Many Channels Carrying One Signal: Democrats Awake! Rise up!Chose Victory!

[WiseMen]

Recent Public Opinion Poll on campaign issues are sending a signal.

The Dec. 20 WP/ABC poll shows growing approval rating for Bush and a huge spike in support for going to war in Iraq. On Iraq, 60% said they approve of how he is dealing with events there.

The Dec. 21 CBS News Poll shows that Bush would beat Governor Howard Dean by 55% to 35%, that is. By 20 percentage points.

Now the new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll finds terrorism at the top of the list when Americans are asked to rate the importance of several issues to their vote for president next year.

Nearly half, 48%, say terrorism will be extremely important to their vote, and an additional 40% say it will be very important. That is 88% of the voting public.

Other polls that rate President Bush give him high marks in his handling of terrorism.

What is the message? Undoubtedly, the jolly Republican Media manipulators are going to suggest that:

Dean needs to deliver a strong speech attacking terrorism. Or
Dean needs to announce an anti-terrorism advisory group. Or
Dean needs to be more circumspect in his criticism of the President

Etc.
Etc.

It is like some hypnotic spell or potent tranquilizer at work.

The big-Media powers will never let on what all the facts should obviously be signaling: that the Democratic Party needs to totally, unabashedly and decisively reject a Howard Dean nomination if it is to have any hope of winning the General Election in November, 2004. The party need to choose a nominee with enormous strength in the area of national security. All other candidates are irrelevant.

Yet that uncomfortable message is being masked and clouded by casual and nonchalant campaign reports in the major media. What is a looming disaster for the Democrats is being treated as a matter of mild interest or good entertainment at best.

What is even more distressing for many democrats is that we do have candidates that could challenge Bush in these dominant issues. Either General Wesley Clark or Senator John Kerry would fit the bill.

My preferred candidate is John Kerry, who not only has a record of honorable military service (Silver Star, Bronze Star, 3 Purple Hearts), but has been deeply involved in the relevant foreign policy and national security issues for the past 2 decades.

Most recently, Gary Hart who co-chaired the U.S. Commission on National Security/ 21st Century (which issued three public reports forecasting the age of terrorism and outlined a new, post-Cold War national security policy) described Kerry and “Head and Shoulders” above the other candidates on the issue of leadership in the new global security environment, and has begun speaking out for Kerry in public forums.

Kerry, himself is know to have argued strenuously with Democratic colleagues for a proactive U.S. foreign policy to address world humanitarian crises, WMD proliferation, and global terrorism. In his book, “The New War,” (1997), Kerry pulled together and published his insights from 3 terms on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a decade as Chairman or Ranking Member of the Senate Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics and International Operations.

Kerry argued forcefully for a realignment of U.S. military and intelligence posture to defend against new threats to U.S. global interests and national infrastructure and called for urgent preemptive executive action, warning: "It will take only one mega-terrorist event in any of the great cities of the world to change the world in a single day."

The Democrats have a candidate sent for our time to lead and win the desperate battle to break the grip of a despicable Republican cabal on the reigns of power in our country.

Yet the Media has embroiled us in debates regarding Dean foibles, misstatements, religion, record, Internet strategy, genius campaign manager, etc. etc. etc. Is this not a tragic waste? Is there some mysterious force at work here? Can someone tell me whats going on?

Fellow Democrats. Awake! Rise up and choose victory. It is not too late.

[RandomKoolzip]

1. *yawn*

Sorry, Dean's still got my vote. It's not even 2004 yet, and these numbers will change.

[polpilot]

34. Kerry gets the long awaited GARY HART ENDORSEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dean '04...No more Monkey Business!!

[Raya]

81. What a silly slander. Dean style? This a good post, admit it.

[truthspeaker]

2. that's right! Dean has no credibility on national security!

Because... er, he just doesn't, dammit!

[janx]

9. But Kerry and Clark have the balls, the armor, and the

ammo to effectively fight the war on terra.

[adadem]

46. That's right!

[janx]

53. I knew you would agree!

It's ballz to the wallz! It's tanks and it's ammo!

GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!GO!

We need more film footage of cammo and soldiers and tanks!

[shivaji]

73. Dean is against the attack on Iraq, NOT war on terrorism

Everyday more body bags are coming home. Iraq is a quagmire by any definition. 8 months after Baghdad fell, the end is nowhere in sight.

Dean was absolutely right. There was no urgent need to attack Iraq without full participation of UN. The longer this Iraq quagmire drags on, the better Dean is looking.

Inspite of the media bashing and attacks by the other dem candidates, DEAN IS WAY AHEAD OF THE PACK. Goes to show how smart Dean and his campaign staff is.

If Dean chooses sen Graham of Florida or a someone equivalent, he will be immune to any attacks about weak on foreign policy.

[Raya]

75. Please List the Anti-War Marches Dean Led before his Campaign Gimmick

I know Kerry, Kucinich, Sharpton all have activist records. Never heard of Dean before he took over the movement.

[bearfartinthewoods]

76. hijacked....

[shivaji]

80. Let me repeat.....Dean is not blanket anti-war, he was and is against

the timetable and urgency which Bush & gang perpetrated on us by attacking Iraq without full cooperation and agreement from United Nations.

Dean is NOT weak on war against terrorism. He would prefer that we concentrate our blood and treasure on fighting Al-Qaeda & Osama Bin Laden than a essentially secular despot like Saddam Hussein. Makes perfect sense to me.

[windansea]

3. Nice post

as always...very well written :thumbsup:

squabbling over who did or did not support IWR may well be irrelevant to the public come next November...

continued TV coverage of worldwide incidents of suicide bombers will focus the public on one issue...are we safe?

IMO the 2004 GE catch phrase will be "it's the bombs stupid"

[Padraig18]

4. You're right--it's not too late!

DEAN in '04!

[HFishbine]

5. Read this, and get back to us

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/29/column.shields.opinion.perspective/

Thanks to DUer dajabr.

[WiseMen]

32. Dean Could Win, by some Happy Accident. But Don't You Want a Rout!

Unless we trample on the Repubs from coast to coast the win will be hollow with Republicans controling the Congress and Bush's policies fixed in place. Friends, lets go for the gold.

[bowens43]

33. Hollow in what way?

I hate to tell you this but the president doesn't get to exercise more power if he gets more votes. It's win or lose.

[HFishbine]

50. See the thing is

I never followed a Kerry campaign before this one. I hear he's had some great ones. But, with what I've seen, I don't find Kerry particularly inspirational and it seems I'm not alone. I'd vote for him, but the energy, excitement and momentum are not there. We need more than a resume to beat Bush.

[Brian_Expat]

6. So we should let Bush and media pick our candidate for us?

And just stop talking about other issues like the economy, jobs, health care, and Bush's failed record on national security and foreign affairs that ANY of the nine candidates could beat?

Give me a break.

I am tired of this insistence that we should let the Republicans (and the pundits) frame the debate for us.

Incidentally, the Newsweek poll of the same period says the EXACT OPPOSITE of what your poll says -- it says people care more about jobs and the economy than terrorism. Which poll should I believe -- the one that favors your candidate, or the one that favors mine?

How about focusing on the issues instead, and leaving the gassing to the pundits?

[blm]

7. How about dealing with issues and not Dean's gaffes?

The media IS forcing Dean down our throats and have been since last February.

[Padraig18]

8. Awwww

:nopity:

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. Is THAT why

I have been having those nightmares of some guy SCREEEEEAMING at me and pointing his finger in my face? He keeps saying something like....

"YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!" YOU HAVE THE POWER!" "YOU HAVE THE POWER!"


over and over and over and over and over. :boring::boring::boring::boring:

No wonder!

It's MORE than obvious who the media wants to be the nominee. KKKRove's pick, of course.

[Brian_Expat]

12. Well, if you are going to select the candidate

Based on the rallying cry in the last thirty seconds of a 20 minute speech, and ignore the content of his policy, that's your choice. Just don't tell me it's "smart strategy." Some of us actually care about real issues, not just the media pundits' assessments of "electability."

Besides, I like "having the power," and think that ordinary citizens with power are far preferable to media whores and Republicans with power. ;)

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. FYI...

I USE to be a Dean supporter. I wasted $500.00 donating to his campaign. I attended the Wisconsin Democratic Convention/rally in support of him and attended (wasted my time) 5 Dean Meetups. I've heard him speak. I've seen him in person. I have a ton of pictures of him that I took and I am MORE than "aware" of his issues. That's why I'm a Clark supporter.

Go Wes!

[Brian_Expat]

44. Well, I remain a Dean supporter

After being a Kerry supporter.

Because I have seen Dean in action in a really tough, controversial election, and he's the only candidate in the crowd who has won such an election with evil right-wing attacks AND a Green-style candidate running to his left. The other candidates are either inexperienced in campaigning or running from a "safe district."

[Scott Lee]

66. *double take!*

Is that YOU, blm?

[WiseMen]

79. I Agree. Media is Definitely Pushing Dean. Question is why.

[WiseMen]

25. Bush and the Media Have Picked our Candiate: Howard Dean

Do you think it is accidental that a candidate who was an unknown former Governor of a 600K people state 2 years ago has been given more publicity than any other candidate since the invention of television.

I DO NOT THINK IT ACCIDENTAL.

[bowens43]

35. Dean is the only logical choice.

Who else do we have?

BTW , Dean created the momentum and interest that has carried him this far, to try to spin it as some kind of republican/media conspiracy is just plain stupid.

[windansea]

49. Dear Santa from Karl

[HFishbine]

54. No, it's not accidental

But you fail to understand by thinking "given." We didn't wait for it to be given, we "got" it -- and that wasn't accidental.

[janx]

10. Rally the troops! Sound the bugle!

?

[Cheswick2.0]

13. It's not as easy to rally the troops now

less name recognition

[janx]

14. dammit, we'll do it anyway!

balls to the walls, boyz!

[Padraig18]

15. A pic of Teddy, from "Arsenic & Old Lace" just popped into my head.

*blows bugle, and runs up the steps!* :P

[janx]

16. God that was funny!!! I barely remember that, but

sure enough, it's still etched into my brain somehow!


That is NOTHING compared to what Clark can do though.

Rally the troops! Fire up the tanks! The war on terra has begun!

[Iverson]

17. this anti-Dean stuff is looking like a fetish

Look, I hate to burst any bubbles, but a post like this is just weird. How much of the radical right's assumptions does the Democratic Party have to assume before they finish anguishing over which centrist is the new messiah?

I give Kerry's supporters some credit for organization and trying to increase the volume, but the message is convoluted and has a whiff of desperation.

A major part of the Democratic Party's woes is this failure of both ideology and imagination. "Choosing victory" is a parody of a political direction, like being pro-good things and anti-bad. It is a logical consequence of embracing the radical right wing agenda (e.g.- preventive invasion), yet fully expecting every single anti-war voter to shut up and surrender the vote. It reveals a preference for technocratic differences because there is a fear or unwillingness to stand for what Democrats are supposed to stand for.

Nominate a centrist who has only technical objections to preventive invasion and lose. Speak out with a little courage, and you've got a chance. Here's another clue: if you have to tell your audience that the message is forceful, then it isn't.

Good luck.

[janx]

18. Pssst....

I was rather enjoying the parody...!

[RandomKoolzip]

20. That was a great post, Iverson.

Now THAT'S what makes DU great- stuff like this....

[Iverson]

21. many thanks ...

You know, I'm not a Dean supporter. I just want a little coherence.

Cheers.:toast:

[Capn Sunshine]

26. rock ON Iverson

to quote your icon
"just give me some truth"
:yourock:

[Padraig18]

27. Thank you, Iverson!

:hi:

[Iverson]

28. geez, all this good will feels weird

Ever wake up and think you're in a sci-fi fantasy movie? I think I like it, though.

:toast:

[Padraig18]

31. Hehe!

:toast:

[quaker bill]

48. Well stated

The post assumes that the formula for victory is choosing the right-wing agenda with a different style. The nuanced difference in policy is difficult to discern.

Instead of a large National Missle Defense System, lets have a small one.

Instead of a large budget deficit, let's have a somewhat smaller one.

Let's grow the military to more easily enforce our foriegn policy, but not quite as much as Bush* would.

Let's conduct a unwarranted pre-emptive war against a sovereign nation, but do it with more international support.

This is just the sort of vagueness in policy difference that gets lost during the General Election.

In 2000 Bush* ran with little resume. In 2004 he will be running as CIC with 4 years of difficult experience.

For illustration if Bush says he needs 270,000 soldiers and Kerry says you could do it with only 250,000 or actually needs 290,000 who is actually going to be able to tell definitively which plan is actually better. In this case most voters will go with the man with the experience, unfortunately, Bush*, as the incumbent, will be seen as that person. I don't like it, but it is a fact.

On the other hand, if you start with a very different policy perspective, like I don't believe pre-emptive war in the absence of a truly imminent theat, the vagueness disappears and the dialog shifts to a debate over which America we want to be seen as in the world.

The neo-con paradigm must be challenged at it's basis not simply touched up around the edges. The days of 'coercive diplomacy' must end and they will not end unless the foundation of neo-con ideas are challenged to their core.

[Capn Sunshine]

19. OK. Since no one READS anymore I'll post this again...

Howard Dean's own words on the subject--(highlights mine)
I support missile defense efforts that make us more secure; I oppose deployment of any system not yet proven to work. I favor active talks with North Korea, backed by the threat of force, rather than a stubborn refusal to engage that has allowed the situation to become more dangerous by the day. And the role I support for the National Guard is hardly "radical"; it was endorsed by the bipartisan Hart-Rudman commission and in fact is enshrined in our Constitution (Section 8, Clause 15).

Your well meaning article equates the Bush administration's foreign policy -- including its signature doctrine of "preemptive war" -- with the American foreign policy mainstream. In fact, the Bush agenda represents a radical departure from decades of bipartisan consensus on the appropriate use of U.S. power and our leadership in the world community.

HD: "From its derisive treatment of allies to its rejection of important global agreements, this administration has favored a go-it-alone approach and a determination to use force as its weapon of first resort. Its approach has alienated friends and bolstered foes. Its agenda isolates the United States, placing responsibility for all the world's problems in our hands, and runs counter to America's traditions as a republic.

By contrast, my national security policy reflects the best of our mainstream tradition. I believe the United States must exercise leadership by working with allies and partners to advance common interests, rather than advancing our power unilaterally.
My program is clear. First, we must strengthen our military and intelligence, ensure that our troops have the best training and equipment and keep our promises about pay and benefits.

Second, we must rebuild our alliances, badly damaged by the current administration. Every president since World War II, until now, has worked effectively with our allies and partners, because each believed this was the best way to safeguard security. Established alliances, which train and plan together over decades, are better at waging combat and building peace than makeshift coalitions of the willing.

Third, we must make our top priorities defeating the terrorists who have attacked America and preventing the most deadly weapons of all -- nuclear, chemical and biological -- from falling into their hands. We must bolster these priorities with improved Special Forces, better intelligence coordination and dramatically enhanced homeland security.

We need a global alliance to defeat terrorism that will draw on the strengths of allies and partners to destroy terrorist networks. And I will build, with our allies, a $60 billion global fund to combat weapons of mass destruction.

Fourth, advancing American interests requires greater engagement with developing nations on investment, trade, aid and public health.

This is a national security policy that honors the best of America's traditions. It is a clear contrast to a policy centered on the misguided doctrine of unilateral preemption.

The reasons I opposed the war in Iraq are clear. In the fall of 2002, Saddam Hussein did not pose an imminent threat to America.

The administration had not (and still has not) presented clear evidence that Hussein was on the verge of attacking his neighbors or threatening the United States or the Middle East with weapons of mass destruction or supporting al Qaeda. The administration's failures to mobilize allies and plan effectively for the war's aftermath suggested difficulties ahead.

It is just as important that this president failed to level with the American people about the costs or potential consequences or about the nature of the threat. Our democratic tradition, our mainstream values, demand that government be open and honest with its governed. The consequences of the war are becoming clear, even beyond the loss of life, even beyond the $150 billion price tag -- so far. Our resources -- military, intelligence, diplomatic -- are strained. Our alliances are frayed. Around the world, too many are now under the false impression that the American people are bent on global domination and war against Islam.

A critical presidential campaign is now underway. Americans face a choice between two very different views of our role in the world.

My agenda returns security policy to its fundamental course: protecting Americans and advancing our values and interests -- democracy, freedom, opportunity and peace -- through effective partnerships and global leadership, as well as military strength.

The current administration strays wildly from this course and from the time-honored manner of pursuing it. In the end, I believe it will be clear who is in the mainstream and who is swimming against the tide of history."

To make a wild leap such as you have done that suggests , based upon a poll that is specious at best, and imply that John Kerry might do something better is speculation. I have NO doubt of John Kerry's qualifications; what I object to is the presentation of them while simultaneously implying Howard Dean has no thoughts on the issue; this is disingenuous. We both know that by August of next year the Iraq quagmire will completely toxic. What a newspaper push poll suggests NOW is irrelevant.

You and Will Pitt should compare notes. ;)

[windansea]

22. compare evolving "positions" backed by zip

with 4 stars or 3 purple hearts....

[Capn Sunshine]

24. stars and hearts

are not relevant except to the starry-eyed. Obvously * needed none of this to get the backing of the rightest of the right wing.

How does being ex-military benefit anyone except defense contactors and the Carlyle Group?

[WiseMen]

29. I Guess You want ANOTHER President with NO Foreign Policy Experience.

After $1Trillion wasted we still haven't learned anything of the cost of a President with little experince of national governance and Zero foreign policy experience.

[bowens43]

37. You mean like Clinton?

You bet your ass we do. Your supposition that bush is a disaster because of lack of his experience is wrong. Bush is a disaster because he is an arrogant , war mongering fool. It has nothing to do with experience or lack there of.

And here's a news flash for you : NONE of the candidates has experience in the office of president!! Imagine that!

[Capn Sunshine]

40. Maybe he meant Carter

....only President many nations trust, to this day.

[windansea]

30. terror is a huge issue

people want to feel safe

trying to deny it is like swimming upriver

3 statements

I was Supreme commander of Nato

I won 3 purple hearts

I have a plan and some x-rays


PS bashing the military won't help

[Capn Sunshine]

39. How do you do that? Twin puters on your desktop?

awesome double team, wp.

I'll feel a hell of a lot safer once I know Bush and his fascist thugs are out of office.

People want to feel safe from sharks when they swim in the ocean too. Wearing a suit of armor is no way to surf.
FIVE STATEMENTS:

I was a republican once

I never questioned the evil my government committed when I could have

I polluted the landscape with cancer causing elements that will wreak havoc for generations

I was a flack for the military industrial war machine that eats our children

and one proverb:

To the general, all war appears necessary"

[windansea]

41. actually I have a 42 inch plasma

with split screen...LOL

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. Do you ever get your personalities confused...

Post the Kerry crap under the Clark personality or vice versa?

[windansea]

45. heh heh!

I use lots of ..... when I am Clark...or is that when I'm Kerry?

Seriously...I am flattered but confusing me with anyone else with the associated letter W is :tinfoilhat: territory


:)

[janx]

57. Sunansea...cloudsansea....saltansea....shellansea...

the possibilities are endless.

Let's just do it.

[windansea]

58. This is Windansea

http://www.windansea.org
http://www.sciencemeetsart.com/emese/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=albun07&page=1

enjoy!

[janx]

59. rockansea...algaeansea...FISHansea...boatansea...

sailboatansea...jebansea...barracudaansea...angelfishansea...sharkansea...rainansea...regulatoransea...BCDansea...jibansea...mainsailansea...saltansea...eelansea...lobsteransea...turtleansea...narcansea...thebendsansea...balesofdopeansea...seacucumberansea...maskansea...flippersansea...wetsuitansea...bostonwhaleransea...depthgaugeansea...seaweedansea...oysteransea...clamansea...STORMansea...snailansea...

Oh. The list goes on and on.

[windansea]

61. balesofdopeansea???

actually a couple of bales washed ashore couple of years ago

we had a nice bonfire :)

[janx]

71. They have a habit

of doing that sometimes. :smoke:

[Scott Lee]

64. LOL!!!! Sea&H Sugar.....Cuba, Sea!.....SprechenSea......

stop stop STOP LOL

[windansea]

68. thanks for the kick!

keep this thread and wiseman's words rockin...

:kick:

[Upfront]

36. All Your Boys Need To Do

Would be beat Dean, Good luck. lol

[windansea]

38. thanks

one of them will..or maybe they will tag team him...

hmmm Clark/Kerry...Kerry/Clark....

[oasis]

43. signal:If Dems dump Dean they reaffirm their national security commitment.

I think I'm getting the message.

[adadem]

47. This is pretty much

what Carville said on CF today. He seems pretty frustrated with the frontrunner.

[WiseMen]

51. Carville is Expressing the Firm Opinion of Experienced Analysts

Dean's huge national security vulnerabilities, his unpredictable campaign rhetoric and his abusive campaign still raises huge warning flags.

[janx]

52. Carville is doing nothing of the kind. He is acting.

He is paid to do so, and he has his own camp. To believe otherwise is to be naive.

[Sensitivity]

55. I though Jim Carville was an Dean advisor. Has he changed sides?

[windansea]

56. LOL n/t

[janx]

60. What evidence do you have that shows Carville as a Dean advisor?

I'd love to see it if you have it.

[windansea]

63. K Street n/t

[Sensitivity]

65. I think the LAUNCH of K-Street reality show was Carville advising Dean

[Sensitivity]

69. Did a Google. Many Links. Carville gave Dean his "Laugh Lines" for Debate

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0903/malone092303.asp



?K Street? will reinforce American cynicism


Watching Howard Dean on the premier of "K Street" pretend for the cameras to be a Democratic Presidential candidate (which he is in real life), pretend to learn debate techniques from James Carville (which he did in real life), and pretend to attack President Bush (which he does in real life), makes one wonder why a man who is campaigning to become President of the United States isn't busy enough, content enough or simply secure enough just to run his race in real life.

[Raya]

70. Carville and Begala Gave Dean the Best Answers of the Debate

I watch the show and while prepping Dean for an upcoming debate, James Carville gives Dean a joke about Trent Lott, which he uses later in the debate -- something like "If being from a state with racial diversity make one sensitive to race, that Trent Lott would be Martin Luther King."

It was in response to a question about how Vermont is all white and Dean campaign org. seemed to be all white. Things have changed since then.

[Scott Lee]

62. Anybody have the time?

I think I have to check the chicken in the oven.....

[in_cog_ni_to]

67. Maybe you would like to check

Dean's truck for a flat tire instead? Or maybe that flag needs to be adjusted a bit. That should keep you occupied for a while.

[windansea]

72. lol

could take all night to pump up one of those babies

[oasis]

74. "Rise up and choose victory" kick

[Raya]

77. What's this "Kick" thing. OK I am a novice.

[oasis]

78. A "kick" will boost an exceptional thread back to the top of the page.

This will get the item more exposure and discussion. In the old days DUers would just say "kick" on the subject line and then add a :kick: on the message line to kick a thread to the top.