Obama sure picked a fighter in Kerry. Do you all remember

[BenDavid]

that Kerry told us all "that he would make sure every vote was counted". He would fight for all of us and not concede until every vote was counted. If I am correct, Kerry sent out a mailer asking for donations so that he could do this on election night after bush had been declared the winner.I would think Kerry should reimburse the money back to those folks which sent in money for him to contest the election, but what did the FIGHTER do? Kerry conceded on Wednesday November 3, 2004.

Kerry said "he didn’t challenge the official results because he lacked hard proof and anticipated a firestorm of criticism if he pressed the point."
Kerry also refused to back a resolution challenging the fairness of the Ohio vote.

WOW! Such a fighter and now obama has him, and if I am not mistaken Obama said: "Election theft won't be tolerated"...Well heck, if he says he's going to fight, just like Gore and Kerry promised that they were going to fight, that's good enough for us - right?
HELL NO!

[book_worm]

1. I see you knock Gore in your last paragraph as "Gore and Kerry promised that they..."

if you don't recall Gore fought all the way to the US Supreme Court. What would you have done? And by the way Obama didn't pick Kerry--Kerry picked Obama.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

2. If your hero Bill had kept it in his pants we might not be in the predicament we're in today.

But you want to return him, and his wandering pee pee, to the White House.

[mondo joe]

3. Bullshit Ann Coulter lie.

Bill ended his tenure with historic high approval ratings.

It's not his fault Bush cheated or that Kerry is a wimp.

Please keep your Ann Coulter talking points to yourself.

[george_maniakes]

4. kerry a wimp?

Not willing to throw mud with as much vigor as his opponent, sure, but wimp? When you do what he's done for his country, then we'll talk.

[mondo joe]

6. Yup, wimp. Whatever he did in the day, by the time he got to the presidential

campaign he was a wimp.

[ProSense]

9. Bill is a liar who cheated on his wife and begged Kerry for an endorsement

So?

[mondo joe]

15. Ah, another crotchsniffer shows up.

:lol:

[ProSense]

Classy people support Bill, huh? n/t

[Major Hogwash]

25. You mean like Carville?

Or Dick Morris?

[george_maniakes]

17. I have a feeling he's been called worse by better people....

considering his lifetime of accomplishments and sacrifices, and your decision to trash the man in that manner. How did he lose his manhood in your eyes?

[mondo joe]

18. I'm sure he won't mind my saying so then.

:-)

[george_maniakes]

22. of course not, but it makes you look like an asshat.

But if thats fine with you, hey, its a free country.

asshat = calling a decorated war veteran who than decided to speak out against that same war a wimp, because ???

[mondo joe]

23. I've been called worse by better.

:-)

[george_maniakes]

30. Not surprising, considering you think calling kerry a wimp...

does the man any justice. I have a feeling you have no idea what experiencing war is, otherwise you would never put the words wimp and kerry together in the same sentence.

[mondo joe]

31. That's okay. I can live with being called an asshat.

Hope you have a good night.

[george_maniakes]

34. Serves you right for insulting a man like kerry because???

have a good night.

[protect our future]

67. I wonder why Bill and Hill did nothing to help Kerry get elected. Don't you?

Could it be because, if Kerry were to become president, the Clintons could not take back the White House in 2008?

[mondo joe]

71. I don't think that's true at all. Hillary shared her donor base - a significant contribution

to the cause - and Bill was having a little problem with heart surgery. But just weeks out of surgery and he was on the stump for Kerry.

[Unbowed]

75. A very good point.

I remember a lot of talk in 2004 about a Hillary Clinton run in 2008. It was bandied about while Howard Dean was still in the lead. It didn't stop when Kerry was the nominee. It was always there as a not-so-subtle subtext. There was also a lot of subtext in the media and among the Democratic establishment that a Bush victory was a foregone conclusion long before we even had a nominee. There was a lot of half-hearted chest-beating against Bush, but there were also quite a few Democrats ready to roll over on '04 before the race even began. The Clinton 2008 run was being touted when Kerry wasn't even a blip on the radar screen. Cynical me, I believe Kerry came a lot closer than he was supposed to. Must have made some powers that be rather nervous.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wisteria]

39. Clinton fatigue / immorality was directly responsible for Gore Losing.

It rallied the Repubs and some Dem's around Bush.

[mondo joe]

44. More RW BS.

Gore ran a tepid campaign, and the Repubs suppressed the vote, followed by the SCOTUS handing Florida to Bush.

[Bluerthanblue]

51. facing ugly reality is not easy for you-

it isn't easy for anyone- but that doesn't alter the truth.

And just because someone disagrees with you doesn't make what they say "right wing bullshit".

You aren't St Mondo Joe- the democratic idol.

You are nothing more or less than any of us.
And your opinion is just that.
peace~

[mondo joe]

57. Disagreeing with me doesn't make it RW bullshit. Parroting the Coulter talking points

that real Democrats fought against does.

[Bluerthanblue]

63. sometimes even "they" are right- and in this case she spoke

ugly truth.

Tell me, did you fight back against the swift boat attacks?

If so, how?

peace~

[mondo joe]

64. Wow, you're actually blaming 2000 on Clinton rather than Repub voter suppression?

Ann Coulter would be proud of you.

And it was John Kerry's job to fight the swiftboat attacks. It was when he failed to do that I knew he was a wimp, and said so.

[Bluerthanblue]

69. nice try- no cigar MJ- if you are so deluded as to deny

that the Lewinsky affair negatively impacted our party in the 2000 election, then you are no where near as intelligent as I've thought you to be.

You may think it was JK's job to fight the swiftboat attacks, but I think that WE - the Democratic party, let him down in ways we won't realize for a long time to come.
You have no trouble defending a person's adultery and deception- (and I had no problem defending him at the time against the smear machine) but you balk at defending a persons HONORABLE and brave war records???? WTH?

With 'support' like this, no wonder we lose.

blame isn't going to win us anything worth having.

peace~

[mondo joe]

70. Here's a flashback for you to what Democrats said and what Repub smears you're puking up

"So you might think the left would jump on Clinton, an impeached, dishonored president, as the explanation of why Gore lost an election that the economy indicated should have been his in a cakewalk.

But they haven't. The left loves Clinton and the worst he stands for even more than they love high taxes and failed government programs. It is now accepted as hard fact by the press that Gore made a fatal error in not making Clinton front and center of his campaign."

That's your pal Ann Coulter http://www.uexpress.com/anncoulter/?uc_full_date=20010103

[Bluerthanblue]

76. it is becoming clearer and clearer to my why you

support Hillary, and think her tactics are ok- that is because you use those same tactics.

I challenge you to find ANY post of mine in my 7yrs here at DU which states in whole or part that I feel anything but contempt for Ann Coulters perspective, or style.

You won't be able to do it- and while you'd like to cloud the issue at hand, by playing childish games like "your pal Ann" because you don't have a valid response to my ON POINT criticizm that your claims :
'Gore lost because Rove was a master', and
(Rove was still at work in 2004, and had even greater access to behind the scenes power)

'Bill Clinton's Lewinsky issue had no impact on Gore's loss'
(you offer Ann Coulters opinion which agrees with YOURS as evidence that your point is valid, then have the balls to call ME a "pal' of hers?- :eyes: )

You aren't fooling anyone who can see beyond their own frustration.-

How about we stick to the issues at hand rather than play character assasination?

peace~

[mondo joe]

80. Actually, your posts that echo Coulter's show that you have something other than

contempt for her, and your pitiful revision of history confirms it.

In another thread you twice put words in my mouth and denied saying things you were then called on having said.

I don't think you're ready for prime time.

Bye.

[BenDavid]

13. The power of the clinton penis is so amazing, he is still getting

blamed for gore losing the election.....Gore wanted to be his own man and he did not want to use bill clinton because he was scared off by the republicans that told him if he used clinton to campaign for him they would use monica against him...Gore believed the gop and did not ask Bill to campaign in those states Bill was teh strongest in....ie florida...Hell Clinton was at a 70% approval when he left office and was at 73% when Gore could have used him in the campaign...but noooooooooooo gore was his own man.....Hell gore would not have had the chance to even run for prsident unless bill had chosen him......

Now on to Kerry....You remember back in October, oh say the 25th .....Kerry was even with Bush in Penn. a state he should have had locked up but was even or 1 or 2 points behind or ahead in whatever poll you read.....Now kerry was needing help in Penn....now who could kerry call and ask to come and campaign for him and then endorse him....Hell it could not be obama the one he invited to give the keynote speech cause no one really knew him and he could not deliver votes.....So Kerry called Bill Clinton and he said yes I will be there on teh 25th of OCtober...and Bill making his first public appearance since heart surgery went and there were 50,000 plus people there screaming and hollering BILL< BILL BILL......and even though it was not athe usual Clinton speech because of his surgery, he gave a damn good speech and endorsed Kerry......

The following week Kerry won Penn......

So don't give me this shit about clinton losing teh last 2 elections because he received fellatio.....I fault gore and I fault kerry...both should have won and if gore had won then we would not have had to endure kerry.......and now we have the chance to take back the white house with another clinton and we will take it back and with a democratic senate and house Hillary will achieve a lot for the PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. Not the way I remember it

I remember Bill and Hillary siphoning Gore's crucial fundraising for her Senate race. They was shilling for donations at fundraisers for him! The Chimperor ran on a platform of "restoring integrity to the White House" and came close enough to steal it. That should never have happened. And it wouldn't have if Bill had exercised some self-restraint. Which he seems incapable of doing. (Apparently, he's continued his skirt-chasing since then. Why do you suppose the GOP slime machine has remained quiet about Bill's more recent paramours? Might they be waiting for a more opportune time?)

In 2003 both Clintons were running around praising Bush's handling of the war.

In 2006 Hillary Clinton made hay of Kerry's botched joke about Iraqi soldiers, to help hasten the end of his Presidential aspirations and secure hers.

As for taking back the Senate and House, you must not live in a red or purple state. The Republicans here in Arizona are salivating at the prospect of running against her. She may eke out a Presidential win here, assuming McCain isn't the GOP nominee, but we may very well lose the 2 Congressional seats we picked up in 2006 in competitive districts with her at the top of the ticket.

[toadzilla]

72. Bill's pee pee 2008!

[dkf]

5. Kerry accuses Clinton of 'abusing' the truth

Email|Link|Comments (26) Posted by Foon Rhee, deputy national political editor January 25, 2008 12:35 PM

Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts is the latest prominent Democrat to hit former President Bill Clinton for his criticisms of Barack Obama.

"I think you had an abuse of the truth, is what happened," Kerry said in an interview today with National Journal On Air. "I mean, being an ex-president does not give you license to abuse the truth, and I think that over the last days it's been over the top. Things have been said about Barack Obama's positions that are just plain untrue."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/kerry_accuses_c.html

[Bluerthanblue]

62. a gentle way of stating the truth.

Kerry has class, even when he is telling ugly truths. Maybe he doesn't appeal to the more neanderthal among us, but he's speaking the sad truth.


peace~

[AP]

7. Remember when the Swift Boaters were attacking and he sent his daughter out on to

the tarmac at the airport to say that she wished people would focus on the issues?

[mondo joe]

8. I felt so bad for John Edwards for being saddled with that. John should have been

the lead on that ticket.

[ProSense]

10. If he wanted to lead the ticket, he should have won! n/t

[mondo joe]

12. True, we Democrats made a poor choice. We've learned some since then.

[ProSense]

14. You have:

Go with the liar!

[mondo joe]

16. I'll go with the one competent to win, thanks.

:-)

[ProSense]

19. Like I said:

Democrats for liars, and proud of it.

[Major Hogwash]

21. JE only won 1 primary in 2004. Wes Clark only won 1 primary. So, I guess it's all Kerry's fault now

That Hillary won't win tomorrow in South Carolina.

Geez.

[mondo joe]

24. Oh no, Kerry is responsible for his own failures only.

And no one has ever expected HRC to win SC that I know of. That would be quite astonishing.

[Major Hogwash]

28. No one, huh? Better check out the results from 4 months ago then - her inevitableness lost her crown

Sorry, but you may not get out much and may not know she was supposed to take South Carolina by 20 points.

[mondo joe]

29. I don't know anyone dumb enough to think polls from 4 months out are useful

predictors. Do you?

[RaleighNCDUer]

37. Funny, through all the months of her being inevitable, the polls were

her supporters prime ammunitiion.

"She's leading by 30 points, nationwide!"
"There's not a single primary she's not positioned to win!"
"The polls all say so, and EVERYBODY trusts the polls!"


Then, oh wow, she LOSES in Iowa, she drops 12 points to win with a squeaker in NH, she drops 15 points for another skin of her teeth win in NV. OBVIOUSLY, you can't trust the polls.

Gawd, I'm getting dizzy.

[mondo joe]

43. You should complain to "her supporters" who said she was "inevtable" then.

I wold not count among them.

I never said she was inevitable. To the contrary, I have repeatedly said any of the 3 can win it.

I'm not accountable for your trouble.

[Bluerthanblue]

56. indeed I do- and I have NO problem with that- that is what

needed to be said.

SHAME! on the democrats who did nothing to defend Kerry against the ugly attacks he and Max were subjected to.

I believe it was the lack of outrage among the party- NOT the response from Sen.Kerry that gave the SB so much impact, lost us the election, and made any challenge of Ohio pointless.

We didn't come to bat for him forcefully enough. Myself included- and I was here on DU at the time, and remember those who called themselves good Dems, and parroted the swiftboat crap, and defeatest attitudes.


We failed our own. It shouldn't be called a party if we aren't at least willing to shut up, if not be helpful.

I intend to avoid smearing our Nominee no matter how I may personally feel about them, once they are chosen .

peace~

[sjdnb]

11. I too was disappointed by their (Gore and Kerry's) quick surrender

after both elections. I worked and contributed for/to both and felt almost like I invested/risked more than either were willing too - especially, Kerry - he had to know after what Gore went through what could be coming. Which is why, I could understand Gore's position over Kerry's - (i.e., fool me once shame on you ... fool me twice, shame on me).

[book_worm]

20. I dont' get this Gore quick surrender stuff?

As I recall he fought for over 30 days after election day.

[joshcryer]

26. And he contemplated running his own government! Gore was not a loser!

[mondo joe]

27. Gore had no way to anticipate the depravity of Rove - he's a sociopath.

He did all he could do, by the time it came down.

[Bluerthanblue]

47. and Rove was not still a part of what Kerry/Edwards were

up against?

Do you cut them the same slack?

peace~

[mondo joe]

49. How was Rove not part of what Kerry was up against?????

[Bluerthanblue]

58. he was- you excuse Gore not fighting harder because

he was up against a sociopath- but Kerry was up against the same individual, who had honed his skills even more.

You are asking me the question I was posing to you.

????

[mondo joe]

61. Gore didn't know as much about Rove a Kerry did. Kerry also had the advantage of

Bush having had a first term and significant public disapproval. Kerry furthermore had the advantage of more money.

And with all of that advantage that Gore didn't have, not only could Kerry not win but he didn't even FIGHT, which Gore did.

[Bluerthanblue]

65. bull- excuses, excuses. Your

predjuce is showing.

"Good Dems don't spout RW talking points"-

What did you do just do? What did you do when all this was going down?

peace~

[mondo joe]

68. To the contrary: Kerry had every advantage. He still lost.

What was I dong while what was going on?

While the swiftboating was going on I was here with other DUers wondering when Kerry was going to step up and defend himself and us.

[Bluerthanblue]

77. "wondering when Kerry was going to step up and defend himself

and us".

I think that statement says it all.


Bill Clinton actually did something that was flat out wrong. What went on in his private sexual life was NOT "our" business, but it became our business when Starr got involved, and when we stood strong and adamantly behind him- It became our business when he lied to US- As for the "is-is" answer, I can even give him slack for that, but the "finger wagging lie" was flat out wrong, and stupid. And we- myself included, defended him in spite of our disapointment with his actions.
My point is, he HAD a need to try and convince America to trust him after he lied to all of us- He HAD to address the issue and defend his actions, because he DID WRONG.
He even lied to Hillary, ! I admire her for the grace with which she handled what had to be an incredibly terrible experience. One where, nothing she did would have satisfied the "public"- she was wrong to stay- she would have been wrong to leave. I defended her to many people, and will still defend her actions in this matter, she responded in a very admirable manner. I also admire Chelsea, and think of anyone, she had the hardest burden, - and was a completely innocent and vunerable bystander.

John Kerry did NOTHING to deserve the attack by the 'swiftboat' 'vets'. Those, unprincipaled, immoral and ugly individuals, who of ALL people should have known better. As the wife of a Firefighter, daughter of a WWII Vet, and someone who has loved and lost more than one Vietnam Vet, I am familiar with the bond among those who have shared experiences like those JK experienced. What those guys did was wounding in a way some can never understand. They did it to Max Cleeland too, while FAR TOO MANY "Dems-" sat back and remained mute or offered a pitiful defense, paultry words of support- is something that I still cannot reconcile within myself. Anyone who was willing to believe and support the shit that they tossed out, was not going to be convinced by anything JK said or did- But what DID have a chance of impacting the actions and words of those ugly fools,- The thing that COULD have turned this around, was the power of US- and we let John and Max down on this one big time. We own our own share in the failure. We are not 'innocent victims'. WE lost.- not just JK and J.Edwards.


I'm not going to waste any more of your time or mine on this. You obviously don't have enough understanding to look at this from any perspective other than the one you have chosen to hold, and nothing and no one is going to open your mind to the concept that you might not only be wrong, but that you may have contributed to our failure.

peace~

[sjdnb]

35. Actually, it was 35 days and given what has transpired since,

just a drop in the bucket ... compared with how many lives and futures could have been spared.

[wisteria]

36. Ho Hum. This BS won't work. Smear Kerry to your petty little hearts delight, it

won't change the fact that he is standing up for what is right and defending a fellow Democrat from Swift boat style lies. He also cares enough about our party to not stand by and allow someone to divide it for personal gain.
Senator Kerry is a fighter, he was a true fighter in 2004. So the road he chose after election night did not agree with the one you thought he should have taken. Personally, I think I'll stick with the senator and his decision to end things as he felt they should be ended. He had a bigger stake in getting elected than any of us- including you.
Is this a new Clinton smear tactic targeted at the opposition?

[george_maniakes]

38. I swear, its like republicans smearing mccain because he isnt "conservative" enough...

so they go after the mans honor. Where do people get off?

[wisteria]

41. I have yet to figure it out. It is so childish and counter productive

for our party and for the country.

[angie_love]

40. Better than you in every way

Kerry is a bigger man than you'll ever be.

[robbedvoter]

42. "they would call us crybabies" - as he recalled Ohio bound lawyers from the tarmac

Mike papapntonio personal recollection on AAR

I don't want any Kerry protegee in charge of this decision in November

[Bluerthanblue]

45. Kerry picked the best candidate to rally behind, and that bothers

you so much, that you will do anything- including smear a good democrat-
to make yourself feel better.

I'll rally behind a person who fights fair- anytime.

Win at any cost- is not always a win- and sometimes the winners are actually losers.

People called MLK and Gandhi losers. I call them heroes. MLK died before civil rights legislation was ever enacted. You would have called him a loser too eh?

peace~

[george_maniakes]

59. thats the track people should try and stay on...

Dont give in to cynicism. Its so damn easy to, but it helps no one.

[still_one]

46. and look at Hillary's choice, a womanizer who can't keep his zipper up /nt

[mondo joe]

50. Calm down Rush. It's okay.

[still_one]

52. The OP effectively called Kerry a wimp, and I called Bill what he is /nt

[Clinton Crusader]

48. Boy how opinions change! Everyone was pissed as hornets at Kerry for folding his tent so

quickly after he SWORE he had our backs, wouldn't give up, would fight till the end, every vote counted, fight with lawyers. Crikey, I never saw anyone give up and run so quickly. I sat and cried when he conceded so quickly, 'for the good of the country". What happened to all those promises? And yeah THAT'S the refund check we should all get. We all gave money we didn't have for his 'fund' to fight till the end, which never came. JE didn't want to give up, you could see it. But boy oh boy, Kerry couldn't get out of there fast enough. Disappointed doesn't even scratch the surface!

What happened to all that moola anyhow?
:evilfrown:

[mtnsnake]

53. "JE didn't want to give up"

I remember that. Edwards must've felt like his insides were being torn out. There he was figuring on being Vice President, and Numero Uno throws in the towel instead. No wonder Edwards has no love lost for Kerry.

[RaleighNCDUer]

79. Well, what would you expect him to do after finding out the DLC

and McAuliffe and the Democratic establishment was NOT watching his back?


After all, if he won then 08 would not have been Hillary's turn. Two terms of Kerry, two terms of Edwards, and by 2020 she's pushing 80, and no way she's going to run.

This was Hillary's last shot.

[paulk]

54. what point is there in bringing this up?

this is fanning old flames for no purpose

it's not relevent

there are people on this board who support both Clinton and Kerry

so...

don't attack Obama through Kerry

it could blow up in your face

[still_one]

55. The point in bring this up is to alienate voters, so when the general election comes

they will have pissed off enough of the opposition, that if their respective candidate does not make it, they won't vote

Great strategy, and to be quite honest, I am pretty much in that camp right now myself

[mtnsnake]

60. "there are people on this board who support both Clinton and Kerry"

I've never seen any Kerry supporters on DU ever support a Clinton, with maybe the only exception I can think of being Kerry2008.

[paulk]

74. there are a handful, including myself

I think a thread like this one is really counter productive. There's no point in making this argument. All it does is reopen old wounds, and I don't believe it helps Hillary.

[TriMetFan]

66. How right you are about...

Kerry. That is the reason Edwards and Kerry don't get along. Edwards the fighter wanted to fight for the votes that we all knew were stolen and Kerry stuck his tail between his legs and gave up. Now Gore did tried to fight. Gore is a different story. For starters don't you remember how Congresswomen Maxine Waters went to the Senate begging for just one Senator to stand up for what was right? Joe the stabbing in the back Lieberman could have been that Senator. But as history has shown us about that man, he is the one that didn't want Gore to fight. And how was Gore to fight against the United State Supreme Court when they had voted in favor of Bush. So in other words Kerry just gave the finger at the voter's and his running mate Edwards. I will never believe what Kerry has to ever say again.

[Inuca]

73. Yes, he did

And incidentaly Obama did not pick anyone, Kerry chose to support Obama. The rest of your comments are equally "spot on".

[Meshuga]

78. What a waste of bandwidth macho talk thread n/t