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agdlp Donating Member (363 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:11 PM
Original message
Barack Obama Is Not a Constitutional Law Professor
Barack Obama has at least once, uttered the sentence "I was a constitutional law professor."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/0...

This has been repeated, uncritically. One of Sully's correspondents,
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/20...
for example. Mark Kleiman, who really ought to know better, called him a "Con. Law Prof."

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/barack_obama_/2007/12...

As Powerline noted back in April,
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2007/04/017012.ph...
this is, shall we say, a bit of puffery. Obama has taught courses in constitutional law, and so in casual conversation his students might well refer to him as "Professor." But he is listed on the University of Chicago web page as "Senior Lecturer in Law."

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/cv.html

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/ppw.html

His publications page lists his two autobiographical books, but no academic work of any sort, much less any academic writings on constitutional law. Now, given his relatively strong academic credentials and the extent of affirmative action in academic hiring, if Obama had written articles about, well, pretty much anything, he would undoubtedly have been able to get hired at an elite law school in a tenure-track position. But he didn't.

Barack Obama may well know a lot more about constitutional law than the average person, or even the average lawyer. But he is not a Professor of Constitutional Law. Nor is he an assistant professor or associate professor. At most, he's an "adjunct professor," which is not the same thing at all.

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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, Hillary said once that she was the the Queen of England!
And so was Bill!

:evilgrin:

--p!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. That may excuse his cavalier attitude towards voting rights. Or doesn't it?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
62. nope.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. What cavalier attitude? Would you elaborate? Thanks.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Since you're new here, I'll cut you a bit of slack on this:
linking to disgusting RW hacksites like Powerline is not going to help your case.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. plus andy repeating that barrack
used to be a muslim but converted
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hollowdweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. I've never heard the professor part I always just heard "taught consitutional law"
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Dems Will Win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
76. He was offered a tenured professorship at Chicago U but decided to take a leave of absence
to pursue another career path: The Presidency.

This thread is total BS.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
87. He was a lecturer, not a professor
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 10:51 PM by niceypoo
..there is a huge difference between the two. A Job offer doesnt make it so.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #87
106. JRR Tolkien was a Lecturer at Oxford
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 06:10 PM by Leopolds Ghost
despite being the world's foremost authority in Anglo-Saxon literature.

You don't get the title "professor" until you get tenure... and you
don't get tenure at a school like Uni.Chicago (one of the top three
law schools in the nation) until your career is set, you have dozens of
published and cited articles in your name and you have a staff of
low-paid post-docs (PhDs, qualified to become associate professors
at a lesser college) working under you and giving the actual lectures.

And there is fierce competition for a position in the office of a
tenured associate professor at the best universities... if you get one
as a post-doc, your career is set. Lecturers are considered faculty, NOT staff.

Never mind full professors, those are reserved for RETIRING public
officials with a law background and Nobel prize winners at a school
like U. Chicago. Full professor means you are close to emeritus,
unless it's a shitty school.
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existentialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Close enough that on the present scale of truth in politics
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:34 PM by wicasa
that it is substantially above average.

This doesn't mean that it should be passed over without comment.


But it's hardly ammunition for any major assault on his veracity.


Why heck, compared with some of Al Gore's statements that were distorted and blown all out of proportion by right wing attack machines, its mild.
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Sadie5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. I've heard this too
On MTP or Wolfie's show. Thanks for the article. There are some big ass lies out there concerning the golden boy.
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
38. One of Obama's regular supporters on DU
referred to him the other day as a renowned constitution law scholar or professor.

I sprayed my monitor.
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WHEN CRABS ROAR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. He wasn't a cheer leader ether.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #7
103. ...
:spray: That's it, he doesn't qualify for the Presidency! :evilgrin:
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick for EXPOSING deception
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:31 PM by Proud2BAmurkin
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Not surprised to see you proudly kicking deception.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. The problem is WHO is engaged in deception. NOT that this thread is kicked.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. That would be the OP. Obama does not present himself as a professor.
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:31 PM by Occam Bandage
The occasional somewhat-inaccurate statement mixed into a repeated habit of accuracy on a topic is not "deception." It's a misstatement. Candidates make them all the time.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. ooopsie --you missed this one--says he did so.



Barack Obama has at least once, uttered the sentence "I was a constitutional law professor."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/0...
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. Oopsie--you didn't read past the subject line.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. look closer at my post
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. I did. You see, I actually read posts before replying to them. That way I don't
accidentally make an ass of myself by proudly advancing something that had already been addressed.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. well, what is it about my post that is confusing you???
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. The fact that you seem to believe you have disproven
"The occasional somewhat-inaccurate statement mixed into a repeated habit of accuracy on a topic is not "deception." It's a misstatement. Candidates make them all the time."

with a link to Obama once saying "as a law professor," in a situation in which his actual title is completely beside the point.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #53
57. I made an analogy to Bush pig farm. That is all I did. Any thing else are ILLUSIONS in your head.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #57
68. Um, may I ask what the hell that has to do with the conversation we're having now?
Here, at this point in the thread?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. yeah yeah--its a "Misstatment"
The occasional somewhat-inaccurate statement mixed into a repeated habit of accuracy on a topic is not "deception." It's a misstatement. Candidates make them all the time.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. When you have one mention of himself as a "professor" among a thousand
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:36 PM by Occam Bandage
speeches in which he says "I taught law," yes, it's a misstatement--especially since at UC, he was called a professor by everyone else. I didn't even know he wasn't really a professor until the media brought it up; I just assumed he was because everyone referred to him as such.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
124. there is a huge difference between lecturer and professor
:sarcasm:
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is true
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:20 PM by bluestateguy
He was an adjunct professor or lecturer, which is not the same thing as a tenured professor or tenure-track assistant professor. Students, however, are expected to refer to a lecturer or an adjunct as "professor" or "Dr." if they hold a Ph.D.

Adjuncts and lecturers are hired on one year contracts and are not expected to do research or publish as part of their job. Their job is strictly to teach. They are paid on a per course basis.
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
97. Thank you!
Good grief this argument is annoying! It reeks of desperation! I lean Edwards, not Obama, but I recognize a stoopid smear when I see one. I have gone to community colleges, undergraduate universities, and graduate school. I have also posted jobs for community colleges, and often saw the title "adjunct professor" used. One does not have to be tenured to be referred to (or to refer to oneself) as a professor. I honestly never knew which of my professors was full time, part time, adjunct, tenured, etc., but I always referred to them as "Professor." It was the proper title for their profession.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. those labels are important to acedemics and Professor is reserved for the top level.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. And Obama's colleagues would proudly have had him as a full professor. He declined.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. yes but then he should not refer to himself as Professor.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. And he doesn't. He's generally very accurate. You can find a handful of technically-inaccurate
misstatements for any politician. There's no consistent pattern of referring to himself as a professor; only the occasional error.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #26
59. Yes, he is articulate. So slips that, on the surface, puff up his credentials raise a flag.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #59
78. I didn't say anything about him being articulate. This is like the fourth time
you've replied to something that wasn't said. Are you sober?

Anyway, I understand raising a flag, but at the same time I don't think that means that all slips are necessarily fraudulent. "Law professor," in the context in which he was speaking, and for the audience to whom he was speaking, would provide a better representation of his credentials than "law lecturer;" that sounds more like he just gave a talk every once in a while. Therefore, he took convenience over accuracy. It was a mistake, and an embarrassing one, but hardly an especially noteworthy one.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #78
90. Your round about way of saying he lied...
Because the lie, "sounds better."
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #90
116. An adjunct professor is still a professor at almost any college you go to.
At most colleges even the lowest person that teaches courses on their own
is considered a prof. And none of them have any chance of getting into U.
Chicago except as a student!!!!
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #78
91. delete
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 10:55 PM by niceypoo
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
34. Wrong - first you have to be hired on a tenure tract.
Obama would not meet the standards for such a hire at the University of Chicago.

Once hired a faculty member goes through several levels before you can be considered for a full professorship.

I guarantee you that every time someone refers to him as a "Constitution Law Professor at the University of Chicago" every law faculty member in the country throws up their mouth.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. Nobody is claiming he would have made full professor immediately. Though you're wrong on the
throwing-up bit, as both a UC alum and someone who knows many law professors.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
75. as a full professor, I can tell you they may not throw up but
they would definitely not approve of an adjunct professor's misrepresenting himself.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #75
111. Then again, he was editor of the Harvard Law Review and a sitting Senator
The only other person I can think of in office with these level of
backgrounds as an academic, in my experience, are Sen. Webb or
AU Law Professor Jamin Raskin, a frequent Post Op Ed constitutonal
law expert who is now in the (Maryland) State Senate like Obama
and who used to be with ACLU. Jamie's dad was JFK's lawyer and
he is a noted constitutional scholar in his own right. Is Jamie
a full professor at AU, which, like Chicago, is far more prestigious
a law school and far harder to get into than most places? I wonder
if he throws up in his mouth when thinking of Obama's academic record.
Once you are even an adjunct professor at one of these schools, it is
a platform for public office because you are in the top .01%.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #111
119. These are not the things academia values most highly
Not at the top schools.

He deserves credit for what he did do, but it is patently unfair to either give him credit for what he did NOT do or to denigrate the accomplishments of those who earned the respect of their peers in a profession that Obama did NOT enter, by giving someone an unearned title, or suggesting that academia ignore research achievements of the highest level in favor of achievements that are not relevant.

Take a look at any accreditation standards if you need more explanation as to why certain credentials are considered minimum and certain achievements are valued more than are others.

Saying Obama was a professor or that his achievements warrant that label is analogous to saying that the best medical researcher is the family doctor who has taken care of you for 40 years. That doctor may be absolutely the best in his/her profession, but s/he has not done controlled medical research, which takes a very different ability and skill.

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. I have a family member who had to constantly publish and get post docs for 20 years
To get where she is today. She would faint if offered a professorship of any kind at a major Research University like Chicago. And Adjunct lecturer is still professor, even if they aren't tenure track.

You wouldn't want to put it on your formal resume without the "adjunct" qualifier, but that's what you'd call it, professor

(of couse, law professors probably have special terminology like "lecturer in law" -- and still I'm sure many law lecturers are highly respected.)

Don't be put out if an uninformed person calls him a "noted constitutional expert" that sort of stuff is hyperbole from uninformed individuals.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
118. "Obama would not meet the standards for such a hire at the University of Chicago." -- Actually,
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 07:11 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Elsewhere in thread, bears repeating:

"Those are tremendous (student) ratings, especially for someone who had a day job," Professor Cass Sunstein said. "We wanted him to join the faculty full-time at various different junctures. That's not a trivial fact. . . . If we want to hire someone, the faculty has to think they're tremendous. But he liked political life."

This was mid-1990s to 2003, when he was a State Senator, long before
anyone knew who Obama was.

You can argue that Professor and U. Chicago was corruptly influenced
by Illinois State Politics to hire an "obviously unqualified individual"
but I highly suspect it was the other way around.

Anyone with a U. Chicago academic sinecure (who has a proven track record
in public policy academia) who then chooses to get into local politics is
bound to have a supportive network and do very well. MD State Senator
Jamie Raskin, a well-known constitutional scholar at AU who frequently
used to write for the Post on civil liberties issues, is on the same
track. Does it help that his dad was a lawyer for the Kennedys?
I suppose it does, but that doesn't change the fact that he's a
respected constitutional professor.
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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
73. that is NOT how academia works
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 09:31 PM by spooky3
particularly at a top school. You have to earn your way to full prof., through the ranks of assistant and associate professor, primarily through publication in top scholarly journals.

There is NO way that he would have been appointed to full prof. at a school like Chicago.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #73
113. "There is NO way he would have been appointed to full prof. at U. of Chicago."
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 06:00 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Since Obama was editor of the Harvard Law Review, you had BETTER mean this
as a circumstantial fact, NOT as a categorical claim.

Circumstantially it is true you have to teach for many, many years and/or
win a Nobel Prize before getting a full professorship at U. of Chicago.

At any lesser school Obama would have been considered an assistant professor
and put on tenure track. In fact he WAS offered tenure track despite his young age.

Most colleges don't even HAVE adjunct lecturers. Almost all faculty in
most colleges are considered profs. Assistant or associate. Full prof
at a good school means you are widely respected academic expert in a
chosen field. Of course you know all this.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #113
128. Law is different
Not an expert, but because law professors don't have a higher degree like a PhD, they've almost got to first publish an article in a law review in order to even be taken seriously as a candidate. It's insanely competitive.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #14
74. I doubt that
Obama might've been a great teacher, but to be a full professor, he'd have to have published articles in academic journals.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #74
117. You have to CONTINUALLY publish to get ANY PhD job and remain in academia.
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 06:44 PM by Leopolds Ghost
That includes Post-Docs who make $35,000 a year in 6-month stints.

You have to amass either Post-Docs or VERY good references/CV
(including numerous published articles while you were still
in grad school, i.e. you had to have been groomed by a prof
to get a by-line on the authorship) to get a professorship of
any sort at a good college. That includes lecturer. It is
almost impossible to break into unless you are VERY good or
settle for a low-paid job at a community college because you
love to teach. Even THEN you have to publish occasionally
and attend conferences simply to remain current in your field.

A lecturer is like a journeyman wireman in the electrician field.
It means you have been vetted. if you don't fuck up you could be
a tenured professor one day. In the meantime you are considered
an entry level (non-tenured) professor.

(the pool of tenured profs is growing ever smaller -- I think
there are only something like a hundred tenured research
scientists in NIH or your average prestigious university --
it is far easier to become a state legislator.)
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #117
127. Well, right
Which is why there's no way Obama could've become a full-time professor at U of Chicago - he hasn't published even one academic article. Law is a little bit different, because none of the professors have Ph.D's, though many have LLM's. Lecturer-in-law is very prestigious, but it's not the same thing as a full professor, or even an adjunct professor. Lecturers continue in their "real" job as a attorney in their field, and teach a class or two for the school. But regardless of the title, all law school teachers will be called "professor" by their students.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
52. Not true at all
I refer to adjuncts who have completed their PhDs as professor, when they are working as teachers.

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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
84. wrong. PhDs, even with adjunct jobs, are "professors"
I've been in academia looooooong enough to know.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
89. All of the professors at my university are PHDs
and the lecturers are either industry people or masters degrees.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
110. As you should well know, in a GOOD school it is almost impossible to be tenured prof
Once you get tenure and become an associate prof, your career is set
and you will likely be there till the day you die because you have
definitely "made it".

Look at what you have to get to Obama's academic level (which anyone
pooh-poohing just alienates real academics with their ignorance):

Student Faculty Aide -- Masters or PhD candidate.
Teach many actual bachelors level classes and do much of the
research scut-work at large universities.

Staff Instructor or Staff Faculty Aide -- Masters level, non-PhD.
May have years of PhD work under their belt. This is the second
lowest rung.

Post-Doc -- Low paid faculty aide. You have to have several
working for a WELL-KNOWN professor AND publish a whole bunch
of articles before you can even think of getting a salaried
position at any large university.

Lecturer -- Published and Cited, PhD with Post-Docs and an
excellent resume in the chosen field, incliding (in Obama's
case) editor of the Harvard Law Review (for comparison:
Conan O'Brien was editor of the Harvard Lampoon. Once you get
either of these positions, it is hard to top later in life,
prestige-wise.) A lecturer is pre-tenure track, salaried
position. A Lecturer at any lesser school is considered
an assistant professor FROM THE GET GO. If they stay put
and don't move away from U. Chicago which is possibly the
most selective in the nation, they become an Assistant Prof.
This is only at the most prestigious schools. Most colleges
all faculty (who teach courses) are considered profs.

Assistant Professor -- tenure track. PhD with numerous
published and cited articles, a pure academic with at least
one or two assistants usually his or her own grad students
who are conducting research under him or her. OBAMA WOULD
HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED A PROFESSOR at any college of a lesser tier.

Associate Professor -- you have tenure and are widely
respected school-wide and teach large classes of 100
students or more. People show up just to hear you speak
at conferences. Schools are clamping down on tenure
to keep costs down, due to competition over highly-skilled
academics who schools with huge endowments, like Chicago,
are willing to pay big bucks for.

Full Professor -- at a REALLY GOOD school like Chicago
you don't get this unless you are world famous or close
to being emeritus (retired).
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
115. NO, "Professor" is reserved for the top 5 levels - Adjunct, Assistand, Associate, Full, Emeritus
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 06:27 PM by Leopolds Ghost
And it is EXTREMELY HARD to get into the top 5 levels in a really good school like University of Chicago.

A family member had 20 years of research under her belt and she was fortunate to get a STAFF (non-faculty) position at a comparable research institution. If she had been 20 years younger (ageism) or afforded to spend 10 more years in staff post-docs until she found a professor WILLING and CONNECTED enough to "groom" her and provide the sort of high-level networking you claim is so evil (both State Senator and professor of any sort at U. Chicago are extrenely high level) she would have been able to put in for Adjunct Professor at a good university. So I take this BS personally.

Did the Chicago mobbed up political machine "pull strings" with such a prestigious college to get him considered? If so, only because they saw potential in him as a future politician to look out for, with a heartwarming life story and better academic record than you or I could hope to muster, being the editor of the Harvard Law Review and all. Does the Chicago machine suck? Well yeeah and all Illinios Dem politicians are forced to depend on it and most of them aren't inspiring lecturers with respected academic track records.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:22 PM
Original message
Laurence Tribe, Obama's professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law,
said Obama was the best student he has ever had. That's pretty impressive...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurence_Tribe
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
12. Because he didn't want to be a professor, not because it wasn't offered
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:24 PM by WesDem
White House hopeful Barack Obama could have given it all up for the gentler life of a law professor.

A Sun-Times review of student evaluations from Obama's 10 years of teaching part-time at the University of Chicago Law School shows that students almost always rated Obama as one of their top instructors -- except for one quarter in 1997.

"Those are tremendous ratings, especially for someone who had a day job," Professor Cass Sunstein said. "We wanted him to join the faculty full-time at various different junctures. That's not a trivial fact. . . . If we want to hire someone, the faculty has to think they're tremendous. But he liked political life."

-snip

Some Obama critics say because he had the title of "senior lecturer" he should not call himself "professor." U. of C. professors said Obama -- who practiced civil rights law for a time and stopped teaching in 2003 -- could have joined their ranks whenever he wanted.


http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/701490,CST-...


Welcome to DU :hi:
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. if O. would have accepted the promotions it would have required original research, publishing ect.
which is time consuming.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Once he took the job, yes. He preferred politics.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. no problem.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. Especially when he had higher aspirations, and knew it began at
the local level, helping his community.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
28. He didn't want to be a professor
He wanted to be in politics. The rest is bullshit.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
58. Like the current VP, he had other priorities.
Very few professors of any subject are able to buy $2 million dollar houses, still less secure the help of a sleazebag financier to assist them in buying the lawn.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #58
80. The year he bought the house, 2005, his income was $1.7M
The house cost $1.6M; well within in his range. He made the money on his books and his wife's considerable salary, in addition to what he earned as a legislator. The sleazebag financier was paid $104,500 for one-sixth of the vacant lot he owned next to Obama's house. You can make this sound as ugly as you like, as determined as you are to do that, but it's a crock.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0712/galle...

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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. Thank you.
That was my point. Nobody buys a house like that on a prof's salary, which is usually somewhere around 5% of what BHO made the year he bought his house. Civil rights lawyers don't usually do much better, if as well.

Interesting that you bring up the $104,500.00 for the side yard. As I seem to recall, that strip was actually appraised at $40,000. I do wonder what the extra 64K bought.

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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #83
88. The purchase of the vacant lot was for $625,000
Obama later paid for one sixth of that property, so there was no extra $64K to buy anything. I don't know what the appraisal might have been. Obama paid one sixth of the original purchase price.
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. What's with the affirmative action comment?
You could have made your point without it, and it makes your motives suspect.

Obama taught constitutional law at Chicago. His use of the word professor might be construed as misleading to the 5% of us who know the difference between an adjunct and an assistant professor, but isn't especially troubling to me.

Regarding his qualifications, I doubt U of Chicago lets just any lawyer lecture in constitutional law, no matter what their race or how good their grades were. The place is not exactly a degree mill.

Are you trying out a new meme or something?
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Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. You're gonna keep rolling that big rock up the hill, and have it roll over you on the way down,
and then do it again, and again, and again, aren't you?

Kind of pathetic, but at least it's fun to watch. What HORRIBLY SCANDALOUS THING will you have to say about Obama next? That when he was six years old, he took a cookie from the jar even after his mamma told him not to?

Redstone
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DURHAM D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
19. I read/re-read some older articles over the past few days.
In a couple the authors indicated the powers that be got him the job at U. of C. for the purpose of puffing his resume. Also, the big paying job for Michelle and the corporate board appointments were secured by major string pulling for the purpose of creating a political couple. The point is that whoever is pulling the levers in Chicago has major major influence and big bucks.

David Axelrod has been instructing/shepherding Obama for fifteen years. I did not realize until very recently that the media guy has been forming the claymation guy for that long.

It makes you wonder about the present votes, etc. Has Obama checked in with David before every vote in his career? Did David tell him to make the anti-war speech and write it for him? Probably.

Will the general public know before it is too late that there is no there there? Nope.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. HA--reminds me of how Bush purchased the pig farm so he could have his WESTERN WHITE HOUSE.
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. Do you have links?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. yes.--its called Google.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. So provide. I can't find.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. silly, I feel no need to waste my time on this as it is common knowledge on DU.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Common knowledge? I'm not the only one who thinks you're misleading at best.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. What am I misleading?--that Bush bought a pig ranch in TX?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Any of the bullshit in post 19, which is what we're all talking about.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #50
54. sorry, but 19 is not my post.


Any of the bullshit in post 19, which is what we're all talking about.
Posted by Occam Bandage
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Occam was originally posting a reply to post 19
You're the one that jumped in saying it was common knowledge.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #56
61. I replyed to 19 also.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
70. Yes. So why did you think that "Do you have links," explicitly directed at post #19,
was actually asking for links to the pig farm?
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
71. Riiight
And when Occam asked for links it was to post 19, not yours.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #54
66. And we were all replying to post 19, not to your post. Pay attention.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #35
64. Here's one
"David Axelrod has been instructing/shepherding Obama for fifteen years."

This is true. But I haven't found anything that confirms the other allegations.

From NY Times:

"Axelrod met Obama when the senator was 30 years old and coordinating a voter-registration drive in Chicago and Betty Lou Saltzman, a doyenne of progressive politics in Chicago, suggested that the two get to know each other. In the 15 years since, Axelrod has worked through Obamas life story again and again, scouring it for usable political material, and he believes that some basic themes come through: that he is not wedded to any ideological frame or dogma, that he is an outsider rather than someone whos spent years in the dens of Georgetown, that he is an agent for change and has the optimism and dynamism of a fresh, young face.... Axelrod says that his model for the Obama campaign came last year when Deval Patrick ran for governor of Massachusetts. There are many ways in which Patricks run and Obamas are similar: the optimism, the constant presence of the candidates biography, the combination of a crusading message of reform with the candidates natural pragmatism, the insistence that normal political categories did not apply, even the same, unofficial slogan, shouted from the crowds Yes. We. Can!"

Obamas Narrator - http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/magazine/01axelrod.t....

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Nobody doubted that Axelrod has been Obama's political advisor. It's the rest
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 09:24 PM by Occam Bandage
we're taking issue with.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. It was news to me
I had no idea that the two went back that far. But the rest just seems like speculation/rumor/smear.
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
42. Sorry, but the burden of proof is on the accuser.
I have heard a lot of negative things about Obama, but these are new to me.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
107. I would like links to those articles if you have them
Also,

"It makes you wonder about the present votes, etc. Has Obama checked in with David before every vote in his career? Did David tell him to make the anti-war speech and write it for him? Probably."

That's a pretty hefty thing to claim if you don't know and have no proof. Probably?

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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
114. I wouldn't be surprised, this is how Establishment candidates are made.
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 06:08 PM by Leopolds Ghost
That's why they're ALL Harvard/Yale. EVERY SINGLE ONE is groomed to be an office holder from the moment they get a Masters degree. Try going into politics without entering a "program" to groom young office holders. You often have to be EXTREMELY promising in academia to even CATCH THE EYE of the machine political scouts. It's like pro sports. This is no different from Clinton or the Kennedys. EVEN THE FUCKING COLLEGE PS MAJORS volunteering in your local activist campaign (for pay) are nothing but ladder climbers putting in their dues until they can get into a prestigious post-grad program that grooms people for public service. I've known a few. Without the prestigious post-grad, earned or bought, the machine won't let you into their fraternity and will strenuously oppose you in any primary unless you're in the pocket of a major business interest.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
36. How dare you accuse BO of self-puffery, even though it's true. You deserve all the sarcastic posts
you'll receive in this thread. :rofl:
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
108. Well, if Hillary can do it, why not Obama
35 years of experience my ass.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #108
112. I can't disagree with you. n/t
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
37. a distinction without a difference
in the minds of the vast majority of voters.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
40. This is clearly semantics. The point Barack is making is he is fully aware of the constitution ...
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 08:45 PM by cooolandrew
... compared to some representatives and senators on the hill. Which bodes well for him abiding by it in my personal opinion. I think I recall recently that he turned down a job as a professor to be an organiser taking a lower wage in the process to help people.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. it is NOT semantics in the University acedemic fields.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. And if he had been putting that on his CV, we'd have problems. But he wasn't.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
55. point taken--regarding the CV
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
60. Thanks, that did it for me, I guess I have to vote for someone who voted for the IWR
because that resolution is what has given the executive branch unchecked power to wage war with Congressional oversight, until it is repealed



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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
63. Oh.
Probably not a big deal, unless Obama has listed himself as a full tenured professor somewhere. BTW, I don't think he's even an adjunct professor. Adjunct professors work full-time, while lecturers in law will teach a class or two on the side. They usually have other full-time positions.
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bluedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
65. he did say it
Obama Was A Constitutional Law Professor:

At A Recent Fundraiser, Obama Claimed He Was A "Constitutional Law Professor." "'I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution,' Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser." (Brendan Farrington, "Obama: Bush Fails To Respect The Constitution," The Associated Press, 3/30/07)

On The University Of Chicago Law School Website, Obama Is Listed As A "Senior Lecturer In Law (On Leave Of Absence)." (University Of Chicago Law School Website, http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama, Accessed 3/30/07)

Obama Made This False Claim In His 2004 Senate Race. "Several direct-mail pieces issued for Obama's primary campaign said he was a law professor at the University of Chicago. He is not. He is a senior lecturer (now on leave) at the school. In academia, there is a vast difference between the two titles. Details matter." (Lynn Sweet, "Obama's Book: What's Real, What's Not" Chicago Sun-Times, 8/8/04)


http://wichita.craigslist.org/pol/552957338.html
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. he just can't stop LYING, can't he!
and the obamabots STILL refuse to see it, let alone BELIEVE it...
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
79. Your OP has been debunked
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Where is the OP who started this thread? /nt
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lurky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #82
86. Starting more threads like it.
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guruoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
81. More swiftboating crap to waste our time and valuable server space
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 10:00 PM by guruoo
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Lisa0825 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #81
98. Perfect response!
:rofl:
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desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
85. In other words...
kinda like a TA
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. Um, no
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desi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. Sorry tammy, I don't do kos at all
not a fan of markos...
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tammywammy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. okkkkay
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #85
126. No, a TA works for a lecturer. A lecturer is a newly-hired prof.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
93. Oh, this is a scandal that will really play in Middle America
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 10:58 PM by JVS
Cleetus: He ain't a real professor, how bouf that?
DelRoy: Adjunct Faculty! Why that's no diffrent than the local kids we hire at harvest time to help get the crops in!

:eyes:
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. More Interesting Information on Barack
The more I read the more I learn about Barack. His crown is becomung a little tarnished. :)
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goodhue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
99. He has taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago law school
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 01:35 PM by goodhue
your argument is weak at best
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #99
125. This is a Rovian attack in its purest form
* create a false issue in areas where your opponent is strongest
to distract from your own negatives (like Kerry's war record)

* rely on old or unprovable sources that can be mis-attributed
and meta-analyzed to prolong the discussion thru casuistry

* Rely on people's ignorance or hostility toward the subject
at hand, and rely on policy makers and media to keep silent
(at their bosses request) on what they know to be true in
their profession, for fear of "taking sides".

Most voters don't know, professionally, that:

-- U. of Chicago is one of the top 5 universities in the country,
and their law school may be the #1 or #2.

-- Lecturers in law are considered adjunct professors and are
given the title "professor" colloquially by students and
other professors, AS DISTINCT from staff and student aides.

Rely on people not to know this. FUD.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
100. he simply was invited to give a lecture for one class....was is not a teacher/professor
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #100
123. For several years. You try applying for a job as intro prof at U. Chicago. n/t
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
101. Ha Ha Ha! I was WONDERING about that!
It did seem like he was mighty young to be a Professor.
Adjuncts are nowhere close.
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
102. .
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #102
129. U. Chicago link: FACULTY > Barack Obama Senior Lecturer in Law (on leave of absence)
Barack Obama
Senior Lecturer in Law (on leave of absence)
1111 East 60th Street
Chicago, IL 60637
phone: 773-834-0935
email: bobama@aol.com

Barack Obama received his bachelor of arts degree in political science from Columbia in 1983, and his J.D., magna cum laude, from Harvard Law School in 1991. While at Harvard, he served as the president of the Harvard Law Review.

Prior to attending Harvard Law School, Mr. Obama directed community organizing projects in low income communities in New York and Chicago. In 1992, he directed Illinois Project VOTE!, a state-wide voter registration and education campaign.

(etc.)

Not an academic research scholar, no. But a teaching prof, yes.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
104. Oh, please.
All who teach at a university are called professors...there are adjunct professors, assistant professors, associate professors, full professors, but in everyday speech their rank is rarely addressed (it would be regarded as tacky), ALL are called professors (by students, etc.). Plus, no, adjuncts are by definition part-time (no benefits, etc.). Visiting professors are often held in more esteem than the regular full-time faculty, that's why the University has recruitedf them. Anyone in academia knows that this post is completely wrong.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
105. Professor vs. professor
If he ever wrote that he was "a Professor of Constitutional Law" that would be a lie, but if he said he was "a professor of Constitutional Law" that would be the common way to refer to his work at the university. The capital P imples a specific advanced rank, the lower case p implies being paid to teach a full semester course at a university, whether that is as a visiting professor, full professor, etc.. The two terms are *not* interchangeable.
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #105
122. Hey thanks!
:hi:
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
109. More sneaky word games by the Clintonistas
"Professor" is a common term at university that covers all, as in adjuncts, visiting, etc - they are ALL called professor.

How low will the Hillarites sink in trying to dig up dirt on a genuine, smart guy? Is it because their own candidate is so lacking in that area?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #109
120. Thank you
Sometimes, this shit just gets absurd....
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