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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:04 PM
Original message
Obama comes clean, but Hillary's sleaze machine thrives
Sen. Obama Presidential Campaign Q&A

A Chicago Sun-Times Exclusive: Sen. Barack Obama’s presidential campaign gave the following written responses to these questions about the Rezko court filing.

Q. What is Sen. Obama’s reaction to being referred to in the Rezko evidentiary proffer?

A. We have no way of knowing he is the politician named here but we returned this money months ago for other reasons.

Q. Was Sen. Obama aware that Rezko allegedly had directed at least one person to donate to the senator’s campaign and later reimbursed that person, possibly violating federal election law?

A. No.

Q. Has the Federal Election Commission or the U.S. attorney’s office in Chicago contacted the senator or any of his representatives about these matters?

A. No.

Q. Why has the senator donated to charity campaign contributions from Rezko and Rezko-linked people?

A. In keeping with our practice of donating to charity donations from people who have been called into question through the legal process, when he was named in documents as potentially engaging in wrongdoing we thought it was appropriate to return his donation to charity.

Q. Does the senator think this development will have any impact on the presidential campaign or undercut the senator’s message that he is an agent of change?

A. No. In fact, Sen. Obama has been a champion of reforms that have made campaign finance laws more transparent so that the public can more closely follow the source of contributions to campaigns. As with any campaign, occasionally individual contributions are called into question. Sen. Obama’s policy in such instances is to donate that money to charity which is what he did in this case seven months ago when questions first surfaced.

link


Hillary Clinton's Sleaze Parade

Posted January 18, 2008
<…>

New questionable actions emerge daily. You're probably familiar with many. But it's the broader pattern that disturbs me--how much the Clinton campaign seems to nurture questionable actions from her operatives, supporters, and surrogates. And how the campaign's actions go beyond drawing legitimate political lines to an all-too-Rovian instinct to do whatever's deemed necessary to take down those blocking Clinton's potential victory. Here's a representative list of actions that, taken together, offer a troubling portent for her candidacy and presidency.

Start with the hiring of chief campaign strategist, Mark Penn. He's CEO of a PR firm, Burson-Marsteller, that prepped the Blackwater CEO for his recent congressional testimony, is advising the giant industrial laundry corporation Cintas in fighting unionization, and whose website proudly heralded their union-busting expertise until it became a potential Clinton liability and they removed that section. B-M has historically represented everyone from the Argentine military junta and Philip Morris to Union Carbide after the 1984 Bhopal disaster.

Then there are Clinton's campaign donors. Any major candidate has some dubious supporters, but Clinton's gotten money from particularly noxious sources. Start with her donation from Rupert Murdoch, who's given to no other Democrat. Add in massive amounts of money from Washington lobbyists and from industries like defense, banking, health care, and oil and energy providers (though Obama's also gotten a lot from some of these industries). Then there's Norman Hsu, who brought in over $850,000 to Hillary's campaign after returning to the US following his flight to evade a fraud conviction (Hsu was subsequently rearrested, sentenced to three years, and is facing further federal charges, and the campaign eventually returned the money he'd raised). There's the Nebraska data processing company InfoUSA, whose CEO, Vin Gupta, used private corporate jets to fly the Clintons on business, personal, and campaign trips, gave Bill Clinton a $3.3 million consulting contract, and is now being investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission for allegedly diverting company money to his own personal uses.
Mississippi attorney Dickie Scruggs recently canceled a major December 15 Hillary fundraiser (with Bill Clinton headlining) after being indicted for trying to bribe a judge. Major international sweatshop owners, the Saipan-based Tan family, have given Clinton $26,000, complementing their previous massive support for Jack Abramoff and Tom Delay. That doesn't even count dubious supporters from the past, like Peter Paul, the convicted con-artist turned event producer who coordinated a massive Hollywood Clinton fundraiser during the 2,000 election. Taken together, it's a pretty tainted constellation of backers.

Like most candidates, Clinton spends the bulk of her money on ads and mailings, and she's taken some pretty problematic approaches there too. I wonder how many of the New Hampshire women who voted last minute for Clinton were swayed by a mailing claiming that Obama wasn't really committed to abortion rights because he'd voted "present" on some abortion-related legislative votes. Except that Obama had done so as part of a strategy devised by Illinois Planned Parenthood to protect vulnerable swing district representatives. New England Planned Parenthood's Board Chair strongly refuted Clinton's letter, pointing out that Obama had a 100% record on all the votes that really mattered. But the mailing may still have damaged his support.

The distortion of Obama's position on abortion echoes Hillary's audacious argument that Obama really wasn't against the Iraq war and betrayed his promises by failing to vote against war appropriation bills after the Democrats couldn't override Bush's veto. I wish Obama had bucked the Democratic leadership and taken a stronger stand. But it's a gross distortion of history to equate his positions with Clinton's overt support for the war authorization, refusal to apologize for her vote, and claim that she was really doing it all to promote more diplomatic solutions.

We can find further distortions in a mailing sent out before the Iowa caucuses by the independent expenditure committee of a key Clinton ally, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. The AFSCME mailing attacked Obama on his health care plan by using a John Edwards quote that was featured so prominently that recipients could assume that his campaign was the source of the attack piece. This and other actions so disturbed a group of seven AFSCME International Vice Presidents wrote a public letter to their union president, saying that although the union had endorsed Clinton on a split vote, the political committee had no mandate to attack Obama. They demanded the committee stop what they called "fundamentally dishonest" attacks.

Other surrogates have attacked Obama's character. Twice they've tried to raise Obama's early drug use as a campaign issue--despite his having addressed it directly and frankly in his book Dreams From My Father. Hillary's New Hampshire campaign chair, Billy Shaheen, mentioned it first, claiming that he was only worried about how the Republicans might use it. Sheehan resigned from the campaign after a storm of criticism, then Black Entertainment Television CEO Robert Johnson (who's backed Bush on issues like the estate tax) raised it again, with Clinton standing next to him at a South Carolina rally. After Johnson's words drew major heat, Clinton belatedly distanced herself from them, but the smear still stands, along with the disingenuous claim that those making it were just neutral participants, only trying to serve the Party's best interests.

more


Hillary Inc.

Ari Berman

<...>

It's a rousing speech, though ultimately not very convincing. If Clinton really wanted to curtail the influence of the powerful, she might start with the advisers to her own campaign, who represent some of the weightiest interests in corporate America. Her chief strategist, Mark Penn, not only polls for America's biggest companies but also runs one of the world's premier PR agencies. A bevy of current and former Hillary advisers, including her communications guru, Howard Wolfson, are linked to a prominent lobbying and PR firm--the Glover Park Group--that has cozied up to the pharmaceutical industry and Rupert Murdoch. Her fundraiser in chief, Terry McAuliffe, has the priciest Rolodex in Washington, luring high-rolling contributors to Clinton's campaign. Her husband, since leaving the presidency, has made millions giving speeches and counsel to investment banks like Goldman Sachs and Citigroup. They house, in addition to other Wall Street firms, the Clintons' closest economic advisers, such as Bob Rubin and Roger Altman, whose DC brain trust, the Hamilton Project, is Clinton's economic team in waiting. Even the liberal in her camp, former deputy chief of staff Harold Ickes, has lobbied for the telecom and healthcare industries, including a for-profit nursing home association indicted in Texas for improperly funneling money to disgraced former House majority leader Tom DeLay. "She's got a deeper bench of big money and corporate supporters than her competitors," says Eli Attie, a former speechwriter to Vice President Al Gore. Not only is Hillary more reliant on large donations and corporate money than her Democratic rivals, but advisers in her inner circle are closely affiliated with unionbusters, GOP operatives, conservative media and other Democratic Party antagonists.

Polling Czar

After the 1994 election, Democrats had just lost both houses of Congress, and President Clinton was floundering in the polls. At the urging of his wife, he turned to Dick Morris, a friend from their time in Arkansas. Morris brought in two pollsters from New York, Doug Schoen and his partner, Mark Penn, a portly, combative workaholic. Morris decided what to poll and Penn polled it. They immediately pushed Clinton to the right, enacting the now-infamous strategy of "triangulation," which co-opted Republican policies like welfare reform and tax cuts and emphasized small-bore issues that supposedly cut across the ideological divide. "They were the ones who said, 'Make the '96 election about nothing except V-chips and school uniforms,'" says a former adviser to Bill. When Morris got caught with a call girl, Penn became the most important adviser in Clinton's second term. "In a White House where polling is virtually a religion," the Washington Post reported in 1996, "Penn is the high priest."

Penn, who had previously worked in the business world for companies like Texaco and Eli Lilly, brought his corporate ideology to the White House. After moving to Washington he aggressively expanded his polling firm, Penn, Schoen & Berland (PSB). It was said that Penn was the only person who could get Bill Clinton and Bill Gates on the same line. Penn's largest client was Microsoft, and he saw no contradiction between working for both the plaintiff and the defense in what was at the time the country's largest antitrust case. A variety of controversial clients enlisted PSB. The firm defended Procter & Gamble's Olestra from charges that the food additive caused anal leakage, blamed Texaco's bankruptcy on greedy jurors and market-tested genetically modified foods for Monsanto. PSB introduced to consulting the concept of "inoculation": shielding corporations from scandal through clever advertising and marketing.

In 2000 Penn became the chief architect of Hillary's Senate victory in New York, persuading her, in a rerun of '96, to eschew big themes and relentlessly focus on poll-tested pothole politics, such as suburban transit lines and dairy farming upstate. Following that election, Penn became a very rich man--and an even more valued commodity in the business world (Hillary paid him $1 million for her re-election campaign in '06 and $277,000 in the first quarter of this year). The massive PR empire WPP Group acquired Penn's polling firm for an undisclosed sum in 2001 and four years later named him worldwide CEO of one of its most prized properties, the PR firm Burson-Marsteller (B-M). A key player in the decision to hire Penn was Howard Paster, President Clinton's chief lobbyist to Capitol Hill and an influential presence inside WPP. "Clients of stature come to Mark constantly for counsel," says Paster, who informally advises Hillary, explaining the hire. The press release announcing Penn's promotion noted his work "developing and implementing deregulation informational programs for the electric utilities industry and in the financial services sector." The release blithely ignored how utility deregulation contributed to the California electricity crisis manipulated by Enron and the blackout of 2003, which darkened much of the Northeast and upper Midwest.

link


Why the Problems with Clinton Inc. Could Sink the Democrats in 2008

By AL GIORDANO

The $850,000 that conman Norman Hsu bundled for Senator Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign are the gifts that Clinton will have to keep giving back, harming her presidential hopes not just monetarily, but also morally and politically.

Hsu’s upcoming court hearings together with a newly filed civil suit in California, plus the criminal (and likely civil) complaints pending against him in New York, will soon blast in stereo from the media capitals of both coasts. The courtroom fireworks will take away a considerable amount of the message control that the Clinton campaign has, until now, been able to deploy.

It’s a story with sizzle and steak. Major media organizations including The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and Newsweek have put many of their top investigative reporters on the trail through which a fugitive from justice rose to become one of the Clinton campaign’s top 15 fundraisers. With each new report, new lines of investigation open; the story has so many legs it’s a caterpillar. Although very potentially harmful to Clinton’s ambitions, the increasing scrutiny on those that provide and raise the millions required to win election to national office is long overdue and should be cleansing for democracy.

Last May, The Nation’s Ari Berman filed an important story about the Clinton campaign’s ties to corporate America, “Hillary, Inc.” It captured the contradictions inherent in a candidate who speechifies against an economy that skews toward “the privileged and the powerful at the expense of everybody else” while playing footsie under the table with those same interests. Yet the focus on the corporate nature of Clinton, Inc. isn’t entirely negative for the senator’s campaign: it can also imply–to voters made cynical by the constraints capitalism imposes on democracy–a level of businesslike competence in the rough and tumble realities of electoral campaigns.

The Hsu case is more dangerous for Clinton’s aspirations because it shows the incompetent underside of the Clinton organization; a sloppy and careless venture that back in the era of “1990s values,” was sufficient to help it politically survive its own self-inflicted wounds. But in this higher tech, faster information-flow, closer scrutiny 21st century that is upon us, the trademark recklessness that got the Clinton organization through eight years in power now veers toward disaster.

<...>

Hsu was very talented at the con, and his prominence as a “Hillraiser” brought him new investors. Once they had anted up, Hsu then got them to donate to Clinton and others by implying that the return on their investments would be at stake. The more money he raised for Clinton, the more access and attention was fawned upon him. And it was all going swimmingly until late August, when the Wall Street Journal first reported that Hsu had bundled tens of thousands of dollars in Clinton donations from a California family headed by a postal worker that earned just $49,000 a year. That report sent other major news organizations digging, which led to evidence that he had paid money to some of his bundled Clinton donors (illegal under federal elections law) and, finally, the startling revelation that Clinton’s leading bundler was a fugitive from justice who had pled “no contest” in 1992 to defrauding investors.

link



Clinton to Return $850,000 Raised by Hsu

Democratic fundraiser Hsu gets 3 years in jail


The Clintons have decided to use every dirty trick in the book

Taylor Marsh's despicable dishonesty in smearing Obama


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sunonmars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. does his campaign say everything
Edited on Sun Jan-20-08 02:06 PM by sunonmars
Why isnt he saying it himself?

Seems Obama does not like to be questioned.
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Andy823 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I agree
And his supporters don't like him being questioned either! This will come back and bite him in the butt big time if he doesn't get all the facts out. If he wins the nomination, the republicans will take him to the cleaners on this, and I will bet they have a "lot" more than this to go after him on.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Obama Operatives are At it Again!
This negative crap is costing him votes.

Obama operatives in Daily Kos claimed that HRC rigged the New Hampshire election.
They forced a recount and Hillary GAINED votes.

Now they're claiming HRC thugs pressured people to vote for her.

Here's the REAL story. And it's by someone who does not support Cllinton:

Matt Stoller at Openleft is not a Clinton fan, and this is what he says about the Nevada caucuses from the scene itself:

This is a picture I took yesterday of Gerald McEntee, the head of the powerful AFSCME labor union, at the closing Clinton rally. The sign he's holding says 'Culinary Workers for Clinton', and it's a dig at the leaders of the Culinary Workers, who endorsed Obama and from what I hear from good sources used incredibly heavy handed tactics to encourage their members to caucus for Obama.

At the caucus I was at, two AFSCME organizers were actually out-organizing the Culinary Workers among their own members, a sign of just how badly the Obama labor camp played their hand. Not only did the union not deliver their members, but it's probable that the aggressive tactics, which included things like explaining to members they should caucus for Obama or not show up at all, backfired and drove up support for Clinton. Remember, Clinton tried to get the strip caucuses canceled in a lawsuit, but ended up winning the strip casinos anyway, including New York New York.

So, lets talk about the Obama campaign's voter intimidation and suppression - if you aren't going to vote for Obama, don't show up? I know the Obama supporters will say, no, that was the union, not Obama - well, Obama has been very quiet about what his supporters in the leadership of the CUA did, running that nasty 527 ad (and all of a sudden Obama is silent about 527's, unlike his attacks on John Edwards in Iowa), and their efforts to intimidate and suppress Clinton voters. These holier than thou, we are better and smarter than you, tactics of division by the Obama campaign and its supporters is bad for our party. I'll vote for the guy if he is the nominee, but I'm going to focus on other races in my state, not the presidential, if this poltiics of division does not stop.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Clinton
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. Kuchinich is the one who questioned NH, not Obama or his campaign
Matt Stoller ASSUMES, not proves that the Obama came intimidated voters. Starting there, he condemns Obama.

However here is what is KNOWN, not assumed;
1) What we KNOW is true is that Clinton tried to get the strip caucuses canceled in a lawsuit.
2) Some allegations of voter suppression made by Taylor Marsh were unfounded - as can be seen by Prosense's link.
3) Bill Clinton on caucus day said there was suppression
4) He sites the fact that AFSCME, which endorsed HRC, "out organized" the CWU with their own members.

Comments:
I suspect that the Taylor Marsh article that was linked everywhere was a shot across the bow, intended to make the CU afraid to do anything that could appear to advocate that members caucus for Obama. It would be normal and legitimate to tell workers that the union was endorsing Obama - that's what the endorsement meant. It seems they pushed LESS than AFSCME did.

Now, what Rove technique is this. Accuse your opponent of what you tried to do. The Clintons most definitely attempted to suppress the strip vote with that law suit. To cover their tracks, they accuse Obama of voter suppression. I have no idea where Stoller is coming from, but it is clear that he is echoing Bill Clinton here.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Your research and analytical skills are formidable, grasshopper.
Whew! Glad you're throwing down where you are.

Thanks.
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neutron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
26. Obama Thugs are Smearing HRC
in all of the blogs. I don't know who this guy is any more.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. The truth will set you free! ClintonCo is the new BushCo when it comes to election cheese.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
3. you're like the Chris Matthews of GD:P. nt.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. is that supposed to be clever?
try refuting the articles, it might make you look better
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Yeh, Iagree - a regular Tweety.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
50. Prosense is far smarter and more accurate than Matthews will ever be
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
5. Obama donated to charity AFTER it hit the press as far as I know.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. So did Clinton, $850,000!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Clinton has nothing to do with Rezko..Obama did have dealings with Hsu, though..
Rezko and Hsu... just two we know about. Wait, what about friends of Rezko. Saved for another day!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Hillary Clinton Says Bye-Bye to Indicted Trial Lawyer
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. "His donations have been suspect"...Trent Lott's BIL..hahaha!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. Kick! n/t
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. more..for the curious..
Posted by Fred Nerks to Ernest_at_the_Beach
On News/Activism 01/15/2008 4:02:35 PM PST · 31 of 33


http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23046617-2703,00.html?from=public_rss

‘...”He is already attracting attention on right-wing websites for describing the September 11 attacks as a “wake-up call” to America for ignoring the concerns of “people of colour”.

Wright travelled to meet Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader, in the 1980s with Louis Farrakhan, the black supremacist leader of the Nation of Islam.

“When (Obama’s) enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gaddafi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell,” Wright once said.

The other potential threat to Obama comes from the indictment last week of one of his leading donors, Antoin “Tony” Rezko, a Syrian-born property developer in Chicago who is accused of extortion...’
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
52. Hsu and his linked contributors gave Obama a small fraction
of what they gave HRC. Hsu is HRC's baggage. In the 1990s, the low standard of both McAuliffe and the Clintons led to tarnishing many ethical people, including Al Gore. You would think at least that they might have realized that they could not afford a repeat - but they didn't.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. yeah, like yesterday..
they returned another $40,000 of Rezko's tainted money. It was almaost a year ago, Rezko was indicted and they held on till the last minute... Jaysus.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. SEC Opens Investigation of Company Headed by Key Supporter of Clintons
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. Guess, they couldn't find anything...after several months. You must be sad!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #23
39. " You must be sad!"
:)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
60. Kick! n/t
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Obama surfaces in Rekzo's federal corruption case (Full headline)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Topic subject Patrick Fitzgerald Ties Obama to Rezko Indictments
Here is a post from yesterday.

Forum Name General Discussion
Topic subject Patrick Fitzgerald Ties Obama to Rezko Indictments
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2719916#2719916
2719916, Patrick Fitzgerald Ties Obama to Rezko Indictments
Posted by kpete on Sat Jan-19-08 01:12 PM

Sun-Times Exclusive: Obama surfaces in Rekzo's federal corruption case
Source confirmed Obama is the unnamed "political candidate" referred to in document which outlines case against Rezko

January 19, 2008

...................

The allegations against Rezko that involve Obama are contained in one paragraph of a 78-page document filed last month in which prosecutors outline their corruption and fraud case against Rezko, who was also a key money man for Gov. Blagojevich and other politicians.

Rezko is set to go to trial Feb. 25. The revelation that Obama’s name could come up in court is a political headache he doesn’t need as he heads into a round of primaries that are likely to determine his party’s nomination for president.

Rezko, who was part of Obama’s senatorial finance committee, also is accused of directing “at least one other individual” to donate money to Obama and then reimbursing that individual — in possible violation of federal election law.

A spokesman for U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald declined to comment.


more at:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/749138,obama20web.article
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Take a breathe! n/t
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. I was just outside for a walk.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #19
57. Kick! n/t
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why is it the responses to the questions from the Obama camp remind
me of the Bush Administration?

Barack doesn't respond personally, he doesn't know anything about anything that's going on in his campaign, he had no idea the guy was a crook, etc.

ANd how is it Barack bought his house for $300,000 under market value in a tight market?

I want CHANGE. I'm sick of CORRUPT POLITICIANS.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. its anger at Toto--he pulled back the screen and now the light is dimming
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. When Norman Hsu came up
Hillary didn't try to avoid scrutiny by pointing the finger at Obama for Rezko. She directly answered questions. And remember, Obama got money from Hsu also.

I see one example in the list (I had to skim it) that involves the Clintons being personally enriched by an unsavory character. But when Bill got the money the bestower had no government business before Bill Clinton.

Obama got a real estate deal from Rezko. That goes beyond an innocent acceptance of a campaign donation.

I don't believe Obama did anything illegal but it stinks for his supporters to try to finger point and defend Obama by rehashing a bunch of old stuff about the Clintons. I saw plenty of cheap guilt by association smears in the list.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. You repeat her defense - that others took money too and didn't know there
was a problem either.

This was disengenuous - HRC got $850,000 from Hsu linked people, most of the other a few thousand. There is no realistic way some could have picked up that something was fishy in a group of moderate donations not obviously linked.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. You repeat her defense - that others took money too and didn't know there
was a problem either.

This was disengenuous - HRC got $850,000 from Hsu linked people, most of the other a few thousand. There is no realistic way some could have picked up that something was fishy in a group of moderate donations not obviously linked.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
20. .
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks for putting it all together, Prosense. n/t
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
30. hell he`s toast now
an unnamed source close to the investigation has seen obama`s name.....
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kick! n/t
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Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R...n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-20-08 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
34. Kick! n/t
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
36. An answer to all of this = federally funded elections
Clinton and Obama both made mistakes here. Enough with the back and forth. What do you expect from them? To compete, you need money. Lots of it. That means getting it from unsavory sources. We as the "little people" don't have enough money for them. Government is broken. Remember the CNN series in 2006 about government and raising money for elections. Congress and senators spend sooo much time raising money. Its ridiculous. Its up to them to fix it, however. I don't if they ever will.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
37. Kick! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-21-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
38. Kick! n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
40. kick n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
41. Kick! n/t
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
42. MSNBC and CNN are aiding and abetting the Clinton sleaze machine.
They show Hillary's attacks without showing Obama's responses.
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
43. Kick for Slime Ball Dirt Bag Lying Mob Owned Obama's attempt to Swiftboat Clinton!
Should I have put quotes around the words from Non-sense's cultist babble? :eyes:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Here:
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MethuenProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Here:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. From that graphic representation of your logic, to well-thought out logic:
Edited on Tue Jan-22-08 10:38 AM by ProSense
...whereas Obama pledges to reach across partisan lines, and outside them as well, to build support for a progressive agenda, he's not talking about abandoning his party and sharing power directly with people who don't share his (or Nunn's) assessment of the challenges facing America, and who would oppose any progressive agenda with every political weapon available. Best I can tell, Obama's offering an extended hand to the GOP that he's willing to make into a fist. And his argument with some in the Democratic Party, most notably John Edwards, over how to enact progressive policies, mainly reflects differences of opinion on how to marshal public opinion to reverse most of the GOP policies of the Bush era.


Leadership is bringing people along!

more
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. MOB?
US?

Jersey Boys Clinton Caucus.


Meanwhile back at the Obama meet-up
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GalleryGod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
46. Here's a "Blueprint" accounting...
flawlessly written & impeccably researched & footnoted.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
51. I hope Hillary's people sue the Obama people's ass.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Huh? n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-22-08 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
53. Kick! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-23-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
55. Kick! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
56. Kick! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-24-08 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
58. Kick! n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-25-08 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
59. Kick! n/t
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