Congratulations, Edwards team! 3rd in Hawai! (2nd remains unnamed)

[robbedvoter]

From my mail:
The spin is beyond belief (Yahoo news said that "Edwards came in third" in Hawaii without mentioning Dennis!) but the facts are there: we beat him, and came in 2nd. Keep on keeping on!

Another reporter on C-span, however, said it was "the big surprise of the night," however, and called it a "very strong second" with 26%"
********************************
It sounded familiar, considering CNN withheld Clark's OK win a week, and Edwards had in on his site "tied for first in OK" just like he was also "tied for 3rd in NH"
Someone explain me this front runner thingy again:
Clark 1 state, Edwrds 1 state (where he was born), Kerry 18 states.
As recently as last night Tweety was decrying Clark's stubbornness not to drop out after winning OK, but Edwards is....front runner?
Could it be because of his very special base?
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/epolls/WI/index.html


Voters who are satisfied with the Bush Administration:
52% Edwards, 23% Kerry

Voters who are enthusiastic about * Administration:
33% Edwards, 10% Kerry

Conservatives voted Edwards, pro-Iraq voted Edwards

Those who are looking to beat Bush:
28% Edwards, 59% Kerry.

[redqueen]

1. Those numbers are mind-boggling

52% of Edwards' supporters are satisfied with bush?!

WTF?!

[DancingBear]

3. Mischief voting in open primaries, I would bet

The real numbers will show themselves in closed primaries such as NY and CA.

[Skwmom]

13. Of course.

The Republicans would love Bush to run against the "channeling of an unborn child candidate."

“In 1985, a 31-year-old North Carolina lawyer named John Edwards stood before a jury and channeled the words of an unborn baby girl.”

"She speaks to you through me," the lawyer went on in his closing argument. "And I have to tell you right now — I didn't plan to talk about this — right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you." http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/31/politics/campaign/31EDWA.html?ex=1390885200&en=4fb97ac07a96f186&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

[AP]

14. That baby was born and alive at the time of the trial and is alive today

and is living as comfortably as she possibly can with the money Edwards won for her.

[BurtWorm]

23. Why is Edwards having such a hard time raising that million?

Clark and Dean would have raised a million in a day or two tops. This drive has been on for almost a week, hasn't it?

[Adelante]

45. Not too long ago

Those graphic fundraisers were very much looked down upon by Edwards supporters. That campaign must really be desperate for money now.

[Skwmom]

29. Did I say the baby wasn't born alive?

I guess we can call it retroactive channeling? Anyway you look at it, it is still smarmy and sleazy.

[AP]

31. The smarmy part was the RW judge using this as grounds to overturn a

legitimate damage award.

Read Four Trials.

[surfermaw]

59. You got that right

The fighting of Edwards allows the little girl to love at home with her parents instead of being placed in an instution...and is still being fed about every 5 hours by tubes, and just so you know on the day Edwards closed, many many Lawyers in the Tarhill state fille the court to hear the young lawyer close.

[diamondsoul]

40. He did his job.

Nope, I dislike Edwards as a candidate, but no way in hell would I ridicule him for attempting to win a case by appealing to emotion. It happens all the time in the legal world and Edwards is no more smarmy or sleazy for doing it than any other attorney. Would you want one willing to do any less representing YOU? I wouldn't.

[AP]

6. In WI where inds and repubs voted ... ie, the formula for winning the GE

is before your eyes.

[redqueen]

8. They said themseleves they were satisfied with bush

but you expect them to vote for the less-than-one-term senator?

*sigh*

[AP]

11. Since when is it a bad idea to run someone people like MORE than someone

else.

If they have no problem with bush and STILL like Edwards more, that's GREAT!

You're going to get all the votes of the people who hate Bush. You need the votes of people who don't have bad feelings against him.

Duh!

We're not running for president of Berkeley, California. We're running for president of the United States.

[redqueen]

17. I don't trust them. Period.

If they are fickle enough to switch from bush to edwards, what's to stop them from changing their mind again before Nov?

I hope you're right. I pray you're right.

But this 'let's aim for the moderates' strategy has been a miserable failure for years, and despite all the failures by bush, I don't expect it to suddenly work like magic.

[AP]

22. If Kerry can't win them over, what's the point of running in November?

[Kahuna]

36. "Them" who? People already pleased with bush????

Don't you get it? If they are already supportive of bush, they more than likely voted for Edwards because they didn't want Kerry to win.

[AP]

Just because you're pleased with someone doesn't mean you can't be more

pleased with someone else.

And if Bush starts turning on the charm this fall, you better pray that we're running a candidate whom people are willing to support even though they think Bush is an OK guy.

[DancingBear]

18. Nice touch of "class" with the Clark sig line pic

We expected nothing less from you, and, as always, we are never disappointed.

Gee, nobody here will dance on your grave in about a week, will they?

[AP]

24. Class? Why do you think I added it?

I've seen some classy posts here the last few days. Real classy.

[DancingBear]

32. So you've decided to add to the stench?

Do the words "being above the fray" mean anything to you?

All you've done is further alienate anyone who was even remoting thinking of voting for your candidate - but I guess that doesn't matter as long as you can get a "dig" in, eh?

[AP]

39. Why be the only one?

Nobody who is mad about this was going to vote for Edwards anyway. Everyone else who has noticed the tone and dynamics of the discussion the last two days probably think's it's an interesting comment.

[robbedvoter]

41. Nope. Not Edwards voters. But you just got Kerry a few thousands

grassrooters & voters with that. people who were waiting the proimary, mellow about a race that wasn't theirs any more - whant Shelton's buddy out, and his arrogant people the karmic deserts soon.
deanies used to behave this way - although never quite that in your face.
I just forwarded a link to that to a group of over 700 Clarkies not yet signed with kerry. Just watch the dynamics (and tell Trippi too)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnitedForClark

[AP]

53. You hated Trippi speaking up for Clark supporters, but you didnt' waste

any time speaking up for thousands yourself.

Interesting.

[AP]

55. For all the Clark supporters robbed invited to read this:

I have defended Clark on this board when others wouldn't:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=406309

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=399025

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=399025

And here's my honest assesment of Clark's contribution to the campaign, which I think is very favorable and complimentary of Clark:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=348197

What I can't defend is the last two or three days on DU when all the nastiest attacks seem to come from Clark supporters.

I think there's something going on here which is a little dishonest. I've alwasy been honest in my assessment of the campaign, and have called shenanigans in defense of Clark when he was entitled to a defense.

I think that Edwards hasn't received the same honest treatment that Edwards supporters here have given to Clark.

[AP]

57. No responses to this?

[AP]

64. Still no response?

[DancingBear]

66. Why would there be?

We've seen hundreds of your posts - this transparent effort at "see, I'm fair!" is underwhelming at best.

If these were biblical times you'd be the person who stoned the sinner to death, then gave a moving eulogy declaring how much he's missed.

[AP]

70. Why? Because those thousands of Clark supporters coming here to see

what's up might get the impression that I'm fair, and that people calling for my execution were the ones about whom you might want to think twice before trusting.

And notice, those posts were from week ONE of Clark's campaign. That's how I started. That's not a eulogy. That's my opinion of Clark in its purest form, before Clarks campaign became about something else.

This isn't about Clark the person. It's about the dynamics of the criticisms of Edwards in the last two or three days, and it's about why an Edwards supporter might want to draw out an argument about those dynamics.

[Donna Zen]

99. Always thought you were fair.

And I believe it this very moment. I hope you can understand why I consider anyone supporting Shelton's views regarding foreign policy as off the radar. It is not just what Shelton said about Clark, which the Edwards' campaign spread, it is that Shelton is buddies with Rummy and Myers. Very, very, close to Myers. And Myers and Shelton both supported this war, and star wars. In fact according to some inside NASA folks, we are two treaties away from militarization of space.

Now these are policies I will never support as long as I live, so will Edwards and co. will pry my vote for them out of my cold dead hands.

The Edwards' foreign policy is 180 from Clark's. I know exactly why I supported Clark, and I also know that foreign policy with its ballooning budget sucks every dollar that could spent on domestic needs.

I guess I can't figure out why anyone who considers themselves both a Democrat and progressive would support Edwards and Shelton.

[AP]

101. Shelton and Edwards went to the same college. They've been friends for...

...decades, long before Shelton was powerful, and long before Edwards was anything but a local trial lawyer.

When Edwards entered the Senate, naturally he consulted Shelton. If you're going to know whether ANYONE's bullshitting you, it's going to be a guy whom you've known for years.

Shelton has helped prep Edwards for debates (on frgn policy questions) but this doesn't mean Edwards shares Shelton's views.

The shit Shelton said about Clark was said ONCE at a small college in CA. He has refused to say anything more (unlike those turds they interviewed on NPR, IIRC). In fact, Shelton hasn't even said anythign about Edwards in public (whereas, he said something good about Kerry a couple months ago).

I just think it's outragious to criticize Edwards for a decades-old relationship with Shelton, especially when Edwards has been nothing but gracious towards Clark (even though Clark has taken several direct shots at Edwards and still is).

[BootinUp]

73. Answer:

[AP]

102. Every prediction about Edwards has been wrong. If there such thing as

karma, you've probably just guaranteed that Edwards will now make it unleast until 3/9 and possibly farther.

[BootinUp]

26. who's arranging for the band?

LOL!

[robbedvoter]

34. I dunno, but thanks to AP & Trippi I have a stake in this race again

Maybe not a candidate, not a voice - but a big sharp stake.
back to letters to the editor now.

[Adelante]

What does the sig line say, DancingBear?

Thanks.

[DancingBear]

38. Picture of Wes

with a yellow banner/sash across one corner. The banner has the word "out" written on it - as in not-in-the-race anymore.

BTW, WesDem, you are much smarter than I am - I should try that. :) :)

[Adelante]

44. Heh

Kucinich supporters should sig a picture of Edwards wearing a hula skirt with the word "Rout" across the yellow sash.

I crack myself up. :7

[BootinUp]

46. Its going to be

rough around here the next few days.

[DancingBear]

51. Nah, you crack me up, too

"Son of a hula dancer places distant third..."

[Adelante]

54. "Son of a hula dancer places distant third..."

:7

Much better. :)

[no name no slogan]

91. Oh BEHAVE!

I don't think many of us DK supporters want any part of this particular pissing match.

We have several very good pissing matches of our own going on, thank you very much!

:dunce:

[Kahuna]

35. LOL! And thanks! I couldn't have said it better...

At least Clark had some pride and knew when to get out.

[robbedvoter]

9. You don't really think those W enthusiasts would stick with Edwards

in November do you? Cuz if you do, you probably also think Clarkies will vote for Edwards and the media is liberal...
Why is Edwards a front -runner with 1 state and Clark was forced to drop out of the race with one state? Still curious on that one. What in febr 3 results made it a kerry edwards race?

[AP]

12. The delegate count. Edwards had three times the delegats Clark had when

Clark dropped out.

[robbedvoter]

16. AP - every time I see your sig tag, I start a new thread, write a letter

tio the editor and otherwise expose your "I'd start a war" candidate.
I hope people here do know, Edwards already voted for W to go to war with Syria. Him and Joe.
Thanks for keeping me motivated and reminding me the purpose of your candidate in the race.

[AP]

19. Go for it. I can't believe that anything I've written or display in my...

...posts encourage you to do anything you wouldn't have done anyway.

[redqueen]

20. Voted to go to war with Syria?

You mean the Syria Accountability Act? I thought Kerry voted for it too. :shrug:

[robbedvoter]

28. Actually, Kerry did not vote on that at all.

Of course Edwards would have started all the Chimpy wars:

MATTHEWS: OK. I just want to get one thing straight so that we know how you would have been different in president if you had been in office the last four years as president. Would you have gone to Afghanistan?
EDWARDS: I would.
MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to Iraq?
EDWARDS: I would have gone to Iraq.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3131295/

[redqueen]

62. Well there's something to not think ill of him about, then.

Thanks.

:hi:

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

96. Didn't Clark have over 100 delegates...

Wouldn't that mean that at that time John Edwards would have had more delegates than he has now?

[AP]

103. He had in the mid-50s when he dropped out. Edwards had in mid-100s.

It think it was 144-56

[59millionmorons]

15. That is head scratching

I could not figure out why he dropped out so quick.

[AP]

21. Perhaps he was only running to help Kerry, and when he thought he'd done

all he could he pulled out.

[robbedvoter]

25. Look at AP sig line, think of the coverage - plus some possible dirty

tricks yet to be uncovered. Polipundit was urging freepers to donate to Edwards, The SC primaries were busted wide open the day before elections - everyone said it would favor Edwards (the dropping of the Democratic oath)
Entore GOP law rirms donated to Edwards

Reply

Donations to Sen. Edwards questioned
By Sam Dealey
http://www.hillnews.com/news/050703/edwards.aspx
Sen. John Edwards' presidential campaign finance documents show a pattern of giving by low-level employees at law firms, a number of whom appear to have limited financial resources and no prior record of political donations.
Records submitted to the Federal Election Commission (FEC) show these individuals have often given $2,000 to the North Carolina Democrat, the maximum permitted by law.
In many instances, all the checks from a given firm arrived on the same day -- from partners, attorneys, and other support staff.
     
Some of these support staff have not voted in the past, and those who have voted include registered Republicans, according to public records on file with various county registrars of voting.
Edwards' campaign records also reveal that many of these individuals' spouses and relatives contributed the maximum on the same day. The Hill found many of them to be first-time givers. Some have no previous demonstrable interest in politics, while others appear to be active Republicans.

[AP]

30. You have link for the Polipundit claim? Or even some

logical explanation for why Bush would rather run against Dukakis than Clinton?

And what's up with all the hatred directed at Edwards by Clark supporters? Kerry doesn't have the courage to do it himself?

[robbedvoter]

47. Clinton? Is Clinton in the race? Where? Where do I sign?

Daym! I thought Dean was Clinton! Now Edwards is Clinton? Bwa-ha-ha-ha!
FYI, the Clinton Clinton said the Dem nominee should have National Security credentials. (and no, footsying Homeland Security on us doesn't qualify son of a stoolie on that one ) Clinton! You do crack me up!
As in Rhodes scholar guy with a life time record in civil rights, opposed the Vietnam war, was elected governor anout 7 times, knows Saddan is not the same guy as OBL and was generous to a fault - that Clinton? Priceless!

[Qutzupalotl]

7. I think it's the other way around

Among voters who are satisfied with Bush, 52% would pick Edwards over Kerry.

[SahaleArm]

50. But would they pick Bush over Edwards?

That's the high-dollar question - because if that's the case then it doesn't matter who gets nominated for that subset of voters.

[Hav]

33. your interpretation of the numbers is not quite right I believe

(Numbers from the link of the original post and I hope I understood the numbers correctly)

Not 52% of Edwards supporters are satisfied with Bush.
50% of those who are satisfied with Bush voted for Edwards (if these numbers are right).
That is a difference you will hopefully see.

Only 12% of the voters were satisfied with Bush, of these 12% of all voters, 50 % voted for Edwards.

[jpgpenn]

2. Yes congrats are in order!

Wow, would America win with this guy or what?

[Desertrose]

4. thought DK came in 2nd @ 30% in HI

oh wait...did they forget to report that?
my bad!

:grr:

DR

[robbedvoter]

10. Congratulations, DK and team - this time straight on!

I know the feeling - we have been through that spin cycle too. But you did it!

[goodhue]

27. yes

Why do media always generaly ignore DK and when they do report DK at they report at lower percentage than he gets? In Hawaii, many news accounts have him at strong third of 26% but he has 30%. WTF? Similarly, in ME they stopped reporting DK number whatsover once he got above 13%, never mentioning his 16% finish.

[dawn]

56. DK DID come in 2nd!!

And he deserved it!!!

Congrats!!!

Why the heck didn't they report this properly? It makes me mad, too.

[sadiesworld]

5. They fell on Clark like a pack of wolves.

[Adelante]

37. Wonderful win in HI, DK and supporters!!

:bounce:

[diamondsoul]

42. They are completely blatant

about dismissing Kucinich now, and it's just sickening to me that we don't have more people voting for him purely to give the finger to the corporate whore media.

[disenfranchised]

43. It doesn't say "Those who are looking to beat Bush"

It says "More Important to you; Can beat Bush or Issues"

There's a completely different meaning to those two statements. If you are going to quote polls to suggest Republican conspiracies you should at least be somewhat accurate.

[robbedvoter]

48. Those enthusiastic about Bush - how hard it is to get it?

It was on CNN, not rense.

[disenfranchised]

58. This is what you said.

"Those who are looking to beat Bush:
28% Edwards, 59% Kerry."

That was not a polling question. You distorted the question to make your point. If you're supporting your claim with facts, you should be truthful.

I don't feel like engaging in this vitriol, I just want to point out you manipulated the poll.

[FrenchieCat]

49. Well,

We won't be beating Bush by having the TVee Candidate....errr, that would be John media-blowing-at-my-backside-but-so-what Edwards
(you see TVee still want their horse race...but annointed a candidate that ain't delivering...means they will have to try even harder)....

Edwards is the "made for TVee Candidate"......the man with one speech and two accents.

TVee Candidate, TVee Candidate, TVee Candidate.......

The pick of
Chris my-head-is-going-to-explode-cause-I-hate-Clinton Matthews
Judy ignorant-slut WoofWoof
Will I-am-a-spycho-let-me-babysit Schneider
and everyone at Faux......

Gee, his hair smells terrific.......but he won't be winning......

[robbedvoter]

52. Loved the Letterman homage! ha!ha! ha!

Apparently some of his followers think he is ...Clinton? is it better or worse than confusing him with John Edward?
because after all, Edwards is channeling the dead too:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/31/politics/campaign/31EDWA.html
"She speaks to you through me," the lawyer went on in his closing argument. "And I have to tell you right now — I didn't plan to talk about this — right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you."

[citizen snips]

60. This just in.

Clark is out of the race get over it.

[Cuban_Liberal]

61. Really frosted your ass that OK wouldn't certify Clark's win for a week...

So, of course, you blame EDWARDS because the State of Oklahoma wouldn't declare Clark the winner. That sure makes sense--- in Bizarro World!:wtf:

[jenk]

63. Barry Switzer did it!!!! it was him an the media conspiring against Clark

my "bitter clark disruptor" meter is going crazy today.

[Cuban_Liberal]

65. Yeah, I detect an element of 'sour grapes' in the post.

No mattter what the actual, substantive reasons, whatever caused Clark's downfall will ALWAYS be Edwards' fault, to some soreheads...

[jenk]

67. the one's that post on DU

those soreheads are not representative of clark supporters across america, and thank god for that. But without clark supporters jumping ship to edwards, we wouldn't be in the final 2.

[Cuban_Liberal]

68. True.

Good point.

[diamondsoul]

69. And my Edwards defense

team meter is going off just as much.

[jenk]

71. we'll defend our candidate

nothing wrong with that.

[jpgpenn]

74. defend? with what?

The man has nothing in his record to defend with! If so put it up, a few links will work nicely!

BTW, don't try the ole Edwards supporter tactic of linking us back to his own trumped up website!

[Cuban_Liberal]

76. I'll try any 'tactic' I choose to.

I can use a link to the website, if Clark...errr, Kerry supporters can use RW hit pieces.

[jpgpenn]

78. "tactics" are all Edwards has!

:puke:

[Cuban_Liberal]

79. At least he's not whoring himself out in hopes of becoming VP.

He has SOME dignity, at least....

[jpgpenn]

80. another one of your warped perceptions....

of reality!:dunce:

[Cuban_Liberal]

82. Not at all.

I wonder how Clark is managing to campaign, with all the time he's spending kneeling in front of Kerry...

[maddezmom]

84. wow, talk about vitrol!

[Cuban_Liberal]

85. Talk about provocation.

It's a 2-way street.

[DancingBear]

86. Are you the same guy from the other post?

You know, the one who is lamenting all the vitriol against Edwards by Clark folks?

Just wonderin'...

Not that John is running for VP or anything as we speak....

[maddezmom]

89. yup, that would be the same poster

:eyes:

[Cuban_Liberal]

90. See: 'provocation'

I don't take crap from anyone, and if they talk shit, I'll talk shit right back.

[DancingBear]

94. See "mommy, he started it!"

I'll cut you some slack here, because I've read other posts of yours and they're nothing like this. Sometimes it's OK to leave this place for a while, lest you get into flame wars for no reason.

BTW, bravado is not becoming.

[Cuban_Liberal]

95. At least one other poster could use the same advice.

Wouldn't you agree? :)

[DancingBear]

97. Yes - but who do you mean?

I'm looking around the room - don't see anyone who fits that description...

Must be out back somewhere...

:)

[Cuban_Liberal]

98. Oh, there is.

Fortunately for him/her, DU rules forbid me from mentioning who it is.

[Cuban_Liberal]

72. Key word is 'defense', diamondsoul.

If there had been no attack, there would have been no need to defend.

[robbedvoter]

75. It was CNN who wouldn't declare Clark the winner

While projecting Edwards for SC with no votes in (I guess all them GOP voters were all accounted for by CNN ahead of time). The rest of the media did it. Certification always takes time - no problem with OK. Problem with the media which artificially elevated your new boy while completely ignoring Clark.

[Cuban_Liberal]

77. So....blame Edwards?

Huh? :shrug:

[robbedvoter]

83. Nope. Don't blame. Don't want him either. reasons posted many times

One more time for you:
MATTHEWS: OK. I just want to get one thing straight so that we know how you would have been different in president if you had been in office the last four years as president. Would you have gone to Afghanistan?
EDWARDS: I would.
MATTHEWS: Would you have gone to Iraq?
EDWARDS: I would have gone to Iraq.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3131295/

[Cuban_Liberal]

87. I saw it the 1st 17 times you copied and pasted it in GD-P2004.

:eyes:

[robbedvoter]

92. Good. Now explain the transition from dean to Edwards in view of that

i remember you guys slamming geppy, kerry + Edwards for not being quite so...for Biden Lugar as your guy. The change came about because?

[Cuban_Liberal]

93. I was not among them.

Ask one of them.

[jenk]

81. you're lucky clark didn't get slammed by the media

for blowing another 20 point lead in oklahoma

[robbedvoter]

88. You guys do know karma will come back to you quite soon, right?

Ask your new friends the deanies how it felt when they were looking down on us for not having so much money. or to kerry people for being out....
keep preening and spewing and believing your PR.

[FreeSpeechCrusader]

100. Yeah and Edwards is lucky for the media not reporting

that John Edwards had been campaigning in Oklahoma for over a year... and was beaten by a man that had been campaigning there for a week.