DEBATE Thread #2

[slinkerwink]

discuss, watch, and listen...

[neoteric lefty]

1. i really like this debate format

over the "1-minute bake-n-shake" debates that we have had.

[Renew Deal]

3. There were too many candidates.

They can now focus on the issues.

[slinkerwink]

4. same here too....

I miss Dean---he would've done great in this format.

[youngred]

10. No way

LKing is a horrible moderator, the loudest talkers closest to the camera get the most attention and its a shouting match.

[shoopnyc123]

2. What's up with Larry's head? Or is it my TV? eom

[goobergunch]

5. Please say what's going on in the debate

Not just your opinions.

Some of us can't see the debate, so we have no idea what's going on except what's posted here.

[seventhson]

6. PLEASE tell us what is being said , we do not all have CNN

Details, people, details.

What did DK say on Iraq?

etc.

PLEASE

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. What did DK say about anything, period.

Go, Dennis!

[BootinUp]

13. Kucinich concerned about Kerry's IWR answer

Kerry: I had regrets about the actions of the President

[youngred]

17. Kucinich pressing Kerry on plan Iraq

Kerry denies wanting to send 40,000 more troops.

Nothing to suggest (Kerry) will bring troops home.

[K8-EEE]

30. I know you can listen on my NPR station, try here, they stream...

try www.kcrw.org

[seventhson]

Not happening. Got this message (but thanks)

Due to Internet rights restrictions, KCRW.com will be unable to stream the debate via our Simulcast audio channel.

[TheDonkey]

7. Kerry has brought down the house, damn.

He still needs to cut his answers by 15 seconds. But he is doing amazingly well. I hope he gets better.

Being extra harsh on Edwards but Kerry got it before last debate.

[K8-EEE]

39. Kerry Is Sounding GOOD!!

He's a good debater, I would love to see him go up against GWB!!

[Skip Intro]

8. OK - Edwards vs Kerry on the IWR issue?

Both were on the (bloody) wrong side, imho, but in this debate, Edwards just got creamed, imho.

What pisses me off is that Kucinich and Sharpton were both silenced on the issue.

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

9. Sharpton is pretty good.

He seems to be the star.

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. Welcome WHH :)

[revcarol]

20. dID they let DK answer ANYTHING ABOUT IRAQ?

.

[berner59]

22. Kerry is very good...

Hitting his stride... I can't wait for a Bush/Kerry debate...HE IS SO CONFIDENT!!! And no smirking!!

I like this informal format...

[liberalcanuck]

26. I agree. He's a lot more 'polished' than the other candidates. n/t

[Rainbowreflect]

12. Are they going to let Dennis & Al talk about Iraq after the break?

I certainly hope so.

[robsul82]

15. Ooooh, DK's hitting Kerry.

Good points, DK.

Later.

RJS

[seventhson]

19. what points? PLEASE tell us!

[robsul82]

Basically he said that Kerry's just gonna continue the war.

True.

Later.

RJS

[TheDonkey]

16. Kucinich is debating Kerry head on.

Wanting to know if Kerry wants to send 40K more troops over.

Kerry says no. Rotational thing.

[BootinUp]

18. Kucinich attacking Kerry on Iraq, you won't bring troops home now

[seventhson]

25. Did he use the word Quagmire?

what did he say? DK?

[BootinUp]

29. no don't think so

[neoteric lefty]

21. al

AL Sharpton: hundreds of thousands of us were marching against this war while they were voting for it.

Then he goes onto Haiti

[BootinUp]

23. Sharpton also sharply attacking on Iraq Resolution

[KittyWampus]

24. Dennis Should Wake Up, The UN Would Not & Cannot Handle Iraq

I am sick of his freaking suggesting it as if it would happen and be successful.

[BootinUp]

27. Wish Clark was in this debate eh?

The man with the plan

[maddezmom]

41. the good old days :)

[TheDonkey]

28. Kucinich on this issue imo is way out of control.

He was attacking kerry on ridiculous terms. UN in, US out sounds catchy but isn't a plan.

[seventhson]

I think it is our only way out of there. DK is right as rain!

as usual

[Rainbowreflect]

32. So what do you suggest?

We stay or just walk away?????

[Skip Intro]

33. Have we been successful? n/t

[youngred]

45. why wouldn't it be?

You have no proof, and they'd do a damn good job

Prove your assertion

[Mairead]

127. Someone should wake up, that's for sure

Don't you think it's a little presumptuous to suggest that the US is the only nation that can do anything? Because when you say the UN can't handle Iraq, you're saying that all the other nations in the world, working together, will fail, and that only the US can succeed. That sounds fairly stupidly chauvinistic, to me.

[slinkerwink]

31. kerry, you know edwards was right on that!

[goobergunch]

37. On what? (n/t)

[robbedvoter]

42. Huh?

[Skip Intro]

51. I miss your guitar-playing Dean sig pic

I really do.

btw, I think Edwards, so far, is getting kinda roughed up. He's still smilin' tho.

I miss that Dean pic, dangit.

:D

[BeyondGeography]

34. Edwards is being down-sized tonight

Brownstein gave him five chances to say why he was a better choice than Kerry and he failed each time.

On top of that, Kerry has had the much stronger answers on every topic (especially the death penalty, in my view).

Forty minutes to go; Edwards is extra well-done toast on Tuesday if he doesn't regroup in a hurry.

[robbedvoter]

35. Edwards discovered that the haiti policy is wrong ! Good on ya!

On Monday, he was asked about the uprising in Haiti and a U.S.-brokered proposal to end the strife. The plan, which so far has not been accepted by President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, would allow the beleaguered leader to finish his term in 2006 if he accepts the appointment of a new prime minister approved by rebels and allows parliamentary elections that should have occurred last year.
"I think for the time being, that's the correct approach," Edwards said. "I think we just have to continue to evaluate it."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-edwards24feb24,1,4278390.story?coll=la-home-politics

[katieforeman]

72. I was watching Congressman Wrangle on the Newshour tonight.

He said that Aristide had agreed to the deal but that now the Bush administration has flip- flopped. Yesterday, Powell said we would support Aristide. Today Powell said Aristide should consider if it's best for him to leave.

Aristide had agreed to to the US proposal. but today the Bush administration decided to abandon him.

[BootinUp]

Kerry looses me sometimes, maybe I am just to stupid

[Jackhammer Jesus]

36. Is it just me, or does this seem like...

A Kerry vs. Edwards debate?

It seems like each of the two get to respond to the other after every question.

That said, I definitely prefer this format to the other debates I've seen so far. Is the debate on Sunday going to be in the same format?

[JI7]

they usually are

kucinich and sharpton usually are not given much attention in any of the debates. only that debate with ted koppel did kucinich get attention and that's because kucinich specifically called koppel on his stupid questions like "raise your hand if you think dean can win" ?.

[Catherine Vincent]

38. This Janet Clayton woman looks like Condi Rice.

Eerie...

[undergroundrailroad]

93. Condi Rice and Janet Clayton Pictures

---

[youngred]

40. Haiti Question

Edwards: Favours multinational force, political solution, world leaders to work on pol solution, framework for Dem elections.

Blaming Bush (kinda unfairly) for disengagement onHaiti, we couldn't see it coming...not many did

Kerry: Bush Admin has a theological and ideological hatred of Aristide (follows his father's disastrous Haiti policy), Given power to rebels, give rebels ultimatium, restore Democracy.

Kucinich: NOT GIVEN A CHANCE TO REPLY

Sharpton: Sharpton jumps in on question of refugees. Why Cuban's allowed refugee status while Haitians haven't. Why have we blocked and stopped Haiti, why have we blocked WTO loan. Different Strokes for Different Folks. Going there soon

[revcarol]

49. Sounds like DK being shafted AGAIN.

and Kerry long-winded allowed to talk. Right or wrong?

[youngred]

57. yes, but Edwards and Sharpton spoke longer

each of them got a minute or two

[seventhson]

58. Like in Venezuela, Bush is backing the coup and the rebels

HE saw it coming. He planned it this way.

It's for the cheap labor.

Got this from a haitian friend

[youngred]

66. Of course

just like his father did in 1991 and then had to unfortunately leave for Clinton to clean up.

It's always been like this

[OKNancy]

Then you agree with Kerry who brought this up

I'm sure you are happy about that

[maddezmom]

43. wow, did you see that sneer from JE

:)

[TheDonkey]

44. WTF is edwards always smirking at!!!

he is always making goofy faces when he's not talking. Did anyone see him before Kerry began to speak.

[BootinUp]

46. Kerry just had a duh moment

took him 15 seconds to figure out how to answer a healthcare question

not good

[TheDonkey]

54. He wanted to make it short and sweet.

JK has a very good Healtcare plan.

[Mairead]

128. "JK has a very good Healtcare plan"

No, actually he has an incomplete, for-profit health *insurance* plan, which is not the same at all.

[undergroundrailroad]

47. Talking about Haiti. What would YOU do?

Edwards - "Work on a political solution"
Sharpton - Concerned about Haiti and wants more discussion about it.

---

Also a question about Haitians fleeing to US.

Would you embrace them or turn them away (excellent question).

Kerry - Yes
Edwards - Yes

---

NOTE: Ron Brownstein, one of the moderators of the debate( LA TIMES), is arrogant and it shows.

---

[Imajika]

48. The death penalty is going to be a problem for Kerry

The majority of America is pro-death penalty. The majority of America is DEFINATELY pro-death penalty for terrorists.

Kerry is against the dealth penalty - even for terrorists, at least last I heard he was. How is going to sell an anti-death penalty position to a nation that is so in favor of capital punishment?

I think that is going to be a big, big problem for Kerry.

Imajika

[SayitAintSo]

55. I agree .... a noble position but a problem ....

Especially in the south

[robbedvoter]

56. yeah, let's be bush to beat him!

hate gays, for death penalty. war and all that ...sigh

[BootinUp]

64. robbedvoter, question

when did you first start supporting Clark? Just curious.

[GreenArrow]

59. dp is an issue GOP has defined on its terms

it's past time the Democrats start re-defining it on theirs.

[BeyondGeography]

71. You're wrong; he favors executing terrorists

He said it tonight, and he's said it before.

[Rainbowreflect]

82. He said he was for it for terrorists.

Against is otherwise.

[robbedvoter]

50. healthcare is an isolated problem? Huh? Who believes that?

[DancingBear]

52. With regards to the foreign policy segment

That 20 minute segment proved - without a doubt - why John Edwards can not beat George Bush, but John Kerry can.

[youngred]

53. More fight picking by moderators

on healthcare and tax policy

Still not letting Al and DK speak

[robbedvoter]

62. Crowd booed King for intrerrupting DK

[Rainbowreflect]

65. Cutting off Dennis when he said the health care

corporations were making a cash crop out of the American people.

[robsul82]

60. Did Larry King just call DK a SOCIALIST?

Damn!

Jerkoff!

Later.

RJS

[TheDonkey]

69. DK responded well "predatory capitalism"

making americans cash crops.

[Skip Intro]

74. Yes he fvking did! n/t

[youngred]

61. Dennis talking up single Payer healthcare

Larry: (interrupts) So like Socialism?

:grr: ASS-Fucking Hole!

[revcarol]

70. Predatory capitalism which makes people a CASH CROP for ins. cos.

and pharma cos. GO DENNIS

zinger of the eve?

[youngred]

Should be

Don't count on it though :-(

Overshadowed by the slur of American politics-Socialist

[Thrill]

78. Here comes the son of the millworker speech

YAWN. If he was in Congress he would of voted for NAFTA

[theoceansnerves]

63. these moderators suck

and why does larry king keep interrupting and talking over the candidates?

[robbedvoter]

75. Wait until they get to NY - if they have NYT whores, you'll miss these

No one like Bronstein in NYC - at least not in aposition to make him moderator

[Skip Intro]

67. LK just accused DK of "socialism"

because DK was pushing universal health care - and he listed it: health, dental, vision - and LK effin' said it was socialism.

what an ass

[shoopnyc123]

68. okay y'all...WHAT LIBERAL MEDIA!!!

[MoonRiver]

73. Kerry has never been better!

God, I hope we can at least also take back the Senate when Kerry wins in November. That man means to shake up the smug corporate scoundrels, seriously get started with universal health care, and keep our environment clean and safe! But, he's got to have support to pull it all off.

[BootinUp]

76. Where ya been saywhat?

[MoonRiver]

89. Really busy today. I have a work load out the wazzoo right now.

It won't get much better until June. :cry: But then I'm going PART-TIME!!! :bounce:

[robbedvoter]

77. he learned direct answers

[maddezmom]

84. hey saywhat

good to see ya. :toast:

[MoonRiver]

Thanks!

Good to see you, maddezmom, Jim, and all my other Clarkie (can we say that now?) pals! :grouphug:

[BootinUp]

115. Hell ya!

:grouphug:

[TheDonkey]

98. He had a great response to Free Trade: No one is enforcing

the rules!

We need a president!

[youngred]

79. Edwards: I voted against the Chilly-an Agreement

;-)

While listing all the votes he has against Free Trade, in extended attack on Kerry.

[minkyboodle]

80. Final Straw

I have watched every minute of every debate but that last exchange on health care just broke my will. DK and Sharpton differ fundamentally from JE and JK (no matter who you agree with you must accept the differences). Dennis had to fight like a pit bull to get any time and he was just called a socialist and then cut off and had the subject changed completely. I thought these mods were so obsessed with candidates differentiating... my ass. That was disgusting. I'm pretty depressed right now.
Scott

[shoopnyc123]

88. Hang in there Scott...

...this is total garbage, but it's all we have right now...hang in!

[minkyboodle]

131. thanks for the kind words

but I'm sorry i can't help but be down right now.
Scott

[BootinUp]

90. Its going to be a while till

America is ready for Universal Healthcare. Clinton nearly lost his second term over it. We need to work towards it though.

[robsul82]

Is that why Clinton stomped Bob Dole's guts in?

If the Clinton victory over Bob Dole was "barely," give me another "barely" win in November.

Later.

RJS

[youngred]

102. Be more accurate to say lost the congress over

in 94

[BootinUp]

110. right

[BootinUp]

Go easy! I'm getting older...OK I remember

We lost the congress due to that whole mess.

[Mairead]

129. *EVERY* poll says America has been ready for it for decades

Stop please with the 'we're not ready' shtick, okay? The insurance companies aren't ready for it, but the people are and have been since a long time now!

[BootinUp]

130. better take back congress first...

Look I'm not against it.

[SangamonTaylor]

81. Edwards saw his father's mill close

gotta love the son of a mill worker

[youngred]

94. or a man who spent part of his childhood living out of a car

because his family couldn't afford a home.

[SangamonTaylor]

105. i agree

Kucinich and Edwards pretty much are saying the same thing about nafta/wto

Dennis says 'withdraw' from our agreements

John says renegotiate our agreements

In substance though, they are both fighting for fair (not just free) trade agreements that are actually enforceable.

[youngred]

112. absolutely

Something that I very much respect about him and one of my favourite of his positions

[MoonRiver]

100. But the mantra is really getting old.

It sounds incredibly scripted, and just a little bit desperate, now.

[SayitAintSo]

83. Why does Kerry look like he has gas .... ?

Especailly while Edwards is talking .... the body language is interesting ....

[turnhardleft]

91. His eyebrows don't move anymore

Is that a side effect of botox?

[SayitAintSo]

103. Don't know but - I do think they have been plucked ....

SUMPTHIN's changed .... :)

[robsul82]

104. Ewww....they don't move, do they?

That's friggin' creepy.

Later.

RJS

[revcarol]

95. Kerry is always supercilious.

Look he gave DK, like "ain't he cute." UGH

[Catherine Vincent]

125. They have the guys sitting too close together.

If I were one of them, I would choose the end. I need my space.

[youngred]

85. Al and Dennis want to talk, but we'll let Kerry reply first

because he looks shocked

WTF?

[maddezmom]

92. moderators?

they have lost control. :) Al's up now.......

[eaprez]

86. Not a Kerry fan...

...BUT he is looking very 'presidential" in the debate. I have been impressed by his performance tonight. Although I will not vote for him in the primary I will be able to support him if he's the eventual nominee.

[onehandle]

87. What's that sound?

An odd sound kind of like a sneeze when they switch cameras.

[berner59]

106. Kerry reminds me...

of how Clinton listens to a question... He nods his head like "I got it and I've got an answer..." Boy - you feel he's got a good answer for everything and I like his answers...

Go Kerry!!!

[Imajika]

96. Edwards is good..

I really think he would be a tougher opponent for Bush.

Edwards connects with people better I think.

Don't get me wrong, Kerry is doing fine, but I think Edwards has more charisma.

Imajika

[SayitAintSo]

107. I with you .... Edwards has "IT"

as far as I'm concerned ....

[robbedvoter]

97. Sharpton agenda: get delegates. Take note, Clarkies

[youngred]

99. Kucinich pushing Anti-Nafta/Wto rhetoric

getting cut off by king again and again and again

[revcarol]

Guess King doesn't care about jobs....

Hey King you, too, can be outsourced. Sorry, but cutting off DK

[youngred]

117. Guess he doesn't care about fairness

[theoceansnerves]

101. king interrupting AGAIN

so what, kerry and Edwards get unlimited time, Sharpton and DK limited to 45 seconds?

[Rainbowreflect]

109. Yes!!

Cannot allow those commie, pinko, socialist ideas out for the American people to get all rilled up about.

[robsul82]

111. Edwards gets cut off too.

Kerry's allowed unlimited time.

Later.

RJS

[theoceansnerves]

116. you're right

they're joking it up and palling around with kerry.

[corporatewhore]

108. couldnt you just imangine the celebration in the streets

The day DK gets us the fuck outta nafta

[Thrill]

114. JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK

JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK JFK

[BootinUp]

113. I'll get flamed but Edwards is just not Presidential enough

[SayitAintSo]

119. This is Flame .....

:)

[BootinUp]

120. LOL! n/t

[SayitAintSo]

122. Actually my heart pines for Wesley ....

Still not over it ...

[BootinUp]

123. You've been so quiet

I didn't remember you were a Clarkie.

:pals:

[SayitAintSo]

126. Don't post all that much.... Lurk mostly ...

Was with the Draft Movement - Broke my heart when he dropped out ...

Oh well ...

[Renew Deal]

121. I am thinking that.

I don't think he's ready.

[maddezmom]

118. Al is in love with Mrs Kerry

:)

[Blue_Roses]

124. what's up with Ron Brownstein?

Is he working to be a complete dick tonight?