wanted Dean. A neighbor felt she had to hold her nose and vote for Kerry even though she didn't like him but that seemed to be what everyone else was doing. Another friend worked for Kerry and told me she agreed with me on his weak points but she had so little faith in the American electorate in general that she felt we needed a decorated veteran in order to win over people who vote based on superficial issues. Another friend supported Kucinich but was worried he couldn't win so she voted for Kerry. Another friend voted for Dean because he was convinced he was the best candidate. Another friend didn't know who to vote for and was shopping around until someone gave her a clue. Another friend went to hear Edwards speak and was overwhelmed with the impression he made. I don't really know anyone who voted for Kerry because he matched their beliefs most closely or because he inspired them so much they couldn't help themselves. All the evidence I have tells me the exact same thing. Kerry was a product of groupthink. His selection was a self-fulfilling prophesy. An idea takes hold of the group and becomes dominant. I'm not saying it's bad necessarily. I don't think mayors across the country spontaneously decided to marry same-sex couples. That's groupthink too but I'm glad they're taking a stand. In the case of Kerry it's indifferent. Anyone can beat Bush at this point. If people want to believe only Kerry can there's no harm done. It could easily have gone another way. People might have decided, as they did earlier, that only Dean could beat Bush. They would have been right because in that case, like in Kerry's, the group would have taken over so only Dean would have been the nominee.

[MrPeepers]

40. But...

How did he become the frontrunner? People didn't start jumping on a ship that everyone thought was sinking out of "groupthink." The fact is, he didn't go into Iowa as the frontrunner. He had to fight for those votes, he had to earn them, and THAT is what took him to the top. "Groupthink" alone can't make a candidate. Look at Dean. He was propelled by a tremendous surge of exactly what you are talking about, but when people got down to the candidate himself, they couldn't see Dean as President of the United States, and his campaign imploded. So who has the real popularity?

Peepers

[DNA]

52. Not true

Groupthink alone can make a candidate. I highly recommend a book called Why Societies Need Dissent. It taks about these situations. Arthur is leaning toward candidate X, but he tells Betty he read an article saying candidate Z was most likely to win. Betty liked candidates X, Y and Z, in that order, but takes Arthur's comment on candidate Z as an endorsement, and since she admires Arthur's ideas, she starts thinking of voting for candidate Z. Betty tells Carl that Arthur and she are voting for candidate Z, and Carl, who was going to vote for candidate Y, decides his candidate will never win. By the time David hears of this it looks like a groundswell for candidate Z even though really X and Y were more popular with the voters. That's how it works and it happens all the time. In that book it talks about how easy it is to get people to vote as a group regardless of what the individuals in the group think and know on a personal level. Psychologists can readily reproduce groupthink in experiments because most people would rather be with the group than outside of it.

[redqueen]

67. Thanks for the book recommendation

Some of those studies are frightening. :(

[MrPeepers]

94. No, you've missed the point.

Before Iowa, no one was saying that "candidate Z was most likely to win." The thing is, everyone was wondering when Kerry was going to drop out, and everyone was talking about how Dean had the nomination pretty much wrapped up. No one was saying that Kerry was most likely to win in January. Period. So this accusation is quite baseless. Kerry had to pull himself up by his bootstraps to pull this election out, and he did so, and admirably.

Peepers

[mhr]

7. Only When He Beats Bush!

eom

[Loonman]

11. When Dean ascends to Sainthood

On the wings of angels with close 4-part harmony singing.

[underpants]

12. NPR-78% of those NOT voting for Kerry are happy with him as the choice

No link I just heard it coming into work.

Folks it's time to get on your horse.

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. Just because he's popular

doesn't mean I have to like the man and I'm certainly not excited about him. He's a bore. Yeah, I'm pissed. I haven't even voted yet and he's already crowned the king. I have every right to be pissed. :grr:

[DNA]

16. There is that problem too.

Soon they'll cancel every caucus and primary in every state after Iowa and New Hampshire vote.

[shanti]

30. i'm sure that can be arranged

come november.

[59millionmorons]

15. January 2013, When he leaves office

nt

[LWolf]

17. Popularity

is not always intelligence at work. In my admittedly limited (almost) 44 years here on the planet, popularity is rarely an intelligent judgement.

In my admittedly neglible opinion, Kerry's popularity comes from one factor: fear.

Fear and disgust with GWB, making the sham of "electability" the top priority for voters. I understand the disgust; I share it. I just don't throw away the platform because I fear to lose.

I don't think many of those voters examined platforms and made an informed choice on the issues. I think they were swept along by fear and by the herd. I recognize that popularity, I just don't value it.

If the majority of America likes Kerry, then they should elect him. I don't dislike the man, myself. He is certainly better than GWB.

I am not excited about Kerry. I don't see that in the foreseeable future. I am not united in any cause other than to remove GWB. It really has nothing to do with Kerry.

I'm also not pissed off. Saddened, yes. Pissed off, no.

Should Kerry get the delegates at the convention, and get the nomination, I will accept the party's choice. Whether I agree with it or not.

Is that good enough for you, or should we all depart and vote 3rd party, as another DUer suggested?

How many DUers will accept responsibility for alienating possible allies if the nominee loses in November?

[messiah]

19. Is he popular or are people afraid of Bush or just voting for a winner

I sure did see and hear a lot of people yesterday that voted for Kerry because he was a "winner":shrug:. When I spoke of Dennis Kucinich and the majority of people did not know who he was in Ohio.

[redqueen]

68. Someone told me they met a whoman from Ohio

who didn't even know he was running!

She said he was great, though. :)

[ordentros]

21. some folks, like myself, don't care about popularity...

and want single-payer, which Nader backs.

this online poll suggested that Kerry voted badly once even though he supported welfare-to-work, the patriot act, the iraq war, NAFTA, etc...

[Ficus]

27. this poll sucks

so there

[deutsey]

29. It's not about popularity so much as it's about leadership

I want a nominee who will lead us to victory in November AND who will lead the nation in making substantial progressive changes in this country.

I kind of think Kerry can accomplish the former...I have huge doubts that he can do the latter, but I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

[shanti]

31. sorry but

i don't think he's *that* popular. he's just the only choice. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

32. Sorta depends on how quickly people quit rubbing salt in the wounds.

It'll happen faster if people don't insist on getting their 'pound of flesh', IMO...

[Iverson]

33. too sensible

Besides, people have to go with their strengths. :shrug:

[Padraig18]

36. Sad, but true.

Vitriol and a strong penchant for petty revenge is all a few posters seem to have going for them... *sigh*

[library_max]

43. Lemme ask you a question.

If the situation was reversed, and Dean was the putative nominee, wouldn't you be asking respectfully that DUers put aside their differences and support him? I strongly suspect that you would. So how is it unreasonable that felonious thunk and other posters are doing the same now for Kerry? How is that "vitriol and a strong penchant for petty revenge"? Nobody has said a single nasty word about Dean or any other candidate here.

[felonious thunk]

51. Well to be fair, I wasn't really polite

I'm not sure this was "petty revenge" in that I supported Clark, but I'm just tired of so many DUers refusing to support someone because of one bad vote here and there, or one position they don't agree with. We have this 'never compromise' attitude, and that just doesn't work in American politics. We have to compromise for the greater good, and no candidate will ever be perfect. None will be able to satisfy 300 million people, or even the 50 million that will vote for them. For whatever reason, people like John Kerry, and recognizing that the bulk of my party is in favor of having him be our nominee, I back him strongly. He seems reasonable, and perhaps he'll even take our opinions into account when he's the President.

[Kanary]

71. "We have this 'Never Compromise' attitude"

Tell ya what..... how 'bout you change places with me for a while, and deal with the prospects I have ahead of me, then we can talk on a more "level playing field", as the pundants like to say.

I already saw one conservative Dem make big cuts to the safety net, and push lots of people to the very edge of existence. Since I'm on disability myself, I naturally have realistic fears of what one more conservative Dem will do. He shows no inclination to stand up to the REpubs.

Once you've stood in my shoes, and live on a day-to-day basis of seeing the inevitability of Not Surviving more cuts that are almost SURE to come, then maybe you'll understand just why "a bad vote here and there" makes me feel quite hopeless.

I'd even feel differently if ANY of you enthusiastic supporters would say that you can see some of the problems, and are determined to come together and keep the pressure on him to improve the lot of those of us who are on the bottom.

But, what I hear is demands to paste on a smile, and wave a Kerry flag.

That may make you feel better, but it does nothing for reality.

Kanary

[library_max]

81. Reality is that we now have two choices - Kerry or Bush.

How much longer are you going to hang on to the untruth that there's no difference between the two, even as regards your situation?

Here are some things that I genuinely hope will make you feel better. From Kerry's site, his page on Americans with Disabilities:
www.johnkerry.com/communities/awd/jkrecord.html
and these are the hits from a site search on "social safety net."
search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=social+safety+net&sp-a=sp1001847f&sp-f=ISO-8859-1&sp-x=all

I don't know if the second one will work, but if you follow the first one to his page, you can search "social safety net" for yourself when you get there. Kerry is clearly committed to supporting Americans with disabilities and repairing the social safety net.

[DNA]

57. I wouldn't

Not that I was a Dean supporter.

What I don't understand is this notion that we all have to walk in lock step. The world is not going to cave because people support other candidates in the primaries. We don't have to all suddenly love Kerry (or Dean or Bob the Builder) and never express any doubts or reservations. This isn't the Communist Party in the Soviet Union. If people can't vote their conscience in a primary, when can they? Why even bother having primaries? Just have the party leaders pick a candidate and we can all worship him after the fact. I really don't understand this need to attack everyone who isn't marching right behind Kerry without questioning. I have no doubt Kerry's gonna win and no doubt he's better than Bush. I still don't believe he was the best Democratic contender. Unless this is 1984 and I'm Winston, you have to allow me to have and express that thought.

[library_max]

75. But nobody asked you, sir she said, sir she said, sir she said.

Nobody asked you not to vote for other candidates in the primaries. Nobody asked you to march right behind Kerry without questioning.
Nobody asked you to worship him under any circumstances.

The point of this thread (and felonius thunk can correct me if I'm mistaken here) is that it is now clear that Kerry is the choice of the Democratic primary voters. That all the conspiracy theories and predictions that he would crash and burn have been debunked. And possibly by logical extension, that the time for eye-gouging and crotch-kicking is over.

Go ahead and vote for whoever you want in the primaries. But it's worth asking ourselves what effect it has for the general election to keep wailing and gnashing our teeth about our nominee. Nobody's disputing the right to do it (until after the last primary), but what good does it do, for you or anybody?

[felonious thunk]

85. You said it much more eloquently than I did

Thanks library_max.

[Padraig18]

61. I specifically said 'a few posters'.

Furthermore, I never directly or indirectly referred to feloniusthunk, and you can re-read my post to determine the truth of that statement.

Chill!

[library_max]

77. My apologies.

Since your message was in response to felonius thunk's and you didn't specify who you meant, I leapt to the conclusion that you meant him among others.

[littlejoe]

87. This is in a way like the PLO and the Israelis. At some point,

one side or the other needs to stop.

And it really doesn't matter anymore who started what first, or who said what to whom about a particular candidate.

The time for petty animosities is over. The time to pull together is NOW.

Having said that, I will continue to defend my candidate when called for, and I will continue to counter any personal attacks against me.

I would rather not be put into such position.

Now, can't most of us get along?

[DannyRed]

107. How about you stop, then?

Your comments on other boards are way over the top, and you making the positive decision not to post them would go a long way towards ending the animosity.

in return, I would hope, and expect that supporters of other candidates will do the same..

In addition, I personally will attempt to express the same opinion to supporters of other candidates when they "step over the line".

[MaggieSwanson]

39. IWR , USA PATRIOT Act

there are TWO votes, recent ones, that I cannot stomach.

[West Coast Democrat]

89. Wellstone voted for the Patriot Act also

That is always a weak argument against Kerry.

[MaggieSwanson]

98. I know of a candidate that did NOT vote for it.

...which is why I have gotten so involved this time around.

Go Dennis!

[mermaid]

106. And Here's A Comment I Can't Stomach...

1a. As president, would you support and work for passage of a federal bill that outlawed discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and expression?

KERRY: OPPOSE

Comments: I oppose discrimination of all kinds and my office policy
prohibits discrimination in the workplace based on gender identity and
expression. I believe that we should focus efforts on getting ENDA
passed and signed into law, and I am concerned that adding gender
identity and expression to the ENDA legislation is likely to
significantly hinder that effort.

[Dhalgren]

42. Bush is "popular", too. What's your point?

[Vladimir]

45. his popularity is kind of

beside the point. The annoyance is with his policies not his voter appeal, at least for me. I love his popularity. I want him to be more popular. I want him to win in November. Doesn't mean that I have to like him...

V

[CWebster]

53. Sort of like asking why some didn't recognise how popular

Bush has been for the past couple of years.

[YNGW]

54. I can't say its popularity.

He won Iowa and NH, and then the following states voted for him because he won there, and then the ones afterward voted because he had won the week before, and so on. People like to vote for the one who's been winning. It validates their own worthiness. Kerry's winning because people want to vote for the one who been winning, that's all.

[DNA]

59. Right you are

That's exactly what happened. Obviously so.

[redqueen]

73. What I do not understand is how acting like a freaking lemming

could possibly validate anyone's worthiness.

IMO it's pretty much an indicator of being the polar opposite of 'worthy'.

[salin]

55. prediction:

it will happen much more quickly when the cycle of taunting threads slows down. As long as folks anger remains high - not so much at the candidates - but at other posters at DU - finding a place of objective assessment (including the very strong showing of Kerry, AND the growing likelihood of dethroning bush) will return.

But as long as ones upmanships continues... then woeisus threads will continue... and upyours thread will continue ... and so on and so on and so on.... as long as this is our primary way of communicating... harmony is a long way off.

[Desertrose]

58. who cares if he is popular...will he be any good as Prez?

I don't give a flying fig if he's popular .

WTF good does that do...will he be any different than W? Is he going to do anything I think needs to be done to turn this country around?
Probably not...but then who cares about that?
Yeah, right, just as I thought.

Not you or not Kerry....all you want is my vote.

:shrug:

Peace
DR

[DuctapeFatwa]

60. He can be counted on to maintain the status quo, which is quite popular

[DNA]

64. People do dislike change n/t

[redqueen]

74. Yeah, conservative people.

I thought liberals were the type to welcome change. :shrug:

[Feanorcurufinwe]

79. If 'status quo' means

starting the transition to a sustainable civilization, that is.


The oil WILL run out. The other side wants to believe we can just keep drilling and drilling and that will solve our problems.

Kerry proposes to finally begin the process of moving beyond dependence on oil. Of course the longest journey still begins with a tiny step.

We need to start NOW in developing the alternative and renewable energy sources of the future. Not only is it the right thing to do in the long term, it is the right thing in the short term, providing jobs and making America more secure.



Pretending that Bush and Kerry have the same positions and policies might work when pontificating to the uninformed, but the folks here know better.


America is choosing up sides between Bush and Kerry.

Which side will you be on?

[Ysabel]

62. but is he good...

looking...?

i'm just not sure...

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. Other: after he is reelected in 2008

[Kanary]

69. If he was really "popular" we wouldn't have to "recognize" it

[RKO]

72. Hopefully now.

Kerry needs all the money and people united behind him NOW so that he can kick-start his campaign and kick some Bush ass!

[Kanary]

78. Kerry has plenty of $$$

He has lots of big money behind him.

What we need is money for organizations who will be working to keep the party focused on Progressive issues.

It's going to take a lot of time, money and effort to regain our country.

Kanary

[Dhalgren]

84. I'm sending money to DK today!

.

[RKO]

93. $32 million isn't enough...

considering that Bush has $150+ million.

[hedgetrimmer]

76. um, this is a ignorant take on the issue...

the 'murican people also liked bush... that is not much of an endorsement...

the party is not UNITED... if it were there would not be so many votes outside of the main selected, the party has continued onward with disregarding at least 10% of the democrat base and this post only further alienates that voting base.... what I have to say is this, good luck without that 10% if you and fellow democrats continue to take those votes for granted.

Just a hint, stop for a minute and go see the numbers from the individual counties... how many votes each candidate got in individual counties and see the division in the party...

Acknowledge the fact that there are democrats who will never like kerry, I am one of them... just like I don't like clinton either, or his wife... this is not because I am an idealist it is because I know we deserve better than republican lite...

With the outcome of all this it is quite apparent that there is no meat left in the stew... the republicans have won the democrats by the republicans going far-right and then the democrats going right to appeal to the republicans thus leaving the left where it was and then expecting them to go along as well... that is not going to happen... alienate the left the left will leave you behind and the democrats will not understand what happened...when they've lost.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

80. Sorry to burst your bubble, but although you may wish we weren't united,

in fact, this is the most united the Democratic party has been at this stage of a contested Presidential nominating process in recent history.


America is choosing up sides between Bush and Kerry.

Which side will you be on?

[hedgetrimmer]

101. sorrry to bust your balloon, but although you may wish

we were united we are not... 50 % of america will not be voting... so actually 50% of america is choosing up sides, well not really because some voters on each side of the illusionary division are actually choosing something different... there-for you probably got like 20 % of america choosing kerry and about 20% choosing bush... and about 10 % of the "other"... but the "other" is what counts... which illusionary side will the "other" be more likley to say F U to and make a break...

what the dems are not doing is kissing my "other" ass... and if they want my "other" vote they better pucker up.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

102. if you want someone to kya, you should stick in someone else's direction.

Maybe you will find someone to "pucker up" for you, who knows?

[hedgetrimmer]

103. Ha Ha thats funny, you made me laugh..

[Forkboy]

82. As soon as I see people offline that actually like him

[maxanne]

83. When will

pissed off DU'ers recognize how popular Kerry is?

I'm sure the regular beatings will convince us.

[library_max]

90. Beatings?

Let's see, Kerry and his supporters have been called every name in the book by several DUers and that's apparently OK. But someone points out that he has won nearly every primary so far as evidence that someone outside of a minority on DU really likes him, and that's a "beating"?

It might be time to look into growing a slightly thicker skin.

[maxanne]

92. thanks for your helpful

advice, as always library_max.

I've been called a commie, a pinko, a freeper, a Republican, and a GOP operative by some of your companeros here. I've been told to stop crying in my teacup, to fall in line, to vote ABB, and most recently that my vote doesn't matter.

I just know that the continued regimen will convince me.

It might be time to look into developing some tolerance for alternative viewpoints. It might be time to try kindness and understanding, rather than mean spiritedness.

[library_max]

97. "I've been called a commie . . . by some of your companeros here."

Here where? I've looked up and down this thread and I can't find anything that remotely resembles what you're talking about. Where on this thread is the "mean spiritedness" you object to?

Or are you trying to blame this thread and people on it for stuff you've read elsewhere, maybe weeks or months ago? That isn't very fair, now, is it? Suppose I were to start blaming you for every hateful thing other anti-Kerry folks have said on other threads. Would that be fair?

What kindness and understanding do you want that you're not getting? What would it take to make you happy at this point?

[GalleryGod]

105. Me Mean? Nope. Disgusted with Petulant Political Self-Promoting

egotists soiling the good name of "Progressives".

"DU AIN'T for YOU!" Go somewhere else. START your own movement,cause, whatever...:argh:

[library_max]

111. Maxanne, in my defense

this {insert word that would get my message deleted if I used it} had not yet posted when you complained about mean-spiritedness. Speak of the devil and he appears, apparently.

[maxanne]

112. thanks library_max

I'm afraid I didn't make myself clear enough, either - I didn't mean I was getting abused on this thread, particularly - I meant all over this forum. Sadly those particular devils are out in full force right now.

I appreciate your post, immensely. :thumbsup:

[NoPasaran]

91. Inauguration Day

But only if I get to dance with Teresa

/joke

[Piperay]

96. When he becomes President nt

[GalleryGod]

104. The Filthy 42 Can KMA.

Leave. Find another home to shit on the living room rug. I've had a belly full of you punks!:argh:

Prepare to "Cloak-it"? ENGAGE!!!!

[silverweb]

108. Today!

Think unity, people. We can't beat the GOP machine any other way!

I was for Dean, but now that the torch has been passed, it's time to band together. I thank Governor Dean for all his effort and inspiration, and as he himself promised to do, I pledge my full support to the Democratic nominee, Senator John Kerry.

:kick: Let's kick some reThuglican Ass! :kick:

[mandyky]

109. When he actually proves it by winning the GE

And I am not sure people LIKE Kerry, they just want shrub out. The real telling point will be election 2008, assuming Kerry wins in 2004.

[JNelson6563]

110. <snarf>

I think it's hilarious that we now label Bush-hatred as Kerry -popularity. hahaha!!

My prediciton for November? I don't think it'll be so much a Kerry win as it will be a Bush loss. People voting against Bush.

I'll be one of them.

Julie