HIllary President means Goodbye Howard Dean

[thunder rising]

If Hillary is elected President she will by default become the leader of the Democratic Party. And with that power she will eject Howard Dean for "more favorable" leadership.

Even as she rides HIS coattails to the Presidency ... to her it's only because people love her and nothing else. Regardless, of the 2004 and 2006 efforts by Dean and MoveOn that paved the way for a Democratic Party revival and her success.

It's all about Hillary. Just like Lieberman.
:nuke:

She will reform the party back into the old structure that got it defeated so many times before. It's the triangulation ya'know. You don't need 50 states to win, so why campaign there.

[msongs]

1. you forgot proof that she will dump howard dean. how inconvenient to back up your claim nt

[Alexander]

3. Yeah, Carville saying Dean was a "failure" and propping up Harold Ford means nothing.

:eyes:

[KittyWampus]

20. Besides their attempt to get Ford in his place? The fact the idea of a 50 State Strategy

is anathema to them?

[LittleClarkie]

45. He's stating his opinion, that is all

one I happen to agree with. It seems pretty self-evident. No love lost there, what with the challenges to his leadership and all.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. What was that all about? It made no sense at all.

[davidwparker]

7. I took it to mean that Dean has a 50 state strategy, where the Clintons/DLC

like to write off all but a few counties in a few states.

Hillary would reverse Dean's work towards 50 states.

[MaineDem]

50. Hillary has pledged to support the 50-state strategy

As have Edwards and Obama. They signed a pledge with the Democratic State Chairs.

[davidwparker]

4. Dean has nothing to worry about if it is predicated on President Hillary. n/t

[robbedvoter]

5. After the mess he made of this primary, good riddance!

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jane Austin]

14. I wouldn't have said it quite the way you did,

but I agree with the gist of what you are saying.

Florida Dem leadership asked for this.

[mtnsnake]

15. Dude you really should consider some therapy right away.

[Kucinich4America]

23. I think you addressed that reply to the wrong person.

Every post I have read today from the individual to whom I responded has been filled with either complete hatred for Democrats, or denial over the wrong-doings of the BushClintons, or both.

And seriously, it's too late to whine about the primaries that were messed up by the DLC.

At least the Whore Media didn't strangle your candidate.

[robbedvoter]

28. Right to vote = hatred for democrats? because St dean is against it?

Maybe you should reflect on the name of the party you say you defend so much and why it was called that way.
Dean is not the party. he is the chairman - who did some terrific things and some dumb things recently.

[Kucinich4America]

47. Dr. Dean is doing his job, and enforcing the rules of the primary season.

And I've never called him a saint, nor do I believe he ever claimed to be one. Besides, Chairman Doctor Governor Saint Dean would just be a little much for anyone to fit on their nametag.

[robbedvoter]

26. My worthless primary? Wow! Not much with the democracy you....I have a primary in my state

which doesn't make me feel good for democrats from Michigan and Florida. Or Nevada either. Cutting cards for ties? Like Nader saying in 2000: toss a coin. But then again, you sound like him. And a 2004 deanie too.
FYI - I support Gravel - . Also democracy, right to vote - and I don't think primaries are worthless - just deeply flawed.
I had liked what Dean did - until this primary - now I am angry.
No party rules can trump a constitutional right. he should find other ways to deal with whatever.

[dionysus]

32. gravel?!?!?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[robbedvoter]

34. Yet more signs of respect for democracy from you.

Kinda explains the lack of perspective and arrogance. I know, who would care about the right to vote and support a candidate who ended the draft? So very ridiculous...

[dionysus]

37. yeah i'm so totally a facist!!!

gravel!??

mercer has more support!


:rofl: :rofl:

[Alexander]

33. Wow, I think we found DU's one Gravel supporter. Do you like flat taxes?

How's your candidate doing, anyway?

[robbedvoter]

36. And I discovered where the Dean hooligans bully people these days.

Unlike you I do not buy any one candidate's promises wholesale. This is the guy who ended the draft and said "less prayer, more empowerment" while all the others were showing off their bible quotes. Is the hazing party over - or you gonna bring the tar and feathers too?

[Alexander]

39. Oh I like Gravel. I just don't like his FairTax proposal. What do you think of it?

Senator Gravel will always get respect from me for his work in th 1970s with the Pentagon Papers and ending the Vietnam draft.

Putting snark and attitude aside, do you agree with Gravel's position on taxes? I would like to seriously discuss this.

[robbedvoter]

44. Never gave it much thought - as realistically there wasn't much danger of it

But off the top of my head - not a good idea.

[Alexander]

31. DLC = DINOs Love Clinton!

[jackson_dem]

35. Another DLC hater who has run to Obama so he can "beat" the DLC

:rofl: Obama is as DLC as Clinton.

[Alexander]

42. The DLC is a Republican infiltration of the party of the people.

"Obama is as DLC as Clinton."

Actually Obama was never a member of the DLC. Thanks for showing your ignorance!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[jackson_dem]

43. Which DLC policies does Obama disagree with?

Hint: 0

Al From has said he is "proud" of both Obama and Hillary.

[Occam Bandage]

18. Your own idiotic state party made that mess.

[robbedvoter]

29. My state is NY. My local party doesn't consult me with these decisions.

I doubt Florida voters had control over it - any more than I had over the war in Iraq. Why punish them over whatever party snafu went on?
How dare the DNC take the voting rights of American citizens? And how can you be so, logged in petty internecine squabbles to miss the point?

[Kucinich4America]

40. Oh, you're from New York?

Isn't that the state with the Senator from Illinois Arkansas uh, where was she from again?

Don't New York voters have a right to vote for someone who LIVES in their state?

[KittyWampus]

21. Mess? Rules are necessary in political organizations involving millions of people.

In your little world, maybe you can go around making exceptions to the rules on really important things. But if you do that with kids, you end up with brats.

Do that with political organizations and you get anarchy.

[robbedvoter]

30. Maybe so. But they should be enforced differently than by depriving voters

of their constitutional rights. Voters had no control over the local party decision - in fact I think the local party didn't have it either (GOP state legislature?).

[tkmorris]

55. LOL You are mistaken my friend

You do not, nor did you ever, have any "Constitutional right" to vote in the party primary. The party can select it's nominee in any fashion it desires. They could hold a bake-off if they wanted to.

Having said that, of course it is troubling whenever some people get excluded from the process. I wish there was some other solution to this issue, but frankly I don't see one. States CANNOT be allowed to simply hold a primary whenever they want to, it would result in utter chaos. How would you prefer to see the DNC enforce this?

You are also incorrect in thinking the state Democratic Party had no say in this. While the legislature is Rep. controlled, the Dems there were active participants and cheerleaders in moving the primary up to a date they KNEW was in direct violation of the national party rules, and in fact they all voted in unison with the Reps to do so. After having done that they were offered numerous solutions to the problem by the DNC, including offers of cash assistance to hold later primaries or caucuses which would comply, and the delegates would be seated as any others.

They refused. They insisted that Florida's primary be held on the 29th of January, regardless of any violations or possible repercussions. It is nothing more or less than an attempted power grab which only splinters the Democratic Party more than it already is.

Since then the state party has been engaged in a turfing campaign, trying to portray themselves as victims of the Rep legislature and more pointedly, Howard Dean. It's absolute nonsense to anyone who knows the facts but, sadly, few bother to learn them. Don't fall for it.

[Cant trust em]

6. Let's hope not

the 50 state strategy was brilliant.

[napi21]

9. So maybe Dean can run for Sununu's Senate seat. His term is up

in 2009. Howard would make a great Senator! I think he's very popular in NH too!

[cali]

13. that would be quite a trick as Dean was Governor of my state-

Vermont and is still very much a Vermonter. We don't much like to confused with NH; we're very different. And Sununu is up for re-election this year. Former Governor Shaheen is running against him. In Vermont, Bernie and Pat have their seats as long as they want them. Pat's up for re-election in 2010 and he'll be running.

[napi21]

16. I'm sorry. I knew he was from Vt., but I tend to confuse some of the smaller NE states.

Well damn! I don't want to lose Howard!

[Kucinich4America]

24. Howard could always move to NH if he wanted to.

He would certainly be closer to his home state than certain carpetbagging senators were :evilgrin:

[jackson_dem]

38. Will you vote for Leahy?

He voted for the Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, the 2001 bankruptcy bill, and normalized trade with China.

[mtnsnake]

10. Your republican scare and fear tactics don't scare anyone. Nice try.

[sniffa]

11. Why don't you support Howard Dean?

:shrug:

[mtnsnake]

17. I do. Howard Dean IS the one I supported in the last primary, wise guy

Howard Dean should be President right now, but by some friggin miracle John "the worst campaigner in history" Kerry beat him out. Howard Dean would never have lost to a fucking imbecile like Bush after already proving in his first term he was the worst president EVER.

[sniffa]

22. Then why don't you support him now?

:shrug:

[mtnsnake]

25. I always have. Why do you keep asking dumb questions?

Writing a book or something? :shrug:

[Unsane]

12. New DNC chair under Hillary presidency = Howard Wolfson

Back to the 90's coastal, urban 16 state Democratic strategy.

[Occam Bandage]

19. Probably so. Well, it was nice being a national party.

[mondo joe]

27. Hillary and Howard are both adults. They can work it out and survive. NT

[Nedsdag]

49. RIGHT!

Keep telling yourself that.

She and her DLC minions HATED the 50-state strategy.

[HughMoran]

41. Interesting supposition

I don't agree with it, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[LittleClarkie]

46. I stand with Howard Dean. Which is one of the reasons I do NOT stand with Hillary

Yes, we will go back to a time when sections of the party atrophied from neglect, where we concede whole portions of the country as not viable for the party.

From what I hear, that's what happened in the Clinton years. They were good at getting themselves elected, but not so good at bringing everyone else with.

[MaineDem]

48. Dean will be out whomever is elected

If we have a Democratic President (as I'm sure we will) he or she will have a big say in who the Chair is. (The DNC still gets to actually decide.)

If we lose, he deserves to be out.

In any case, the top 3 candidates have all endorsed the 50-state strategy, in writing. I hope the State Chairs hold the winner to his/her word!

[bklyncowgirl]

51. I would say so. There's no love lost there. Too bad, the Democrats were just starting to win.

Whatever you want to say about Howard Dean, his arrival as DNC chair has coincided with a rise in the fortunes of the Democratic party. Despite the howls of anguish from DC Dems his 50 state strategy actually worked and put the Democrats in the majority in both houses--an election day shocker for sure.

I doubt though, he'll survive the Clinton nomination, much less her becoming President and that's just too bad.

The Clintons could end up splitting the party and that would be a disaster.

[Politicub]

52. You don't know that

And if you've seen a source, please point to it. Thanks.

[DURHAM D]

53. How stupid.

Obama will fire Dean. David Axelrod's best friend is Rahm Emanuel. David worked under contract for the DCCC (Rahm) in the run up to the 2006 elections. Every one surely remembers the open warfare between Rahm and Dean regarding allocation of DNC funds during the runup to the mid-terms in 2006.

Most think Rahm supports Hillary - he does not. She wanted him fired from the W.H. because she did not like him. Rahm, Obama and David's association goes back more than a decade and they forged their relationship in Chicago smash mouth politics.

Obama will fire Dean - Rahm will pick the replacement.

[FrenchieCat]

54. Link?

[DURHAM D]

56. Link to what ?

Its called using my brain and actually remembering details. Do a little research...

[cooolandrew]

57. DLC is pulling the party away from FDR, so a win for DLC is a loss for voters.

[Thrill]

58. No worry. Hillary will never be President