Donnie McClurkin must be very happy tonight!

[Beausoir]

He helped Obama win in Iowa.

[Bullet1987]

1. Would you please give it up...geez

[Beausoir]

4. Obama used Donnie McClurkin to garner votes. Do you have a problem with that?

Are you ashamed about it?

[Kucinich4America]

17. And which homophobe are you voting for?

Because they are all. Except Dennis.

[snowbear]

20. I'd say the only person we're ashamed of right now......

..... is YOU.

-
-
-

[Beausoir]

23. Really? You are not ashamed of Donnie McClurkin and his gay bashing? You don't have time for that?

Where do you stand on civil rights for gay people?

[Capn Sunshine]

137. I've always wondered what you meant by gay bashing- Mc Clurkin "used to be" gay

Is it gay bashing because he says his prayer and faith "cured " him?
Or does he talk about homosexuals as an abomination unto the lord a la Leviticus? My impression is the former, not the latter.

I'm not convinced a gay person who is born that way can "change" even with prayer, but some feel it's too big a cross to bear, I dunno.

[SOS]

156. Clinton is campaigning tonight

with the guy who signed the Defense of Marriage Act.
Don't you find that upsetting?

[hulklogan]

77. I'm not ashamed of the OP

I'm ashamed of the pathetic smart-ass attacks of the Obamatons.

[LittleClarkie]

21. I thought that was only down south

how is Iowa down south?

[Lyric]

55. I should hope not.

I know I'll never forget, and damn well never forgive. I'll vote for him in the general if I have to, but it'll make me freaking sick to do it.

[Thrill]

2. YAWN

[Beausoir]

8. Does Donnie McClurkin and his gay-bashing agenda make you bored?

Obama thinks this guy is great.

Do you?

[Lyric]

57. Thank you Beausoir

I swear, sometimes I think we less-than-straight Democrats are expected to just shut up and take whatever abuse gets dished out without complaint. I'm freaking sick of it.

[Beausoir]

58. I'm sick of it too! Sick to the gills of people who condone this kind of bullshit.

Donnie McClurkin was hired by Barack Obama to garner votes. Plain and simple.

I will never vote for Obama. Ever.

[Kucinich4America]

76. Then maybe you should have rallied the "less than straight Democrats" around Dennis Kucinich

...and then maybe he would have been in the top three in Iowa instead of three candidates who are equally homophobic in their actions and political rhetoric.

It sickens me to read all this "gays support Hillary" shit, because Hillary supports the gay community only slightly more than a Republican.

There's a candidate out there who supported full equality. As well as single payer healthcare, an end to the Iraq occupation and this insane corporatist/Likudist driven foreign policy, and the best environmental agenda this side of Al Gore. But when the opportunity came up, most people would rather make LAME excuses not to support him, rather than vote for what they really want.

Well, now Iowa's happened and you're stuck with the candidates the corn farmers picked for you. How do you like what THEY dished out?

[Lyric]

82. Wow.

First: I don't live in Iowa, so *I* didn't make up lame excuses not to vote for *anyone*. *My* primary isn't until May. Kucinich will probably drop out before then, so why exactly are you griping at *me*?

Second: I don't believe that Obama is going to get the nomination just because he won Iowa, so the corn farmers haven't picked *anyone* for me--at least, not yet.

Third: None of the candidates that actually had a chance of winning a GENERAL election support full equality. But none of the others knowingly gave a soapbox to a homophobe at a campaign concert either. THAT is my problem with Obama.

[Kucinich4America]

109. Don't take my previous response personally

It wasn't directed at you as an individual. I get why the Donnie McCloset thing pissed people off. It was a bad judgment call on Obama's part, but it was one incident and it was months ago. It doesn't turn him into fucking Fred Phelps, and it doesn't warrant the 8,675,309 threads which have been posted on the subject. Most of them started and/or fueled by Hillbots who are just looking for ANY excuse to bash Obama, when the fact is, Hillary's record on LGBT issues isn't any better. Nor are the rest of the candidates, apart from Gravel and Kucinich. And apparently Richardson signed a non-discrimination bill when it comes to employment.

My point is that if everyone who actually voted their true values DID support Kucinich, he would have been viable in Iowa, and in fact, might have won the damn thing. He's right on equality. Right on health care. Right on the war. Right on trade issues.

But too many people chickened out. And now we're stuck with lesser candidates. Two of the three would be better than the Repukes. But neither better than Dennis :evilfrown:

[Bluebear]

150. "Yawn. The feelings of gay people bore me."

[FrenchieCat]

3. I'd rather a candidate with a supporter who is a known homophobic....

than a candidate who rationalized a war that we had no business starting.

If I had to choose based on the "Mistakes" that the various candidates have made over their lifetime, I'll be choosing Obama everytime.

[Beausoir]

16. Well, you definitely DO have a candidate who is a proud homophobic! Congrats on that.

Jesus.

How pathetic.

[FrenchieCat]

36. Actually I don't, and that makes it all the better......

You don't have a clue in what you are saying, but I'm happy tonight and you can't take that away from me. Sorry! :hi:

[Beausoir]

42. Sleep well. Enjoy and savor your Donnie McClurkin/Obama victory.

Gay bashing doesn't EVER make me sleep well.

Maybe I need to drink some kool-aid??

[Capn Sunshine]

138. How is Obama homophobic?

? :shrug:

[Colobo]

5. Blah.

[Raiden]

6. Arrrgghhh!! Why can't Obama and his supporters celebrate this hard earned victory?

We made history tonight and even here at Democratic Underground, we can't give a universal round of applause...

[Beausoir]

12. Because gay-bashing at DU is not acceptable?? Just a thought.

[Raiden]

22. Because Obama is a known gay-basher....

:eyes: Spare me...

[Beausoir]

24. Obama hired a gay-basher. Can you refute that?

[JackBeck]

28. His campaign funded more than just one at that event.

Getting trampled on by the Democrats is getting increasingly tired.

[Beausoir]

30. It's really disheartening. To see so many so-called progressives support a gay-basher.

How much longer does this have to continue?

[mzmolly]

102. I support John Edwards, and I congratulate Obama and his supporters

neither Edwards or Obama is a 'gay basher'. Good grief, drama much?

[Renew Deal]

7. Did you know Obama eats gay kittens?

meow

[K Gardner]

9. Oh, here we go again.

[ellisonz]

10. YAWN

[snowbear]

11. Take a f'n hike loser

Before your ass is tombstoned for good.

[Beausoir]

14. Snerk. I've been here for a very long time. And I support LGBT Civil Rights.

Do you?

[Nailzberg]

48. So does Obama.

89 rating from Human Rights Campaign
CoSponsor on 5 of 6 bills currently supported by HRC.
Sponsored SB101 in IL General Assembly (Human Rights Act)
Voted against Federal Marriage Amendment
Would remove Don't Ask, Don't Tell


And one dumbass PR move in South Carolina.

I'm not ready to throw him to the wolves for that. It was insulting, and I'm not excusing it. He burned some currency with me, but I still believe he's as good as any other candidate on LGBT issues.

[hulklogan]

71. The same HRC that didn's support a trans-inclusive ENDA

Who cares what they think about any of the candidates?

[Nailzberg]

96. A lot of posters seem too.

I see a lot of HRC logos in signature lines around here. A lot of the people that seem to care deeply about this issue.

[TheWatcher]

121. Which is why it's so confusing why they would support a candidate who doesn't .

Getting treated like a second rate citizen by BOTH parties is getting old for some of us.

[Seabiscuit]

84. Gay rights are also civil rights.

Civil rights aren't just a black issue. Civil rights apply to all citizens.

You can't claim you support civil rights when you align yourself with a gay-bashing gay-baiting KKKristian minister without being a total hypocrite.

[Nailzberg]

111. Where did I confuse the african american civil rights movement with civil rights of LGBTs.

I am not excusing his involving Donnie McClurkin in his SC rally/concert shit. I considered that a major foul.

However, I mentioned several examples of Obama's support LGBT issues because I think it's important to weigh in before labeling Obama a homophobe and not just write him off as some KKKristian because he made a bad move.

I certainly do not begrudge people the right to choose another candidate. This has done damage to his standing in the LGBT community, and rightfully so. But I don't think Obama has been any worse than any other major candidate on LGBT concerns than others.

[Seabiscuit]

118. I never said you did.

I was just speaking my mind about the Obama McClurkin thing.

But I will take issue with you on your assertion that Obama's no worse than any other candidate on w/r/t gay rights. NO other candidate but Obama has pandered to a gay-bashing KKKristian minister. That makes him worse than the entire field.

[Nailzberg]

119. I agree with you that the McClurkin deal was pandering.

As Rick Garcia said in the Washington Blade, "If Rev. Phelps had a strong base, maybe Sen. Obama would hook up with him, as well."

I could agree more. Obama definitely sold out the LGBT community by not including McClurkin from his rally. I've seen those statistics that claim the african-american christian community in South Carolina is about 70% anti-gay. And I am disappointed Obama included McClurkin in his rally to bring in those votes.

You have a good point. I was very disappointed in Obama over this. And I wish he'd take a firmer stance on LGBT issues. I wish all the candidates would take a firmer stance. But I believe that to do so would be political suicide, and I'd rather have Obama in office than Huckabee or Romney. I just don't believe the Dems can win this thing if they run an LGBT rights campaign, and that can be called cowardice, but what choice do we have? I believe Obama, as well as Clinton or Edwards, or any other Dem candidate, will be there to support LGBT rights if elected. It's still the primaries, so let's slam away and let the candidate know where the voters stand. I just get upset when I hear good candidates referred to as homophobes, when I do not believe they are. He made a boneheaded move for political gain.

I'll continue to remind him of the disappointment that the McClurkin incident caused, but I don't think he's anti-gay or a homophobe as many have suggested.

[Seabiscuit]

124. A Dem candidate doesn't have to "run an LGBT rights campaign".

But that's still no reason for Obama to go out of his way to pander to McClurkin.

There are probably thousands of black southern ministers he could have sought the support of that are not openly and aggressively anti-gay. Obama knew this yet sought McClurkin out nonetheless. Why? Go figure. Stupidity? Naievete? I'm not about to call Obama a homophobe, but he sure pandered unnecessarily to one.

That at the very least shows a profound lack of good judgment. That's what bothers me most.

[bcoylepa]

126. agree

he's no homophobe but he has some learning to do - we all do
and I wish the people who call him out on this would ask for a meeting and talk to the campaign
here's the real secret we all want to ignore
we cannot win with just Democrats - there are not enough of us to do so
I wish it were not the case but it is
also - I think Obama and his campaign choose McClurkin because they liked his singing not his beliefs- it even gave Obama the opportunity to say he disagreed with him
so it is not as simple as you make it - nothing is - but glbt americans stand a much better chance being heard & repected with an Obama in the white house then any Repug and I think you all know that

[jefferson_dem]

13. Sure. Have a nice rest.

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

15. You have no class.

[Beausoir]

18. As opposed to Donnie McClurkin who says that gay people can be "cured"?

Don't you DARE lecture me about class.

[AtomicKitten]

26. Oh, I dare.

Your obsession with this mistake Obama made regarding this concert has really gone off the rails. That is a personal problem on your part because you apparently don't have the ability to process life very well.

Your beef is with McClurkin and your insistence on projecting that anger on Barack Obama is getting tiresome, particularly your attacks on people that understand that this isn't anywhere in the ballpark of the heinous crime you make it out to be.

Most of the rest of DU has the class and good sportsmanship for a tiny moment tonight to not be assholes even if they can't come out and actually congratulate the winners tonight.

But, please, rage on. Assign all your presumptuous and inevitably accusatory shit onto me and burn down that strawman down. Knock yourself out. I've given you a cybermatch to light it. Rage on.

[Beausoir]

29. But..you didn't answer the question. Do you believe what Donnie McClurkin claims?

Do you believe that gay people can be "cured"?

Obama hired this guy for a reason. Just answer the simple question.

[AtomicKitten]

31. No and neither does Obama.

[Beausoir]

35. So why did Obama hire Donnie McClurkin? Please answer that simple question.

[AtomicKitten]

46. The concert was put together for him. I never even heard of

that douchebag McClurkin before now. Obama realized there was a problem and tried to remedy it by adding another speaker, and we know how nicely that went over. But the truth is, and I think we both know this is true, there is absolutely nothing - zip, nada, goose-egg - Obama could have done to remedy this to your satisfaction.

It was an unfortunate mistake. But viewed broadly, Obama has a good LGBT record as critiqued by LGBT critics. Does that matter at all? He's not your champion but, jeez, and this is something that I don't get either so you're not alone here in that regard, he was against this illegal, immoral war from the beginning. Does that resonate at all with you? This war has been catastrophic on so many levels.

Hate him all you like but stop hating DU'ers for still supporting him. Please.

[Beausoir]

56. Oh please. What a cop-out. Obama knowingly hired a gay basher to garner votes. At least be

honest with yourself about it.

Obama KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY hired a gay-basher to garner votes.

You may be able to excuse that away but I can not.

[AtomicKitten]

61. And now you are just making shit up to fuel your own rage, so rage on ....

I've got some celebrating to do.

[Beausoir]

62. Enjoy your celebration.

[bcoylepa]

127. maybe for his singing???

just a thought

[NYCGirl]

34. He sure did "hire this guy for a reason." To sing Gospel music. NT

[JackBeck]

39. Check out the last half-hour of his appearance.

Donnie wasn't singing.

[NYCGirl]

41. Do you have a clip? I don't live in SC nor do I listen to Gospel. NT

[JackBeck]

49. Here's a link to one of the many summaries of the event.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/10/29/obama-and-the-gay-bashing-former-gay-donnie-mcclurkin/

Don't have a link to McClurkin's anti-gay rant, but it is out there, so have fun finding it. Many of us have seen it and commented on it back in October.

[FredScuttle]

53. "God delivered me from homosexuality"

That's the money quote from Pastor Donnie's exhortation to the crowd of religious bigots that cheered him on

[NYCGirl]

65. Do you think that Obama wrote that? Approved it? N/T

[JackBeck]

70. His campaign approved funding a bunch of homophobes.

Looks like it worked.

What is it going to take to impress upon fellow progressives that we need a leader that doesn't pander to homophobes?

Would we support a Democratic Presidential candidate that gave face time to the KKK?

[NYCGirl]

72. They're fucking GOSPEL SINGERS. These are not mainstream entertainers.

Most of the world outside of a church in SC has no idea who these people are -- and could care less.

[JackBeck]

75. You just proved my point about pandering.

Why did Obama pay them any attention to begin with?

[Divine Discontent]

123. well, regardless of the fact, there was a huge flap about this event

before it even took place, Barack knew of Donnie McClurkin's 'healing' from living the gay 'lifestyle' and gospel singers always talk before and after songs (it's not like a rock concert where they rarely do anything but curse), and Barack had time to tell Donnie he wasn't going to include him on his Gospel Tour stage in support of Obama '08. Barack did not do that and that disgusting man, Donnie, went on a bitch fest that is comical and annoying to watch, all at the same time.

Here he is at Obama's Gospel Tour rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dUp16hFzY8

Pretty disgusting. The Obama people, #1, shouldn't have had him on their stage, and #2, after allowing him should have cut his mic with 'technical difficulties'.

Pretty ridiculous of Obama to include the guy who wants to exterminate homosexuality!

Congrats to Obama on a great Iowa win by the way, and his supporters.

[JackBeck]

63. Here's a clip from my good friend buffy.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/10/29/mcclurkin.speech.cnn

[JackBeck]

43. It may be a simple "mistake" to you

But it speaks volumes to those of us who would rather support a candidate that wouldn't make that "mistake" to begin with.

[Beausoir]

47. Ouch. That makes me very sad.

There ARE still a few of us out here that do not condone hatred toward the GLBT community.

But, it appears, we are in the ever shrinking minority.

[AtomicKitten]

50. You assigned the adjective "simple" which is geared to

trivialize, marginalize, and reframe what I actually said. That also speaks volumes. And it is that very inclination to exaggerate that is a strawman in the making. If you can't take what I say at face value without editorializing, why bother?

[JackBeck]

54. You trivialized Obama's pandering by calling it a "mistake".

'It may be a ( ) "mistake" to you

But it speaks volumes to those of us who would rather support a candidate that wouldn't make that "mistake" to begin with.'

Care the address the statement with the one word removed?

[AtomicKitten]

59. He was pandering to the gospel music-loving community.

You mischaracterize the tresspass you are calling out here. The gospel tour was organized for and sponsored by Obama, a tour that included all kinds of gospel singers.

He was pandering to the gospel music-loving community, casting a wide net for votes because in case you haven't heard he is running for president. In fact, he just won the first primary handily.

Everything isn't about you. Everthing is not a slight. If you take that upon yourself, that is yours to deal with, and I reject your assertion that unless we all think the way you do we are ___________ (fill in the blank with your favorite nasty epithet de jour).

I support Obama proudly. You are biting off your nose to spite your face and you don't even know it.

[JackBeck]

68. He was pandering to homophobes.

By including many homophobes on his "gospel tour". McClurkin wasn't the only one. Are you suggesting that the gospel community is predominately anti-gay? And if they are, what does that say about his Presidential bid?

http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2007/10/30/nbjc-commentary-gays-and-gospel-music/

I still stand by my assertion that I'd rather support a candidate that doesn't pander to homophobes than one that slums for votes among "ex-gays".

Would you support a white Democratic candidate that reaches out to the KKK?

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

74. Oh but that's not the same thing Jack, the bible says it's perfectly ok to hate gays

That's always the argument anyway, we have to respect their religious beliefs.

[Renew Deal]

27. Hillary's top supporter is guilty as well.

Bill signed DOMA and that did tons more damage to gays than McClurkin ever could.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

19. So am I. nt

[FredScuttle]

25. Thank you for this post

Some will never forget.

[Beausoir]

32. I will NEVER forget. Ever.

[donheld]

33. No he did not

I don't like Obama's using Donnie boy any more than any self-respecting gay man does, but don't credit McJurkin with this win.

[More Than A Feeling]

37. I don't think he helped in Iowa, but this is an important reminder.

When push came to shove, and Obama had to make a choice with potential consequences for his campaign, he chose anti-gay evangelicals over gays.

That isn't very hopeful.

[Beausoir]

38. Yes. Obama CHOSE Donnie McClurkin as one of his spokesmen. I can't forgive that.

[David Zephyr]

40. Turn it over and play the hit side. Give this nonsense a rest for crying out loud.

I am gay and have been an activist for our community since the 1970's. Obama will be better for our community that Bill promised to be and never was.

[Beausoir]

44. So..you agree with Donnie McClurkin that you, as a gay person, can be "cured"?

Do you really beleive that?

[David Zephyr]

66. Of course not. Don't create straw men to fight against. It's beneath you.

I have nothing but contempt for McClurkin. Give it a rest. I know your heart is in the right place, but Obama is on your side.

[Beausoir]

67. No one who knowingly hires a bigoted gay-basher is "on my side". Have some self-respect.

How can you possibly support this?

[Lyric]

73. He sure as hell isn't on *my* side

He knew McClurkin was an anti-gay firebrand. He knew what was going to happen when he hired him. He did it anyway.

Insulting and abandoning gay people for the sake of a handful of fundie votes is disgusting.

[FredScuttle]

51. And he demonstrates this....how?

By welcoming an "ex-gay" clown into his campaign and giving this bigot a microphone and a stage to spew homophobic filth to a receptive crowd of religious bigots in South Carolina?

This is your savior?

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

45. Homophobia vindicated in Amerikkka once again n/t

[CyberPieHole]

52. Racist!

:eyes:


Don't you know by now, you aren't supposed to bring that up...Obama's pandering to bigots has been forgiven by his supporters.

[cboy4]

60. I don't understand why people are upset with what you

wrote.

Donnie McClurkin is ecstatic tonight no doubt.

Why wouldn't he be?

He's part of the campaign.

I'm not sure if he helped Obama win in Iowa per se.

In fact, maybe Obama would have won by a larger margin had he not embraced such a dangerous person.

[Beausoir]

64. They are upset because deep down they know that what Obama did was wrong.

But, neither he nor his cling-ons can admit it.

Obama knowingly and willfully hired a gay-bashing bigot to garner votes.

And that's okay with most DUers.

Not okay with me. Never ever will be.

[cboy4]

69. Yea, the McClurkin incident was not a big deal for

most DUers because. let's be honest, it really didn't affect them at all.

I don't go so far as some who are calling Obama a homophobe.

I don't believe he's a homophobe. I believe he's a serial panderer.

He clearly and defiantly embraced a very dangerous person, despite sincere pleas not to.

And now he can't be trusted.

If he will betray people once because it's politically advantageous, there's absolutely no question he'll do it again.

I know this makes Obama supporters furious to hear, but yet they're unable to articulate why they believe it cannot happen again.

[MuseRider]

133. **DING**

This is exactly what I am thinking. It will take many years of proving he will be good to the GLBT community now when it was really not a big question before. He can say all he wants to say and show his record all he wants but he sold you out to pander for votes. That will cost him for a long time and if his supporters are tired of hearing it they should be writing him about it, not making excuses.

The thing that really puzzles me is the continued rationalization of this by many of his supporters. Rather than pummel him with cries for apology and change they just sigh and try to make it go away. He will never change if supporters don't make him aware of the danger of the path he chose to take. Lord knows no GLBT person or organization could get him to care about it.

[readmoreoften]

78. I think it helped solidify Obama as a "family-values friendly" Christian. It's the worst

bus-throwing-under since Bill Clinton told Kerry to forget us after '04.

Obama and Huck will be in a race to out-Christian one another. Lucky for America Obama will probably win. Lucky for my gay atheist ass, I might be able to get out of the states by 2009.

[libnnc]

79. I agree with you, I think we're going to see

a dueling Jesus fest if the nominees are Huckafuck and Barack Obama.

Huckafuck will play the scary gay card and Obama will react instead of stand up to it.

That's how it will play out. Bank on it.

[mzmolly]

80. Obama is not the homophobic boogie man some wish to make him out to be.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

[JackBeck]

81. Why did he pander to homophobes?

Would you support a white Presidential candidate that pandered to racists?

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

83. Stop worrying, and learn to love the backstabber

A few sips of the kool-aid, and you'll stop caring about anything except Saint Obama's political ascendancy.

[JackBeck]

114. Funny how those who blindly support him

disregard his change from being pro-gay rights to supporting anti-gay, "ex-gays".

[mzmolly]

86. If a candidate panders to the KKK by voting as Obama has,

I'd say the KKK needs a 'better' representative?

Obama's record speaks for itself as does the politics in bogus 'Obama hates gays' rhetoric.

G'night. :hi:

[JackBeck]

87. When one turns their back on their own record

to pander for votes, that makes me vomit.

[mzmolly]

90. You are certainly entitled to that opinion

Jack.

[JackBeck]

94. It's more than an opinion.

Obama was the one that destroyed his past, not me.

[mzmolly]

101. Destroyed all of the good that he has done because he didn't 'vet'

a gospel singer? Gotcha.

[JackBeck]

103. What don't you get about "pandering"?

He didn't need to go there...yet he did.

And it wasn't just "a gospel singer". It was the anti-gay attitudes of most of those who performed.

[mzmolly]

107. Donnie McClurkin "we believe everyone should have the same rights..."

"Don't call me a bigot, when I have been touched by the same feelings" ... listening now.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/10/29/mcclurkin.speech.cnn

The guy is a brainwashed, self-loathing fool, but if this is your idea of a scary boogieman I'd say you've been pretty sheltered?

I'm out, goodnight.

[JackBeck]

112. My life is far from sheltered.

And I do find those who claim that God delivered them from homosexuality very scary. And moreover, any Presidential candidate that supports these individuals, especially when they previously had a pro-gay rights history, especially bothersome, since they are turning their back on years of hard work.

Again, why would a candidate support anti-gay rhetoric when they previously worked against it?

[mzmolly]

129. I don't feel that 'Obama' supports anyone. It's the opposite.

He has the support of McClurkin which doesn't make HIM a homophobe.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

134. His response to the Advocate excused homophobes as "good, decent and moral"

He defended homophobes like McClurkin, but he doesn't support them? Riiiight...

"These events have provided an important opportunity for us to confront a difficult fact: There are good, decent, moral people in this country who do not yet embrace their gay brothers and sisters as full members of our shared community."

http://www.queerty.com/obama-talks-gay-again-20071112/

[mzmolly]

135. Did you ever hear the phrase "meet people where they are and take them were you want them to go?"

(Paraphrased)

He can't call them immoral, indecent people and expect to change their minds.

Can't get the link to work, but I read the article previously.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

139. That argument is never used as a strategy to oppose racism

All I ask is that there be no double-standard in how racism and homophobia is dealt with. A candidate's career would be toast if he showed anything less than contempt for racists. Look at how much trouble Dean got for the confederate flag remark, which was only inferred to be about racists.

And I like how you glossed over the fact that that quote proves Obama does support McClurkin and his ilk.

[mzmolly]

141. Since when do racists say 'we should love everybody?'

That's what Mr. McClurkin stated at the event in question. Yes, he believes he was 'cured' of his gayness by 'God' but he still espouses that people are created equal and should not be discriminated against ... To equate his convoluted, self loathing to embracing the KKK is intellectually lazy.

I'll check back later.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

142. On the 700 Club, McClurkin said gays want to kill our children

Defending Obama's pandering to homophobes is intellectually contemptible. As is telling gay people that we have to kiss homophobic ass to obtain the rights already promised to us in the constitution.

[mzmolly]

148. Do you have a clip?

That is an absurd statement to be sure.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

143. Btw, saying homosexuality is a sin is considered bigotry on DU

A few of the Obama fans got tombstoned for saying they believed it's a sin, but they're "hate the sin, love the sinner" types like McClurkin, so they couldn't see why anyone was making a fuss about it. And McClurkin was certainly preaching that homosexuality is a sin that night on Obama's stage.

McClurkin's a part of the ex-gay movement, which has lead to countless suicides of gay teens when they find out they can't pray the gay away after all. So I'd compare the ex-gay movement to the KKK, whether you like it or not.

[mzmolly]

147. I don't believe it's a 'sin' in fact, I don't subscribe to the notion of 'sin' personally.

I subscribe to 'right' and 'wrong' and levels of inbetween. I don't think that what adults do sexually is any of my business. I support gay rights including the same rights to partnership that I have as a heterosexual.

Also, as far as I know, McClurkin is not a member of DU? Nor is he Obama's running mate.

You feel free to compare McClurkin to the KKK if you like, and I'll feel free to suggest that the comparison is over the top.

Lastly, let me say that given we're speaking about racism, it's ironic that on some level you can't celebrate what happened for America in Iowa last night?

Obama has a solid RECORD on equality - that's what's important. The hubub about the appearance of a delusional singer, is "politics."

...............................................................................................

“I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

"I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin’s views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division.” ~ Barack Obama

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

151. I wasn't referring to *your* view of homosexuality, I was referring to McClurkin's

McClurkin isn't a member of DU, but we are members of DU, and the rule is homophobia doesn't get to hide behind the bible here. Your argument relies on saying McClurkin said nothing bigoted on that stage, but according to DU rules he did. So even though you're not saying you agree that homosexuality is a sin, you are still defending that belief as not being bigoted. If not, feel free to clarify that by admitting he did spew homophobia on Obama's campaign stage.

"Lastly, let me say that given we're speaking about racism, it's ironic that on some level you can't celebrate what happened for America in Iowa last night?"

How the FUCK do you know know whether or not, or on what level I'd be able to celebrate the election of a black president? I wasn't aware that we shared a brain and you were privy to my every thought. Here's a hint, I don't post my every thought on DU, dearest. What unbelievable nerve you have in accusing me of being racist for something you *haven't* seen me post (celebration of the first caucus win by a black candidate), that is not even part of the brief discussion we've had.

And btw, we're discussing bigotry here. When you're opposed to bigotry there isn't a line between "racism" and "homophobia", it's all the same thing, bigotry.

You feel free to compare McClurkin to the KKK if you like, and I'll feel free to suggest that the comparison is over the top."

Right, because it'd be "over the top" to care about all the gay teens involved in ex-gays therapy who have killed themselves, and to think homophobia is just as important as racism.

[mzmolly]

152. I said his remarks are not akin to those of a group that actually advocated MURDER for decades.

How the FUCK do you know know whether or not, or on what level I'd be able to celebrate the election of a black president? I wasn't aware that we shared a brain and you were privy to my every thought. Here's a hint, I don't post my every thought on DU, dearest. What unbelievable nerve you have in accusing me of being racist for something you *haven't* seen me post (celebration of the first caucus win by a black candidate), that is not even part of the brief discussion we've had.

Accused YOU of being racist? Tone it down a notch. I suggest it's the other way around, you're the one tossing around the KKK card "dearest."

And btw, we're discussing bigotry here. When you're opposed to bigotry there isn't a line between "racism" and "homophobia", it's all the same thing, bigotry.

And, I'm talking out the position of the candidate in question who is NOT a BIGOT. You, on the other hand, want to discuss an appearance with a gospel singer and compare it to Obama taking a match to a cross or a picture of Matthew Shepard.

You feel free to compare McClurkin to the KKK if you like, and I'll feel free to suggest that the comparison is over the top."

Right, because it'd be "over the top" to care about all the gay teens involved in ex-gays therapy who have killed themselves, and to think homophobia is just as important as racism.

My niece is a gay teen, and she's never heard of Donnie McClurkin. Donnie McClurkin is a deluded idiot, he's not a murderer.

THIS is what the KKK has done to people:



Your spin, once again is OVER THE TOP. Barack Obama won Iowa last night, not Donnie McClurkin, NOT THE KKK.

[cboy4]

93. Oh I don't think Obama hates gays. He's only a minority

sell out and a back stabber.

And he's sneaky and untrustworthy.

Just the qualities I'm looking for in a president. :puke:

[JackBeck]

95. Especially when you've spent most of your career

supporting Gay rights...only to crap on that community when you run for President...sounds a bit...hmmm...Romney-esque.

[cboy4]

98. Oh but Jack, haven't you read the about.com information

that was provided to us?

I mean, you know how out of the loop we are when it comes to gay issues.

I'm just prayerful, as Obama would say, that Mzmolly continues to inform us about her backstabbing candidate.

I need to input all of the promises he's going to break into my blackberry.

[mzmolly]

100. My candidate is Edwards

just to be clear. I supported Dean in 2004 and worked for the Wellstone, Mondale campaign locally. I have yet to find a perfect candidate. Who's yours candidate of perfection?

[cboy4]

105. My candidate is John Edwards. Someone who doesn't

pander and back stab like Obama.

If Edwards is your candidate, why are you so busy supporting a "homophobe embracer" -- a person who certainly cannot be trusted because of that?

[mzmolly]

108. I support all the candidates. However Edwards is my number one.

And honestly, Edwards did pander, on the war and other issues. I'm being 'pandered' to and I know it. But, I believe that all of our candiates are basically 'good' and are worlds away from the competition.

I think anyone who has followed Edwards since 04 realizes he's 'changed' on a few things? In 04 when he spoke about his war vote, I swore I'd NEVER support him, but I realize he's not perfect, nor am I.

Peace I'm out - it's late. yawn...

Night. :hi:

[cboy4]

113. Interesting how being pinned into a corner and losing an

argument always seems to make people sleepy and think it's late.

Yawn Yawn. You're still losing.

Ha mzmolly?

[mzmolly]

128. Wishful thinking

cowboy.

[mzmolly]

104. His position/record on gay rights mirror Howard Dean's and other great progressives.

That's what I'm looking for as well. ;) But again, I support John Edwards - for now.

[cboy4]

110. You think this is all a joke mzmolly because none of this

affects your life.

How does Obama embracing a person who calls homosexuality evil and who says homosexuality is a choice affect you?

Wanna know how it affects me?

Straight people who hate gays say, "oh see look, even gay people agree that homosexuality is a choice, and oh look, even gay people admit that homosexuality is a sin.

"So why should I vote to afford civil liberties to a group of people, when even their own people concede their lifestyle is evil and they have the ability to choose to be straight?"

You can't comprehend how harmful people like McClurkin are to our cause and why we'd be furious with a presidential candidate associating themselves with someone like that?

I'd really like an answer mzmolly, because I predict you don't have the guts to answer.

[cboy4]

115. Not surprisingly:

********CRICKETS********

[mzmolly]

131. As I said, I went to bed.

Some people do that at 1:30am.

[mzmolly]

130. Bullcrap. I'm not going to post a list of how MY life is effected, however

are you suggesting no gays support Obama? You do know that there are several HERE.

How does Obama embracing a person who calls homosexuality evil and who says homosexuality is a choice affect you?

Wanna know how it affects me?

Straight people who hate gays say, "oh see look, even gay people agree that homosexuality is a choice, and oh look, even gay people admit that homosexuality is a sin.

And what does that mean in practical terms? What it means is that ignorant people will continue to exist with or without Donnie Mc and the gang.

"So why should I vote to afford civil liberties to a group of people, when even their own people concede their lifestyle is evil and they have the ability to choose to be straight?"

You can't comprehend how harmful people like McClurkin are to our cause and why we'd be furious with a presidential candidate associating themselves with someone like that?

"Our cause" is the human cause and it goes beyond gays, women, people of color, etc. Paul Wellstone voted for DOMA, Obama was opposed. Don't you feel that is more important than a freakish gospel singer who is mislead on the issue of so called sin?

I'd really like an answer mzmolly, because I predict you don't have the guts to answer.

You must have me confused with another?

[cboy4]

85. bwahahahahahahaha

:spray:

Nice try.

A link from about.com?

:rofl: Oh my sides.

[mzmolly]

88. A link from "Lesbian Life" at about.com

yes. If you take time to 'click' on it you might learn something?


Barack Obama and Gay Rights in Illinois: Barack Obama supported gay rights during his Illinois Senate tenure. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Barack Obama in the United States Senate: Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard.

Barack Obama on Hate Crimes: Barack Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation and gender identity.

Employment Non-Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and believes it should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

More at 'about.com'

[cboy4]

89. And you think I'm the one that needs to learn something?

:rofl: There go my sides again

[mzmolly]

92. Yep.

:eyes:

[cboy4]

97. Only a fool would trust he'd keep his promises regarding

those issues in wake of lovingly embracing a human being who is against all of that.

:eyes: back at ya

[Bluebear]

158. Oh my. Yes, you do need to be schooled, young man!

:rofl:

[JackBeck]

91. If he's pro-gay

than why did he choose to turn his back on our community by having his campaign support an "ex-gay" message?

Would you support Obama if he had David Duke speak at a rally?

[mzmolly]

99. Obama's voting record speaks for itself.

If Donnie McClurkin failed to find out that Obama -

wishes to overturn "don't ask don't tell," that he sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, that he scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard from the HRC, that he co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated against gays/lesbians, that he supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and believing that it should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity, that he believes gays and lesbians should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexuals, that he voted against a Federal Marriage Amendment, that he opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996, and that he supports civil unions,

before he appeared on stage with the good Senator, than he's an idiot - but we already knew that.

Obama did not suggest he'll become a homophobe because he shared a stage with a so called 'reformed gay man.' If anything, he'll help bring people around on this issue.

Peace out.

[JackBeck]

106. Seriously. What don't you get about how he shouldn't have done this in the first place?

If Obama was pro-gay to begin with, why did he pander to the homophobes? Why didn't he highlight his pro-gay agenda? Instead of offering the stage to an "ex-gay"?

[mzmolly]

132. I don't know that he vetted the speech before hand. He offered the stage to a gospel singer.

I care far more about what he'll do if elected than who rallied with him at an event.

[wiley]

116. Notice how website are getting hacked?

This really obnoxious computer attack seems to have occurred tonight. I get this naked woman in a Santa Clause hat at several Dem websites. Anyone else?

[cboy4]

117. WTF

?????????

[Divine Discontent]

122. lol... n/t

[Yuugal]

120. Link?

I'm running low on pics of naked women in santa gear. The "Lucky Rudolph" series was a mind blower. Will trade.

:smoke:

[ZombieHorde]

145. Have you seen this Luck Rudolf pic, it's my favorite.

Check it out, but you have been warned!

http://www.lucky-rudolph.de/

If you are a sick bastard (like me) there is a gallery link on the right.

[Freddie Stubbs]

125. No Democrat is going to get elected without the help of people like McClurkin

Like it or not, there are a significant number of Democrats like Donnie McClurkin. If those people stay home or vote Republican, you can kiss the White House goodbye.

[sampsonblk]

136. I second that-nt

[dionysus]

140. big crock 'o flame bait

[Lurking Dem]

144. That huge Black Gospel

voting block in Iowa really pushed him into the lead!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

146. Do you really care about gay people?

Or are you just using them to support your own homophobic candidate?

[Stop Cornyn]

149. OUCH!

[Politicub]

153. Obama sure stepped in it with the McClurkin embrace

I wonder if the loss of much of the gay vote will be worth the votes he picks up in SC?

[Alexander]

154. Didn't the 2004 elections show you that America is not exactly gay friendly?

In every state where gay marriage was on the ballot - even blue states - it lost. I voted against the 2006 ban in Arizona (which narrowly failed, thankfully) but I realize most of America, especially older and religious voters, is not on the same page.

At least Obama has a flawless Senate record regarding gay rights - which is not something most US Senators can say. And I trust him on gay rights FAR more than I trust any Republican.

Why didn't all the Obama haters bash Kerry, who said repeatedly that he was opposed to not only gay marriage but civil unions as well?

[KamaAina]

155. When exactly was McClurkin in Iowa?

I thought that that ill-conceived appearance had taken place in South Carolina. Did I miss something?

[CTLawGuy]

157. well if you believe

the republican candidate will be better on your issue of LGBT rights than Obama, please feel free to vote for that person.

Thanks and have a good night :hi: