HIL TO OBAMA: GOP IDEAS ARE BAD

[Herman Munster]

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/01/hil-to-obama-gop-ideas-are-bad.html

Hillary Clinton just whacked Barack Obama after he had something complimentary to say about Republicans, in this case that they where the party of ideas for about 15 years.

Here’s Obama’s offending comment to the Reno Gazette a couple of days ago: “I think it’s fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10 to 15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom.”

And that’s along with his recent description of Ronald Reagan as a transformative figure.

Perhaps such words sway independents and moderates Obama’s way, but this is a Democratic contest, and Camp Clinton clearly decided these werer less-than-smart comments.

Said Hillary at a Las Vegas print shop just a little bit ago:

“My leading opponent the other day said that he thought the Republicans had better ideas than Democrats the last 10 to 15 years. That’s not the way I remember the last 10 to 15 years.

“I don’t think it’s a better idea to privatize Social Security. I don’t think it’s a better idea to try to eliminate the minimum wage. I don’t think it’s a better idea to undercut health benefits and to give drug companies the right to make billions of dollars by providing prescription drugs to medicare recipients. I don’t think it’s a better idea to shut down the government, to drive us into debt. I think we know what needs to be done in American and I think we’re ready to do it. And I’m ready to lead on day one, to run this government, to manage this economy.”

Her team of Congressional backers are piling on now in a conference call. Barney Frank, emphasizing that many Democrats think Reagan and the GOP did awful things to middle- and working-class Americans over the last couple of decades, said it’s not just a matter of style. “This is not simply stylistic (though) I do think Sen Obama exaggerates style over substance.”

[asthmaticeog]

1. EARTH TO HIL: POT... KETTLE...

[sniffa]

38. indeed

:thumbsup:

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Awesome response Clinton. You speak for me.

[rodeodance]

13. yes, and I do like how she contrasted herself with these examples:

“I don’t think it’s a better idea to privatize Social Security. I don’t think it’s a better idea to try to eliminate the minimum wage. I don’t think it’s a better idea to undercut health benefits and to give drug companies the right to make billions of dollars by providing prescription drugs to medicare recipients. I don’t think it’s a better idea to shut down the government, to drive us into debt.

[durrrty libby]

33. That was a great response. I hope she keeps hammering away

[jefferson_dem]

16. She lies for you, you mean.

n/t

[rodeodance]

21. NO, matter of fact, I do NOT mean that at all.

[jefferson_dem]

32. Ok.

Sorry if that came across as too harsh. :hi:

[Evergreen Emerald]

43. I am so tired of your posts

You are like a gnat: awaiting a Clinton post so you can buzz in and attack it.

[Zynx]

3. As a Hillary supporter let me say, this is bogus.

He didn't say the Republican ideas were better, he simply was saying that they had been offering a clearer agenda. That was the way I took it anyway.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

22. yup. that's what i was about to post. - eom

[goodgd_yall]

30. Oh puh-leaze

Saying the Republicans have been the party of ideas is an ass-kiss for the Republican Party.

[robbedvoter]

36. How's about some book quotes to enlighten you is "party of ideas" not clear enough?

page 32:

"That Reagan's message found such a receptive audience spoke not only to his skills as a communicator; it also spoke to the failures of liberal government, during a period of economic stagnation, to give middle-class voters any sense that it was fighting for them. For the fact was government at every level had become to cavalier about spending taxpayer money. Too often bureaucracies were oblivious to the cost of their mandates. A lot of liberal rhetoric did seem to value rights and entitlements over duties and responsibilities. Reagan may have exagerrated the sins of the welfare state, and certainly liberals were right to complain that his domestic policies tilted heavily toward elites, with corporate raiders making tidy profits throughout the eighties while unions were busted and the income for the average working stiff flatlined.

Nevertheless, by promising to side with those who worked hard, obeyed the law, cared for their families, loved their country, Reagan offered Americans a sense of common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4087189&mesg_id=4087491
and
Pages 156-57

"The conservative revolution Reagan helped usher in gained traction because Reagan's central insight--that the liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucratic, with Democratic policy makers more obsessed with slicing the economic pie than with growing he pie--contained a good deal of truth."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4090801&mesg_id=4092172

[HeraldSquare212]

4. But DOMA and welfare reform were fine with Bill

and Hillary liked the neo-con war. Obama made an observation about GOP ideas: Bill and Hillary helped enact their ideas.

[Kittycat]

5. Where did he say, "BETTER" ideas?

Jesus I'm getting sick watching you all spin around so much.

[jefferson_dem]

10. He didn't say that. She's making shit up...

Again.

[Kittycat]

27. Of course she is... She probably did some overnight poll testing of key words for reaction too.

Better, in deed. What a loser.

[robbedvoter]

37. "Reagan's central insight-that the liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucrati

with Democratic policy makers more obsessed with slicing the economic pie than with growing he pie--contained a good deal of truth."
Audacity of Hope p 156
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4090801&mesg_id=4092172

[Maven]

42. Please. In American politics words like "ideas" and "values"

have normative content. They're associated with positive traits in a politician.

"The party of ideas" is a phrase that Republicans use to promote their own party. It's not even original on Barack's part.

Stop parsing.

[BootinUp]

6. News Bulletin: A VOLLEY of shots were fired today in the Democratic

Presidential nomination.

:bounce:

[rodeodance]

15. yup--was pretty quick there for a few moments

[Renew Deal]

7. Obama to Hil: That includes the war in Iraq.

:eyes:

[bunnies]

9. word. nt

[jefferson_dem]

8. What part of "even though I did not agree with him on many issues"

does Hillary not understand.

How stupid is she ... or does she think we are?

[robbedvoter]

39. the part about "liberal welfare state had grown complacent and overly bureaucratic, "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4090801&mesg_id=4092172

[JTFrog]

11. GOP IDEAS LIKE IWR, KYL-LIEBERMAN, PATRIOT ACT....

She can take her hypocrisy and shove it.

[ccpup]

26. or Obama's baby S. 970 perhaps? n/t

[rocktivity]

12. Obama never said Reagan's ideas were GOOD.

Just that he did a good job of convincing the public that they were. Of COURSE they were bad, which is what everybody remembers now--including the Republicans canonizing him. I think Obama's ulterior motive was to undermine him as a right wing talking point, and he's succeeded.

:headbang:
rocknation

[rodeodance]

18. I bet he has people looking back into history to find that word.

[Perry Logan]

14. In Obama World...

...you're racist if you acknowledge LBJ's role in passing the Voting Rights Act...

but you're a man of vision if you're inspired by the race-baiting union-buster Ronald Reagan.

Obama's followers have repeatedly smeared both Clintons, the Clinton record, anyone who workds for Clinton, anyone who favors Clinton, anyone who endorses Clinton, anyone who doesn;t stick his finger down his throat when he says the name Clinton, etc., etc. It's hard to believe they think this will win people over--if they even think about what they say before they say it.

Their latest trick is to pump up Ronald Reagan. It's like they're confused about this whole Democrat-Republican thing.

[Bok_Tukalo]

17. Perhaps she did not read what he said

I did not see the word "better" in his comments.

[indimuse]

19. Words of the Wise...and right as usual!

Go Hillary.:headbang:

[suston96]

20. He said, she said........

He said that "the GOP was the party of ideas." That implies that the Democrats were NOT the party of ideas. Or, that the GOP was better at ideas than the Democrats.

Pretty clear to me.

[BeyondGeography]

23. This is Hillary at her obnoxious worst

Here's the full quote:

“I think it’s fair to say that the Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10-15 years in the sense that they were challenging conventional wisdom.”

She's plainly distorting his words here. If you want to know why a lot of people won't give this woman the time of day if/when she's the nominee, here's a good example why.

[Invidious]

24. Yup

It's crap like that that is going to insure a GE loss as 20-30% of Dems don't vote for her.

[Egnever]

31. Yup more of the same dishonest BS from the Clinton camp

I dont believe a word she says anymore.

[zulchzulu]

25. Goldwater must be rolling in his grave

This sh*t is getting too funny.

[goodgd_yall]

28. Obama handed it to her

Hillary didn't even have to stretch for that opportunity to slap him down. I feel much more comfortable with a candidate like Hillary who has a clear perspective on the past 10 to 15 past years.

[durrrty libby]

34. You bet ....he handed it to her on a silver platter.

[Cameron27]

29. Barney said he was stupefied

by Obama's comments.

"This notion that style in the presidency trumps substance, is a terrible error. Ronald Reagan was a dedicated right-winger in every aspect," Frank said in a campaign conference call."

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jZgpk7gY2IC3i9AbIPMwqpIIVcVA


I am too, especially by these:

"excesses of the 60's and 70's" ---> Obama

Democrat's disease = issues that prevent Democrats from getting elected ---> Obama's spokesman on CNN

[robbedvoter]

40. Very well said - I've been trying to make this point all day, yesterday

Just as you cannot divorce strategy from ideology. Frank has a way with words.

[robbedvoter]

35. Keep going like that Hillary, and you may get my vote! This is good!

And to those spinning: style and substance are one and the same with ideologues.
Strategy and ideology cannot be divorced - as it was hatred and permissiveness to be bigoted and racist that was the truth in the "optimism" BS.
Angry white men were given permission to loosen their belt in public and show their bigotry and resentment at the civil rights victories (code named "excesses of the 60s and 70s)

[Lucinda]

41. She's right.

[BenDavid]

44. Barak is the candidate of say nothing,but say it loudly,say it well

and put on a show so that you will attract the most people and generate the most energy.Obama only moves you if you don’t pay attention. If I want to be inspired I will go watch Hoosiers.

HRC beats him each time she shifts the dynamic so that substance matter, and I hope we have a more informed public that really should be ashamed of themselves for supporting bush and if obama is the nominee, watch out america.......