Obama is a moderate masquerading as a progressive....

[rndmprsn]

yeah he "voted" against the war, but once i started to give him a second look...upon closer inspection this is what i found;

won't fight...wants to compromise on a whole range of issues

he believes in the theory of academic change...but won't fight for it, this is why obama will not get my vote and edwards will...

from the huff-post:

Then there's Barack "Consensus" Obama. It's hard to even take this seriously. In 2007 the Republicans in Congress killed, through technical filibusters, almost twice as many bills as any Congress ever has. For the last 7 years, George "I won the vote that matters 5-4" Bush has ruled the country by running rough-shod over the opposition party, giving them essentially nothing. There has been no consensus-driven voting or decision-making in the U.S. in 7 years, and there wasn't that much in the '90s, either. Oh, sure, I understand that Obama and many Americans would like to go back to the land of consensus-driven politics, where there's a center and where everyone works for what is best for America by splitting the difference. It's a pretty picture. But there's no middle left.

There's no room for splitting the difference between torturing and not torturing. There's no room for splitting the difference between selling illegal wars based on lies and not selling illegal wars based on lies. There's no room to split the difference between respecting the Constitution and not respecting the Constitution.

There's no middle left and anyone who thinks that the vast majority of Republican Senators will respond to good will is living in a world of denial. Nothing, absolutely nothing, in Republican behaviour in the last 7 years indicates that will happen. Just as nothing in the behaviour of oil companies and health insurers indicates they're interested in "compromise" when not compromising has done so very very well for them and taken them from victory to victory.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ian-welsh/the-edwards-imperative-b_b_79015.html

[cali]

1. you realize you gave zippo for evidence of your claim, right?

Well, probably not. Lazy parroting of Edwardian talking points isn't exactly persuasive to anyone but the Edwards fans.

[H2O Man]

2. Plus his

middle name is "Hillary." Think about what the republicans will do with that. Gosh.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. I thought he had a different last name. silly mois.

I heard he picked his toe nails once, too.

[IndianaJones]

4. nothing wrong with being a moderate. nt.

[Little Star]

13. Then why pretend to be something else? At least

I give Hillary credit for that. You see what you get right up front. She is my second choice and that is one of the reasons. As * would say "fool me once.........don't get fooled again".

[Vinca]

5. Dear Mods,

Is there any way the name of this board can be changed to the "Bash Obama Forum?" I just breezed through all the posts on the screen and that's about all there is. Are you people being paid overtime?

[skipos]

42. Obama isn't "my guy" but it is obvious he is a large threat to Clinton

hence all the silly anti-obama stuff we have seen lately.

[Lerkfish]

6. well, ok, then Clinton is a conservative masquerading as a moderate

as far as I'm concerned, the entire country shoved too far to the right with Reagan.
what we call "moderates" now were conservative back then, and what we call "conservatives" now are batshit crazy paranoid schizophrenic bloodthirsty neanderthals.

during the vietnam era, the lines were pretty clear: pro-war: conservative, anti-war: liberal.
now we have top contender democrats that are sticking to the idea of occupation of Iraq and further military actions in the region. wouldn't have even been imaginable back then for a democrat to act that way.

times change.

[cali]

7. Actually, not nearly as simplistic or formulaic as

you make it out to be. And of course it would help if you stuck with the facts- something you seem to have trouble with. Who was it who said, "Let's declare Victory (over the N. Vietnamese) and get out."? Oops, it was a fairly conservative republican.

And furthermore, all of the dem candidates say they oppose the occupation of Iraq, and any further military action in the region. And you're wrong about their not being democrats back then who were pro-military and military action. There always have been. Sam Nunn ring a bell?

[Lerkfish]

17. blah blah blah

I stated my opinion rather clearly.
disagree with it as you will.

[cali]

21. lol. as usual a very lame response from you when you're faced with

actual facts. You put forth OPINION as fact- and got called on it. So sad.

[Lerkfish]

26. when I clearly state "as far as I'm concerned" that's clearly my opinion

I can't help if your reading comprehension is lackluster.

[Lerkfish]

31. as usual, when you're faced with your poor reading skills

you evaporate.

so sad.

:)

[rndmprsn]

36. good one...i would agree actually

either way i'm mild about hillary and or/obama

[Sulawesi]

8. I am a progressive and a moderate...

...who should I vote for?

[wyldwolf]

10. the heart of a progressive, the mind of a moderate... "pragmatic liberal."

[wyldwolf]

9. as I've been saying, "Audacity of Hope" is the best DLC policy manual I've read...

... which isn't a bad thing to me. But I'm just saying...

He compliments Clinton's third way approach to politics. He takes conservative's side on a few things. His disses '60s era liberals. He expresses approval of the 90s welfare reform. He advocates private social security companion accounts, free market capitalism, the global economy, and slams single issue advocacy group's influence on Democratic politics... ALL things the DLC have been touting for almost 20 years.

If he had another decade of experience under his belt, he'd be the perfect candidate for me.

[Sulawesi]

11. If he has all that right, what would a decade of experience get him...

...I have a little bit of leadership experience, and it is almost always a good move to "rob the cradle" and put the younger natural leaders in charge.

[wyldwolf]

12. well, he hasn't shown me he's a "natural leader."

More experience would net him more experience. Experience matters. He's shown himself to be a good speaker with good policy ideas. Experience would give him the knowledge to flesh those ideas out and implement them against potentially hostile opposition (from the right and the left.)

If he were elected now, he'd almost have to surround himself with experienced Washington insider policy wonks - which is exactly what he claims he doesn't want to do.

On edit: I find it amazing that many of the same DUers who used to post weekly "Fuck the DLC" posts have latched onto this guy. It shows me that many of Obama's supporters either don't understand him or don't understand the DLC.

[Sulawesi]

19. I guess we just disagree on the leadership thing...

...there is no problem surrounding yourself with wonks as long as you express your leadership. That is in fact how you run an organization responsibly, but with vision...just my opinion...

[cascadiance]

27. Thanks for pointing out how he's NOT the candidate for the core base of the Democratic Party!

We need someone that isn't about the "ownership" society! That is what is destroying the middle class now and "trickling us down" to a major depression unless something FDR-style is done soon! Hillary has the same problem.

Bipartisan DLC-style would say that the bankruptcy bill is a good thing:
- the Corporations like it.
- the People don't
(therefore their "bipartisan" approach must say it is a good thing)

Traditional "bipartisan" approach would say that the bankruptcy bill is a bad thing:
- screws over many Democrats *PEOPLE*.
- screws over many Republican *PEOPLE*.
(therefore traditionally defined "bipartisan" approach says its a bad thing)

It is many issues like this that we get pushed to corporatist's side through worlds like "moderate", "bipartisan", "centrist", "compromising", which is only about trying to put in the corporate agenda and making it sound like it's "good" to the people, when it isn't.

[wyldwolf]

28. "core" base? What exactly is that?

[Deja Q]

39. 'compliments' or 'complements'?

As for the 'global economy' and 'flat world' and all, once all costs are the same (including cost of living, which is making Indians and Chinese happy while the rest of the world continues to sulk, what having made the system they are profiting from when otherwise hoping the West will get its comeuppance) will we be as flat as they claim.

[jefferson_dem]

14. This is a hunk of tripe masquerading as an OP.

Bah.

[DemKR]

15. yes

[Vickers]

16. So, who are you FOR? And why should I vote for THEM?

:shrug:

State your case...convince me.

[Lerkfish]

18. here's how you can tell who they're for:

If they're making attacks on Obama or Edwards, process of elimination should tell you.

[MalloyLiberal]

20. Anyone that has breakfast with Karl Rove and George Bush the day after the 2004 election is a Neocon

[cali]

23. wtf are you talking about now?

Want to provide some link? Was this a Congressional breakfast that virtually everyone went to? A private breakfast? What?

[NYCGirl]

24. You mean the freshman Senators' breakfast? NT

[redqueen]

34. Hahahahahhaha...

that'd be funny if that's what they were referring to. :D

[progressoid]

22. It's not a masquerade.

I think he is a moderate. Certainly his campaign is courting the moderate vote.

[NYCGirl]

25. I remember hearing that constantly about Howard Dean in 04. Some things

never change.

[laureloak]

29. Obama is all talk - no action. n/t

[DangerDave921]

30. No

Obama is a Muslim from Africa who is posing as an American citizen, and who is secretly planning to impose Sharia law on the US if elected POTUS. Don't you follow the MSM??? :)

[BringBigDogBack]

32. you've got that backwards

but what do you know?

[redqueen]

33. I would have gone with the original title...

"The Edwards Imperative: Because The Politics Of Compromise Have Failed"

But yes, I agree that the politics of compromise have failed...

[Carrieyazel]

35. Obama's definitely a mainstream liberal Democrat. The problem with him is: All Talk: No Action.

The suggestion that he's a "moderate" is incorrect.

[AtomicKitten]

37. His record begs to differ.

[Adelante]

38. Obama's illinois legislative record - just a sample

[Adelante]

40. Some progressive ratings

Americans for Democratic Action (ADA) (from 2001-2006)
http://www.adaction.org/votingrecords.htm

Obama 97.5
Clinton 95.8
Dodd 94.1
Biden 91.6
Edwards 82.5

National Journal
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/06democrats.pdf

Obama 84.3
Dodd 79.2
Clinton 78.8
Biden 76.8
Edwards 75.7

Progressive Punch (lifetime)
http://www.progressivepunch.org /

Clinton 92%
Obama 90%
Dodd 87%
Biden 84%

[hedgehog]

41. The OP doesn't make much sense in the examples given.

Obama has been flat out opposed to torture with no wiggle words like stressful interrogation or suggestions that we might have a "24" situation.

[Czolgosz]

43. kick

[fightindonkey]

44. His Record Is More To The Right Than Hillary's

Consistently shown and exposed, but who cares, he has fangurls who will overlook anything for the man with no experience. No experience = Nothing not to really like, not actual decisions.