Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hillary Will Get the Nomination

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 11:48 AM
Original message
Hillary Will Get the Nomination
I came into the past week on DU essentially undecided, and not particularly caring who won the Dem nod. All the viable candidates (indeed, all the candidates) are far to the right of my own positions, but this is something I had to get used to through my 20's (when I refused to vote at all), and that I've come to terms with. I vote for the Democrat to avoid disaster and catastrophe. But I've never identified with either the person or the policies of Democratic candidates. And I lean Obama. I would like to see him win, I think, but if Senator Clinton wins, I will be just as satisfied.

And at this point, it's a simple numbers game at this point: the Clinton/Democratic machine is well entrenched, and has the ability to run a 50 state campaign. Obama's effort will be valiant, but it will be essentially over by this time next month. I should qualify: I do not mean "machine" in a bad way. Having deeply organized political entities is not wrong or bad. It is what it is. At this point, it is near impossible to overcome.

I know that the Hillary Clinton supporters on this board consider themselves and their candidate the victims of vicious attacks, and that is, in my view, largely accurate. The childish defense of "You should have seen them last year" wouldn't pass muster in your average kindergarten; that adults should invoke such nonsense is the height of absurdity. Some of the Clinton supporters, however, are also purveyors of vicious and incredible smears. There is certainly call to examine Obama's record with respect to LGBT issues, but many of the charges have been dishonest and beyond all measure. They've been unjust. The issue of "style v. substance" is also a legitimate concern. There, too, some Clinton supporters on this board have been so overboard as to become ridiculous, and often far worse than ridiculous, given the grisly and disabling history of the "style v. substance" charge in America. There has been out-and-out racism, as well, however much supporters have cried "political correctness" and "you're reading into it too much" as your standard right wing defenses against unconscionable behavior. It's heart-breaking.

And I don't agree that the vicious attacks from either side are "just politics." No. They are a loss of ethical compass, a complete lack of self-awareness and basic human decency. If that's "politics," you can have it. I don't presume that I can return anybody to decency. If I get any responses at all to this, I suspect fully half will consist of defending the need for such indecency, or various justifications already aired ad nauseam on these boards. But we are going to have to figure out what to do with the results.

What I have seen here from both sides has often pushed me to frustration and anger, even disgust. Where I manifested that, I apologize. The self-righteous and utterly convinced blindness on all sides is, at the end, terrifying. And a sad spectacle. And so now I know that the arguments put forth by the Clinton side will win the day, but it feels dirty as hell, and I've lost respect for many DU posters as a result of their behavior. Clinton will win, but there will be a stink on it, at least for me. I know. I'm insignificant. You don't need to tell me.

But at some point, we're going to have to figure out what to do with that stink. It may be too strong for air-freshener.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Anouka Donating Member (712 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. what, no one wants to comment on this
because it's 'a pox on both their houses'?

i don't agree with everything you've said, but you get a kick and recommend from me just because there are worse threads getting more action than your truce.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. Well said...
Many truths here. I hope it's widely read.

k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Arriana used to be one of my favorite people because she was
a strait shooter. I never thought I would see Ariana lose her
objectivity and go into a swoon over anyone. She is going to
be up there with Chris Matthews pretty soon.

No, Arriana has never been a fan of the Clintons. What is happening
now is so obvious it begs credibilty.

Get the Vapors--Save Huffington Post and get them back on
being a place to be trusted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. If you're right, then
we'll have a Republican POTUS in 2009.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary vs. Bloomberg, Nader and McCain. 2008 is going to be awesome
for Republicans. Excuse me while I do everything I can to stop the Hillary coronation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. You could be right.
I think it could be Hillary/Bloomberg versus McCain.

BTW I am an Edwards supporter.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. You're not too far off the mark.
Let me add Cynthia McKinney to the mix as well. She might challenge Nader for the Green Party nomination, unless Nader goes on his own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Nader will probalby go on his own, like last time
there's a lot of Greens who are very pissed off at Nader, and he has little support among members of the Green Party USA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
6. There will be a stink on it
no matter who the victor is. Thats the price of a longer more competitive primary I guess. When the candidates below Hillary started the personal integrity attack on her in Philadelphia and brought her campaign back to earth the path was set.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I think the stink is one way; what are you talking about? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. amazing nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Educate me. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Sorry I don't feel like playing
right now.

Why don't you talk to the OP, or google up the NYT story on the MSNBC Philadelphia debate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. I think it's "just politics," 21st-century style
Self-righteousness, willful ignorance, and bullshit so ridiculous a five-year-old wouldn't buy it are all rewarded behaviors in this toxic media climate.

Excellent, thoughtful post. Cheers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. All I got to say is: from your lips to God's ears!!!
I honestly think that she would be a terrific president.

My ideal situation would be Hillary now, Obama later on.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mother Of Four Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. NO ONE is insignifigant....
Edited on Fri Jan-11-08 12:34 PM by Mother Of Four
"Clinton will win, but there will be a stink on it, at least for me. I know. I'm insignificant. You don't need to tell me."


Never think of yourself as insignifigant.

One person can change so many things...you don't think these people are super human do you?

People have LONG memories, no matter what the media wants you to believe. Not too long after September 11, someone else was talking about Unity the same way Obama is. You can take this for what it's worth, because I support Edwards. I just can't STAND for someone to spin 'Any way the wind blows'

Guess who said the following,

(QUOTE)


"Hey, we like our differences. We like who we are. We like the color of our skin, the way we pursue our faith. We like what's about us that's different. We like our little boxes. We all have to have them to navigate reality." You laughed when I said, CAL and Stanford, you gave me a good reception because I was a Stanford parent, right? It gives you a way to organize things. But the older you get, somebody's a scientist, another person's an economist. Somebody's a Democratic, somebody else is a Republican. Somebody's Asian, somebody else is something else. But in the end, most people figure out that these boxes with which we navigate reality, as important as they are, are not as important as our common humanity. And if we don't figure it out, then a whole lot of experience is denied us and a whole lot of wisdom never comes into our spirits.

That's really what's going on here, folks. The world has never truly had to develop an ethic if interdependence rooted in our common humanity and if we do it, the 21st Century will be the most interesting, exciting, peaceful era in history. If we don't, we'll spend a lot of time playing catch up and trying to punish people and get them to atone for travesties like September the 11th.

So I will say again, I support the current effort against terrorism. We need more of it. We need to increase our effectiveness and then we'll get better at it. And no terrorist campaign in history, by the way, has ever succeeded and this one won't either, unless we let it change us. But if you want the world that I think you want, you have to both be very vigilant and disciplined and tough in people that have already set themselves beyond to pale of the world you're trying to build. And then you have to go about trying to build a world where you spread the benefits and strengthen burdens, where you help people who aren't very good at solving their own problems yet, get better at it and understand that they have to accommodate human rights and openness. And you have to basically tell people, "Look, we respect you're differences. We'll celebrate them, but only if you acknowledge that our common humanity is more important." Not very complicated, but that's what I think will determine the whole shape of this new era.

(END QUOTE)


Speech: Remarks as Delivered at University of California, Berkeley
January 29, 2002
Berkeley, California

William Jefferson Clinton
This speech btw, is from his OWN web site for the Clinton Foundation.


Yet, the Clintons (You can't speak of one without the other...the "Two for one" thing they have going on) want to attack anyone who doesn't agree with them (Democratic) and fend off the "Vast right wing conspiracy"?

Crow, table for two.


(Edited to add link to the post http://www.clintonfoundation.org/012902-nr-sp-cf-ld-rr-ac-gl-usa-zaf-rwa-bih-sp-wjc-addresses-students-at-cal-berkeley.htm )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great, great thread. K&R and a thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
12. God, I hope not. We don't need another Republican President.
And if Hillary is nominated, that's what we'll get. She's unelectable. The GOP is praying she gets the nom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. You seem to like that old line a lot.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Barack_America Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I believe it absolutely, yes.
I've said it before, I don't dislike Hillary, I just don't believe she's electable. My first priority is a Democrat in the White House and I don't feel that Hillary will make it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R!
Although I am not ready to announce a victory for anyone.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carrieyazel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. And she'll have huge obstacles getting elected. Many critical flaws as a national candidate.
1. Half of the electorate will not vote for her from the get-go.
2. Doesn't have the appeal among independents, and most moderate Repubes will go to McCain
3. Doesn't have the political skills that are needed to win. Needs Bill for that.
4. Doesn't have the national appeal beyond the Democratic base states to win in the electoral college.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
21. A sad spectacle is certainly is
I hope you turn out to be wrong. But thank you for setting this down for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R You summed up my thougths pretty well
In 6 months we will wonder why all gnashing of teeth went on and will be worrying about saving the country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
23. Politics is a dirty game
After Obama realized he had a huge lead in NH, he stopped taking questions from the audience, I think both Obama and Clinton are playing dirty politics. I think Clinton is a safer choice, but I am not under any illusion that “its all about the people” for Clinton nor am I under the illusion that “it’s all about hopes” for Obama, I think the politically wise choice is Clinton, you can’t expect real changes just by voting for a different candidate, it’s never that easy nor should it be. Obama is “false hope.” Clinton is not change either, but she is the only one who can win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-11-08 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
25. We'll see. I was worried Democrats were scared
to go against the Clinton's. Which is why I thought Barack just wouldn't be able to beat the establishment. But the last few days have shown, that elected officials are beginning to get behind him and fight for him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 17th 2024, 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC