WHAT DOES OBAMA MEAN WHEN HE SAYS "HOPE-CHANGE?"

[Orwellian_Ghost]

Please be specific.

What changes in Health Care?

What changes in military spending?

What changes in energy policy?

Changes merely from Bush Co. to a less transparently egregious domestic and foreign policy platform?

Is this just a case of getting on the bandwagon for a personality with platitudes?

Please, those who are ardent Obama supporters put some meat on the bones here.

Consider this an open thread to discuss in-depth the actual content of the Obama Hope-Change platform.

Please be specific.

[Marie26]

1. God knows. nt

[awaysidetraveler]

56. I know. Here's the answers to your questions on Obama.

Obama promotes universal healthcare, go ahead and check his site for all the specifics.

He intends to reduce military spending by eliminating pork-barrel projects, but he actually intends to raise the number of army and marine troops to deal with current threats.

He intends to end corporate welfare projects for big oil in America, and he intends bring America to 25% renewable energy by 2025. Also, he intends to give large incentives to car manufacturers that build and sell hybrids and other "green" vehicles.

The change is an absolute 180 from the Bush Co. doctrine. There will be a total switch away from oil and to renewable energy. Also, Obama is the only candidate who always opposed the Iraq war. That is one mistake we can count on him not to make.

There is some barnburning, and you may have seen the speeches, but these are not empty platitudes. Check Obama's website, it's got more meat than a Texan barbeque.

Remember this about Obama: he never said it was going to be easy, and he always said that we would be the ones to actually do it. It's a fact that the changes we're about to go through as a nation will be traumatic, and it's also a fact that we'll need a charismatic leader to pull us through those changes.

This is why I'm voting for Obama, and I hope you'll join me.

[ClericJohnPreston]

62. Sounded like a cereal box....

It's either those glib responses, or a LINK, never answers, never answers.

Scary, isn't it.........

[awaysidetraveler]

69. If my answers are too "glib" to be meaningful, then what do you define as a succinct answer?

[ClericJohnPreston]

72. Tell me HOW

he is going to do the things you enumerated? Hmmmm?

Don't you dare use the word "CHANGE" in your response....or ask me to LINK.

Specifics, not generalities , please!

[ClericJohnPreston]

79. still waiting awaysidetraveler

for answers........

[awaysidetraveler]

83. You're asking for articles of information in soundbytes--it's unreasonable.

And I think you know it. You'll simply have to do the research. It's out there.

Come back when you have a specific question in a limited field, and I'll be happy to answer.

[ClericJohnPreston]

92. The robot from "Lost In Space"

"That does not compute...."that does not compute".

[Qutzupalotl]

108. You do not add up.

The poster just summarized the candidate's platform and told you where to look for specifics. Do your own research.

[ClericJohnPreston]

117. None of you can answer yourselves......

very telling....

[Qutzupalotl]

123. And you are unable to read for yourself

but need your information in pre-digested soundbytes.

How can you still be defending this.

[ClericJohnPreston]

125. How can you not know one single policy stand without a link?

Hmmm?

[Qutzupalotl]

130. How can you expect to learn one single policy stand without clicking on a link?

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

[GalleryGod]

154. BOTH hands on the computer,Pal.

Here's my old C.O. you would've shiite yourself...

[RaleighNCDUer]

73. Does that mean that YOU are god?

In that case, I may have to re-think my atheism.

Good replies. Still support Edwards, but I could vote for Obama without holding my nose.

[awaysidetraveler]

89. Lol, thanks, I could easily vote for Edwards without holding my nose either.

If not Edwards/Obama in 2008, then maybe Obama/Edwards if it isn't too late.

[Andromeda]

119. Obama scares the hell out of me.

We need somebody with brains and experience who has a command of the issues and would be ready to lead from day one.

Obama doesn't fit that criteria but Hillary Clinton does.

[awaysidetraveler]

122. And Hillary scares the hell out of me.

We need someone we can trust.

Hillary doesn't fit that criteria, but Barak Obama does.

[Marie26]

164. Wow, God spoke to me.

I really don't have a huge problem w/Obama's platform, and it's basically the same platform of Edwards & Clinton (end Iraq, Gitmo, global warming, etc.) Substantively they are not very far apart, although Obama's positions on health care & energy are more corporate-friendly IMO. What gets under my skin about Obama is his rhetoric & his language - because in his speeches he doesn't talk about his specific positions on health care, energy, etc. but relies instead on soaring rhetoric & emotional appeals. That obviously works for some people, while to others it just sounds like a string of platitudes. I hear him say "Yes We Can" & think oh, so this is his Chavez moment. "Hope & optimism" is the Reagan moment of promising "Morning in America." "Change" was Bill Clinton's rallying cry in the 1992 election. "Unity" was the Bush 2000 mantra of being a "uniter, not a divider". It's like a greatest hits compilation of all the most powerful phrases in American politics. There's so many echoes of other leaders that I start to wonder who is the authentic Obama. It's adopting the feeling and inspiration of a radical movement for something that's ultimately quite tame & moderate. And that feels cheap & unearned to me. Just IMO. :)

[SammyWinstonJack]

2. Someone should ask him and he should give a real answer.

:shrug:

[aquart]

3. Same votes as Hillary 90% of the time. BIG CHANGE.

[VotesForWomen]

148. correct; it's one thing if you're a kucinich supporter and you bash hill, but for obama

supporters to be bashing hillary like she's the devil incarnate is laughable. they're practically the same on the issues, and hillary is more ready to be president.

[billbuckhead]

4. Just more "Morning in America"

Reaganism redux.

[Beaverhausen]

5. Unicorns and rainbows

and we all hold hands and sing kum by ya.

[lisainmilo]

136. lol

:rofl:

[BlackVelvet04]

144. .........................

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Andy823]

6. Don't hold your breath

It's still a mystery as to what changes he will make, and like you, I would like to see some "real" answers.

[kurth]

7. Don't forget Jesus Christ. It's the Hope-Change-Jesus axis

Unstoppable combo.

[VotesForWomen]

149. LOL. nt

[sandnsea]

8. Did you watch a debate? Read a policy speech?

We've posted and posted and posted. If you don't know by now it's because you didn't want to know.

It's called...

barackobama.com.

If you come back with a specific question, I'll be happy to answer it.

[jpgray]

13. No universal health care. No timely withdrawal from Iraq. No gay marriage.

Same moderate bilge that we've had from the Democrats for a long time. If he means "change" as in "different from Bush," then Hillary or Edwards have similar moderate platforms that fit the bill.

[sandnsea]

23. Not true at all

Ask a specific question and I'll answer it.

A mandate no more guarantees universal health care than mandated auto insurance does. It's a bald faced lie and it'll never pass besides.

And, Edwards DOES NOT have mandates as part of the initial implementation of his plan. It is not contingent on mandates at all. I don't know where Krugman got the idea that it did, unless he didn't read it.

Obama has been calling for a timely withdrawal from Iraq since we got in there.

And they all have the exact same position on gay marriage.

The question is who will get something done, and it is not Edwards or Clinton.

[jpgray]

26. Where's the "change?" It's almost identical to the other candidates' platforms

He no more represents a change in terms of policy than Edwards or Clinton does.

[sandnsea]

47. Actually Getting It Done

He got it done in IL, he gets it done in DC. He makes the changes. Read his record.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/legisnet90/sponsor/OBAMA.html

[ClericJohnPreston]

70. Always a link...always a link...

You see the shell game here? You must ask a "specific question".

Bwahahahahahahahahaahha.

"Read his record"......It's like mass hallucinations, no one can state what his position really is, because he doesn't have one. If your question is not phrased properly, his robots cannot answer. Just LINK. LINK. LINK.

Afraid yet?

[RaleighNCDUer]

76. You have a problem with links?

I always thought that people object to NOT getting links - you know, unsupported assertions.

Links = good.
No links = lazy ass shit.

[sandnsea]

82. See #80

[ClericJohnPreston]

94. Got a link?

Bwahahahahahahahaahhhahhaa.

Scarier by the moment!

[sandnsea]

101. I'll be glad when ignore works again

and gladder still when the primary is over and people like you crawl back under whatever rock you came from.

[ClericJohnPreston]

126. Sorry...

if you are actually forced to the uncomfortable recognition of what is obvious to all of us...YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS!

Ignore is great for your crowd. That way you don't have to address all those disturbing questions like "how" or "why" and you can stave off cognitive dissonance with your hands clasped firmly over your collective ears.

[jpgray]

90. Via compromise with the GOP? And what of his vacillating attitudes on funding the war?

It's true the Clinton talking point that he "promised" not to vote for war funds was inaccurate, but why be against the $87 billion a few years ago yet vote for war funds now? What has changed?

[sandnsea]

99. Ask John Edwards

He voted against the $87 billion and then voted for war money afterward.

The $87 billion was at a time when it was hoped there would be short term hostilities. Circumstances change, the way people vote changes. Edwards would support funding if he were in the Senate too.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

25. Yes

to all of the above.

Specific questions:

What plans does Obama have to reduce America's military spending?

How does Obama plan to insure that EVERY single American has health insurance without it becoming a burden on their livelihood?

How does Obama plan to support Unions?

How does Obama plan to eliminate corporate power in America?

What are Obama's plans to dissolve corporate subsidies?

What are Obama's plans to bring assistance to the urban poor?

Again be specific.

I've read every candidates website (at least once, twice in this case) and have watched every debate and have read more articles than you might think possible.

I have more questions and you need not be water tight. It's just a starting point but are you sure about the substance of what you are supporting?

What will Obama do about his array of lobbyists and advisers that he is in league with?

[butterfly77]

33. He will not be able to say that he will help the urban poor..

at least not a lot, because they will say he will only be the pres for blacks..I ask these same question about Edwards..not the urban poor part of it..

[sandnsea]

52. Well except HE HAS

Scroll down for the Urban Poverty speech

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

And here's his rural agenda.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/rural/

[sandnsea]

Those are not specific questions at all. GO READ

Then come back and ask a question about a policy point if you still have one.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

59. Avoidance

What will Obama do about US military contractors in Iraq?

Do I have to ask about toenails to be considered specific?

What will Obama do for the Urban Poor? That's specfic.

Any specific answers?

Look back over this thread.

There is at this point exactly nada poster(s) who have addressed the OP. Just glib posturing. What about in-depth discussions? Is that a thing no longer allowable in the post-modern political circus?

Please go into detail re:Obama's specific plan for dissolving corporate power in our political system. You can't. Not because you are uninformed on this or ill-willed but because he doesn't have one. You should admit that and challenge your assumptions on this.

What we are seeing is a well done marketing campaign. PT Barnum would be proud.

[awaysidetraveler]

63. Obama will leave Iraq--the contractors, presumably, will follow. The details are better read online

As for the poverty issue, here's what he's up to:

Barack Obama's Plan
Expand Access to Jobs
Help Americans Grab a Hold of and Climb the Job Ladder: Obama will invest $1 billion over five years in transitional jobs and career pathway programs that implement proven methods of helping low-income Americans succeed in the workforce.
Create a Green Jobs Corps: Obama will create a program to directly engage disadvantaged youth in energy efficiency opportunities to strengthen their communities, while also providing them with practical skills in this important high-growth career field.
Improve Transportation Access to Jobs: As president, Obama will work to ensure that low-income Americans have transportation access to jobs. Obama will double the federal Jobs Access and Reverse Commute program to ensure that additional federal public transportation dollars flow to the highest-need communities and that urban planning initiatives take this aspect of transportation policy into account.
Reduce Crime Recidivism by Providing Ex-Offender Supports: Obama will work to ensure that ex-offenders have access to job training, substance abuse and mental health counseling, and employment opportunities. Obama will also create a prison-to-work incentive program and reduce barriers to employment.
Make Work Pay for All Americans
Expand the Earned Income Tax Credit: Obama will increase the number of working parents eligible for EITC benefits, increase the benefits available to parents who support their children through child support payments, increase benefits for families with three or more children, and reduce the EITC marriage penalty, which hurts low-income families.
Create a Living Wage: Obama will raise the minimum wage and index it to inflation to make sure that full-time workers can earn a living wage that allows them to raise their families and pay for basic needs such as food, transportation, and housing.
Provide Tax Relief: Obama will provide all low and middle-income workers a $500 Making Work Pay tax credit to offset the payroll tax those workers pay in every paycheck. Obama will also eliminate taxes for seniors making under $50,000 per year.
Strengthen Families
Promote Responsible Fatherhood: Obama will sign into law his Responsible Fatherhood and Healthy Families Act to remove some of the government penalties on married families, crack down on men avoiding child support payments, and ensure that payments go to families instead of state bureaucracies.
Support Parents with Young Children: Obama will expand the highly-successful Nurse-Family Partnership to all 570,000 low-income, first-time mothers each year. The Nurse-Family Partnership provides home visits by trained registered nurses to low-income expectant mothers and their families.
Expand Paid Sick Days: Today, three-out-of-four low-wage workers have no paid sick days. Obama supports guaranteeing workers seven paid sick days per year.
Increase the Supply of Affordable Housing
Create an Affordable Housing Trust Fund: Obama will create an Affordable Housing Trust Fund to develop affordable housing in mixed-income neighborhoods.
Fully Fund the Community Development Block Grant: Obama will fully fund the Community Development Block Grant program and engage with urban leaders across the country to increase resources to the highest-need Americans.
Tackle Concentrated Poverty
Establish 20 Promise Neighborhoods: Obama will create 20 Promise Neighborhoods in areas that have high levels of poverty and crime and low levels of student academic achievement in cities across the nation. The Promise Neighborhoods will be modeled after the Harlem Children's Zone, which provides a full network of services, including early childhood education, youth violence prevention efforts and after-school activities, to an entire neighborhood from birth to college.
Ensure Community-Based Investment Resources in Every Urban Community: Obama will work with community and business leaders to identify and address the unique economic development barriers of every major metropolitan area. Obama will provide additional resources to the federal Community Development Financial Institution Fund, the Small Business Administration and other federal agencies, especially to their local branch offices, to address community needs.
Invest in Rural Areas: Obama will invest in rural small businesses and fight to expand high-speed

[Orwellian_Ghost]

93. Read/listen

Obama has no intentions of the US leaving Iraq, quite the opposite. Hes has been quite clear on this. He is only using rhetoric to redefine what is meant by "US Presence."

My question would be to all the Obama believers is "What will you do as he stumbles along with the continued illegal occupation? What manner of contortions will be made to defend this foreign policy?"

Have you heard this?

http://www.thechicagocouncil.org/hottopics_details.php?hottopics_id=52

"The Honorable Barack Obama, United States Senator from Illinois, unveiled his proposed next steps in Iraq at an event hosted by The Chicago Council on Global Affairs on November 20, 2006. More than 1,400 people attended the luncheon address, which took place at the Chicago Hilton."

And let me say with all due respect that you at least have been willing to engage.

Obama is in no way even remotely in allegiance with the anti-war movement.

[ClericJohnPreston]

96. You might as wll preach to a wall

as get any recognition of the shell game Obama plays from his cult.They just don't see it!

[awaysidetraveler]

113. So, you're like a republican, right?

[ClericJohnPreston]

159. I am a LAWYER and DEMOCRAT

which means I have been trained as a critical thinker, trained in manipulation and able to see it, no matter how well crafted.

FLAILING as you are to answer anything, ANYTHING, with any degree of specificity ( the ACHILLE's HEEL of OBAMA ), you ultimately resort to PURE FALLACIOUS REASONING:

1. AD HOMINEN attacks
2. STRAW MAN
3. EXCLUDED MIDDLE ( I'm either FOR Obama or I am a REPUBLICAN )
4. ARGUMENT BY QUESTION
5. FALLACY OF VIRTUE
6. CLICHE THINKING

and so and so on, but you get the point...or do you???

[awaysidetraveler]

111. Here's the post on Obama's website about leaving Iraq--it's his continual message.

And it should do your heart some good to hear it:

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

[avaistheone1]

141. Sorry Obama, you can't both fund the war & say you are ending it.

Pull the plug on the funding that is what we did in Vietnam.

[sandnsea]

64. Still no truly specific questions

that indicate you've read a word.

Iraq Security Contractors Amendment
http://obama.senate.gov/press/070928-obama_iraq_secu/

Urban Poverty plan, already posted, at that site you were told to go to, barackobama.com

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/poverty/

YOU read something. And I'll consider talking to you more.

[ClericJohnPreston]

77. Oh my God

this is Orwellian......

No answers, just links, links, links.

Not one Obamite can grasp any isssue to define, because there is NO position...just glib generalities on a website. This cult makes "Moonies" look good.

[sandnsea]

80. Read and ask a specific question

"What's his urban poverty policy" is going to be answered with a link to his urban poverty policy. You want a specific answer, ask a specific question.

[RaleighNCDUer]

86. See post 76, above.

Or should I link to it, to make it easy for you?

[Levgreee]

68. Here is how you dissolve corporation power

remove lobbyists, remove policies which favor corporations over people, adopt policies that favor fair trade, help small businesses, pass laws enforcing more employee benefits, higher pay. Most importantly, DECIDE it's worth the effort, to fight through the shitstorm the corporations bring up as they see their power dissipate.

Heck, why do you need Obama to tell you all these things? ""I"" know what has to be done to a large extent, I know it can be done through policies and politics, but it won't be easy, and it will take effort from many people.

[lisainmilo]

133. I actually have another question that the Obama camp has yet to answer.

partial letter I have sent and content of phone calls

I was researching the three democratic candidates and was trying to find out what Sen. Obama said about the republican party. What I found was even more disturbing to me as a nurse. In his interview with the Reno Gazette Journal he stated,

“There are going to be responsibilities for citizens, we got to make some difficult choices in terms of end of life care, you know…. the 20 % of patients that account for 80% of the cost…..We got to figure out how we manage the chronically ill more effectively.”

What concerns me is the “difficult choices” part and what that means. Senator Obama has left the door wide open for interpretation, does he mean euthanasia? Increase Hospice? Decrease services? What ever it it? His statement certainly raised a red flag for co-workers and myself.

I have asked the Obama camp this difficult question and have asked for clarification. Four phone calls, seven emails on four consecutive days and I still have no clarification. The people who have answered the phone have been supportive of clarification, but I have not received clarification.

I am a nurse. I work in LTC and love taking care of my patients. On behalf of them could I please get some clarification.

Still waiting on the answer I will probably NEVER get.

[OzarkDem]

75. Obama's policy is his weakness

Please keep calling attention to it. Thanks! :hi:

[sandnsea]

87. And yet nobody will debate it

Isn't that interesting.

[OzarkDem]

128. Cult of Personality

Obama's policies are the weakest of all three candidates.

[sandnsea]

131. bring it n/t

[Prefer]

9. he means just hope that it changes.

[Maven]

10. Ponies, dude.

[robbedvoter]

15. Drat! That was my line!

[ProgressIn2008]

17. Heh. I was hoping someone would say that. The ponies, get with the program.

[Critters2]

134. LOL!!

I love ponies!! Wish someone had explained this earlier!

[journalist3072]

11. I've been asking this for some time now..

1. What, exactly, am I supposed to be hoping in?

2. What comes after the hope? How does the hope translate into policy?

[butterfly77]

30. His supporters don't care...

they are hooked on a feeling...

[journalist3072]

34. Exactly...it's all about emotion. eom

[FrenchieCat]

12. You and your co-horts in this thread are so clueless......

till it ain't even funny!

Intellectual honesty is in short supply at DU.

[ClericJohnPreston]

81. Intellectual curiousity

and critical thinking skills are in even shorter supply, cultist.

[Levgreee]

14. There's some stuff in this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4200916

[Avalux]

16. Why listen to any of us? You have eyes:

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

It's best to read the information for yourself and make your own decision on where Obama stands on the issues.

[jpgray]

18. No universal health care. No timely withdrawal from Iraq. No gay marriage.

How does this represent more of a change than the other candidates?

[Levgreee]

19. He has all those things

Well, civil unions, but that's all Hillary and Edwards promise.

[jpgray]

22. Obama's health care plan is mandatory? Well, this is news

He committed to withdrawal from Iraq before 2013? That's news too.

[Levgreee]

46. He plans to start a phase withdrawal soon after he gets elected

all out, 1-2 battalions a month, within a year to a year and a half I think



A health care plan doesn't have to be mandatory to everyone to be universal. If he mandates it for children, and makes so everyone can afford it, everyone will be able to get it.

The problem now isn't that people don't WANT health care, it's that people can't afford it. I really don't see the point in mandating that everyone gets it, if we can't afford it. You realize, that costs need top drop? We can't afford to mandate health care for everyone right now. The high cost is the problem we face.

[unc70]

145. He starts and completes his withdrawal plan -- still leaves troops in Iraq

We have hashed this out repeatedly here at DU. Obama waves his hands and PRESTO he is against the war and withdraws troops, EXCEPT for all the troops he does not withdraw and except for the anti-terrorism and training and ... actions which he continues.

Read his web site and his speeches as if you were reading your insurance policy -- trying to find where they disallow covering your situation. Very clever. Very misleading. Very bad.

If you don't believe me, check my journal and then follow the linked discussions.

Obama is sneaky.

After reading that, if you still want to discuss this, come back and I will be glad to help you read his web site, his positions, and his debate transcripts.

[glowing]

155. Insurance is not healthcare and anyone in America who thinks it is,

is deluding themselves.. Healthcare comes from the Doctors.. the Insurance Co. and their million dollar CEO's decide who gets access to those doctors and who doesn't.. He's a corporate hack and when people get what they "Idoled", we will be bankrupt and a 3rd world nation..

[Two Americas]

147. who is "we?"

Who is this "we" that "can't afford to mandate health care for everyone right now" and who is the we in the statement "the high cost is the problem we face."

This is so far from even the vaguest concept of what the people desperately need - not "want" - and so contrary to the traditional liberal view that human beings are not an expense or a burden. Burden to whom? Expense to whom? To the wealthy and powerful, that is to whom. The have-nots are “too expensive” for the haves to "afford" right now.

Obama supporters can dress it up in fancy language, but again and again they betray an allegiance to the wealthy and powerful and to the status quo, and refer to the general public, especially the poor, in condescending and paternalistic terms and are dismissive of the people who were involved in the struggles of the past.

Many of us are struggling to understand what Obama's intentions are. Attempts to get clarity from Obama's supporters is an exercise in futility, until finally something is revealed that is very contrary to the traditional Democratic party principles and ideals. Apparently, Obama's supporters are getting a certain message, and that message seems to be that in order for "we" to have "progress" the traditional principles and ideals of the Democratic party may need to be jettisoned.

[Levgreee]

103. Mandatory is not the same as Universal. And yes, he plans to withdraw from Iraq before 2013

Within a year and a half, actually, phase withdrawal.

He, like the other candidates, has not said they will remove 100% of the troops, and keep some to fight terrorist activity.

[lisainmilo]

137. that is not 100 % then...?

:shrug:

[Levgreee]

28. Here is cliffnotes...

change in policies... transparency... unity... honesty... influence of lobbyists... mobilizing the people(one of the MOST important, IMO)... more, that I'll try to think of.

It is not a question you can answer in just a sentence or two, I guess Obama could go through all of these things one by one in detail, but is largely a philosophy, a way to lead, rather than a list of tips.

I'd say just read up some of his issues if you want to look for very specific things.

[ClericJohnPreston]

91. How friggin scary is this!!!!

Link, read, link, read....None of his cultists know the plan:

"all out, 1-2 battalions a month, within a year to a year and a half I think by "Levgreee" above.(emphasis added)

The seminal question of the day, when are we pulling out of Iraq?

John Edwards with no equivocation, "out within the first year".

Obama: "2013", then read by a supporter to be a year and a half ( unsupported by fact ).."I THINK".

They don't know...they really don't know!

[Levgreee]

95. Its because I don't know if is exactly a year or a yeare and a half

He is going to withdraw soon after he is elected though, and withdraw 1-2 battalions a month at least.

no I THINK. I KNOW.

From his website

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.
Press Iraq’s Leaders to Reconcile

The best way to press Iraq’s leaders to take responsibility for their future is to make it clear that we are leaving. As we remove our troops, Obama will engage representatives from all levels of Iraqi society – in and out of government – to seek a new accord on Iraq’s Constitution and governance. The United Nations will play a central role in this convention, which should not adjourn until a new national accord is reached addressing tough questions like federalism and oil revenue-sharing.
Regional Diplomacy

Obama will launch the most aggressive diplomatic effort in recent American history to reach a new compact on the stability of Iraq and the Middle East. This effort will include all of Iraq’s neighbors — including Iran and Syria. This compact will aim to secure Iraq’s borders; keep neighboring countries from meddling inside Iraq; isolate al Qaeda; support reconciliation among Iraq’s sectarian groups; and provide financial support for Iraq’s reconstruction.
Humanitarian Initiative

Obama believes that America has a moral and security responsibility to confront Iraq’s humanitarian crisis — two million Iraqis are refugees; two million more are displaced inside their own country. Obama will form an international working group to address this crisis. He will provide at least $2 billion to expand services to Iraqi refugees in neighboring countries, and ensure that Iraqis inside their own country can find a safe-haven.

[ClericJohnPreston]

100. The most telling words....

"from his website".....

[Levgreee]

107. UMMM you want to know what Obama's positions are

WHY would I not give what he SAYS his positions are, on HIS website?

[unc70]

156. You come to this discussion late and unarmed.

We have discussed Obama's vague plans on Iraq and other things. For example, here is a thread from last October following the debate where they nailed down Clinton and Obama wrt Iraq. Obama does not count "special ops" as combat. When you ever get him pinned down, it is not what you think.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Read that thread which is backed up by transcripts of Obama, then I will be glad to discuss this further. It takes apart the positions of Clinton, Obama, and Edwards and backs all the arguments with transcripts. Note particularly the two sub-threads I was in.

Obama also has the weakest health care/insurance plan among the three.

You have to be really careful with Obama's web site. He has/had a speech from a couple of years ago which is really misleading in the current context. It talks about removing troops in the context of Bush presidency, not what Obama himself is promising to do in his own.

[BlackVelvet04]

20. I HOPE you don't CHANGE your mind

and vote for John Edwards instead???

[nonconformist]

21. In-depth content? Surely you jest.

Obama speaks in platitudes.

[Barack_America]

24. Bringing the country together to get things done....

As for what he wants to accomplish, go to his website and inform yourself. It's all right there. Read. It's not our job to digest this for you.

[Beaverhausen]

27. Who has the power in this country?

It certainly isn't the people. I want to see how he is going to take the power back from the corporations and the lobbyists and the elite and give it back to the people. I want to hear him talk about that. Uniting america is a wonderful goal, but it's not enough.

[Levgreee]

32. On the contrary, the people are one of the most powerful forces, and necessary for drastic changes

I am sad to hear that people actually think the power isn't in their hands anymore. That is another indicator that things need to change, drastically.

they can't do it alone, of course. That's where the president etc. comes in.

[butterfly77]

37. They haven't done shit for the past eight years..

and there are a lot of whites who think that a black can't tell them what to do...

[Barack_America]

38. Uniting America is EVERYTHING!

It's called political clout. It's called getting people to believe they have to work with you in order to get reelected. That's what changes things in this country.

[Beaverhausen]

44. America is united regarding ending the war in Iraq. How's that working out?

without plans to get things done, nothing will get done and the power-elite keeps getting what they want.

[Barack_America]

49. America is not united on HOW to end the war in Iraq. And Bush isn't helping...

There's a big difference.

But somehow I get the sense that you're not really interested in discussing this.

[krabigirl]

45. Republicans won't unite with people who don't support their bottom line.

Or the bottom line of their corporate contributors.

[Barack_America]

51. The bottom line for any politician is getting reelected. n/t

[Beaverhausen]

54. and there you have it

thanks for being honest. He isn't really interested in getting things done, he just wants to be reelected.

[Barack_America]

84. Um no, he's not running for reelection. He's running for President.

It's the people in Congress who will need to get reelected and, thus, will need to work with him.

Nice try on that spin though.

[jpgray]

31. Restoring Habeas Corpus failed, on a party-line vote. You want to compromise on those values?

I don't believe Obama does, I believe his talk of "unity" and "bipartisanship" is for marketing purposes. They are platitudes that are effective in that regard. But do you seriously believe there is negotiating with the GOP? Bipartisan solutions? Really?

[LiberalHeart]

42. Did you miss the part where the country already got together and the majority agreed YEARS AGO ...

...on what they wanted and then we had the mid-term election and nothing changed despite a change in cast of characters? Get ready for more of the same from this guy. He wants to sit down at a table and make nice, he wants to reach across the aisle to people who would like to put our agenda on the bar-b-q grill and have it for lunch.

[krabigirl]

43. Huh?

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

29. Have you heard of this thing called the internet?

I get tired of hearing the lie that Obama has no substance to his policies. Please visit his website and read his policy positions before posting inaccuracies like this.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

36. See post #25

or did you want to delineate any of the policies that you refer to?

If I pull one up will you respond in good faith?

I've read through his website twice, it's easy reading. It is shallow and amorphous.

On every single point what is being said is essentially rhetoric that could mean anything at any given time which is to say it means nothing.

Pick one. Expand upon it.

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

61. I'm sorry I don't have legislation already written up to hand you

since it seems that is the only thing that would make you happy. If you're truly interested in more details, you should contact the Obama campaign directly, rather than going trolling on an internet message board.

[ClericJohnPreston]

106. Anyone see the irony

in your username???????? Emperor with no clothes....INDEED!

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

116. Irony? Ya think?

For the record, as is obvious to pretty much everyone, my username refers to Bush.

[ClericJohnPreston]

127. Duh....

but it has an unintentional irony as well.......

[lisainmilo]

138. Yeah! That does all of good! see post #133

you know what the responses have been?

Dear Lisa,

Thank you for contacting Obama for America. The volume of messages we're receiving has gone up since Barack's victory in Iowa. While we cannot respond individually to over a thousand messages per day, the level of interest and thoughtfulness of the comments reflected in these communications are very gratifying. Your thoughts on our campaign and America's future are greatly appreciated.

Individual citizens like you are the foundation of this campaign.



Since his February 10 announcement speech in Springfield, Illinois, Barack has spoken consistently of working together to reclaim the meaning of citizenship, restore our sense of common purpose and rally the power of millions of voices to demand long overdue change. We hope you will explore our website, www.BarackObama.com, to view that speech in its entirety and learn more about Barack, his record and his plans.

If you're writing because you want change, we need you to help us fight for it. Please sign up here to volunteer:



http://my.barackobama.com/acvolunteer



And you can get started from home right now. We've built a set of easy-to-use web tools that empower you to get further involved right now. Click My.BarackObama.com, where you can find events near you, connect with neighbors who support Barack, create your own blog, and do much, much more.

And if you're not sure you want to get involved, and are writing to express a concern or disagreement, we appreciate that as well. The open discussion we want to facilitate cannot take place without hearing from people expressing a wide range of views.

Thank you again for writing.

Sincerely,

The Correspondence Team
Obama for America

---

Here are some more useful links to help you get started:

Learn more about Barack's policy positions: http://my.barackobama.com/acissues

See Barack in person or attend a campaign event: view the Events section toward the bottom of the front page www.BarackObama.com.

Invite Senator Obama or Michelle to an event: http://invite.barackobama.com

Donate: http://my.barackobama.com/acdonate



Buy Obama Gear: http://my.barackobama.com/acstore

and now I am getting these

Dear Lisa,
Hundreds of thousands of new supporters have joined our movement for change in the past few weeks, and we want to make sure everyone knows about all the opportunities to get involved in your community and online.

Check out the resources below -- learn how you can connect with fellow supporters, organize in your neighborhood, build our national grassroots organization, and stay in touch with the very latest campaign news.

Explore these resources yourself and forward this message to anyone you know who wants to get involved.

Contacting has not worked yet!

[DrFunkenstein]

139. Try Reading His Policy Speeches as a Follow Up

You are really making yourself seem like a spoiled child. Do some homework.

[stillcool]

41. This is the same meme

they used after Iowa. I don't believe many of these posters read. Perhaps that explains the content of their posts. There are some rabid posters foaming at the mouth. Time for me to get the hell out of this forum :toast:

[unc70]

157. I have crawled into nooks and crannies of his site

I also read very carefully what his policies actually say. I read it as if it were an insurance policy where I need to see if there is any way they can weasel out of paying. In his case, it is the little things like special ops for anti-terrorism not being "combat" troops. Read what he says when pinned down in the debates.

[LiberalHeart]

35. Don't you get it? We're gonna make history, and then....

...someone will bring up that whole governing thing and a great silence will fall over the land as it sinks in that we could have had Edwards.

[krabigirl]

39. Nothing. It sounds good, though.

[Bonobo]

40. Do your own research. Obama has enough specifics if you cared.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

50. I have

Quite alot to be sure.

Is there one issue in particular you would care to advance?

Be specific.

At present the Obama home page is crashing, due to traffic I'm sure, but when it calms down will you bring up some of the exact quotes from the Web page to advance your support of Obama.

Let's start with Iraq.

If you will not will you participate with an open mind as I go through his "Issues" platform?

[Bonobo]

58. Did you mean to respond to me or the OP?

[sniffa]

48. WHAT DID THE CAPS LOCK BUTTON EVER DO TO YOU

[tammywammy]

65. LOL

[awaysidetraveler]

53. The easiest way to get these answers is to look up Obama's website, but since you asked....

He promotes universal healthcare, check his site for specifics. He intends to reduce military spending by eliminating pork-barrel projects, but he actually intends to raise the number of army and marine troops to deal with current threats.
He intends to end corporate welfare projects for big oil in America, and he intends bring America to 25% renewable energy by 2025. Also, he intends to give large incentives to car manufacturers that build and sell hybrids and other "green" vehicles.

The change is an absolute 180 from the Bush Co. doctrine. There will be a total switch away from oil and to renewable energy. Also, Obama is the only candidate who always opposed the Iraq war. That is one mistake we can count on him not to make.

There is some barnburning, and you may have seen the speeches, but these are not empty platitudes. Check Obama's website, it's got more meat than a Texan barbeque.

Remember this about Obama: he never said it was going to be easy, and he always said that we would be the ones to actually do it. It's a fact that the changes we're about to go through as a nation will be traumatic, and it's also a fact that we'll need a charismatic leader to pull us through those changes.

This is why I'm voting for Obama, and I hope you'll join me.

[unc70]

146. Is this your first time being and idealist? Can you read at the 10th grade level?

After 40+ years of reading BS, I can recognize it when I see it. This is easy to classify.

Sorry, I don't want to be rude. But please, for all our us. Take a deep breath and re-read with a critical eye. Obama is very very good at saying almost what you thing he said, just not exactly what you thought he said. For example, his health care is not universal, he does not withdraw all troops from Iraq, not even all combat troops, not does he stop combat operations in Iraq (he calls them anti-terrorism operations).

If you don't believe me, check out my journal which has entries that back up these claims using Obama's own statements on his web site and in the debates. Very clever, but very misleading.

Read the threads linked from my journal. If you still think I am wrong, come back and I will be glad to discuss further with any of you. But don't tell me how inspiring or how Obama changes everything. I remember JFK, RFK, and MLK and I voted for Jesse Jackson. I am not impressed by Obama.

[Control-Z]

55. Just curious

Was anyone specific? Any answers?

[awaysidetraveler]

57. I was. He should really go to the website though.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

60. I've read it twice

At the moment it is crashing, probably heavy traffic.

Do you have any specifics that are important to you?

How does Obama address these?

[awaysidetraveler]

78. The most important specific is his policy shift away from oil money and the war in Iraq.

Though as a white teacher working in the ghetto, I must say that his twenty five years working on poverty does impress me.

The fact that he's an African-American will also be of extraordinary value in unifying American cultural consciousness.

But that's just a bonus, in my book.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

71. No

The poster sidewaystraveler(?) at least made an honest attempt but no specifics there either.

At present the Obama homepage is crashing (twice for me) with heavy traffic I suspect, or I would have used direct quotes to prod some of his ardent supporters into further discussions about specifics.

The claims about "Universal Health Care" and "US troop withdrawal" are false. Obama has in fact stated that the US forces are integral to the "Iraq situation" and he is on record, as is Hillary and Edwards, that he can not promise complete withdrawal of US forces by 2013.

So much more.

[awaysidetraveler]

97. No, both my claims are correct. Obama's leaving Iraq and offering a healthcare solution that covers

all Americans.

Obama's statement that US forces are integral to the "Iraq situation" was based in a question on Al-Qaeda in Iraq.

Yes, Obama would return some forces--likely from an offshore location--to Iraq to fight Al-Qaeda if necessary.
Otherwise, he's out of Iraq in a permanent way.

As for the "Universal Health Care" promise, I'll concede that it's not termed "Universal Health Care" only.
What he promises is a package of affordable health insurance.
Edwards and Clinton promise "mandates" on health care.

My car insurance is also mandatory, but it's still cheaper for me to pay the fines than it is for me to pay the insurance.
Not that it matters, because I can't afford the car insurance.

That's Obama's point. Just because you mandate the health care, it doesn't make it affordable.

His solution is complicated, but it amounts to coverage for all Americans and should be examined in depth on his website.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

112. Re-read

what you just wrote.

You are stating illogical items.

There is no "Al-Qaeda" in Iraq per se that is a fabrication and what is called as such is created by US presence. But even that doesn't get to the depth of dishonesty and pandering that the Obama handlers use when discussing Iraq.

Obama is thoroughly and unequivocally committed to a heavy US presence in the region.

It's not termed "Universal Health Care" because it ISN'T Universal Health Care it is quite simply a managed plan that subsidizes certain portions of health care through tax dollars and benefits primarily Insurance brokers. Obama's "Health Care Plan" was designed by the "Health Care Industry" who lace his advisory board.

[awaysidetraveler]

118. No, you're either not reading his stuff, or you just don't like what you're reading.

Obama is committed to a heavy US presence in Afghanistan, that I'll acknowledge.

Obama is committed to working with and protecting Israel, that I'll acknowledge.

He's leaving Iraq, and he may leave other countries in the Middle East. It depends on how fast he can get us out.

Obama doesn't take heath care money. You can check opensecrets.org for the info on that one.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/david-cutler

This is a good article on Obama's healthcare plan. I'll acknowledge that there's room for debate there,
but I have to admit that I prefer Obama's plan to "Hillarycare."

Edwards would have been nice, but Obama's plan is also quite credible.

[lisainmilo]

142. Actually he told the Reno Gazette Journal......

There were no real differences between John Edwards healthcare plan or Hillarys healthcare plan and his. I about choked!

Listen: RGJ: http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080115/VIDEO/80115026

[Orwellian_Ghost]

165. Not yet

Still "hoping." Pun intended.

[Seabiscuit]

66. He just means he wants to be an "historic figure" as first black President. Nothing more.

For him everything is "me me me".

[VotesForWomen]

150. i was going to say that. nt

[Muttocracy]

67. FYI, Obama is on C-Span now - not sure if it's live or speech from earlier n/t

[OzarkDem]

74. If elected, we'll always be hoping he changes

and starts working on fixing the country instead of supporting his corporate sponsors.

[1corona4u]

85. Maybe it came to him in a 'dream'.

[Czolgosz]

88. He means racial change, which is not insignificant, but he does not mean any substantive change.

[awaysidetraveler]

104. No Iraq war and a policy that ends lobbyists in Washington and oil money reliance isn't substantive?

Of course it is, it's very real change. And it's now.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

115. How specifically does Obama end lobbyists in DC?

Does that include bundlers?

Is Obama not now involved with lobbyists?

How familiar are you with the financing of Barack Obama?

This is not a grass roots campaign.

[awaysidetraveler]

121. Here's the specifics. It's not perfect, if that's what you're wondering.

But there's no other candidate offering a better solution.


Barack Obama's Plan

Shine the Light on Washington Lobbying
Centralize Ethics and Lobbying Information for Voters: Obama will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records, and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.

Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.

Support Campaign Finance Reform: Obama supports public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests. Obama introduced public financing legislation in the Illinois State Senate, and is the only 2008 candidate to have sponsored Senator Russ Feingold's (D-WI) tough bill to reform the presidential public financing system.

Shine the Light on Federal Contracts, Tax Breaks and Earmarks

Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a "contracts and influence" database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.

Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Barack Obama will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients — or tax earmarks — are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.

End Abuse of No-Bid Contracts: Barack Obama will end abuse of no-bid contracts by requiring that nearly all contract orders over $25,000 be competitively awarded.

Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.

Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama's Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.

Bring Americans Back into their Government

Hold 21st Century Fireside Chats: Obama will bring democracy and policy directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national broadband townhall meetings to discuss issues before their agencies.

Make White House Communications Public: Obama will amend executive orders to ensure that communications about regulatory policymaking between persons outside government and all White House staff are disclosed to the public.

Conduct Regulatory Agency Business in Public: Obama will require his appointees who lead the executive branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can see in person or watch on the Internet these debates.

Release Presidential Records: Obama will nullify the Bush attempts to make the timely release of presidential records more difficult.

Free the Executive Branch from Special Interest Influence

Close the Revolving Door on Former and Future Employers: No political appointees in an Obama administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration.

Free Career Officials from the Influence of Politics: Obama will issue an executive order asking all new hires at the agencies to sign a form affirming that no political appointee offered them the job solely on the basis of political affiliation or contribution.

Reform the Political Appointee Process: FEMA Director Michael Brown was not qualified to head the agency, and the result was a disaster for the people of the Gulf Coast. But in an Obama administration, every official will have to rise to the standard of proven excellence in the agency's mission.

[lisainmilo]

143. I appreciate that....Thank you! n/t

[Bluebear]

98. Just "get the BAM", pipe down, & quit asking so many questions.

[PondoNavyNuke]

102. Why are you asking difficult questions?

[Tulkas]

105. Change From Dishonest Politicians To Honest Ones, Hope instead of Fear

All three dems agree on the issues, you need to dig into the details to find any separation at all.



This is not about issues anymore, it is about character and creditability. Two things that the Clintons don't have.

[ClericJohnPreston]

109. NOT ABOUT ISSUES!!!

HAS THIS BOARD NOW CERTIFIABLY LOST IT'S MIND?

IF NOT ABOUT ISSUES, WHERE IS THE CREDIBILITY OF YOUR CANDIDATE? HOW DO YOU MEASURE THAT CREDIBILITY?

OH, I KNOW..WITH PONIES, OF COURSE.

[ClericJohnPreston]

110. k&r

Because I want this community to read this thread!!!!!

[Tulkas]

114. They Agree On The Issues

How can it be about issues when they agree on them?

[Critters2]

135. They don't agree about issues.

Edwards and Obama don't agree about issues. Edwards is more progressive on every single trade and labor issue. It IS about issues. And the scary thing is that people don't get this, and will vote for a personality.

[unc70]

158. They do not agree. Obama keeps claiming that, often to obscure his actual position

Obama tried that once again in the SC debate and once again Edwards called him on it. It is like all the other fuzziness in Obama's positions. When pinned down, Obama is the most conservative of the Dem candidates on the majority of issues.

[Critters2]

120. It means whatever you want it to mean.

That's how he's getting votes.

[FrenchieCat]

124. I think DU needs to start giving out some kind of intelligency equivalence test

prior to granting membership here. Folks are acting soooo stoopid here, that it ain't even funny! :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4199786

[ClericJohnPreston]

129. Talk about unintentional humor....

"I think DU needs to start giving out some kind of intelligency equivalence test"
Posted by FrenchieCat

RES IPSA LOQUITUR

[FrenchieCat]

132. Sorry, typing in my second language......and hit the wrong key....

I don't use spell check either!

[Bluebear]

152. "I then said, "give me some of that" and the guy shook my hand...

with the same hand he had just clasped with Barack's. A woman friend of mine who was standing next to me saw me shake hands with the guy. I turned to her and said "He just shook hands with Barack," to which she responded..."Hey, give it up." We then shook hands...I call this hand-shake scenario the "BAM" because, descriptively, it takes a bit of Obama's name and it's the sound of a collision, of People Coming Together!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=4057783

You were saying?

[ErnestoG]

140. After eight years of this shit mess, ANYTHING looks hopeful

Seriously, Obama has it easy on that note. The Bush regime was a cherry of a platform to launch a campaign of change.

[cooolandrew]

151. I will let the man himself explain specifically, Enjoy...

Video link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MGi12RspA

[deacon]

153. He doesn't. No details, Edwards gives details. n/t

[ClericJohnPreston]

160. A link again...always a link...

Why? Because the mind struggles to frame an answer, when there is only a position as firm as a cliff notes outline. There are no real specifics, just "glittering generalities" as to a framework, WITH NO SPECIFICS, OR, DEFINITIONS.

In other words, people with less inquiring minds, project what they want to see, because there isn't any substance to begin with.

This was the OP's point and has been well proven by the responses!

[ClericJohnPreston]

161. KICK

[ClericJohnPreston]

163. Kick

Maybe recognition will get one Obamite to start THINKING.

[jackson_dem]

162. "Hope" he will be what you imagined him to be, not Bill Clinton -2.0