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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:13 AM
Original message
So Obama is preaching all the time how he's going to unite Red America with Blue America
That's very nice, but can someone please tell us exactly how he's going to go about accomplishing this?

Details please......and, btw, gathering Red and Blue citizens around a campfire and singing Kumbaya together just won't work...We need to hear specifics on how he's going to achieve this miracle.

Anyone care to elaborate with specifics?
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. UMM.. bush promised to be the great UNITER also.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Again, so we want someone who divides? Man, the desperation is thick here today.
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 11:20 AM by Dawgs
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I see you don't have any specifics on how Obama is going to accomplish this miracle he speaks of
You didn't give any here, nor in your other post.
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. Only way for lion & lamb to lie down together is if lion gets weaker/lamb gets stronger.

Lambs who approach lions to work together, get mauled and devoured.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
64. Apparently, division is now a progressive value.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. I thought that's what Nancy Pelosi is trying in Congress.n/t
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. The last time we had a "Uniter and not a divider" look how it turned out.
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. So you want us to support Hillary because she's a divider?
Wow!!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. another post where you failed to give any specifics on how Obama will achieve this miracle
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. Kumbaya my Lord, kumbaya...
...Oh Lord, kumbaya ...
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #3
36. tell us, was Bush really interested in uniting people?
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #36
49. Yes-If They Did What He Wanted
~
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #36
102. no, so why should we want to compromise with the republicans at a time
when we can beat them?
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. simple
Obama is magical.

Everyone who speaks to Obama is instantly transformed and then everyone will just get along.
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. And then we can all sit in a field of daisies and hope for good things to happen.
I believe!!!
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Lift me up!
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. lol nt
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SIMPLYB1980 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
35. I "hope" you are correct.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. Like this?
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. He's already doing it.
Republicans like him for his message. It's that simple.

A good, intelligent, liberal Democrat is attractive to minoriites, youth, independants, and some Republicans and many here want to tear him down for it. It's really embarrassing.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. I asked for specifics on how he's gonna unite red and blue, not how he's going to get elected. nt
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
52. Please give examples of the GOP supporting Obama
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 12:32 PM by niceypoo
The Dems have fallen for this delusional line many times, and every time they get burned by the GOP. Yeah, republicans just love a "good, intellegent, LIBERAL DEMOCRAT," as we have seen so many times in the past. Would this group of liberal Democrat loving republicans be the sister organization of "Liberals for Bush"?

Apparently Obama supporters forget what republicans did to African American voters in Florida and Ohio.
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. NOT if I have anything to do with it.
I will never unite with fascists. Never.

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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
80. agree
"I will never unite with fascists. Never."
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
12. He's doing it; look at how the Independents turned out in Iowa; lots of
them voted rethug previously, I'll wager. And see anecdotal stories on DU, like this one:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Support for a candidate from Independents is not even close to answering the question
I asked for specifics on how Obama is going to accomplish the amazing feat of uniting red and blue American after he's in office, not how some Independents are going to support him for one reason or another.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. It's all in the message; he's the prince of Peace! nt
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. lol
OK, I deserve that one :toast:
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
84. ROFL
That was funny, a good laugh trying
to imagine Obama in long hair, with a
beard, wearing a peace robe.
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. They turned out for Bush the Uniter also. We need to stop avoiding conflict. nt
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
76. "We need to stop avoiding conflict." AMEN!
Kinda scary all this kneejerking avoidance of conflict... it kind of has to happen before any progress can be made, I think.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
82. Appealing to the right..
.. to get votes is not the same as
getting them to go along with measures,
views, and policies that will help
America and Americans pull out of the
current corporofascist and religionist
nightmare.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well, a good start would be not to talk down to those that disagree with you
Which is exactly what he is doing.

Comparing his approach to what Bush did is simply silly. When Bush was running on this uniter/not divider thing no Democrats (at least no one that I personally know) believed it for a second. I sure know that I didn't. And I'm pretty sure not a whole lot of Democrats voted for him otherwise the race wouldn't have been so close that it could be stolen.

However, many Republicans that I know are genuinely showing an interest in Obama.

So, from I am seeing, Obama is starting to actually unite Red and Blue America, whereas Bush did no such thing.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. No president talks down to the voters when they're running, not even Bush
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 11:30 AM by mtnsnake
He preached the same damn thing as what Obama is preaching now as far as being a uniter.

Specifics, please, on how Obama is going to unite the neocons with liberals.
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parasim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
32. Well, he sure seemed to talk down to me...
I cringed whenever I heard him say i'm a uniter not a divider. Even the more centrist Democrats that I know never bought into his rhetoric. Perhaps it was because he was Poppy's son, I don't know, but I knew no Democrat that even considered voting for him.

As for uniting the neocons with liberals, I am certainly not in favor of that. But, see, I don't see the average Republican voter as a neocon. The neocons are the idiots that they were duped into voting for.

I will admit, though, that I don't know specifically how Obama will deal with the neocons in office if he is elected. (I don't believe he is a neocon. Please enlighten me if you have evidence that he is a neocon and I will certainly consider it.)

For the record, I am yet undecided who i am going to vote for. I am a staunch Kucinich supporter and like Gravel. Of the top three, I am going back and forth between Edwards and Obama. But I still need to dig in a bit deeper to answer some of these questions for myself.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
88. You don't get it.
You said: "
So, from I am seeing, Obama is starting to actually unite Red and Blue America, whereas Bush did no such thing."

Any such uniting will absolutely sound the death knell to any sort of possibility for undoing the damage done by Bushinc. The Reds already control the agenda of American politics and the economy.. both huge inhuman and thoughtless failures. Blues are not really all that blue anymore, and any further movement to the right would be just saying that we give up..
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
104. I don't believe it from Obama, either.
I think it's naive.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. moderate federal judges. nt.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. win the soul by discourse?
Quintilian (95 CE)
I cannot imagine how the founders of cities would have made a homeless multitude come together to form a people, had they not moved them by their skilful speech, or how legislators would have succeeded in restraining mankind in the servitude of the law had they not had the highest gifts of oratory. The very guiding principles of life, however intrinsically honourable they are, nevertheless possess more power to shape mens minds when the brilliance of eloquence illumines the beauty of the subject. And so, although the weapons of eloquence are powerful for good or ill, it is unfair to count as evil something which it is possible to use for good.
Source: Quintilian, The Orators Education. Ed. and trans. Donald A. Russell. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 2001. II.xvi.9-10


Ralph Waldo Emerson (1837)
The poet, in utter solitude remembering his spontaneous thoughts and recording them, is found to have recorded that which men in crowded cities find true for them also. The orator distrusts at first the fitness of his frank confessions,his want of knowledge of the persons he addresses,until he finds that he is the complement of his hearers; that they drink his words because he fulfils for them their own nature; the deeper he dives into his privatest, secretest presentiment, to his wonder he finds this is the most acceptable, most public, and universally true. The people delight in it; the better part of every man feels, This is my music; this is myself.
Source: Ralph Waldo Emerson, The American Scholar. Nature, Addresses, and Lectures. Cambridge, MA: Belknap, 1971. Vol. 1 of The Collected Works of Ralph Waldo Emerson. Ed. Joseph Slater, et al. 6 vols. to date. 1971-. 63.
http://www.u.arizona.edu/%7Etkinney/pdf/handouts/defini ...


Cicero (46 BCE)
The supreme orator, then, is the one whose speech instructs, delights, and moves the minds of his audience. The orator is in duty bound to instruct; giving pleasure is a free gift to the audience, to move them is indispensable.
Source: Cicero, De optimo genere oratorum. Trans. H. M. Hubbell. De inventione/De optimo genere oratorum/Topica. Cambridge: Harvard UP, 1949. 1.3-4.
Plato: Rhetoric is "the art of winning the soul by discourse."
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. no way. i will give no quarter to a republican. they are the cause of this mess.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. Same here. Just the same, I'd like to hear specifics of how Obama is gonna unite neocons w/liberals
Is he gonna flash a magic wand or rub Aladdin's lamp?
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
42. If you sincerly believe this- if you 'hold no quarter'
with those who you see as your political enemy- then you have no hope-

And you are no less dangerous than bush- because if you can't imagine some kind of unity- some kind of commonality- you are advocating the same kind of tyranical bullshit that we've been suffocating under for the last 8yrs.

It can't be "my way or the highway"--

What will you do with those you percive to be your enemies???- Those who live next door to you? Those who may even be your relatives?

:shrug:

please tell me I'm wrong-
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Maybe I was exagerrating on holding no quarter, but so far nobody is giving any specifics
on how Obama plans to achieve this miracle of uniting red Americans with blue Ameircans. It's lovely to hear, but until he says how, it's just a ploy to win over Independents.

Of course I agree with you on what you're saying about trying to get together with people who don't like the same ideals we do....but only to the extent that we don't compromise our own ideals in the process. Aside from that, you would have to admit that Obama has not told us how he's going to unite the two sides, other than just talking about it.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #44
57. being willing
to reach out to "them" is a pretty good start-

How many of the candidates are actually doing this?-

His message has been pretty consistent about ONE America- focusing on the things that unite us as individual people- not on the ways that we disagree, or on why others are inferior to 'us'.

That is a really good start in my own opinion. I'm sick to DEATH of the arrogance that has consumed us since the the bush empire took over- which actually began with the impeachment hypocrisy-

If we have to start with the very basics- then lets start there. Compromise is essential to life. But I agree with you that there are certain fundamental issues which I won't surrender without a struggle. Unless we are willing to engage each other, we will never make any progress. Obama is encouraging discussion. That's something- even if it isn't what you'd like to see.


If we can't talk to each other there is NO hope of anything except more of the same.

and i for one can't survive much more of this. Can you?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #57
60. Don't get me wrong. I love the message
I would have more confidence in it, though, if he gave us details on how we're going to get together. So far the details have not surfaced, but the message all sounds good, yes it does.

I totally agree with your sentiment, btw, and appreciate your posts.
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. the only way to bring repugs along is to drag them in kicking & screaming.
they either go along with the program & what's good for EVERYONE or they are left behind. same my way or the highway mentality. karma is a bitch & no way could you not expect to get what you deserve.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. just another
variation of hell if you ask me-

the yin to their yang?

Is there no better way? do we always have to RE-act to others?

How about a 'different' way?

Karma might be a bitch, but i don't have to be one. I can choose to move out of the old tired ways of operating if I really try- can't I?

If not, what is the point of even trying?

seriously.

?
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. go for it. a lot will not go along with it, including me.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #59
81. What different way do you propose?
This rhetoric all sounds very nice... but please explain how this would help to solve a real-world problem... like, say, the bill that offerred immunity to Telecoms for breaking the law?

How do you unite with the other side and end up not sanctioning crime?
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #81
105. Thank you. This is the question Obama has not answered. nt
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #21
40. so your plan is to eradicate them? round them up into camps? magically make them disappear?
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 11:59 AM by cryingshame
what?

Just because YOU lack the imagination and resolve necessary to hopefully enlighten some Americans who probably agree with the Progressive agenda but have been bamboozled by manipulative propaganda from the Right doesn't mean our leadership should be.

And as for elected GOP'ers, a great many do want to veer from the hard- right but have gotten beaten down by BFEE 'mafia'.
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. i didn't say that. you just did.
i said no negotiating with a republican. they had their 8 years and in return WE had 8 years of hell. no, no negotiating with republicans. they are terrorists.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. Barack "Pie in the Sky" Obama. At least it's better than "Hussein".
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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
27. There was a great profile in The New Yorker from early 2007
Addressing this very issue.

It's a little lengthy, but it's well worth the read (assuming your question was legitimate).

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/05/07/070507fa_...

"There are three things that Democratic political candidates tend to do when talking with constituents: they display an impressive grasp of the minutiae of their constituents problems, particularly money problems; they rouse indignation by explaining how those problems are caused by powerful groups getting rich on the backs of ordinary people; and they present well-worked-out policy proposals that, if passed, would solve the problems and put the powerful groups in their place. Obama seldom does any of these things. He tends to underplay his knowledge, acting less informed than he is. He rarely accuses, preferring to talk about problems in the passive voice, as things that are amiss with us rather than as wrongs that have been perpetrated by them. And the solutions he offers generally sound small and local rather than deep-reaching and systemic."

"Obamas voting record is one of the most liberal in the Senate, but he has always appealed to Republicans, perhaps because he speaks about liberal goals in conservative language. When he talks about poverty, he tends not to talk about gorging plutocrats and unjust tax breaks; he says that we are our brothers keeper, that caring for the poor is one of our traditions. Asked whether he has changed his mind about anything in the past twenty years, he says, Im probably more humble now about the speed with which government programs can solve every problem. For example, I think the impact of parents and communities is at least as significant as the amount of money thats put into education. Obama encourages his crossover appeal. He doesnt often criticize the Bush Administration directly; in New Hampshire recently, he told his audience, Im a Democrat. Im considered a progressive Democrat. But if a Republican or a Conservative or a libertarian or a free-marketer has a better idea, I am happy to steal ideas from anybody and in that sense Im agnostic. The number of conservatives whove called meroommates of mine, relatives who are Republicanswhove said, Hes the one Democrat I could support, not because he agrees with me, because he doesnt, but because I at least think hell take my point of view into account, Michael Froman, a law-school friend who worked in the Clinton Administration and is now involved in Obamas campaign, says. Thats a big thing, mainstream Americans feeling like Northeast liberals look down on them."
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. Yup, this is nothing but rhetoric, idealism, but no specifics on how he's gonna unite the two sides
other than trying to appeal to conservatives and Republicans with inspiring speeches. Frankly, I don't want someone who's going to be so appealing to the enemy just because of empty rhetoric. Nor do I want our Democratic president meeting in the middle with conservatives, when they're the reason we've become so divided to begin with. What Obama is promising is a dream because he hasn't backed it up with the details of how he's going to make it happen.
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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Wow, you read the entire 12 page article in 8 minutes?
I figured your original post was flamebait.

Wonder why I even bothered tracking that down to post it...

Welcome to ignore.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. No, I read your post which highlighted nothing but empty rhetoric and dreams
I didn't ask for lessons in idealism, I asked you to lay down specifics, ANY, and you failed to do that. If there are any specifics in your 12 page article, lay a few of them down here.

I figured your original post was flamebait.

Wonder why I even bothered tracking that down to post it...

Welcome to ignore.


That's the typical copout de jour of someone who can't prove their point. Now run along and bury your head in the sand if you rather.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
31. He will start by ending all investigations into Bush regime crimes.
Anyone in the junta who might get indicted will be pardoned by President Obama. He will show his good faith toward the right-wing by making many, broad concessions to them. They of course will view all these things as signs of weakness, but, no matter. The only thing that is important is that we become one big happy country where progressives know their place and the Corporation is king!

Obama cannot bring the left and right together if he investigates and prosecutes the neocon criminals - so that is right out. This is why all of the talk about "uniting" the country is just code for "bend over, here it comes again"...
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. Because Americans WANT Health Care, Energy Refom and Iraq Exit
What Obama brings is an ability to bring people above the petty "us vs. them" politics that entrenched the conservative movement and squandered the unity we had following 9/11. He can take us out of the old, unnecessary poltical wars of the past decades.
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maddiejoan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #34
38. How?
with his magic wand?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. another post that fails to give any specifics on how Obama will achieve this miracle of uniting
Red and Blue America. All you really did was talk about the same idealistic views that many of our candidates have talked about, too, without spelling out the details of how he's going to get neocons of this country to side with liberals.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. It is all talk
It wont happen. The opposite will happen. Obama and his supporters are in a fantasy world. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over always expecting a different result. Republicans don't do unity, they do bigotry. Republicans laugh at 'unity' because this ongoing DLC delusion keeps them in power. The present congress is a good example of Democrats trying to sing kumbaya with the republicans.
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. I don't see anything petty about war. Obama has voted to fund it in 2007. I don't see
anything petty about the Patriot Act trouncing our Bill of Rights. Obama voted to extend it.

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
37. well, I've heard of several republic's who have
pleged to vote for him- he has a following that doesn't stop at our political boundry.

His message isn't one that seeks to marginalize America even more. The more we emphasize our divisions and dig our heels in refusing to look for ways in which we can come together and find common ground as a STARTING point- as a ...."united" states- of America, the more we ensure a future that is just more of the same.

Obama more than any other candidate today- expounds on looking at- focusing on, what binds people together- and working from there rather than banging the drums that pound away about our divisions.

bush claimed to be a uniter,... his way of uniting people was to kill those who weren't with him- to make those who wouldn't be intimidated by his agenda into enemies. His vow to not negotiate with people who stood opposed to him should have made him a laughing-stock as a leader- but instead he was allowed to become a tyrant- which he continues to be even now.

We will never have a better tomorrow if we aren't willing to attempt to find common ground and work to begin building on that.

Maybe this sounds like "just singing Kumbaya-" But where the hell else are we going to start???- If we really want to find a better way forward for this nation, to be able to hold out hope that our impact on the world can become a positive one again, rather than that of a bully- ... we have to start with ourselves. If we can't come together somewhere then we are doomed to continue on this selfish, cruel, destructive suicidal path.

"Imagine all the people living life in peace????"


Obama seems to be offering the most genuine attempt to bring us together that I can see- he isn't perfect- he isn't my idol- he is a human being who presents a perspective that I am coming to believe includes the tools necessiary to build the best way forward- for everyone, at this time- for this world.

time will tell
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Obama is delusional
and so are those who actually believe that republicans will embrace him and sing kumbaya with them. How many times have democrats made this mistake in the past? Obama is in for a rude awakening.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. "Obama is in for a rude awakening."
Obama is delusional and so are those who actually believe that republicans will embrace him and sing kumbaya with them. How many times have democrats made this mistake in the past? Obama is in for a rude awakening.


If he can't provide details of how he's going to unite neocons with liberals, then it's not just him who's in for a rude awakening, it'll be his supporters who get a rude awakening, too, because this unity thing just won't happen if he doesn't have a detailed plan. Good post, niceypoo
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #51
56. and your solution to what
is the death of 'america' is what exactly?

Do you honestly believe there is ANY candidate who offers us any guaranteed positive results?

I don't like to turn the tables on you with this question but you are asking for something from Obama that you aren't asking for from the other options we have- and they are no more capabile of fulfilling their 'agenda's.

My personal favorite candidate would be Dennis Kuchinich- I strongly believe that what he advocates would be the best for every citizen in the US- and improve our impact on the planet. I don't believe there is a chance his plan would work- because we have to find some way to communicate with each other before we can move in any positive direction.

Who do you suggest we embrace as a leader and why?

Clearly it isn't Obama- who do YOU support? Why should I consider what you believe as well?



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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. A basic grasp on reality is a good place to start
Rhetoric about unity and togetherness with a pack of rabid, bigoted hyenas is nothing more than that. I, personally, see no reason to embrace someone who is delusional. Until Obama gives us more than empty rhetorical fluff about "hope" and "unity" I will look elsewhere.

Of course, if he is the nominee, I will support him and I do believe that he, eventually once reality sinks in, be a good president. If he does get the nod from Democrats, the republicans will turn into a pack of rabid, warped animals (much more so than they already are.) Mark my words.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. do you
really see the world like this?

If so, what keeps you going?

If I didn't harbor a genuine speck of hope that some day- (maybe very far in the future) we will live in a much different- much more equitable, compassionate, healthy society than we do now, i'd have to quit.

Most people lead lives of quiet desperation. - but hope is essential -

as essential as oxygen and water.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
66. "I don't like to turn the tables on you"
That's exactly what you've done, but no problem. I already told you upthread I agree with your basic sentiments. I don't know of too many people who wouldn't, but what I asked for is specifics. Hearing Obama give wonderful speeches is inspiring, it's the kind of stuff we dream about, but if he can't give the details of how he's going to unite red with blue or neocons with liberals, then that's all it is....is a dream.

My personal favorite candidate would be Dennis Kuchinich

Mine is as well. He has been my number one favorite throughout, although I spend so much time defending Hillary that many people think she's all I care about. Kucinich speaks to my heart.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
72. thanks, and
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 01:28 PM by Bluerthanblue
I believe we're more in agreement than either of us realize.

I understand your concern. I can't answer it in a way that will satisfy, but if even if I could, it would only be 'words'.

Here's to hope -

Change happens even when we don't want it to- growth/improvment/progress is something we can help create. I want to be a part of that- better to die trying than sitting around waiting for the 'sure thing' to come along? (lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness sort of thinking)

peace- and thanks for your kind words, and patient answers.

blu

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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #51
106. His supporters and all Dems.
We'll pay for this naive crap if he's elected.
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TooBigaTent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. I do not think he is delusional - I think he is a politician who is saying what
his advisors says he needs to say to get elected.

What he will actually do is sell out the Democratic wing of the party and totally sell-out to the DLC and repugs.

Just as we are told to shut up and vote for the "D" no matter what they say they stand for, if BO does win the White House, liberals will not be welcome. In the name of national unity, etc., the obscenities of the last seven years will be considered passt history and never to be discussed again.
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
61. I agree that the "unity" tack is pure DLC
The Dem congress are taking the unity tack, how is that going by the way? How many filibusters have the republicans used in the last year? Republicans dont do unity.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
53. He will attract the Reds by continuing to throw the Democrats under the Bus
He's well on his way to doing that already.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
54. What I think: Compromise.
I think he was a compromiser in Illinois, which worked. I don't think Illinois Republicans are completely nuts though -- it's kind of like Bush working with Texas Democrats.

But in the federal government? It'd work for unity and getting things done, but I don't think it'd create the big BIG changes people are hoping for. Clinton compromised and people are still pissed about it.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
62. Judging by what he's done to DU I find it unlikly
he seems extremely divisive...
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #62
65. He aint done shit to DU, DU did it to itself
Don't blame Obama for DU's circular firing squad.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. I can't believe that DU is the only divide..
How will this be healed?
I have seen some pretty personal stuff here that is bound to create difficulty in uniting later on..
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. Is it his fault? Tell me how he is dividing us and someone like Hillary is not.
:kick:
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. I agree completely
A core of Obama's supporters here have turned the DU into a sewer. They lie, they smear, they attack the children of other candidates, they use swiftboat tactics. They endlessly start useless, divisive, stinkbomb threads. They embrace republican talking points of the 90s and attack Bill Clinton as some sort of scumbag (along with Chelsea) because they are obsessed with his wife. They smear and personally attack other people who post here and they gladly ally themselves with the lurking freepers. They are extremely hypersensitive to the slightest criticism, meanwhile spewing venom at anyone who disagrees with them in the least.

Obama the candidate would eventually be a good president but a lot of people here who support him act like animals.
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KennedyGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. It is amazing that many can't see this..
stars in their eyes I guess..
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
68.  Obama will use his magic...barring that he'll keep wishin' N hopin' N prayin'...
because he has no specific plans. It's a sham. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. :evilgrin:

:kick: and recommend
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
74. I'm curious to know the answer, too.
Thanks for asking the question...
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
75. How is this different than John Edwards' rhetoric?
Especially what he was saying back in '04? :shrug:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
77. Obama is gonna get our asses out to the ballot box and
he will propose legislation via mandate. Washington "do fucked up shit and never listens to voters....like when our asses were out marching to stop a war" DC will be scared shitless for their jobs and they will do as their constituents demand. That's how.

It is actually a simple proposition as this was how this democracy was designed to work. Only someone clueless would not understand this.

Some would rather call for a revolution that won't be televised....as though that is a real way to accomplish anything; via "fighting" whatever that fucking means. :shrug:

Maybe if Prez Clinton would have kept his you know what in his pants, George Bush wouldn't have been able to steal the Presidency from Al Gore. But since he couldn't do that, we ended up paying. Personally, I'm tired of Clinton and I don't believe that "Fighting" which is Edwards message means anything because he doesn't explain what that entails. I don't see him getting his boxing gloves out, that's for sure. :eyes:
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
78. Do you want to be united with Red America?
I just can't imagine the possibility.

This country is already so far right
that I can't be united with much of
anyone. It just can't happen... not
if I want to retain my humanity.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #78
83. Exactly. Sanity *demands* we not move even one inch further rightward. (nt)
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #78
85. Red America can kiss my ass. I want to beat them, not embrace them
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 01:58 PM by mtnsnake
My only point is that it seems lots of people are enamored with Obama's message to unite Red American and Blue America, yet Obama hasn't laid down the specifics of how he's going to achieve this miracle. If he's gonna win over voters by claiming this and that, then lets see him tell us exactly how he's gonna do it.

While the basic principals behind the sentiment of his message are nice and righteous, the reality of him uniting red and blue Americans is another story, a pipe dream that people seem to be buying into.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. Actually, Obama has laid down the specifics......
if you don't know what voter power can mean, than you are one of the hopeless. :shrug:
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Yeah, that's why nobody can find them. nt
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 02:00 PM by mtnsnake
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. No, it appears that plenty have found them......
except for some here on DU.

These are the same people who have yet to show me how Edwards will "fight" specifically (since he showed not sign of doing this except for millions)....or why Bill Clinton's Monica Escapade and the distraction that insued is not the direct reason that Gore didn't become President and we were gifted with George Bush for 8 years.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
79. Don't wanna "unite" with neocons, want them pulverized & blown away
Edwards is my guy....
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #79
86. How is Edwards gonna "blow them away"......?
Edited on Mon Jan-07-08 01:55 PM by FrenchieCat
Its not like he blew them away for 3 years while they did their "thing" in Iraq.

What has Edwards done that has led you to believe that he gonna "pulverize and blow" away anyone?

Please give me some tangibles on Edwards "fighting" going back prior to him making a run for President or earning millions of dollars doing a job. Thank you.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
91. it is not going to happen in my red state!!..thats a pipe dream!! eom
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
92. This is such a happy fairy tale...
Why on earth do Americans fall for it every time??

This is NOT happening, people. They don't want to be friends with us. They want us REMOVE from the equation altogether. They want a PERMANENT REPUBLICAN MAJORITY that will run us over and leave us on the side of the road for dead!

And I'm not talking about the real everyday conservatives you meet in the grocery story-- or at least not most of the ones I meet. There's lots of good Republicans out there, people. I've got them in my own family. A little misguided, yes-- horrible evil people they are not. What I'm talking about are the ones in charge. The authors of PNAC who have enabled the military industrial complex, the Karl Roves, the Grover Norquists.... This is the fight of our lives and everyone had better wake up right now before it's too late.

We need a scrappy fighter of a President who will fight for The People and reinstate our Constitution. "Kumbayah" is going to get crushed under a bootheel.
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
93. Have you called his campaign staff or done some research on your own time?
"Anyone care to elaborate with specifics?"

Have you called his campaign staff or done some research on your own time to find out? If not, don't you think that would be the appropriate first step in finding an answer to this particular question?
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. Why? Did they give you the specifics? If so, please post them for us. nt
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
94. Obama has a "messiah" complex. He's talking as though he
is called (like bush) by G-d. This mornin' telling folks that the heavens will open and a light will shine down and tell them they should vote for him(obama). This is scary stuff. More so then bush....

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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #94
99. bullshit- absolute
bullshit.

Each one of our candidates HAVE to feel they are the best person for the job, or else they'd only be wasting a hell of alot of time and money for what????

Hillary believes SHE is the "best choice"- John Edwards believes HE is- and Dennis K- as well as every other person believes they fit the bill-

You are talking absolute nonsense.

and I'm sorry I am not able to be gentler in my reply.

I am coming to see Barak and the following he is generating as much more like Bill Clinton in '92- than I would have thought possible.

They have a similar charisma-
in my own personal opinion.
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #99
107. but clinton did not tell folks when they stepped into the voting
booth a light would shine down from the heavens and they would have an "Epiphany" and then cast their vote for him.....This to me is scary stuff.
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Cheap_Trick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
95. red america
can kiss my white ass
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
97. since he's been playing the generation card in the primaries
not to mention the McGurkin thing...

I don't how he's going to unite. Sounds like more empty rhetoric to me. He's shown himself to be more of a divider than a uniter so far.
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
98. I don't know, either...
If some people have decided to hate somebody forever, there's not much you can do to make them change.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
100. I can elaborate on details
He has just promised that he is going to appear on Bill O'Really's Peabody Award Winning Show
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tgnyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 04:14 PM
Response to Original message
101. Easy. Obama is a Jedi. The GOP is nothing against the Jedi mind trick.
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
103. I'd like someone to explain why it would be a good thing.
Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile.
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PretzelWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
108. How about a GOP sec of defense and sec of education?
how about REFUSING to go negative? How about inviting equal representation from both parties to conference on bills in the WH? how about allowing dissent at your speaking appearances?

there are many many substantive and figurative ways he can do so.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
109. He will do it if only we Hope enough for it
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calteacherguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-08-08 01:38 AM
Response to Original message
110. Three things.
1. He's already proven he attracts independent voters and open-minded Republicans. He will prove it again in NH as the majority of independents flock to him and NOT McCain.

2. He really is energizing young and old alike. It's the young that will expand our base the most significantly. It's a great time to be an American.

3. African American and minority vote....Obama will bring millions more into the processs.

That's how!
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