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Yeah, single payer is a health INSURANCE system, so fucking what?

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 01:42 PM
Original message
Yeah, single payer is a health INSURANCE system, so fucking what?
Seriously, I don't get this debate between "care" and "insurance", the point of a single payer system is to be able to cover all the costs of medical care, leave the care itself to those who know it best, doctors and nurses and let's leave the financing to the pencil pushers, OK?

The advantages of having a single payer plan are enormous, and cannot be ignored. First things first, everyone already pays into a system very similar to this, Medicare, basically all we need to do is expand Medicare to cover everyone, such as under H.R. 676, and then, perhaps later on, roll up the other public plans under the Medicare system, to eliminate any gaps in coverage, such as long term care and homes, etc.

The goal of any public health care plan should be to reduce costs as much as possible without affecting care. The best way to do that is to reduce the bureaucracies that exist to deal with the financing aspect of the health care system. We have literally hundreds, thousands, of organizations that deal with health insurance, and that's just a waste of money, an inefficiency in the system. Because of this, we have enormous costs, as much as 2 trillion dollars, to finance our health care system, yet we have millions of Americans that can't even see the doctor unless they decide not to pay the rent or groceries that month.

A single payer system, at the very least, can make sure that no one in America would have to make such a choice. This is important, because, for all the rhetoric about the importance of preventative care in reducing costs, that doesn't mean jack shit to a low income family that can't afford to go to the doctor without going hundreds of dollars in debt. They won't go to the doctor, hell, I haven't been to the doctor in years, I could be dying of cancer right now, and don't know it, simply because I can't afford to have it checked. Granted, that's unlikely, with my age and health, but its just an example.

The point that I think everyone is missing is that we need health care that is affordable, not so much on the individual level, but nationally. What good is a private/public hybrid system if it actually INCREASES costs nationally? That can actually be worse than not trying at all, such a system would FAIL, and could set back health care reform by decades, at the very least.

The reason I'm for a single payer system is that its the most economical system to ensure maximum coverage at the lowest costs. Other nations with similar systems pay a fraction of the costs that the United States does for their health care systems, that's something we should learn from. A single payer system maximizes the risk pool, because its paid for by everyone, through federal taxes, and could be paid for through a progressive tax structure, to minimize burdens on low income families. In addition, there are fewer gaps, if someone gets laid off from a job, and is unemployed, that wouldn't affect their health care coverage at all, they can still get the medications or treatment they need without increasing any debts they have.

The argument that the United States is somehow unique and that a single payer system can't work here is foolish. First, it has never really been tried, so how the fuck would we know? Second, the United States is the most powerful economy and richest nation on Earth, if we can't make such a system work here, then all those other nations that do have systems like this should have had those systems collapse years ago.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. K&R (now if people would only actually READ your post! ) n/t
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. k&r
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks K&R, an important point you make here...
Edited on Mon Dec-10-07 01:53 PM by slipslidingaway
"...A single payer system maximizes the risk pool..."

Instead of leaving the most needy and costly (seniors) under the government plan and the less needy under the private plans who are then able to maximize profits.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Exactly, the best way to reduce costs is to include everyone, from the most sickly and vulnerable...
to the most healthy individuals and gainfully employed.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Yes and it is an easy concept to grasp, we really need to use
the for profit money to help everyone :)

Great explanation!
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Some months ago, I did calculations on how much a single payer system would cost us...
on an individual level, long story short, if every taxpayer paid a flat tax, or equal premium, on Medicare for all, it would be somewhere around 98 dollars a month. Considering the average insurance premium is 3 times that, that's a 2/3rds savings. Make the tax structure progressive, and low and middle income people would pay practically nothing, in taxes or premiums, with no deducts, co-pays, or any of that shit. Then again, I also was able to balance the federal budget with some other private calculations at the same time, but I swear, I think I got a brain cramp looking at all those numbers.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. LOL, well I would not have even tried to look at all those numbers!
And I remember reading that health care expenditures would be at the 4 Trillion level in the not too distant future, 2015 +/- ??? That is quite a bit of money going to the for profit companies that we need for health care especially with the number of people moving to Medicare and the health care costs of veterans.

Thanks for your calculations :) we can do better.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
Mandatory Private Health Insurance is NOT a HealthCare Plan.
It is welfare for some of the richest CEOs in the World.



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm so excited about this ad, sorry if you've alredy seen it..
run in Iowa by my nurse's union, who refuse to endorse any of the "top three's" healthcare mandates

http://www.calnurses.org/assets/pdf/cheney_print_ad_121007.pdf
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Exactly!!


Mandatory Private Health Insurance is NOT a HealthCare Plan.
It is welfare for some of the richest CEOs in the World.
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. k&r. Damn right. Sweet post.
:applause:
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-10-07 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. Actually, I think we DO need affordable care on the individual level.
That's "universal."

The "not-for-profit" part is key for me. That's how we make it affordable on a national level.
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