Kucinich Supporters Only!

[peace13]

Thank you for speaking out about Dennis Kucinich and supporting him. The fact that many here are content that a Democratic candidate is locked out of the primary debates is astounding to me. Why don't they see that eventually their candidate will be manipulated in exactly the same way. Our Democratic candidate is being picked by the Corporations once again, this time in front of our eyes,and people (other than Kucinich folks) are not bothered by this. The rules and laws of the land are no longer the peoples, they have fallen into the hands of the Corporations and the candidates beholden to them. If Obama, Clinton and Edwards refuse to speak out about this they are not the people I can trust to give us the change we so desperately seek. Thanks for being here. Peace, Kim

[robbedvoter]

1. Gravel supoorter here - and yeah, the disdain is sould crunching!

And this comes from people who think their preferences are not reflected in the results because they are "left" of the mainstream...I wonder where does this puts me.

[peace13]

7. I was unaware that they had held Gravel out until yesterday.

It would make sense that Kucinich would follow. Guess Richardson got the message and went home. I'm sure they hope that Dennis will go away. I feel your pain.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. Has Gravel withdrawn from the campaign?

If not, I'm mad that they didn't let him debate as well as Kucinich. All through the earlier debates, Gravel, Kucinich, Richardson, Dodd, and Biden were basically ignored.

The media have their agenda and it comes from the corporate owners. This system is totally screwed up.

[peace13]

26. I had read that Gravel had been held out of a debate earlier.

Don't know if he is still in or not.

[grantcart]

2. I like Dennis but he is not even campaigning full time

He recently visited my district and was conducting regular business of his congressional committee (yes he was good, no it was not critical or urgent in nature). Kucinich has created the problem because he is not even campaigning full time and you cannot blame the other candidates or their supporters for that.

[peace13]

3. Not true.

Sorry if you are upset that he still represents the people while campaigning. He does have a job 'unlike others'. He met the criteria in Nevada, he was invited and then they changed the rules. Sorry but you are wrong about this.

[grantcart]

8. Three weeks ago

Kucinich visited in San Diego on hearings of fire prevention. He was well covered in the media. While he was here there were no open forums to meet him, no fund raisers. I like the guy but it certainly appears that he has a "debate only" strategy.

[DemBones DemBones]

14. So he didn't engage in politics while doing Congressional work?

Isn't that called . . . honesty?

[grantcart]

20. he is honest

but we all know that if his presidential campaign was the major priority of his life then it would show. My point is not to say anything bad about Kucinich who I agree with and admire. My point is that Kucinich supporters should not vent their frustration on the other candidates when he is not that committed to his own campaign and is basically trying to conduct a "debate only" campaign.

[grantcart]

30. Ok then a friendly question

Kucinich, who in many ways is a voice of reason (see a nice thing), wants to be in the Nevada debate.

Can anyone enlighten me on what campaigning he has done besides the debate?

If, repeat if, the answer is not much would you then agree that he is conducting basically a debate only strategy and that is not sufficient to be considered for the debate. (For the record when the question came up about Kucinich being included in the New Hampshire debate I posted my support - not that that swayed anyone anyway).

[slipslidingaway]

31. He has been out there, but the big media concentrates on those

who do not rattle the cages too much and who are not a real threat to their interests.

[grantcart]

37. I was puzzled why Kucinich supporters were not answering

my question on what campaigning DK was doing in Nevada besides lobbying to be in the debate.

To the question what campaigning has DK actually done in Nevada the answer is none

Here is the link to his schedule http://www.dennis4president.com/upcoming-events /

If that's how he wants to run his campaign thats fine. I just don't think it's fair for Kucinich supporters to be angry at the other candidates for not aggressively lobbying for Kucinich to be in the Nevada debate when he hasn't campaigned there. On that narrow point would you agree?

[wintersoulja]

40. He planned to be in Nevada until Sunday

that was my understanding, then he was heading our way. It appears the circus may have changed things, but you should probably give campaign advice to someone with a chance, dont you think?
Oh, dont forget what a bad boy he was campaigning in Michigan!
But then, he isnt really campaigning.
And he doesnt take care of business for his constituents.
Because hes always campaigning.
Except when he never campaigns.
Hey, Im getting the hang of this.
He's such a complete flake. He's never achieved anything.
Pie in the sky impeacher.
Litigator!

[grantcart]

43. but the ones you should blame for Kucinich not compaigning in

Nevada are the other candidates - its their fault.

[wintersoulja]

44. I aint blaming anyone for anything

Im so completely confident in Dennis's judgement, intelligence and integrity, that Id be tremendously arrogant to even think of second guessing the man. One thing that is transparent in this process is the mean motivations of his detractors, who really have to work to demean a man who stands for not only impeaching the war criminals in power, but PROSECUTING THEM!
If that were the only thing he was proposing, it would be enough for justice minded citizens.
But, no, he is across the board on the RIGHT SIDE OF ALL THE IMPORTANT ISSUES.
Not nearly as electable as the "go slow" juggernaut who would gently hold the hand of the Bush administration as they "mismanage" an illegal, unjust and transparent travesty against fellow human beings. I know I sleep better supporting DK, and Ive always kept my hands clean, just like him.

[grantcart]

45. you are not but the OP is

quote
If Obama, Clinton and Edwards refuse to speak out about this they are not the people I can trust to give us the change we so desperately seek. Thanks for being here. Peace, Kim
unquote

[wintersoulja]

47. Im sorry are we switching points?

I was talking about his campaigning decisions.
Let me be perfectly clear.
I BLAME THE TOP TIER CANDIDATES for his exclusion from these debates.
Im not dumb enough to think MSNBC changed their own mind overnight.
As if the real facts ever filter throught the filter of consolidated media.
Does that help?
Two different things-his campaigning choices- and his blacklisting from debates.

[grantcart]

53. Ok we are back on point

in NH i supported Dennis in getting in the debate because he was campaigning vigorously there. He has not been to Nevada and is not registering national support so I don't agree with any candidate taking a "debate only" campaign strategy.

I understand that you might disagree with that and that is fine. However there is a strong condemnation by Kucinich supporters that the other major candidates should be condemned for not including him and my point is that its unfair to condemn them when DK is not campaigning aggressively.

There is an inevitable winnowing process and by not showing up in Nevada DK has made it easy for them to not include him on that point. I would think that your frustration should at least in part be directed at DK. However there is very little spirit in DU for any critical analysis at one's own candidate.

For example I support Edwards but golly he hasn't expanded or changed his stump speech one syllable I could give it. And I shudder at the macabre thought of taking Mr. James Low and the other family to all of these campaign events. I agree with his message but if you keep throwing the same pitch your not going to succeed.

[wintersoulja]

56. Its all in how you look at it

"if you play the film backwards you see us help him up and send him on his way"
RIP Bill.
Like I said, its the candidates who excluded him from a debate he was invited to.
Just because many supporters still base their arguments on a media based reality doesnt change the actual facts, hidden as they are. Facts are not something the media excells in providing, particularly in an election year.

Be that as it is, I havent lived in Carson City for thirty year now, and I dont know what his personal appearance schedule amounts to, but I do know he was going to be there before he dropped down here on monday. He has to make his own decisions, and the incredible circus of voter disenfranchisement, with entire LARGE states being removed from the process by our privatized demockracy king makers, really makes the whole sham all the more obvious.

Its time we put aside the personality cult worship and started working for the common good.
Its just a damn shame altruism is a genetic characteristic and not a learned one.
Probably exactly why divide and conquer works as perfectly as it does.

[Desertrose]

57. One simple question- were the debates shown in NV only or nationally?

I could understand the argument of not actively campaigning if this were for NV only, but the debate was televised nationally.

There was no real reason to exclude Kucinich except they don't like his message and don't want to deal with it. Their "excuse" is he isn't seriously campaigning.

And hell yes, I blame the other candidates. They are clearly more concerned with their win than any sort of fair process.


I will keep mentioning this in the hope than some folks will finally understand there is much more at stake here than th inclusion/exclusion of DK.

[grantcart]

58. So far this month Kucinich

has campaigned in two states NH and Michigan. In 15 days of campaigning he has 4 days in which he appeared in one event and 4 days he had no events scheduled. I understand how passionately people feel about him but that does not mean that he has put in anything like a national campaign. He's basically there to drive the agenda.

[wintersoulja]

60. do you appreciate the schedule he is on?

He flew from LV to WDC because they were trying to slide some business under the door.
The guy is trying to be everywhere he can as best he might, and frankly, a lot of states are
not ideal places for his time. Then theres the low budget his campaign is running on. Theres a lot of problems for him, but I think you expect him to be someone he isnt. His record speaks perfectly clearly, and gladhanding is (AND I KNOW THIS FOR A FACT watching Elizabeth Kucinich here 6 weeks ago) less important to him than taking care of the important things that certainly go unmentioned on the filters.
I think what youre saying is he hasnt raised the corporate contributions to compete door to door with advertising and fundraisers, so why bother supporting a vocal anti-war candidates inclusion in this postmodern pro occupation climate?
You may have a point, but not one that changes his supporters needs and intentions.

[grantcart]

62. No I don't appreciate the schedule he is on

all that i have access to is http://www.dennis4president.com/upcoming-events/ also when he visited San Diego I was hoping to go and see him but nothing was scheduled he had a brief congressional hearing (one that I think he should have bypassed if was working on larger national issues in a campaign for the presidency.

But I could be wrong, it just seems that he isn't putting in the 18 hour days that all three of the major candidates is and is still expecting to reap the same seat at the debate table. Willingness to sacrifice and focus entirely on the campaign is, wisely or not, a practical reality of running for the presidency.

[wintersoulja]

75. well heres your chance

If youre near Reno anyway. I got this last night-

They will be at the University of Nevada in Reno tomorrow for a pre-caucus protest of Dennis’ exclusion from the debates. They will leave Reno after the Nevada Caucus vote by noon on Saturday and go through South Lake Tahoe and spend Saturday evening at a reception in Carmichael near Sacramento.

[grantcart]

79. thanks

and I applaud your tencacity.

[peace13]

67. You are correct I do hold the C, E, O, to a standard.

We need to be respecting the election process in this country. The Rthugs have shown us how dangerous it is when you don't. Our candidates need to stand up and do the right thing. Sometimes we do something just because it is the right thing to do. Aside from that Kuicnich had met the criteria for NV, had been invited and then the invitation was rescinded when the criteria was changed. That is a fact. Peace, Kim

[slipslidingaway]

51. Check his old calendar & he still has a day job. He met the criteria

they invited him and then changed the rules.

If they are against corporate media it would have been the perfect time to say something.

They were silent.

[penguin7]

55. He has a campaign office in the state

Nevada
Kucinich Nevada Headquarters
601 S Rancho Drive Quail Park 2 Suite C18
Las Vegas, Nv 89106
702-477-0019
702-386-5822 fax
Office Hours 1-6pm Mon-Fri
PHONE BANK For username and Password, contact Raj Rathor

Diana Smith Raj Rathor
702-812-7957 702-204-8873
Co-Chairs Nevada Campaign
Kucinich for President 2008


The volunteers are gathering please join us there is much to do!

[wintersoulja]

6. Kucinich is never at home taking care of bidness/Kucinich doesnt campaign!

HAHAHAHA. And the three piece band plays on. How many Iraqis die today?
Who cares?

[cosmicdot]

65. you mentioned this already in another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3144391#3144499

just saying

[Cleita]

4. Worse than that, they are being picked by judges.

Randi Rhodes said rightfully yesterday that the Supreme Court picked our President and now the Nevada State Supreme Court is picking our candidates. Apparently, we the people, have no say anymore. Welcome to the United Banana Republic of America where you have to vote for the candidates preselected for you not the ones you want.

[onenote]

9. oh please.

Before the court ruled, DK had participated in over a dozen primary debates. Did he ever get a noticable "bounce" in local (or national) polls after any one of those appearances? If Randi thinks that if DK had appeared in the Nevada debate it would have had a significant impact on the ultimate outcome of the Democratic candidate selection process she also, presumably, believes in the tooth fairy.

[wintersoulja]

13. Hey, Ive been waiting for your ruling on ABC's exclusion

what with the "public airwaves" and all.
Course, the voters had already rejected him by then, right?
Before the first primary, right?
The old tooth fairy defense too!
Sight for sore eyes...

Lets just quit pretending its not Clinton/Edwards excluding him,
and have a real discussion sometime maybe?

[wintersoulja]

24. I'm still waiting...

cant bill for that topic?

[wintersoulja]

32. is it just me or can someone not argue both cases?

I know hes just on lunch break.
Amazing what some people can do at work.

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Oh, please. He got very little time to speak at any debate.

Nobody but Clinton, Edwards, and Obama got to speak. The media did this deliberately.

[truedelphi]

18. And in the weird illogic of those who are helping it be a Banana Republic

When you point out that that is what it is, you are told to shut up and think about voting on Election Day 2008, and to vote for the puppet creature that has survived the corporations's mauling - otherwise our country will be ruined.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. Dennis is working for all the candidates

He's the one that has put Diebold on notice that vote counting will be watched. I hope that whoever gets the nomination is willing to be as courageous at insisting on recounts--I don't want another roll over play dead moment like we had in 2004.

He's the one that has spotlighted the bias of the media--I think Edwards supporters finally realize this.

He's a real threat to corporations, which is one reason he has so many corporate sponsored "Democratic" challengers for his House seat, including one that doesn't even live in the district. The corporations are trying to silence him because he speaks the TRUTH!!!!!

[FrenchieCat]

10. I agree.......

Kucinich is making a difference!

[onenote]

15. "the corporations" -- could you be more specific?

A lot of posters love to rail against "corporations" as if simply being a corporate entity, in and of itself, is evil.

Well, here's a clue for you. Democratic Underground has many of the attributes of a "corporation" -- its actually a "limited liability company", which is a form of business ownership that has some of the attributes of a partnership and some of the attributes of a corporation. For example, the owners of an LLC have the liability protection of a corporation and cannot be held personally liable for debts unless they have signed a personal guarantee.

So maybe a better, or at least more precisely defined term, might be helpful.

[peace13]

16. GE...NBC...CNN

Clear enough?

[awaysidetraveler]

64. Wow... and here I thought I was the only one who knew about GE's latest game.

On Feb. 25th, GE is going after Obama by way of Rezko.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/awaysidetraveler/15

This is the annotated version, though it contains a single error: the original article from Nov. 5th is now available.
It is nevertheless inaccurate.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/awaysidetraveler/16

And here's why the Nov. 5th article is inaccurate, in case you're interested.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=3765

On a personal level, I prefer Kucinich, though I do think that he's a little too much to hope for.

Peace,

Ty

[cyclezealot]

11. Kucinich keeps his promise to his district.

He serves Cleveland first, as their Representative. He has the lowest percentage of missed votes compared to all Congress members running for Congress. His biggest drawback is his position on Media democracy and fighting media consolidation . The media has been after him since before the primary season started. No corporate cash for Kucinich. / Edwards particularly infuriates me. He has no conscious about the speech rights of others. Collaborated with Hillary to get Kucinich out of the debates. But, wait. The media dislikes Edwards almost as much as Kucinich. But, not quite as much. But, I predict Edwards problems with the media will soon start. The Des Moines Register started the anti Edwards bent. That beating up on Edwards has no more than just started. Tit for Tat, John.

[wintersoulja]

17. you were just baiting the non-supporters, right?

besides, DK supporters are all woo woo and moonbatshitcrazyhippypeaceniknaderites who should shut up and leave DU etc etc.
Love the war or leave the party...

[peace13]

21. Actually there are all kinds of warm and fuzzy places for

Obama, Clinton and Edwards people to meet here. If a Kucinich person joins in with comments about the 'top' three, technically we could be banned. Questioning the honored candidates is not supported here. Calling out the fact that O,C and E do not stand up for a fair election process when they partake in debates that exclude candidates that meet the 'corp criteria' is not looked upon kindly. I really was trying to connect with like minded folks. Peace, Kim

[wintersoulja]

23. youre on the right track

theyre the ones going off the rails of their crazy train.
reformed, change of hearts, mismanaged war, change, hope, warm and fuzzy is right.
blood and thought processes.

[DemBones DemBones]

22. Clinton, Edwards, Obama have shown us they do not care about fair elections.

They should have insisted that Dennis Kucinich (and Mike Gravel, if he hasn't withdrawn from the race) be included in the debate.

Of course, they have been given the lion's share of time in all the debates and if they cared about democracy, they would have protested that from the get-go. Instead, we all saw Clinton and Edwards conspiring about getting rid of other candidates. I think Edwards is going to have a nasty surprise when Clinton and Obama decide to push him offstage.

[peace13]

25. 'Clinton, Edwards, Obama have shown us they do not care about fair elections.'

I think that is what has hit me the hardest, the fact that it is A - OK with them and with many on this board. Even the Rthugs get to have their full glorious circus on debate night! If they can sort out two 'top' candidates you can bet that they will follow suit. Wouldn't have thought it would be the Dems who would suppress the message. Peace, Kim

[no name no slogan]

27. Dennis cannot win. He is not kute enuf

nor is he electable-- whatever that means.

Oh sorry, you wanted REAL reasons why he can't win. Sorry, once you get in the habit of parroting what the rest of the crowd says, it's hard to quit.

The funny thing is, Dennis has probably won more elections than any other candidate currently in the race.

[MuseRider]

28. Something I posted yesterday

in a fit of depression over the state of our country, our elections and the Democratic party. Mostly it was addressing the posters you see blasting K for one thing or another, this time his supporters for all the "whiny threads". I can't rewrite it or express it any better so I copied it and am pasting it here. I am so sad.


You know, I hope nothing like this ever happens to one of the anointed two and the still hanging on 3rd. We see enough threads whining about every little slight or utterance that seems to cast a less than perfect light on them or tips their little halos. I can't even imagine the screaming if this happened to one of them. I would bet, even after all the horse shit that gets posted here about DK and his "thugs" (from something I saw earlier), we would be right behind every one of them demanding that this treatment stop. They will never get my vote but I can certainly stand for democracy without supporting the candidate.

Who is it that is asking for and paying for a vote count in NH? He will not gain anything for his campaign by doing this but as he said, it is the right thing to do for our country. Who has the least money and who is paying for it? Still, the horse shit flies like everyone just can't wait to get their piece of the fun by bashing the one who is actually doing the things we have been screaming about en masse for the last 7 years. Will he be held in higher regard for exposing the fraud?

Seems funny to me that people are so damned disgusted with this. Makes me wonder what makes a democrat these days. I certainly don't recognize a good part of the rhetoric or the tactics anymore.

It is one thing to argue about policy but to denigrate the man and his supporters just shows people for who they are and I am damned glad I only know them on the Internet.

[peace13]

29. Well said

and worth repeating. Peace, Kim

[Desertrose]

38. Thanks for reposting this, Muse...

it is so true but some are so busy making sure they pick a *winner* they can't see it.

Makes me sad too that an entire community of Dems, can't find it in themselves to stand up for another Dem...for the rights of one of their own.

Pretty telling as to how much the Dem party has changed....how easily some give up rights, as long as it doesn't hurt them directly, who cares.

Just wait til it's their turn.....and their turn WILL come.

:hug: MR
DR

[Fire Walk With Me]

69. "bashing the one who is actually doing the things we have been screaming about en masse for the last

7 years."

Amen.

[hootinholler]

33. This just in, Reid gives his regards to Dennis.

In the link in this thread.

-Hoot

[peace13]

39. That clip is not for the weak of heart.

Talk about a stab in the back. The only funny part was when he was naming the candidates off and referred to Hillary as Bill Clinton. Reid may not be firing on all cylinders. Thanks for posting that. Peace, kim

[Joe Fields]

34. Dennis is my candidate. That will not change.

[slipslidingaway]

35. K&R, also please see this article on privatization of oil and give

it a K&R if so inclined.

This topic always sinks :(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2702613

Nationalists Stirring in Iraq "..blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil"

"On January 13 an emerging Sunni-Shiite nationalist bloc in Iraq signed a groundbreaking agreement aimed at ending Iraq's civil war, blocking the privatization of Iraq's oil industry and checkmating the breakaway Kurdish state. It's a big step forward, and it could change the face of Iraqi politics in 2008.

For the past two years, Iraqi nationalists--opposed to the US occupation, opposed to Al Qaeda and opposed to Iran's heavyhanded influence in Iraqi affairs--have struggled to assert themselves. The nascent coalition contains the seeds of true national reconciliation in Iraq, but it has emerged independently of the United States. Unrelated to the constant American pressure on the government of Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki to meet various reconciliation "benchmarks," the new coalition is designed either to sweep Maliki out of office or force him to join it.

Enormous obstacles stand in the way of the Sunni-Shiite coalition, and Iraq is just as likely to descend into a new round of intense civil war as it is to stabilize under a new ruling bloc. Still, it could work, but there's a big if--if the United States steps back and gets out of the way...

...In the end, Iraq is still a shattered nation. Its economy is a shambles. The sectarian civil war has eased, but violence is everywhere. In the past week, two major US military actions--a sweeping offensive just north of Baghdad and one of the heaviest aerial bombardments of an area south of the capital--killed scores. The situation around Kirkuk is explosive. And intra-Shiite violence in Basra and other cities in the south simmers just below civil war levels. Even without US interference, it might still take a miracle for a stable Iraqi coalition to take root."

[Hell Hath No Fury]

36. In 2004 I had the pleasure...

of voting for him in the California primary. I was thrilled to have finally found a candidate that almost perfectly embodies my values and positions. In the last few years, time and again he has stepped forward and said what needs saying, and fought for what is important to me.

The more I see the Dems like Dennis who speak out in spite of pressures and do the real leading when it counts, the less tolerant I am of the those who would play the worst kind of politics in order to get elected.

I will be casting my vote for him again in the February 5th primary and, most likely, writing him in for the general.

[MuseRider]

41. From one uppity woman DK supporter

to another :applause:

That is exactly the way I feel especially your second paragraph. WTG, you nailed it.

[Desertrose]

42. My tolerance for these complicit bastids is 0%.

I agree with you MR!


:hi:
DR

[MuseRider]

50. Mine too DR.

:hi:

It sickens me but what sickens me more is to see the support they have for doing (or not doing) what they have been doing (or not doing :)). Who in the hell are we in this country? Groupies I think and that is not good. :shrug:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

52. Uppity Women rule!

:hi:

I really noticed Dennis' and Gravel's absence at the last debate - there was no one left to counter much of the bullshit that was being spun, or to call them on past positions/votes. Their "universal health care" sounds great when it is just the three of them talking and Dennis isn't there to say what is really means to Americans.

Dennis, Russ, the Barbara's Boxer and Lee, Maxeen Waters, and Paul Wellstone back in the day have all showed us it is possible to be a politician and tell do tell the truth, do the right thing, and aphold Democratic and democratic values during tough times.

It's a damn shame the other Democrats don't follow suit.

[MuseRider]

61. Yes we do rule!

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

54. Great point !!! And most likely a contributing factor to those who

do not want his voice heard.

"...The more I see the Dems like Dennis who speak out in spite of pressures and do the real leading when it counts, the less tolerant I am of the those who would play the worst kind of politics in order to get elected..."

[elaineb]

46. You speak for me, as do the other Kucinich supporters on this thread

I don't really like to post very often, although I've been here for 3 years now, but this Kucinich-trashing of the last few weeks has really brought me out of hiding. (I think about one-quarter of my total posts have been just in the last two weeks!). I'm glad to see so many Kucinich supporters are still fighting the good fight, not ready to give up on him or on improving the quality of the national debate (and that's one debate they can't shut Dennis out of!).

Thanks to all of his supporters, old and new, who have been not only defending Kucinich but defending the very concept of a fair, democratic process.

And even though this was supposed to be a thread for "Kucinich supporters only" (and notice how quickly a few of the bashers gravitated to it?), still, I'd like to also give a heartfelt thank you to all the other candidates' supporters who spoke out in favor of having Dennis be given his rightful place at the last debate.

[Desertrose]

48. Glad you are speaking out, elaineb.

It is nice to see so many more Kucinich supporters here.

...and I am so glad Dennis speaks for us....

:hug:
DR

[peace13]

49. Well put. n/t

[MuseRider]

59. Please keep posting.

I am happy to see you here.

Peace.

[caseycoon]

63. Dennis is a Liberal Progressive Democrat.

I don't know what the rest of them are.
DK is doing a great deal for Democracy during this primary season even though he has been sidelined by the MSM & discounted by so many others including the other candidates.
Kudos to Dennis! He is MY President!
:applause:

[Yurovsky]

68. The one and only running, sadly ...

the others are pretty much corporate (Obama - somewhat, Edwards - a bit more, Clinton - ewwww, might as well vote for Dick Cheney).

Why are the pooh-bahs within the party so out of step with rank & file democrats??? I'll never understand, for the life of me.

[caseycoon]

73. They want POWER. To hell with the PEOPLE.

Scarey, huh?

[Fire Walk With Me]

66. Well-said, kick and recommend!

[peace13]

71. Thanks for that. n/t

[Zorra]

70. Yep, it's even more frustrating than it was in '04. n/t

[eridani]

72. Yes! Keep on asking for that pony, even if you will eventually accept a kitten.

If you want $3000 for your used car, ask for $5000. If you hope to pass 75% of your legislative agenda, ask for 150%.

[wintersoulja]

76. None of us will settle for the Dogs of War

and that leaves us no other choice, does it?

[Fire Walk With Me]

74. Morning kick.

[flvegan]

77. Real change means that we, as a collective whole

won't have quite so much to bitch 'n moan about anymore.

I think that there are a lot of folks that really don't want that.

[peace13]

78. Interesting point.

Thinking about the aftermath of this election I wonder how those folks will feel when they get what they asked for? I also wonder where we fit in when the change we feel is needed doesn't happen. Will I be looking for a bucket of sand to put my head in , will I go one more round to try and make things better for the good of the order or will I decide that my brain just can't take it anymore? Either way it will be a life altering event. Peace, Kim