For Biden, it's the resume over the rallying cry

[PatSeg]

MASON CITY, Iowa - As Joe Biden lingered after his speech at Northern Iowa Area Community College, a man leaned in and asked for Biden's ultimate sales pitch - the one thing he could say on caucus night to lure friends from better-funded, more famous candidates to support the senator from Delaware.

Biden uncharacteristically paused for a moment, then characteristically launched into a story, about a moment early in his long senatorial career when a fellow legislator humiliated him during a debate on oil-extraction methods for not knowing what "stripper-well mining" was.

The story's moral, Biden told his supporter, was the key to his appeal. "To convince people you know how to lead, you have to first convince them you know what you're talking about," Biden said.

When Biden first ran for president in 1988 at age 44, he was the Democrats' candidate of passion, an idealist calling upon his generation to seize its moment to change politics - and often dismissed as a lightweight for it. "I was the Barack Obama!" he marveled over mozzarella sticks, spaghetti, and Coke at a Mason City sports bar.

This time, lost in a race centered on the relative merits of experience and vision, Biden is emphasizing a less inspirational quality: expertise. Unlike New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson and Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd, two other candidates struggling for recognition, Biden does not dwell on the positions he has held or the time he has served. Instead, he turns to constant and conspicuous displays of his knowledge and contacts.


It's a long, but interesting article. More here: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/12/12/for_biden_its_the_rsum_over_the_rallying_cry/?page=1

[youthere]

1. This is why we MUST have Biden in the White House.

It's the EXPERIENCE stupid!

[1corona4u]

2. Ditto...

and it really cracks me up, when people, and the media, allude to Biden as "bragging" about himself, and his accomplishments.

This man, has earned the right to brag.

[Kucinich4America]

5. Here's one thing Joe can't brag about.

No, not the bankruptcy bill.....

http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm

Has Joe ever explained why he signed a PNAC document?? :wtf:

[IronLionZion]

6. Because Democracy in Russia would be a good thing?

:shrug: So the chairman of the foreign relations committee signed a letter about foreign relations. What exactly is the problem? Please tell us.

[Kucinich4America]

16. The problem is PNAC

What the Hell was Joe thinking, collaborating with those treasonous bastards on any level??

[IronLionZion]

28. all up in it loving it strong

Why in the world would a supposed Kucinich supporter use red herrings to attack anyone, let alone a fellow Democratic presidential candidate? Bidenites don't hijack other candidates' threads to attack them. That's been our unofficial policy from the beginning.

[NI4NI]

30. No PNAC fan here

actually I despise neo-cons for the harm they've done and for the American/Iraqi blood on their hands.
However, in light of Putin's undemocratic policies, (despite that Chucklenutz looked into his heart/soul) their concerns must have been legitimate enough for Biden, and for Richard Holbrooke, Madeleine Albright, and John McCain to sign it also; Not one of whom I'd ever consider treasonous

[rucky]

38. 'zactly.

If he had signed any of the other PNAC dreck, I'd have some serious misgivings.

This is an example of how NOT acting - based on principle - can shoot yourself in the foot. The content of this statement - no matter where it came from - is proper policy - especially in light of Putin's recent antics. Not supporting the content based on who else signed it doesn't mean he's in the neocon club. It means that he agrees with the statement he signed - nothing more.

[1corona4u]

51. Exactly, he is not a "signatory" TO PNAC, as was suggested...

he signed ONE letter, regarding Russia. Biden has ALWAYS spoken out about/against Russia.

Here is a copy of the letter:

"An Open Letter to the Heads of State and Government
Of the European Union and NATO
September 28, 2004


As citizens of the Euro-Atlantic community of democracies, we wish to express our sympathy and solidarity with the people of the Russian Federation in their struggle against terrorism. The mass murderers who seized School No. 1 in Beslan committed a heinous act of terrorism for which there can be no rationale or excuse. While other mass murderers have killed children and unarmed civilians, the calculated targeting of so many innocent children at school is an unprecedented act of barbarism that violates the values and norms of our community and which all civilized nations must condemn.


At the same time, we are deeply concerned that these tragic events are being used to further undermine democracy in Russia. Russia's democratic institutions have always been weak and fragile. Since becoming President in January 2000, Vladimir Putin has made them even weaker. He has systematically undercut the freedom and independence of the press, destroyed the checks and balances in the Russian federal system, arbitrarily imprisoned both real and imagined political rivals, removed legitimate candidates from electoral ballots, harassed and arrested NGO leaders, and weakened Russia's political parties. In the wake of the horrific crime in Beslan, President Putin has announced plans to further centralize power and to push through measures that will take Russia a step closer to authoritarian regime.


We are also worried about the deteriorating conduct of Russia in its foreign relations. President Putin's foreign policy is increasingly marked by a threatening attitude towards Russia's neighbors and Europe's energy security, the return of rhetoric of militarism and empire, and by a refusal to comply with Russia's international treaty obligations. In all aspects of Russian political life, the instruments of state power appear to be being rebuilt and the dominance of the security services to grow. We believe that this conduct cannot be accepted as the foundation of a true partnership between Russia and the democracies of NATO and the European Union.


These moves are only the latest evidence that the present Russian leadership is breaking away from the core democratic values of the Euro-Atlantic community. All too often in the past, the West has remained silent and restrained its criticism in the belief that President Putin's steps in the wrong direction were temporary and the hope that Russia would soon return to a democratic and pro-Western path. Western leaders continue to embrace President Putin in the face of growing evidence that the country is moving in the wrong direction and that his strategy for fighting terrorism is producing less and less freedom. We firmly believe dictatorship will not and cannot be the answer to Russia's problems and the very real threats it faces.


The leaders of the West must recognize that our current strategy towards Russia is failing. Our policies have failed to contribute to the democratic Russia we wished for and the people of this great country deserve after all the suffering they have endured. It is time for us to rethink how and to what extent we engage with Putin's Russia and to put ourselves unambiguously on the side of democratic forces in Russia. At this critical time in history when the West is pushing for democratic change around the world, including in the broader Middle East, it is imperative that we do not look the other way in assessing Moscow's behaviour or create a double standard for democracy in the countries which lie to Europe's East. We must speak the truth about what is happening in Russia. We owe it to the victims of Beslan and the tens of thousands of Russian democrats who are still fighting to preserve democracy and human freedom in their country."




I'm sorry, I see this as a NON issue. SO what.

[1corona4u]

7. Same shit, different day...you DK supporters are like stale bread...

Has DK explained why HE forced Cleveland into BK, because of his inability to find a rational solution?

Or, has DK ever explained his piss poor record of being able to get anything done in the house?



Kucinich sponsored 102 bills since Jan 7, 1997, of which 93 (91%) haven't made it out of committee and 1 were successfully enacted.



I have one word for DK. LOSER.

[Kucinich4America]

17. The day that Dennis Kucinich signs a PNAC document

then you can condemn him for doing so. The fact that Biden collaborated with those treasonous fascists has nothing to do with Dennis.

[1corona4u]

23. Whatever...

Dennis is.....so irrelevant. He continually tries to make people think he is important, but, he's not.



Here's one of the reasons;

Shirley MacLaine claims Kucinich had UFO encounter
Tuesday, October 23, 2007
Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich has claimed to have seen a UFO, according to Shirley MacLaine in her new book, "Sage-Ing While Age-Ing."

Kucinich "had a close sighting over my home in Graham, Washington, when I lived there," the actress, a close Kucinich friend, wrote. "Dennis found his encounter extremely moving. The smell of roses drew him out to my balcony where, when he looked up, he saw a gigantic triangular craft, silent, and observing him.

"It hovered, soundless, for 10 minutes or so, and sped away with a speed he couldn't comprehend. He said he felt a connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind."

Kucinich's campaign and congressional representatives did not return calls and e-mail asking whether the Cleveland Democrat, now in his sixth congressional term, in fact saw a UFO or if there was some other explanation for MacLaine's recollection.

MacLaine is a well-known believer of UFOs and reincarnation. And she has been close to Kucinich for decades. MacLaine is the godmother of Kucinich's daughter and attended Kucinich's 2005 Cleveland wedding to third wife, Elizabeth, who's often campaigning by his side.

MacLaine also recommended in the 1980s that Kucinich visit New Mexico spiritual adviser Chris Griscom, whom MacLaine featured in her then-best-selling book, "Dancing in the Light," describing how Griscom helped her communicate with trees. Kucinich has insisted that Griscom was not his spiritual adviser but a "teacher and a very good friend."

http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1193128634148360.xml&coll=2



I wonder what he was smoking?

[PatSeg]

14. This thread is about the above article

If you wish to discuss bankruptcy or PNAC, please start another thread. I don't go to DK threads and start arguments. There is enough negativity around here. Lets try and have an intelligent discourse.

:)

[Kucinich4America]

19. PNAC is a dealbreaker.

The original membership of PNAC are the ones who planned the entire invasion and occupation of Iraq years in advance. And, by the words of their own document, which calls for a "new Pearl Harbor", may have planned far more than that.

I knew all of this in September 2001. I find it hard to believe that the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations committee did not. Why is Joe Biden associating himself with these war criminals? And yes it is relevant, because it addresses the larger question of whether Joe Biden is a good candidate to be President of the United States. And, by associating with PNAC, I would say that he is NOT.

Don't bring Dennis into this. He didn't sign any PNAC documents.

[PatSeg]

20. I'm not trying to convert you

If that is a "dealbreaker" for you, that's fine.

[1corona4u]

52. Again, he signed ONE letter. See my post above.

[WheelWalker]

37. Yea, what she said!

[ginchinchili]

21. What in that letter do you disagree with?

Biden is a pragmatist. He's always looking for a way to move the ball forward. It's just more challenging when the Repubs are in power, as I'm assuming they were when this was signed, but that's beside the point.

[Kucinich4America]

39. Let's say that it's 1942, and you are presented with a letter by Nazi Germany.

Let's say you happen to agree with what's in the letter. Would you sign it?

Of course not, because the goals and agenda of the Nazis were pretty well established by that time. Just as the goals and agenda of PNAC were apparent to anyone paying attention by the time Biden signed that letter. And that goes for McCain, Albright, and Holbrooke as well. Not to mention DLC founder Will Marshall, who also signed this piece of shit.

Speaking analogously, it's one thing to side with Hitler when he's building the Autobahn and creating Volkswagens, but another thing altogether to do so after the Reichstag fell and countries have been invaded, based on that lie and others.

There is nothing "pragmatic" about siding with war criminals, and it disturbs me to see that being defended here.

[1corona4u]

41. Well...

I did look over the site, and while much of it may be of concern to a few, I see nothing wrong with it, if you look at the mission statement;



Our aim is to remind Americans of these lessons and to draw their consequences for today. Here are four consequences:

• we need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global
responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future;


• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;


• we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad;


• we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.

Such a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity may not be fashionable today. But it is necessary if the United States is to build on the successes of this past century and to ensure our security and our greatness in the next.




So, what am I missing here that is so offensive?

[Kucinich4America]

43. What's so offensive??????

If you even have to ask that question, I think you took a wrong turn in FResno.... :puke:

[1corona4u]

46. I'm an independent...

I always look at both sides of an issue,(pro/con) and decide where the middle ground it. This is a give and take game. Unfortunately, DK thinks he doesn't have to give anything. Which is why he will never be president. And, that mentality is absorbed, and projected by his supporters as well.

[Kucinich4America]

49. There is no "middle ground" with fascists.

Would you have tried to find middle ground with Hitler??

And before someone objects to the comparison, I'm talking methods and tactics here, not body counts. Although the PNAC body count may well be over a million by now, if the truth were known... :(

[1corona4u]

53. Stupid comparison.....

I mean, really. You're starting to sound very irrational. It was one letter...one....which is posted above...

You're just talking shit, probably on your employers time too. That's all you have done through this entire thread. I'm done with you, as trying to get you to UNDERSTAND that it was ONE letter, and that HE did NOT conspire to do anything with PNAC, nor was he a signatory, is an exercise in FUTILITY.

[PatSeg]

3. And the ability to put his vast knowledge

into action.

[bdamomma]

25. biden shouldn't be kicked to the curb, he deserves to be listened to

he would hit the ground running, and that's what we need. I give him credit to clean up after these thugs.

[Apollo11]

4. "General Musharaf knows my number"

Apparently Biden thinks this one is a deal-clincher.

He was even sure to mention it in his 30-second TV ad I posted over on the Political Videos forum.

Not sure why Musharaf trumps Oprah. I mean - isn't this guy a military dictator? :eyes:

Just sayin' ...

[1corona4u]

9. Yeah, well, it would seem to me...

that IF someone wanted to make progress, in a hostile country, it'd be an advantage to have an open communication with the dictator of said country....so, Yeah, Musharraf trumps Oprah, since Oprah doesn't seem to be IN possession of nuclear weapons.



Just saying......

[murbley40]

31. If you can't figure out why Musharraf calling Biden

would trump Oprah calling Biden, then........ I mean I'm just saying.......:shrug:

[1corona4u]

32. Yeah really...

unbelievable isn't it.

[PatSeg]

15. The situation in Pakistan affects us and the rest of the world

Being able to communicate with world leaders contributes to the peace and stability of the entire planet. Also Musharaf is supposedly an ally of the U.S.

[IronLionZion]

27. Did that make sense in your mind when you typed it?

World leaders talk to the Senate foreign relations committee chairman before talking to anyone in the president's administration. Maybe it's because he's a more intelligent person to talk to. Maybe it's because he's a Democrat.

Either way, Musharraf is not calling to support Biden's candidacy so why the comment about Oprah, who is an American celebrity supporting Barack Obama?

[Apollo11]

33. He talked to Biden before he talked to Bush. But maybe Condi was first?

Do we know for sure he talked to Biden before talking to anyone in the Bush Administration?

Do we know if Musharaf called Biden or maybe it was the other way around?

I guess it's no big deal - except that Joe keeps mentioning it all the time.

[IronLionZion]

34. Biden called Musharraf and Bhutto, before Condi did

and Musharraf, Olmert, and many other world leaders do call Biden before talking to anyone in the Bush admin. I don't blame them. I'd rather talk to Biden any day.

[Apollo11]

36. You know what the worst news in the world would be?

"Vice-President Cheney is on the line from Washington. He wants to speak with you urgently."

There's no DU smilie quite captures it.

[Apollo11]

35. CORRECTION: "General Musharraf takes my calls"

Apparently Joe called the General, not the other way around.

Of course, whoever is President, I guess other countries' leaders will have to take their calls.

Biden is saying that he already knows a lot of these leaders who have been around a long time.

I guess it counts in his favor.

Just imagine ANY of the other candidates trying to talk tough with the leaders of Russia or China.

They would need extra interpreters specially trained to penetrate Edwards' accent! ;-)

[sniffa]

8. i just finished reading this over coffee

it's a good piece. :thumbsup:

it's good to see the "lower tiers" get their own profiles in the globe.

k&r

[PatSeg]

12. Thanks

All the candidates should get coverage. I don't want the media picking our nominee.

[1corona4u]

10. Judging by all of the Biden attacks....

I'd say some people are feeling threatned....GOOD.

[PatSeg]

13. The front runners are attacked on a regular basis too

It's politics and that's the way its been as long as I can remember. We need to not take it personally and focus on what we believe. :hi:

[ginchinchili]

22. But I think the attacks will get worse...

the more people realize that Biden is the strongest candidate, and any objective analysis will reach the same conclusion: Biden is the strongest candidate currently running in either Party.

[IronLionZion]

29. bring it

I'm curious to see what they have other than the well-beaten dead horses of bankruptcy, imaginary credit card industry support, his hair after two surgeries, and forgetting to cite Neil Kinnock's speech once.

The PNAC letter was refreshing only because it is new.

[Kucinich4America]

40. I could care less about his hair plugs or a 20 year old plagarism allegation

Obviously he supports MBNA for the same reason that Maria Cantwell supports Boeing, and the bankruptcy thing is indeed disturbing because it favors billionaires over those who struggle to get by, and it's not like the credit card thieves were going to go out of business because people weren't forced to pay 30% interest for the rest of their lives.

Those things I would be willing to let Biden explain himself on.

Siding with fascist war criminals (PNAC) after their agenda has been exposed to the entire world is a little more difficult to forgive.

Some would rather turn on Dennis Kucinich (just because he's in my avatar and screen name) or on myself, rather than ask why Joe did such a thing. But neither Dennis nor myself collaborated with PNAC.

Do you honestly believe there is a justification for siding with the likes of Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Podhoretz, and the rest of those scumbags?

[1corona4u]

42. Yawwwwwnnnnnn...

why don't you just move on...I don't think anyone is interested in what you're selling.


Oh, and yes, I posted yo your last question above.

You DK supporters really need to chill out. You come off as very radical, and truly irrational.

[Kucinich4America]

44. And after your previous "what's wrong with PNAC?" response?

You come off as either clueless or fr....ustratingly misinformed.

[1corona4u]

48. As do you.

[Kucinich4America]

50. How is that?

Because I want the constitution and democracy restored in this country?

I will not allow one ounce of legitimacy to PNAC, and I will not vote for anybody who does.

[PatSeg]

55. And Biden knows this

He's been in politics a long time and he is prepared for it, even if we aren't.

[Steely_Dan]

11. Experience, Experience, Experience

There is nothing that trumps experience. Go Joe!

-Paige

[gateley]

18. Excellent article -- I enjoyed reading it. Thanks! nt

[Marrah_G]

24. He seems to me to be the most Wise of the bunch

And I truly believe above all else we need WISDOM in the WH.

[NI4NI]

26. BINGO!!!

experience is a must, but it's the wisdom learned and used from it that's important.

[adapa]

45. We've seen where 'regular guy' got us

I actually agree with Obama, it is time for a change from the populist drivel to a smart person. I want some one smarter then me in the white house, not someone I'd get drunk with.

[1corona4u]

47. Or snort coke with.....right?

[whirlygigspin]

56. oooh corona!

glad we're on the same side!

: )

[PatSeg]

57. He really does stand out from the rest

He has the experience, knowledge, and good judgment to make the many difficult choices the next president will have to address.

[K Gardner]

54. I absolutely love this article.. thanks for posting !

[murbley40]

58. kick